Mass Effect 3: The Ending(s) [** Spoilers **]

super_furry

Kinda surprised that people still care this much about it now. I played through, was disappointed by the ending and moved on to be honest. I know with RPG's there's a real emotional investment - more so with games like Mass Effect which let your decision matter. But there's just so many other games to play through now that even when the updated ending is out, I won't bother with it outside of checking it out on youtube.

Gbear

hooradiation wrote: »

Firstly it had to be cut so the game could ship on time.
So you were never going to see it, if not for the advent of DLC. And before you start, no, I don't care how you feel about it, that's the reality of the situation.

They didn't have to have DLC sold at cost. It was a choice.
It doesn't particularly bother me - if I had a credit card I'd happily buy from Ashes right now. It's 8 quid for a cinema ticket for 90-180 minutes of entertainment - in that sense I'd call most games good value for money.

The customer is always right - they have the money and in that vein, time will tell whether ****ing up the ending, having day one DLC and bull****ting the fanbase will be worth it.

hooradiation wrote: »

Secondly, you claimed this was a "new direction" for bioware - let's assume, for the fun of it, you're right. What is new about companies wanting to make money?

No problem. They can do what they want. If they keep making games that are good, I'll possibly keep buying them.
There's a certain cut-off point with either value for money, quality of product or the friction experienced during their games (requiring origin is more friction then say, being able to install direct from a disc and play offline) where I won't want them anymore.

hooradiation wrote: »

Thirdly, please don't quote that insufferably awful video that was linked earlier, regurgitating other peoples terrible ideas won't get you anywhere.

Seeing as there is nothing productive in your third point I won't address it.

hooradiation

Gbear wrote: »

They didn't have to have DLC sold at cost. It was a choice.

I wonder how you've gone about determining what the "cost price" of a piece of DLC.

Gbear wrote: »

The customer is always right - they have the money and in that vein, time will tell whether ****ing up the ending, having day one DLC and bull****ting the fanbase will be worth it.

As these threads, and indeed this entire forum, have amply shown the customer is very rarely in the neighbourhood of being right.
"The customer is always convinced they're right" is closer to the mark.

Gbear wrote: »

No problem. They can do what they want. If they keep making games that are good, I'll possibly keep buying them.
There's a certain cut-off point with either value for money, quality of product or the friction experienced during their games (requiring origin is more friction then say, being able to install direct from a disc and play offline) where I won't want them anymore.

So, really, they owe you nothing, is what we're getting at here.

Jolt2007

gizmo wrote: »

I can only assume he's referring to the need to pay for an XBox Live sub in order to play online which in turn increases Galactic Readiness which allows for a higher EMS rating and therefore the full ending.

All of that ignores the fact that you can get a 4000+ EMS score without multiplayer. But hey, why let facts get in the way.

Unless you have the iOS apps, it's very impossible to get over around 3700 EMS without playing multiplayer. These guys have proved it beyond doubt and have been trying to get Bioware to acknowledge and correct it with little to no luck.

It's been a hell of a mess from so many angles. Personally I hate the ending, and people greater writers than I have picked apart why it's bad from many viewpoints. Meh, don't much care anymore about the ending itself but how it's being dissected, the effect it's having on certain fans and how Bioware is handling it is fascinating to me.

degrassinoel

super_furry wrote: »

Kinda surprised that people still care this much about it now. I played through, was disappointed by the ending and moved on to be honest. I know with RPG's there's a real emotional investment - more so with games like Mass Effect which let your decision matter. But there's just so many other games to play through now that even when the updated ending is out, I won't bother with it outside of checking it out on youtube.

I just want them to get rid of JarJar Binks Starchild tbh!

It's free dlc, so i'll play it anway. I've put enough time into the entire franchise to warrant seeing how they expand on what i considered to be a weak ending.

gizmo

Jolt2007 wrote: »

Unless you have the iOS apps, it's very impossible to get over around 3700 EMS without playing multiplayer. These guys have proved it beyond doubt and have been trying to get Bioware to acknowledge and correct it with little to no luck.

Ah, that would explain it so. I wasted most of my Saturday playing through MP to do it but two mates (who happen to be heavy iOS users) were laughing that they had gotten just over 4k without it.

Either way, poor show from Bioware in that case. Flicked through the thread there and lack of reasonable answers after 62 pages is rather telling.

Kiith

I don't mind that the multiplayer was tied in with the single player game, because the multiplayer was excellent. What annoyed me about that was that Bioware specifically said that you can get the 'best' ending without it, which if i'm not mistaken isn't true.

gizmo

Kiith wrote: »

I don't mind that the multiplayer was tied in with the single player game, because the multiplayer was excellent. What annoyed me about that was that Bioware specifically said that you can get the 'best' ending without it, which if i'm not mistaken isn't true.

Judging by the datamining that they've done on the game I think it's quite certainly not true alright which is extremely bad form after what they've said. That being said, I'm more peeved because I didn't like the multiplayer at all and did not like having to play it to get my EMS up to a decent level.

wyrn

Kiith wrote: »

I don't mind that the multiplayer was tied in with the single player game, because the multiplayer was excellent. What annoyed me about that was that Bioware specifically said that you can get the 'best' ending without it, which if i'm not mistaken isn't true.

I'm not a huge fan of MP but seeing that I cannot connect to a public game, it's pretty frickin annoying. I think I managed the 'best' ending without ever touching MP.

Azza

The one thing about multiplayer is that it causes Galatic Readiness to go up very fast. Like complete 1 game (around 15 minutes) and your readiness jumps like 10-15%. 2-3 matches onlines and you should have a high enough Galatic Readiness to go with your war assets should be enough to give you the best ending.

johnny_ultimate

Yeah a few hours in multiplayer got me up to 85 or 90% without much stress. I wanted to get a character up to level 20 / 100% readiness but at that point I was already getting a bit sick of the lack of variety, and the amount of grinding necessary between levels 18 and 19 was more than a little tedious. Enjoyed my time with it, but more as a brief diversion rather than a full on timesink.

Not sure if it's worth all the hassle just for a greenish tint and a hand popping through rubble, TBH. The 'true' ending is such a non-event it's barely worth bemoaning in the first place! 'Blue' ending was a better fit for my character anyway. Creating some sort of galaxy of robot / organic hybrids was a bit dystopian for my liking.

Zillah

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

The 'true' ending is such a non-event it's barely worth bemoaning in the first place! 'Blue' ending was a better fit for my character anyway. Creating some sort of galaxy of robot / organic hybrids was a bit dystopian for my liking.

Synthesis is actually considered the best solution, rubble-Shepard notwithstanding. It is implied it's kind of utopian - though I consider it kind of nightmarish...it's pretty horrific melding every person in the galaxy with technology against their will.

I, too, however, consider the ending such a non-event that I can't take it seriously. Like, my brain rejects the ending as I think to myself "Nope, no that's not the ending, that's just ridiculous". I saw a clip on youtube when it goes from conversation with Anderson to Crucible firing/Reapers beaten to credits - in my head that's a far more reasonable conclusion that has kind of stuck around.

johnny_ultimate

At least the ending gives you a choice, which is better than the lack of choice on display only moments before when you're forced into a renegade decision to shoot the Illusive Man. I actually got a game over because I didn't want to do it. I genuinely thought it was a funny little joke for a second. But no, all too real, especially when one has to sit through the whole conversation again.

Zillah

I dunno, choice and player-agency are important and all, but refusing to fight back against someone that is trying to kill you and your only ally doesn't seem like a legitimate position. You could make the same argument about any hostile encounter in the game, there are thousands of people that will kill you and end the game if you don't fight them. Just because this one happens to be in a cut-scene doesn't really change it. Anyway, you DO get to choose, you just don't like the consequences :pac:.

Unless this is an issue about never clicking when the red mouse flashes up, in which case you are highlighting a problem I have with regimented morality systems in games generally: You're encouraged to make decisions for arbitrary system reasons rather than character/story reasons.

Ian7

Zillah wrote: »

Synthesis is actually considered the best solution, rubble-Shepard notwithstanding. It is implied it's kind of utopian - though I consider it kind of nightmarish...it's pretty horrific melding every person in the galaxy with technology against their will.

I, too, however, consider the ending such a non-event that I can't take it seriously. Like, my brain rejects the ending as I think to myself "Nope, no that's not the ending, that's just ridiculous". I saw a clip on youtube when it goes from conversation with Anderson to Crucible firing/Reapers beaten to credits - in my head that's a far more reasonable conclusion that has kind of stuck around.

funnily enough i was just watching the ending comparison video on youtube there and saw that only on control good ending and destroy good ending do the soldiers on earth celebrate the victory but not for synthesis ending which maybe sugests that the choice we had worked so hard to unlock is not even a valid choice? This whole ending business really is a mess, I just can't figure it out. Also, considering that the citadel survives control and the soldiers on earth celebrate, this suggests somewhat that control is the correct option.

Oh Marauder Shields why didn't you warn us about the ending sooner??

degrassinoel

Ian7 wrote: »

Oh Maurader Shields why didn't you warn us about the ending sooner??

He tried so many times, on so many planets, but who's gottime to listen to anything other than the sweet sound of a black widow's clang and pop when you headshot him?

johnny_ultimate

Zillah wrote: »

I dunno, choice and player-agency are important and all, but refusing to fight back against someone that is trying to kill you and your only ally doesn't seem like a legitimate position. You could make the same argument about any hostile encounter in the game, there are thousands of people that will kill you and end the game if you don't fight them. Just because this one happens to be in a cut-scene doesn't really change it. Anyway, you DO get to choose, you just don't like the consequences :pac:.

Unless this is an issue about never clicking when the red mouse flashes up, in which case you are highlighting a problem I have with regimented morality systems in games generally: You're encouraged to make decisions for arbitrary system reasons rather than character/story reasons.

Don't get me started on morality choices in games! Even ignoring the fact that it's an amusingly basic simplification of 'choice': to remain consistent to my Shepards' unflinchingly honourable nature, there was little effort other than to press the upper right option in dialogue choices, except of course when the even more obvious 'blue' options were presented. Not that the morality was defined by subtlety in any case: the old 'honourable sacrifice vs racist bastard' conundrum wasn't exactly troubling at any point in this particular adventure (the ending of Fable 2 remains the only time I've ever genuinely been bothered by the potential consequences of a decision in a game, incidentally).

However, Bioware stuck by their simplistic red/blue divide throughout the three games, so it seemed bizarre to suddenly force the player into a renegade option in the home stretch. I have no objection with the action of Shepard shooting the Illusive Man (indeed, if the cutscene just had him shoot without my input I wouldn't have cared in the slightest): I have a problem with Bioware seemingly suggesting that there's another option or solution. For three games, the red / blue trigger events were optional, almost always with the alternate option available. But suddenly, for some reason, it's no longer optional, and more confusingly leads to a fail state if you do not comply. Suddenly, the game's long established rules no longer apply, and immersion is broken. The reason for breaking it, IMO, is unconvincing. Perhaps (and I'm particularly unconvinced by this argument) if it was some attempt at commenting on the illusion of choice in game... sorry Bioware, but Bioshock did that better.

It's a simple failure of mechanics: the developers not playing by their own rules. I no longer give two ****s about the ending of the game: happy to move on from these moderately diverting space operatics. But that one bizarre trigger prompt IMO was far more misguided than anything that followed a few minutes later.

Ian7

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

It's a simple failure of mechanics: the developers not playing by their own rules. I no longer give two ****s about the ending of the game: happy to move on from these moderately diverting space operatics. But that one bizarre trigger prompt IMO was far more misguided than anything that followed a few minutes later.

Was the trigger prompt a paragon symbol or conversation option?

In my ending, The illusive man shoots himself. My shepard had a high paragon and 4000+ EMS and I don't think i delayed in making any choices near the end. I was completely blindsided by the nonsense that was playing out in front of me so I may not have been paying full attention at the time. Does the option to shoot TIM yourself only appear at 5000+ EMS??

Ian7

Sorry if i am annoying people here but I still have so many question I want to ask about the ending and I know I should wait for the DLC but I just can't hold me whisht.

So another question I am posing is.... Why is it that the illusive man is wasting so much time trying to convince Shepard that the reapers are right? Why didn't he just shoot Shepard at the end and be done with it? He is clearly heavily indoctrinated and could carry out whatever wish the reapers wanted. Does this mean that Shepard is some kind of "chosen one" and the reapers wanted him alive?
Also, I'm sure this has been posed before but really, why on earth (excuse the pun) is the transport beam linked almost directly to the citadel controls? I think I would have been more impressed if the beam linked directly to a massive hall filled with bodies, collector type pods for the bodies, loads of keepers and maybe another proto-reaper in an early stage and the smaller corridor was linked off of this room.

I think I am running out of steam now trying to figure out the ending, luckily for you guys hahaha.

degrassinoel

all those questions and more are exactly why bioware have announced the extended cut free dlc.

Quite interesting though that this one game's ending (or lack of a properly explained one) has had such a dramatic effect on so many people.
That in itself is a pretty awesome achievment for a game.

hooradiation

degrassinoel wrote: »

all those questions and more are exactly why bioware have announced the extended cut free dlc.

And when they're done with dealing with everyone over thinking every aspect of the ME3 ending maybe they can deal with the Endor Holocaust.

johnny_ultimate

hooradiation wrote: »

And when they're done with dealing with everyone over thinking every aspect of the ME3 ending maybe they can deal with the Endor Holocaust.

George Lucas: a fine case study in how retrospectively 'changing' a completed work has wholly positive consequences!

hooradiation

I do like how people are asking Bioware to do what they profess to hate Lucas for doing.

People be crazy.

degrassinoel

..and opinions are like arseholes

luckyfrank

degrassinoel wrote: »

..and opinions are like arseholes

Some are dirtier than others ?

noodler

I just finished it.

I was disappointed - veyr much so.

I then watched the 20 minute Shephard Indoctrination video and feel like an absolute idiot for not getting it sooner.

I have done a major flip-flop on the issue - I think it was very well done now that I weigh up the evidence.

Viral Vector

noodler wrote: »

I just finished it.

I was disappointed - veyr much so.

I then watched the 20 minute Shephard Indoctrination video and feel like an absolute idiot for not getting it sooner.

I have done a major flip-flop on the issue - I think it was very well done now that I weigh up the evidence.

I'm waiting for the Extended Edition to drop so I can buy the game, I have a bad feeling though and that it won't explain much! The Indoctrination Theory makes more sense than space magic and an invisible starchild!

A very disappointing way to finish a fantastic series! I was highly critical of the Gears of War 3 campaign but this just takes the biscuit!

Zillah

noodler wrote: »

feel like an absolute idiot for not getting it sooner

Let's see how you feel once they released the next DLC which is adding new cutscenes to clarify what happens in each of the endings (hint: The indoctrination theory is nonsense. It would be really nice if Bioware were devious masterminds that have woven an elaborate secret web through the trilogy, but the fact is they screwed up, ran out of time and threw together a terrible ending that made little sense and didn't do the series justice. Sorry.)

Ian7

Viral Vector wrote: »

I'm waiting for the Extended Edition to drop so I can buy the game, I have a bad feeling though and that it won't explain much! The Indoctrination Theory makes more sense than space magic and an invisible starchild!

Over on the Bioware forum, people now refer to the "Space Brat" as Bieber........Fitting.

Also spotted this little quote on that forum regarding the ending which I think is quite apt....

"To put it simply, you eat cookies made from your own recipe and I will kill you so you don't die from eating the cookies. Furthermore, if you eat the cookies I left laying around for no real reason, I will kill you so you don't die from eating the cookies. And, you have no choice in the matter because ultimately you will eat the cookies."

Ian7

Zillah wrote: »

Let's see how you feel once they released the next DLC which is adding new cutscenes to clarify what happens in each of the endings (hint: The indoctrination theory is nonsense. It would be really nice if Bioware were devious masterminds that have woven an elaborate secret web through the trilogy, but the fact is they screwed up, ran out of time and threw together a terrible ending that made little sense and didn't do the series justice. Sorry.)

Lets see how YOU feel once Bioware announce that the IT is the truth!!! hahah, . Only messin, most of us understand that the IT is merely speculation at this point. I for one, won't be disappointed if it doesn't turn out to be true, provided the DLC actually answers some bloody questions.

By the way, "elaborate secret web"? The indoctrination theory is built on the common theme of indoctrination throughout the whole series. There's no secret in that. Suggesting that Shepard is somehow immune to indoctrination is more nonsensical than us suggesting that he is indoctrinated. He has had more exposure to the reapers than all of the husks in the game put together remember.:pac: