ULSU UGM 2012 (rescheduled for Tuesday, Week 10 at 7pm, location TBC)

wnolan1992

***EDIT: Changed motion Re Irish to reflect typo, I'm taking the posters how pointed this out at their word.***

Date: Monday 12th March 2012
Time: 2:30pm
Where: The Stables
Quorum: 200

AGENDA

1. Apologies
2. Minutes of Previous Meetings
3. Matters Arising
4. Officers Report
   - Questions for Officers
5. Review of Sabbatical Officers Wages
6. Motions and Resolutions
   - Ratification of ULSU Audited Accounts for the year ended 30th September 2011.
   - Ratification of Auditor:-Pat Carroll & Co.
   - Motion on Retaining Services of Communications Officer
   - Motion to Reduce Quorum of a General Meeting to 100
   - Motion to Recognise Irish as an Official Language of the Union
   - Motion to Reduce wages of Sabbatical Officers by €1/hour
   - Motion to Reduce wages of Sabbatical Officers during Handover/Training
   - Motion re additonal articles for draft constituion
   - Motion re Sabbats to wear silly hats.
7. Items For Discussion
   - New Student Centre
8. AOB

Jester252

Where can we get the wording for the motions

J_E

Do they purposefully pick awkward times for these meetings? Just never seem to be free for them...

wnolan1992

Jester252 wrote: »

Where can we get the wording for the motions

I assume the SU, but I don't know for sure. I just copied out the Agenda here to get some discussion going.

Cydoniac wrote: »

Do they purposefully pick awkward times for these meetings? Just never seem to be free for them...

Yeah, this is an awkward one alright, don't get why they don't have it on Wednesday afternoon like the EGM. Granted it won't suit everyone, but Wednesday's are generally pretty free for most people.

Jester252

The Stables Why? Are they trying to get student in with free drink ala the AGM
Motion re additonal articles for draft constituion.
What is this are there articles to be added? Or what is need to be put forward as an article.
Motion on Retaining Services of Communications Officer. Is that to bring back the position or just to make sure an focal and ulfm safe?
The irish one will past no bother but does that mean that every email we get will have to be in irish as well?
100 seams to be a big drop IMO.

wnolan1992

I'd like to see the one on Irish pass.

The one on the Comms Officer is unclear from the agenda. When I read it I thought it meant bringing back the sabbat position, but now that you've said it Jester it makes more sense for it to mean keeping An Focal and ULFM safe.

I'd be in favour of reducing wages during handover week, and wary about doing the €1/hour cut.

And whoever put that shíte about silly hats on the agenda would want a serious kick in the hole.


The Stables also seems like an utterly stupid place to hold it. Surely they could have got Jean Monnet or something again. It's going to be stupid unless the Stables have agreed to close the place for 3 hours during their peak dinner time business hours.

johnryano

Date: Monday 12th March 2012
Time: 2:30pm
Where: The Stables
[/QUOTE]

really? in a pub?

Quorum: 200

AGENDA

1. Apologies
2. Minutes of Previous Meetings
3. Matters Arising
4. Officers Report
   - Questions for Officers
5. Review of Sabbatical Officers Wages
6. Motions and Resolutions
   - Ratification of ULSU Audited Accounts for the year ended 30th September 2011.
   - Ratification of Auditor:-Pat Carroll & Co.
   - Motion on Retaining Services of Communications Officer
   - Motion to Reduce Quorum of a General Meeting to 100

   wow, sign of a times

   - Motion to Recognise Irish as the Official Language of the Union

   seriously? seriously? can we even assume 10% of the union can speak irish fluently? no to this one 100%

   - Motion to Reduce wages of Sabbatical Officers by €1/hour

   sabbatical wage should be minimum wage and working week 36 hours

   - Motion to Reduce wages of Sabbatical Officers during Handover/Training
   - Motion re additonal articles for draft constituion
   - Motion re Sabbats to wear silly hats.

   they're ridiculous enough

7. Items For Discussion
   - New Student Centre

   how about free drink, free drugs, and a cure to cancer?

8. AOB

OhMSGlive

Silly hats. Seriously? Sounds like something Sid would say.

Bored Accountant

Jester252 wrote: »

The Stables Why?

How are they expecting to keep people in the courtyard so ensure quorum remains high enough?

The irish one will past no bother but does that mean that every email we get will have to be in irish as well?

Will that mean the whole constitution & every document needs to be translated?
Where is the money to pay for that to be done going to come from? Probably not the best time to be making a major change like that?

Jester252

Would also like to point out less than a week

johnryano

Jester252 wrote: »

Would also like to point out lest then a week

less than?

jesus at least correct both mistakes.

J_E

Odd that its in Stables. Not exactly a formal environment?

Jester252

johnryano wrote: »

Jester252 wrote: »

Would also like to point out lest then a week

less than?

Stupid touchscreen :pac:

Bored Accountant

If one outcome is decided under motion 5: Review of Sabbatical Officers Wages
will that make the other motion to reduce sabbats wages by €1 useless.

I don't think that sabbats wages should be reduced by a €1. They do an awful lot of work, and from my own experience, it isn't easy to live on minimum wage always waiting for the next paycheck.
I think would be fairer to possibly reduce it by 50 cent so that savings can be made for the SU and that the sabbats can still afford to live.
Obviously they all say they don't take the job for the money, but they still have to live.

johnryano

Bored Accountant wrote: »

If one outcome is decided under motion 5: Review of Sabbatical Officers Wages
will that make the other motion to reduce sabbats wages by €1 useless.

I don't think that sabbats wages should be reduced by a €1. They do an awful lot of work, and from my own experience, it isn't easy to live on minimum wage always waiting for the next paycheck.
I think would be fairer to possibly reduce it by 50 cent so that savings can be made for the SU and that the sabbats can still afford to live.
Obviously they all say they don't take the job for the money, but they still have to live.

minimum wage is fine for someone with no qualification and no work experience. they have no children or dependents. if you think minimum wage is too little to survive on contact your local TD and address that issue.

minimum wage is plenty for a glorified student.

Jester252

I agree with you IMO the sabbats pay is to keep them

Jester252

johnryano wrote: »

less than?

jesus at least correct both mistakes.

Happy now
FYI correct your Quotes

johnryano

thanks

freyners

irish one is one id liked to see passed, in the future, when we actually have the money to absorb such a cost. who put forward the comms office one?

silly hats one. would that actually be binding if it passed

johnryano

ARe you serious? For what reason would you like to see Irish become offical langauge of the union? Are there any other than sentimental fenian reasons?

Nobody speaks irish except for 10%
nobody who speaks irish cannot speak english
english is the language of this university and the international language of eduation (putting aside mathematics)
this is a waste of time.
if this is passed I will request every single document published by the su be translated into irish, i will conduct all conversation with the su in irish and i will speak in council meetings only in irish.

when they run out of paper and money and grow a bloody brain they'll remove this silly sentimental motion.

freyners

Nobody speaks irish except for 10%

no-one except 10%, good start with the immediate contradiction

nobody who speaks irish cannot speak english

so, lets encourage a few who can speak english but not irish to learn, having more than one language is beneficial

english is the language of this university and the international language of eduation (putting aside mathematics)

again so what, no one is suggesting we become an irish only university, more to have irish and english have the same footing a la the consitution

this is a waste of time.

at the moment yes, in the future no

if this is passed I will request every single document published by the su be translated into irish, i will conduct all conversation with the su in irish and i will speak in council meetings only in irish.

i seriously doubt that, again its more about having the languages on the same footing

johnryano

It is not the role, purpose or remit of the UL to deal with the decline of the Irish langauge. Implementing Irish as the FIRST LANGUAGE of the SU when NONE of the current SU officers are fluent in the language (maybe the next few will be) is completely ridiculous and the sort of farcial poltics you'd expect from a third world african country not here.

The fact that on one hand we want to reduce SU wages by a euro per hour and then introduce a new language into the su on the other shows how bloody naive and stupid the people in this college are. nobody has any sense.

Jester252

freyners wrote: »

I agree that a second language is good to have but Irish.
If it is any cost to the union to put it in place then no. The money can be used for better things. I find it slightly annoying that Irish is pushed on us in all the time. I would like to one of the sabbats use it as a first language

johnryano

If Irish is the first langauge of the majority of posters on this forum it would explain a lot about the quality of English.

Jester252

johnryano wrote: »

If Irish is the first langauge of the majority of posters on this forum it would explain a lot about the quality of English.

Look out
the grammer police is about

freyners

johnryano wrote: »

If Irish is the first langauge of the majority of posters on this forum it would explain a lot about the quality of English.

so is irish your first language then

Polar Ice

johnryano wrote: »

if this is passed I will request every single document published by the su be translated into irish, i will conduct all conversation with the su in irish and i will speak in council meetings only in irish..

freyners wrote: »

i seriously doubt that, again its more about having the languages on the same footing

If you make it the official language of the Union you're just asking for someone who is either: a)annoyed for some reason, b)Has a love affair with Irish, c)trolling. to go in and ask for some documents in Irish that they know aren't readily available. (Is the SU constitution available in Irish please? )

Plus, if you make it the official language, stuff like minutes to meetings and agendas would have to be primarily circulated in Irish. You'd bring the place to a (highly amusing) grinding halt!

johnryano

Polar Ice wrote: »

You'd bring the place to a (highly amusing) grinding halt!

perhaps there is some method to this madness

Delta Kilo

Jester252 wrote: »

Look out
the grammer police is about

Uh oh...




It was probably intentional, I know

Zeouterlimits

Wonderful, I have two important meeting I can't miss when this is on. Bawls.

If the Irish motion passes... I'll be glad to be out of UL.

- Motion on Retaining Services of Communications Officer
Hope CO Services are somewhat saved.
- Motion to Reduce Quorum of a General Meeting to 100
I sense a UL Meme coming along
- Motion to Recognise Irish as the Official Language of the Union

- Motion to Reduce wages of Sabbatical Officers by €1/hour
Seems sensible, if unfortunate.
- Motion to Reduce wages of Sabbatical Officers during Handover/Training
Seems sensible, if unfortunate.
- Motion re additonal articles for draft constituion
- Motion re Sabbats to wear silly hats.
Ugh.

deise go deo

wnolan1992 wrote: »

- Motion to Recognise Irish as the Official Language of the Union

The motion submitted was to make Irish an official language, not the official language of the Union. I will talk to Kelly tomorrow to correct this.

It is part of a wider campaign over the next few weeks being brought forward by An Cumann Gaelach to sort out the status of the Irish Language in the Union while it is being restructured.

The campaign we are starting will aim to give students a chance to choose which language they wish to use with the union, Irish or English, idealy we would like to see every student given a choice on the registration form in first year where they will indicate their language choice, and they should be able to change their mind at any time after that.

Should a student choose English, then nothing changes for them, should they choose Irish, then they will be part of the Irish Language community on campus. The Irish officer should then be seen as representing that group, and idealy would be elected by/from them, and would be responsible for developing the services available in Irish for the students that want them.

We are fully aware that the SU is broke, and do not expect the Union to pay for translations or any other cost associated with providing services in Irish while it is unable to pay its own staff, Untill SU Finances are sorted An Cumann Gaelach will be willing to pick up the tab on whatever costs arise from this, we are aiming to secure agreement in principle for the funding of those services after the SU does recover financially, the system we would like to see put in place at that time would be one where the amount of funding for providing services in Irish would be proportional to the number of students looking for those services.


It is not being suggested that Irish become the First language of the Union, or that every document/email/service provided by the union must be in Irish.

Votáil ar son na Gaeilge

Mossin

wnolan1992 wrote: »

- Motion to Recognise Irish as the Official Language of the Union

See below:

deise go deo wrote: »

The motion submitted was to make Irish an official language, not the official language of the Union. I will talk to Kelly tomorrow to correct this.

It is part of a wider campaign over the next few weeks being brought forward by An Cumann Gaelach to sort out the status of the Irish Language in the Union while it is being restructured.

For those not in agreement, in 2007, Irish became recognised as an official EU language: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/irish-becomes-the-23rd-official-language-of-eu-430615.html

No-one is saying that Irish will overcome English as the dominant ULSU language...rather people are asking that Irish become recognised, and that all documents be translated into Irish, and rightly so imho!

Take our own constitution for example [The Irish Constitution, not that of the ULSU]:

Candidates must be Irish citizens and over 35 years old. However, there is a discrepancy between the English- and Irish-language texts of Article 12.4.1°. According to the English text, an eligible candidate "has reached his thirty-fifth year of age", whereas the Irish text has this as "ag a bhfuil cúig bliana tríochad slán" ("has completed his thirty-five years"). Because a person's thirty-fifth year of life begins on his or her thirty-fourth birthday, this means there is a one year's difference between the minimum ages as stated in the two texts.

Guess What folks, we are Irish, and imo, Irish has historic sentiment, and should take precident for articles and readings and whatever else [including ULSU documents] it takes in order to keep what has officially been regarded as an EU language.
If you dont agree, I wont argue with you, as someone that loves my heritage, and spent 6 years in UL, I'd hate to see Irish decline without a fight!

J_E

This is not high priority. It's wasting time and resources (of which there are not many) to appease a niche audience.

deise go deo

Cydoniac wrote: »

This is not high priority. It's wasting time and resources (of which there are not many) to appease a niche audience.

If you read my post, you will see that we do not expect the SU to commit resourses to this while it is in financial dificulty, as for its priority, I think the voters will decide that at UGM.

J_E

Regardless, I see it being a huge headache on the admin side, translating masses of documents into Irish (some of which are several hundred pages). I don't understand what's so wrong with reading such documents in English?

deise go deo

Cydoniac wrote: »

Regardless, I see it being a huge headache on the admin side, translating masses of documents into Irish (some of which are several hundred pages). I don't understand what's so wrong with reading such documents in English?

The Irish Officer would be responsible for providing services in Irish for those that want them, as we see it, the Irish Officer would call a meeting of all those students who choose Irish, at which the students would be asked what they want made available in Irish, from which an Irish Language Plan would be worked out by the Irish officer for the year.

The role of the SU would not be to do the work for the Irish officer, or under the current financial circumstances, pick up any related costs, but just to facilitate the Irish officer in carrying out their role.

No headache for the SU
No Waste of time
No waste of resourses.

I don't why should people who want to use Irish be forced to use English.

reunion

deise go deo wrote: »

I don't why should people who want to use Irish be forced to use English.

Then you shouldn't have come to an english speaking college.

Mossin wrote: »

Guess What folks, we are Irish, and imo, Irish has historic sentiment, and should take precident for articles and readings and whatever else [including ULSU documents] it takes in order to keep what has officially been regarded as an EU language.

Not everyone in the college is Irish, however everyone in the college can speak english which takes precident for articles, readings and whatever else.

Spanish is an EU language, going by your logic, spanish should be an official language too?


I'm against this motion 100%. We are a students' union representing students, what's next? add french, spanish and german to the mix? then japanese for those few japanese students?

The Students' Union is meant to be free from bias, by adding Irish to its official language range you are excluding foreign students (or you go down the crazy route of making everything available in every language).

Tbh, it sounds like you guys in An Cumann Gaelach really don't know what's going on currently in the union. Either that or you guys are promoting irish completely the wrong way.

Cadroc

reunion wrote: »

Then you shouldn't have come to an english speaking college.

Not everyone in the college is Irish, however everyone in the college can speak english which takes precident for articles, readings and whatever else.

Spanish is an EU language, going by your logic, spanish should be an official language too?

Eh, no. Irish is the official language of this country. The motion is not to make it THE official language of the union, but AN official language. Everything this entails will apparently fall under the remit of the Irish officer. No one will be forced to deal with the Union as Gaeilge. I'm 100% pro this motion and I am not affiliated with CnaG here. I'm just surprised this hasn't happened sooner.

Also in regards to this being an English speaking college, I speak Irish daily and there are many of us who do. There are Irish language only accommodation and a Seomra Gaeilge in the languages building.

reunion

Cadroc wrote: »

Eh, no. Irish is the official language of this country. The motion is not to make it THE official language of the union, but AN official language. Everything this entails will apparently fall under the remit of the Irish officer. No one will be forced to deal with the Union as Gaeilge. I'm 100% pro this motion and I am not affiliated with CnaG here. I'm just surprised this hasn't happened sooner.

The motion says THE and a change to AN would be a significiant change which an amendment would not allow.

Irish should not be an official language of the SU, but rather the SU should support the Irish officer. The irish officer (presumably paid by the college) would translate documents on request. By making it an official language, you will make sabbats and staff (who aren't required to know irish) have to have a translator for people who wish to speak to them in irish (which they must faciliate as Irish would become on par with english). So people will be forced to deal with people in Irish.

This really is on par with the hats motion imho, not needed, not urgent and clearly not a care about the severity of the state of the Union. I honestly feel like whoever submitted wanted to troll people... I also think that the motion will add another 30 minute long discussion when other motions require more attention.

Cadroc

I think if you read back, the motion was submitted to say An Official language rather than The official language. Should be clarified later on this evening I'm sure.

Either way, it remains our official language and until such a time as that changes, I will advocate for it to be seen as one of our universities official languages.

Also, I'm not sure but it may be clarified later, as far as I know the Irish Officer is elected by the Class Reps Council? It is an unpaid position and the person generally studies the language. In my experience, the Irish language lecturers and tutors would be more than happy to encourage students who wish to translate documents. There would be no real cost to the union. The documents don't necessarily have to be printed either. An electronic copy would suffice if it came to it, I'm sure.

deise go deo

reunion wrote: »

The motion says THE and a change to AN would be a significiant change which an amendment would not allow.

Irish should not be an official language of the SU, but rather the SU should support the Irish officer. The irish officer (presumably paid by the college) would translate documents on request. By making it an official language, you will make sabbats and staff (who aren't required to know irish) have to have a translator for people who wish to speak to them in irish (which they must faciliate as Irish would become on par with english). So people will be forced to deal with people in Irish.

This really is on par with the hats motion imho, not needed, not urgent and clearly not a care about the severity of the state of the Union. I honestly feel like whoever submitted wanted to troll people... I also think that the motion will add another 30 minute long discussion when other motions require more attention.

I wrote the motion and can gaurentee that the motion submitted said 'An official language'
The advertised motion was a typo, as confirmed by the SU to me today, the motion that will come up at the UGM will be to make Irish 'an official language'

The Irish officer is not a paid position.

There would be no obligation to have translators for SU staff as you suggest. That is utter fantasy land stuff.
No one will be forced to use Irish, to suggest otherwise is to willfully spread misinformation.

Chimaera

There would be no obligation to have translators for SU staff as you suggest. That is utter fantasy land stuff.
No one will be forced to use Irish, to suggest otherwise is to willfully spread misinformation.

I think you misunderstand the implication of what an official language is. It means that all business conducted by the Union may be conducted in Irish at the choice of either party and that choice may not be over-ruled. For example, I could choose to raise a point to a UGM completely in Irish and expect to conduct the subsequent discussion in that language and no-one could over-rule my choice to do so.

I think the intent of what you are doing would be better served by a motion along the lines of "the Union should work to promote the use of the Irish language where practicable".

deise go deo

Chimaera wrote: »

I think you misunderstand the implication of what an official language is. It means that all business conducted by the Union may be conducted in Irish at the choice of either party and that choice may not be over-ruled. For example, I could choose to raise a point to a UGM completely in Irish and expect to conduct the subsequent discussion in that language and no-one could over-rule my choice to do so.

I think the intent of what you are doing would be better served by a motion along the lines of "the Union should work to promote the use of the Irish language where practicable".

I do not agree with your interpritation of official language status.

Yes, any student could go into the SU and demand to speak Irish, just as they could today if they wanted to.
That does not mean that those in the union will be obliged to be able to speak Irish, that is what the Irish officer is for, should someone wish to use Irish, they would have to go through the Irish Officer.

The provision of services in Irish would be the responsibility of the Irish officer, that is entirely in keeping with national and international norms when it comes to service provision in official languages where not everyone speaks every official language.

I could choose to raise a point to a UGM completely in Irish

Yep just like anyone could have at any point up to now.

and expect to conduct the subsequent discussion in that language and no-one could over-rule my choice to do so.

No, You could continue speaking in Irish if you wish, just like you could anyway, but you could not expect anyone else to as they would have the equal right to use English.

reunion

deise go deo wrote: »

I wrote the motion and can gaurentee that the motion submitted said 'An official language'
The advertised motion was a typo, as confirmed by the SU to me today, the motion that will come up at the UGM will be to make Irish 'an official language'

The Irish officer is not a paid position.

There would be no obligation to have translators for SU staff as you suggest. That is utter fantasy land stuff.
No one will be forced to use Irish, to suggest otherwise is to willfully spread misinformation.

That needs to be clarified ASAP to ALL STUDENTS VIA EMAIL. If it isn't done, it does raise questions about what motion stands come the UGM.

No one is currently forced to use Irish, that motion FORCES anyone and everyone, at the request of one individual, to have the AGM/EGM/UGM, hustings for candidates along with anfocal being in both Irish and English. This requires an irish language translator to be present at all union meetings, hustings, class rep councils and etc.

deise go deo wrote: »

I do not agree with your interpritation of official language status.

This motions doesn't agree with your interpretation.

deise go deo wrote: »

Yes, any student could go into the SU and demand to speak Irish, just as they could today if they wanted to.
That does not mean that those in the union will be obliged to be able to speak Irish, that is what the Irish officer is for, should someone wish to use Irish, they would have to go through the Irish Officer.

Sounds like an irish translater there!

deise go deo wrote: »

The provision of services in Irish would be the responsibility of the Irish officer, that is entirely in keeping with national and international norms when it comes to service provision in official languages where not everyone speaks every official language..

The EU offer on the spot translations of dialogue between countries, why? EACH LANGUAGE IS AN OFFICIAL LANGUAGE AND MUST BE TREATED EQUALLY. So every and all documents have to be released in every official language, same with meetings. If someone requests the meeting in Irish, an Irish translator is required.

Clearly official isn't even the word you want to use, secondary is probably more appropriate.

Chimaera wrote: »

I think the intent of what you are doing would be better served by a motion along the lines of "the Union should work to promote the use of the Irish language where practicable".

What the motion should be! I think that's already in the constitution (though I haven't checked it specifically for that).

Jester252

Surly there is a cost in the Irish motion

Chimaera

That is the interpretation used everywhere else that I've ever seen e.g. government, EU, etc. Indeed, it was the motivation for Ireland to seek official language status for Irish within the EU. I don't see any justification for a different interpretation of the term in relation to a legal entity such as ULSU.

Interestingly, the ULSU constitution as it stands does not have any direction on what langauge the union officially uses, unless I missed it. If the backers of this motion have found one, it'd be useful to see the reference.

reunion

deise go deo wrote: »

Yep just like anyone could have at any point up to now.

No, You could continue speaking in Irish if you wish, just like you could anyway, but you could not expect anyone else to as they would have the equal right to use English.

Currently you could ask a question in Irish, but the chair can disregard that question as they are under no obligation to translate the question to english.

The proposed motion FORCES an Irish translater to be present at the meeting to translate any and all questions from English to Irish, along with the answers, at the request of one individual.

If this motion passes, I will be requesting every single document from the SU, every article in anfocal and every question and answer in the AGM/EGM/UGM and referendums to be in Irish and to be translated on the spot at each event. This means the Irish officer will have no time to promote irish on campus. This motion serves to hurt irish on campus.

deise go deo

reunion wrote: »

That needs to be clarified ASAP to ALL STUDENTS VIA EMAIL. If it isn't done, it does raise questions about what motion stands come the UGM.

I have requested a clarification from Rosin Monaghan, the SU democracy development officer.

No one is currently forced to use Irish, that motion FORCES anyone and everyone, at the request of one individual, to have the AGM/EGM/UGM, hustings for candidates along with anfocal being in both Irish and English. This requires an irish language translator to be present at all union meetings, hustings, class rep councils and etc.

That is not the case.

This motions doesn't agree with your interpretation.

You are wrong there.

Sounds like an irish translater there!

Irish officer, the position already exists, if you want to see it as a translator then fine, though that would not be their job description.

The EU offer on the spot translations of dialogue between countries, why? EACH LANGUAGE IS AN OFFICIAL LANGUAGE AND MUST BE TREATED EQUALLY. So every and all documents have to be released in every official language, same with meetings. If someone requests the meeting in Irish, an Irish translator is required.

Are you seriously trying to compare the Students Union to the EU? lol

reunion

Ok now I think you are just trolling!

deise go deo wrote: »

That is not the case.



You are wrong there.

Convincing arguement. Start with that at the UGM, it will be sure to pass.

deise go deo wrote: »

Are you seriously trying to compare the Students Union to the EU? lol

Someone else brought up the EU.

Mossin wrote: »

Guess What folks, we are Irish, and imo, Irish has historic sentiment, and should take precident for articles and readings and whatever else [including ULSU documents] it takes in order to keep what has officially been regarded as an EU language.
If you dont agree, I wont argue with you, as someone that loves my heritage, and spent 6 years in UL, I'd hate to see Irish decline without a fight!

Chimaera

Are you seriously trying to compare the Students Union to the EU? lol

The SU is established by statute as a legal body to represent students. IMO this makes demands of language used in its governance similar to the demands of language used in the governance of any other legally established representative body e.g. the EU.

Bottom line is that the only use I'm aware of for the term "Official Langauge" is in the context that I and others have presented.

So far you have yet to present any evidence to contradict this view. Saying "You are wrong" does not constitute evidence in any sense of the word.

Zeouterlimits

"An" not "the" makes a huge difference to the annoyance I displayed last night.
I do apologise for that, I was quite stressed and tired at the time. The wording of "the" to "an" is a big difference from a personal views perspective.

Re:the implications of "Official Language"
Could the motion be reworded?

Motion to have (all) future ULSU documentation translated to Irish