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Mass Effect 3: The Ending(s) [** Spoilers **]

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  • 11-03-2012 8:41pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 4,130 ✭✭✭


    Mod Warning

    This thread contains spoilers about the ending of Mass Effect 3. Continue reading at your own peril....


    I really think people are focusing too much on getting a 'perfect' ending. It's a role playing game! Play Shephard as you would like your character to be not always worrying about what cut scene you're going to have at the end. The beauty of this game ultimately has been that you will have an experience all the way through that reflects your personality as you played (whether what was really yours or one you decided to be). Don't get pissed off that you made X decision in ME1/2 that led to Y dying, or not helping you etc. just live with it and move on knowing that the universe you are in now actually does a great job of reflecting everything you have done so far. It's yours :), I don't know of any other RPG that has taken this aspect so far, the fact that it's stressing so many people out is testament to this. Basically you can't get it wrong, you can have different outcomes but they will reflect your in game persona from all 3 amazingly well.


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 29,554 ✭✭✭✭Zero-Cool


    Jaysus, there is an online petition to change the ending. I'm only 12 hours in and have no intention of finishing it anytime soon but a lot of people complaining about it. Maybe a new thread should be started to talk about spoilers and the ending like was suggested already?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 903 ✭✭✭Herrick


    sheehy83 wrote: »
    Jaysus, there is an online petition to change the ending. I'm only 12 hours in and have no intention of finishing it anytime soon but a lot of people complaining about it. Maybe a new thread should be started to talk about spoilers and the ending like was suggested already?

    I haven't played ME3 yet, but have put so much into 1 and 2.

    I can honestly say this series has been my most enjoyable gaming experience to date and will probably never be topped.

    For me, this series has played more like a hybrid of a brilliant book and film. It didn't even feel like a game. The stories and plot-lines (even side missions) actually made me grow attached to certain characters and their fates.
    But from what I've read about the endings to ME3, has made my stomach sick.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    _CreeD_ wrote: »
    I really think people are focusing too much on getting a 'perfect' ending. It's a role playing game! Play Shephard as you would like your character to be not always worrying about what cut scene you're going to have at the end. The beauty of this game ultimately has been that you will have an experience all the way through that reflects your personality as you played (whether what was really yours or one you decided to be). Don't get pissed off that you made X decision in ME1/2 that led to Y dying, or not helping you etc. just live with it and move on knowing that the universe you are in now actually does a great job of reflecting everything you have done so far. It's yours :), I don't know of any other RPG that has taken this aspect so far, the fact that it's stressing so many people out is testament to this. Basically you can't get it wrong, you can have different outcomes but they will reflect your in game persona from all 3 amazingly well.


    This is all well and good, but the ending in 3 is so nonsensical and clashes so much with the tone and theme of the rest of the series that is genuinely spoils the whole experience a bit. I'm going to hazard a guess that you haven't finished it yet. It "does a great job of reflecting everything you have done so far" is exactly what is so great about the Mass Effect series, and what is so horribly wrong with the ending.

    Regarding the value of playing this one without the others...you can play it, and can get a summary of the events of the last two games online to make sense of it all, but really you should carry one character all the way through for the best experience. Other characters follow you along for the entire trilogy and you see them develop and grow and some times they die, and it all means so much more because they've been with you so long. You can play 3 without playing 1 and 2, but you shouldn't, it would be a big waste.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 903 ✭✭✭Herrick


    Herrick wrote: »
    I haven't played ME3 yet, but have put so much into 1 and 2.

    I can honestly say this series has been my most enjoyable gaming experience to date and will probably never be topped.

    For me, this series has played more like a hybrid of a brilliant book and film. It didn't even feel like a game. The stories and plot-lines (even side missions) actually made me grow attached to certain characters and their fates.
    But from what I've read about the endings to ME3, has made my stomach sick.
    Now that I think about it, I'm totally convinced the ending was set up like this, to allow EA to release a ton of DLC to get "proper" endings. When you think about it, most fans probaly will buy it after all the time they have invested over all three games.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,785 ✭✭✭ferike1


    Ending reminded me of Asimov's Foundation and the Earth


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,130 ✭✭✭_CreeD_


    Zillah wrote: »
    This is all well and good, but the ending in 3 is so nonsensical and clashes so much with the tone and theme of the rest of the series that is genuinely spoils the whole experience a bit. I'm going to hazard a guess that you haven't finished it yet. It "does a great job of reflecting everything you have done so far" is exactly what is so great about the Mass Effect series, and what is so horribly wrong with the ending.

    Regarding the value of playing this one without the others...you can play it, and can get a summary of the events of the last two games online to make sense of it all, but really you should carry one character all the way through for the best experience. Other characters follow you along for the entire trilogy and you see them develop and grow and some times they die, and it all means so much more because they've been with you so long. You can play 3 without playing 1 and 2, but you shouldn't, it would be a big waste.

    And that guess would be wrong, I finished it last night and felt it was very fitting. I disagree on the tone of the ending being bad, it's unexpected yes but not outside the overall tone of the game or of your character.
    In fact I liked the fact that this one thing is you and you alone, it's like the universe goes quiet for a moment. Your ultimate choices all lead to an end to the reaper threat, the options of course are all for what you want a hypothetical future to be...it (or your survival) has absolutely no impact from then on, it's like you get a chance to write your epitaph (and has some have put it, your legend). What were you expecting, flags waving, ships clashing, you walking out with trumpets blaring for medals and tea? Kinda cliched don't ya think?
    .


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,892 ✭✭✭bizmark


    i really dont know wtf the ending was about because seriously i feel cheated


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,822 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Completed ME 3 yesterday and it's probably the best game I'll play all year. Simply outstanding.

    I have a massive problem with the endings though. Bioware spent 3 games developing a galactic civilization between different species. We were introduced to so many different species. Through the codex we could learn about different cultures and societies too.

    They also spent 3 games developing the characters in your crew. Their likes/dislilkes, personal relationships between Shepard and the crew. So it's no wonder I have a problem with the endings that basically invalidate 3 games worth of character development/world building.
    I won't talk about Space Jesus Shepard as thats just too silly. In ME 3 all the Mass Relays are destroyed and every species are isolated from each other. Congrats Bioware, you've just destroyed the galactic economy. Those characters you've met on the Normandy over the last 3 games? You'll never see them again either thanks to this games ending. We had to save the Quarian homeworld in ME 3. This is actually a storyline continued throughout all 3 games. It is rendered meaningless as the mass relays are now destroyed and the Quarians can't get home. With all 3 endings, choice is taken away from the player. Billions die, species are left stranded on Earth with no hope of return and the Normandy has crashed on a jungle planet. Everything you've done over the course of the 3 games is invalidated.It is truly horrific writing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,785 ✭✭✭ferike1


    bizmark wrote: »
    i really dont know wtf the ending was about because seriously i feel cheated

    :D Like I said, read Asimov's foundation series. Ending is pretty damn similar to that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 55,470 ✭✭✭✭Mr E


    Discussion about the endings has been split away from the main thread.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,556 ✭✭✭✭Sir Digby Chicken Caesar


    now i haven't played me3 as after me2 I've next to no interest in the gameplay, but I kinda like the ending

    leaving aside for a second any plotholes or "it just doesn't make sense"
    I quite like the end of galactic civilisation angle. it's the god damn reapers for god damns sake, you don't take them on and "win" in any honest sense of the word the only thing you can do is lose as best you can. Any kind of happy ending where the alliance is saved, kittens stay kittens forever and everybody gets their own pet asian schoolgirl just wouldn't have made sense and would have been an unbelievable cop out to the masturbatory wants of the fans.
    Yes the galactic economy has disintegrated, galactic civilisation has crumbled and possibly entire civilisations will perish as they fail to adapt but life (literally) goes on for billions more, billions the reapers would have wiped out. Everyone is now roughly where they would have been if the reapers had won, cut off from each other.. no mass relays so no long range space travel but the crucial point is the reapers are gone.. this time when everybody rebuilds (however long it takes) there won't be any reaper threat waiting to break them down again, they're finally free to explore how far they can go as species without having the clock reset every couple of milliena (or however long it was).
    That's a good thing and it was worth fighting for.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,785 ✭✭✭ferike1


    I don't mind the choices but the fact there is little discussion of the repercussions of your choices up to then is a bit of a let down. As for the Asimov angle, anyone agree/disagree?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,556 ✭✭✭✭Sir Digby Chicken Caesar


    dunno about asimov but someone was giving out to me yesterday that it was a rip off of the stargate sg1 ori ending, and the dakaara device


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,735 ✭✭✭✭degrassinoel


    Is it sad that a game could make me feel such an incredible range of emotions?
    I was near tears in every dream sequence, and the game pushed me past that at the end. Not ashamed to say it, I think the synthesis ending was fking brilliant, though i am absoluetly gutted about a lot of the decisions i had to make, especially the last one.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,785 ✭✭✭ferike1


    It was foundation's edge sorry. The main character has to make a choice between technology, galactic symbiosis and something else (kind of hard to explain without reading the books)


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,271 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    ferike1 wrote: »
    It was foundation's edge sorry. The main character has to make a choice between technology, galactic symbiosis and something else (kind of hard to explain without reading the books)
    The person has been guided to a time when there's three choices (below is spoiler of the choice in the book):
    1) Stick to the original foundation plan - The plan is overlooked by the second foundation on Terminus that never left; they are experts in Math etc. and can ensure that the variation is minimized and the foundation plan is stuck to and maintained to build the second galatical empire with in 1000 years. They would then become the new elite once the new Empire was created.

    2) Have the foundation break free - Instead of sticking to the master plan the foundation worlds would go off and create their own future for good or bad as a new small empire like the once they have taken over in the previous hundreds of years. This is done as the foundation realize that there is a second foundation and were it is located and don't want to be manipulated any more.

    3) Gaia option - All people, plants, worlds etc. become part of one single uni mind. All people, items and worlds are interconnected; the individuality is greatly removed as all can think/locate memories of others etc.

    This was setup by the robots that created this future for humans to decide which future they want by pushing the foundation to overreach early when things hanged in balance.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    We can stop with the spoiler tags now, right? The whole thread is a spoiler.

    ]you don't take them on and "win" in any honest sense of the word the only thing you can do is lose as best you can. Any kind of happy ending where the alliance is saved, kittens stay kittens forever and everybody gets their own pet asian schoolgirl just wouldn't have made sense and would have been an unbelievable cop out to the masturbatory wants of the fans.

    Why? Because you say so? Shepard spends the entire trilogy being told he can't do things and then he does them anyway, he spends the entire series telling people that the reapers are coming and that we're gonna work together to stop them. It is not an unreasonable expectation that we'd work together and stop the reapers without destroying galactic civilisation. Believe it or not but a large percentage of players would find an ending where Shepard wasn't dead or permanently cut-off from all his friends to be perfectly reasonable and satisfying.

    That said, I wouldn't mind a dark ending if it made sense or didn't come across and sheer stupidity and bad writing.

    I'm really enjoying the multiplayer though. I feel like I shouldn't, because those resources could have gone into making an ending that made sense. Grr.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,130 ✭✭✭_CreeD_


    I think something is being missed here in regards to the Mass Relays being destroyed. In ME1 Sovereign states quite clearly that they created the Mass Relays (and the Citadel) to make sure that all life would develop in a predictable way as part of the Cycle - Relays would be found, civilisations would use them to expand, meet and find the Citadel etc. The Citadel itself would be maintained by the keepers. All of this was designed to hand the universe to the emerging races on a plate, so that they wouldn't question or develop their own means of long range travel and also would come to rely on a system that was ultimately under Reaper control. Destroying the relays was an important part of destroying the cycle, the Catalyst was removing what it saw as a major part of their influence in the cycle of development and destruction. Would it have been easier to accept and ending with it not doing so, sure. But if we are too look at it from the point of view of a synthetic unemotional intelligence it was part of essentially deleting itself from the universe and truly letting the current races look after themselves from now on.

    Now we also know that the Protheans had just about unlocked Mass Relay tech (the conduit to the Citadel from ME1) so we know it's in the cards for the current races to develop on their own.

    So the way I interpret the ending It's not the end of Galactic civilisation, just a pause.

    Edit:
    Also, since this has been mentioned a number of times, Shep was not cut off from all of his companions...they were (mostly) there on earth. And since the Normandy wasn't using a relay, just std. FTL, to escape the blastwave they're still within remaining travel distance (and from the timeline just a few minutes away).


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,984 ✭✭✭Venom


    Zillah wrote: »
    We can stop with the spoiler tags now, right? The whole thread is a spoiler.




    Why? Because you say so? Shepard spends the entire trilogy being told he can't do things and then he does them anyway, he spends the entire series telling people that the reapers are coming and that we're gonna work together to stop them. It is not an unreasonable expectation that we'd work together and stop the reapers without destroying galactic civilisation. Believe it or not but a large percentage of players would find an ending where Shepard wasn't dead or permanently cut-off from all his friends to be perfectly reasonable and satisfying.

    That said, I wouldn't mind a dark ending if it made sense or didn't come across and sheer stupidity and bad writing.

    I'm really enjoying the multiplayer though. I feel like I shouldn't, because those resources could have gone into making an ending that made sense. Grr.


    I don't think its even a case of Sheppard dying if such an event was handled right like the fates of some of the game characters but more the fact of the stupid
    Reaper controlling kid/entity
    that's introduced out of ****ing nowhere in the last 10 minutes of the game :(

    The whole
    "were destroying you to prevent you making stupid decisions that will destroy you"
    is just a pathetic piece of story telling and when some of the writers involved in the game go out of there way with tweets stating they hand no part in the ending you know there is a problem in Bioware or to be honest EA.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,785 ✭✭✭ferike1


    Nice to see someone else has read the foundation books. It was years ago to be fair for me!
    Shame that the choices we made up to then were sort of arbitrary.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,892 ✭✭✭bizmark


    ferike1 wrote: »
    :D Like I said, read Asimov's foundation series. Ending is pretty damn similar to that.

    I wasn't play asimovs foundation 3 though i was playing mass effect 3 a game i put 30 hours into and a combined maybe 120 over the last few years and there's no other way to say it this ending is a massive kick in the balls. Every thing you fight for is gone every one you know is gone im fairly sure tali and garrus were killed off screen by a ****ing reaper which pissed me off it boiled down to "glactic butt plug guys stick it in to the citidal anus it will do something!" which was wakeing up child god to tell us all ai based life forms will wipe out organic based life forms even though theres a AI standing right there with me the bloody geth are outside fighting on our side the only ai based life killing organics is the one child god unleased all this could of been solved if he looked out the fecking window and had a moment of self reflection .

    The whole ai vrs organic premise of the ending is bizarre during the game its the ai/synthetic life which came across as the most likable EDI is by far the most interesting character shes funny shows no hint of anything but wanting to help shes as human as any of the other people on the ship even being in love with joker in the end which the humans had no issue with this relationship either.
    Then theres legion who i was oddly proud of for his sacrifice of the 3 deaths in the game his is the only one that ment anything his story and that of the geth was the only story in the game i was invested in so much that after seeing how they were treated and how they were still being viewed i seriously considered letting them wipe out the quarians but in the end the geth decided to work together with their "creators" rather than hold it against them theres nothing in the whole side story of the geth that shows them as future murder bots which diminished the end even more.

    On top of that the reapers were just used wrong its not scary to see 2 km tall insect starships walk around in the back when theres 7000 of them its much much better to have 1 or 2 run around with their intimidating voices seeming invincible they didnt even talk to us once in the whole game all they do is blare a horn was no harbinger to tell us we are doomed no nothing i dont understand this oversight.

    in the end it feels like the equiv of watching say star trek and the end episode is every federation ship warp drives randomly popping off and explodeing picard/who ever jumping into a god machine and dieing because v0v why not all civilization ceseing to exist the decisions you seen for the last 120 episodes not just no longer mattering but never really mattering at all as the ending takes into account nothing that happened and we are ment to feel better about it because "well guys the borg arent here now so i guess thats ok right!"

    Bleh i feel so cheated on this ending damages my whole over arching opinion of the series


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,130 ✭✭✭_CreeD_


    bizmark wrote: »
    .....

    in the end it feels like the equiv of watching say star trek and the end episode is every federation ship warp drives randomly popping off and explodeing picard/who ever jumping into a god machine and dieing because v0v why not all civilization ceseing to exist all decisions you seen for the last 120 episodes not just no longer mattering but never really mattering at all because the ending takes into account nothing that happened and we are ment to feel better about it because "well guys the borg arent here now so i guess thats ok right!"

    Bleh i feel so cheated on this ending damages my whole over arching opinion of the series

    Calm down...breathe....recover coherence :) I think there are some decent points in there, still deciphering.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,324 ✭✭✭chrislad


    While I don't have any massive issues with the ending (and truth be told, there really is nothing to prevent Shepard from being alive, even with the synthesis ending), I have more of an issue with the lack of closure.

    Garrus, Liara, Tali - just f'ed off somewhere? Seriously? No closure on them or with Wrex, Grunt or any characters other than EDI, Joker and Ashley (who is a sore point, as I spurned 3 advances (Liara, English Chick and Reporter) to stick with her from ME1 and all I got was a hangover scene with her!)

    What is bugging me is the last image from the game, and I quote....
    Commander Shepard has become a legend by ending the Reaper threat. Now you can continue to build that legend through further gameplay and downloadable content

    Unless it's free, and I barely got 23 hours of the game compared to ME1 and ME2 and I did everything, I will not be impressed. I'll probably buy it, but I won't be happy about it! :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    _CreeD_ wrote: »
    I think something is being missed here in regards to the Mass Relays being destroyed. In ME1 Sovereign states quite clearly that they created the Mass Relays (and the Citadel) to make sure that all life would develop in a predictable way as part of the Cycle - Relays would be found, civilisations would use them to expand, meet and find the Citadel etc. The Citadel itself would be maintained by the keepers. All of this was designed to hand the universe to the emerging races on a plate, so that they wouldn't question or develop their own means of long range travel and also would come to rely on a system that was ultimately under Reaper control. Destroying the relays was an important part of destroying the cycle, the Catalyst was removing what it saw as a major part of their influence in the cycle of development and destruction. Would it have been easier to accept and ending with it not doing so, sure. But if we are too look at it from the point of view of a synthetic unemotional intelligence it was part of essentially deleting itself from the universe and truly letting the current races look after themselves from now on.

    Now we also know that the Protheans had just about unlocked Mass Relay tech (the conduit to the Citadel from ME1) so we know it's in the cards for the current races to develop on their own.

    So the way I interpret the ending It's not the end of Galactic civilisation, just a pause.

    These are all nice in-game ways that could manage to rationalise some of the events at the end of the story. It doesn't change the fact that 98% of players thought the ending was terrible and should have been different.

    Anyway, with the reapers either dead, merged or controlled there is no cycle any more, so leaving the relays in place doesn't matter.
    Also, since this has been mentioned a number of times, Shep was not cut off from all of his companions...they were (mostly) there on earth. And since the Normandy wasn't using a relay, just std. FTL, to escape the blastwave they're still within remaining travel distance (and from the timeline just a few minutes away).

    They land on a jungle planet that is not Earth, which mean they reached another solar system, which means they used a relay. The ambiguity of why the hell the normandy was making a relay jump, how your party got on board and where the hell they ended up is just another item in the list of stupid things at the end of Mass Effect 3.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,892 ✭✭✭bizmark


    _CreeD_ wrote: »
    Calm down...breathe....recover coherence :) I think there are some decent points in there, still deciphering.

    I tryed to clean it up but im not the most naturaly coherent guy in the world :p


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,920 ✭✭✭AnCapaillMor


    Venom wrote: »
    I don't think its even a case of Sheppard dying if such an event was handled right like the fates of some of the game characters but more the fact of the stupid
    Reaper controlling kid/entity
    that's introduced out of ****ing nowhere in the last 10 minutes of the game :(

    The DLC dude mentions
    something being before and behind the reapers and nothing more was said on it[\spoilers]

    Loved the game, there seemed to be more main story related missions than the others. however the end pissed me off.
    Yeah didn't like the end, at the end i thought i was finishing infamous 2 again. Really liked the rest of the game but the end just pissed me off.

    The tali thing pissed me off too, after 2 i was hoping they'd get back their homeworld which they did and we'd finally see a maskless quarian, the picture was a copout, it felt like an after thought. Alright here's the finished product, then some nervous guy puts up his hand mentioning tali, they fire him and then try and find the cheapest and most halfass way to sort it out


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,369 ✭✭✭LostBoy101


    The most weirdest ending to a great game as
    it doesn't matter what you choose they both blow up reapers and ****
    but I really enjoyed the series and if Bioware ever release something like this again I will definitely buy it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,130 ✭✭✭_CreeD_


    Zillah wrote: »
    T
    They land on a jungle planet that is not Earth, which mean they reached another solar system, which means they used a relay. The ambiguity of why the hell the normandy was making a relay jump, how your party got on board and where the hell they ended up is just another item in the list of stupid things at the end of Mass Effect 3.

    Actually, Nope. Relays are between large areas, clusters not between solar systems. It's all over the game, you use a relay to get to X cluster and then FTL between solar systems within that cluster. They simply crashed on another planet in another solar system of the Local cluster.
    This is getting pedantic now, and I'm not trying to use it to undermine your other points but it backs up my point that a lot of the angst over the endings is down to ignoring some aspects of the gaming universe (rather than outright hating the intended concept).


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,303 ✭✭✭Temptamperu


    It gave an end to all the stories I had built up over the last few years and did it very well, for me anyway. I cant see how else it could of going but it tied everything up nicely again for me.
    I cured the Genophage, I killed all the quarians (by accident - Tali commited suicide) but in fairness they where the ones who started the war I united everyone and then sacrificed myself so no-one would need to be wiped out ever again.
    Sure the relays are gone but theres a planet with a human an asari and an AI so hey maybe start a new world where people work together instead of it all being about who has the biggest vioce or army.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 903 ✭✭✭Herrick


    Rumor doing the rounds that the "endings" may in fact be Shepard under indoctrination :eek:

    Just a theory from the Bioware forums but would be very interesting if true.


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