Sea Shepherd

Discodog

long range shooter wrote: »

Discodog wrote: »

Whales don't go to court,people do;)and piracy and sabotage is what criminals do;)

Animal cruelty is illegal. There is no way to hunt Whales without causing suffering. Many countries have laws that allow members of the public to intervene in order to prevent cruelty. Even in Ireland the law allows any person to enter a dog pound to provide food or water.

So one could argue that the Whalers are the criminals especially as they can be considered to be killing protected animals in a wildlife reserve.

long range shooter

Discodog wrote: »

long range shooter wrote: »

Animal cruelty is illegal. There is no way to hunt Whales without causing suffering. Many countries have laws that allow members of the public to intervene in order to prevent cruelty. Even in Ireland the law allows any person to enter a dog pound to provide food or water.

So one could argue that the Whalers are the criminals especially as they can be considered to be killing protected animals in a wildlife reserve.

Animal cruelty!Have you ever been in a slaughterhouse?
How do you think cattle,chickens are being slaughtered?they just walk in and die???
And how do you know that it's not possible to hunt whales without causing suffering?
And you are saying that sabotage and endangering life's at sea is legal to prevent animal cruelty???Well at least it's laws against piracy at sea;)

Discodog

long range shooter wrote: »

Discodog wrote: »

Animal cruelty!Have you ever been in a slaughterhouse?
How do you think cattle,chickens are being slaughtered?they just walk in and die???
And how do you know that it's not possible to hunt whales without causing suffering?
And you are saying that sabotage and endangering life's at sea is legal to prevent animal cruelty???Well at least it's laws against piracy at sea;)

Cows are not chased across fields to the point of exhaustion. A Whale has to be chased until it can be harpooned. We don't kill nursing cows & allow their calves to die of starvation unlike Whales.

It is a recognised principle that one can use appropriate force to prevent crime or apprehend a criminal. For example with Somali pirates.

long range shooter

Discodog wrote: »

long range shooter wrote: »

Cows are not chased across fields to the point of exhaustion. A Whale has to be chased until it can be harpooned. We don't kill nursing cows & allow their calves to die of starvation unlike Whales.

It is a recognised principle that one can use appropriate force to prevent crime or apprehend a criminal. For example with Somali pirates.

You don't know much about whalehunting I take it:rolleyes:
The whale is killed when it comes up to breath.
The grenade harpoon is filled with an explosive called penthrite,and it explodes when it has penetrated the whale about a foot,killing it instantly.
If a harpoon should miss and only injure the whale ,as in much other hunting it does occur,the job will be finished with a high powered rifle,not smaller than 9.3mm calibre.;)

R P McMurphy

long range shooter wrote: »

Discodog wrote: »

You don't know much about whalehunting I take it:rolleyes:
The whale is killed when it comes up to breath.
The grenade harpoon is filled with an explosive called penthrite,and it explodes when it has penetrated the whale about a foot,killing it instantly.
If a harpoon should miss and only injure the whale ,as in much other hunting it does occur,the job will be finished with a high powered rifle,not smaller than 9.3mm calibre.;)

The purpose of which is research?

long range shooter

R P McMurphy wrote: »

long range shooter wrote: »

The purpose of which is research?

No,to hunt the legal quota of 1280 minke whale

R P McMurphy

long range shooter wrote: »

R P McMurphy wrote: »

No,to hunt the legal quota of 1280 minke whale

Under the guise of research as it is a whale sanctuary where commercial whaling is illegal. They have failed to provide any evidence of research conducted

long range shooter

R P McMurphy wrote: »

long range shooter wrote: »

Under the guise of research as it is a whale sanctuary where commercial whaling is illegal. They have failed to provide any evidence of research conducted

Who are they?

R P McMurphy

long range shooter wrote: »

R P McMurphy wrote: »

Who are they?

The Japanese

long range shooter

R P McMurphy wrote: »

long range shooter wrote: »

The Japanese

Well I am not talking about the Japanese,I am Norwegian;)

R P McMurphy

long range shooter wrote: »

R P McMurphy wrote: »

Well I am not talking about the Japanese,I am Norwegian;)

Ah right, I thought the discussion was on the Southern Ocean. Didn't read through the thread tbh

long range shooter

R P McMurphy wrote: »

long range shooter wrote: »

Ah right, I thought the discussion was on the Southern Ocean. Didn't read through the thread tbh

No worries,but I think the sea Shepard is afraid of coming back in the North Sea anyway,lol.

http://youtu.be/94W4trkb1Pw

That's how you deal with real pirates;)

God I love it how they dramatise it on the sea Shepard.i am surprised he didn't end up in Hollywood after this.

Discodog

long range shooter wrote: »

Discodog wrote: »

You don't know much about whalehunting I take it:rolleyes:
The whale is killed when it comes up to breath.
The grenade harpoon is filled with an explosive called penthrite,and it explodes when it has penetrated the whale about a foot,killing it instantly.
If a harpoon should miss and only injure the whale ,as in much other hunting it does occur,the job will be finished with a high powered rifle,not smaller than 9.3mm calibre.;)

You conveniently miss out the chase which can last for over an hour until the Whale is exhausted.

Many Whales get hit, injured & not killed.

http://m.digitaljournal.com/blog/13299

long range shooter

Discodog wrote: »

long range shooter wrote: »

You conveniently miss out the chase which can last for over an hour until the Whale is exhausted.

Many Whales get hit, injured & not killed.

http://m.digitaljournal.com/blog/13299

Many Japanese whalers still uses the old hand held harpoons,not the mounted cannon with the penthrite or the cold grenade,as used by Norwegian whalers back in the 1980s.
In the 1980s the instant kill rate for Norwegian whalers was 17%,after they changed over to the penthrite grenade the instant kill rate was 80% in the 2000-2002 seasons and gets better each year;)

What's the difference from doing whale hunting with a harpoon,to doing deer hunting with a bow????



http://youtu.be/xdKTIXIPTuw

http://youtu.be/7oAWI12tTz0

Discodog

long range shooter wrote: »

Discodog wrote: »

Many Japanese whalers still uses the old hand held harpoons,not the mounted cannon with the penthrite or the cold grenade,as used by Norwegian whalers back in the 1980s.
In the 1980s the instant kill rate for Norwegian whalers was 17%,after they changed over to the penthrite grenade the instant kill rate was 80% in the 2000-2002 seasons and gets better each year;)

I prefer to believe the scientific evidence that confirms that Whaling is unavoidably cruel & unjustifiable.

You are still ignoring the chase.

We have moved on from the days when cruelty was justified as part of one's culture. We no longer need to hunt Whales for food or oil. The only reason to hunt is to preserve the old ways.

There is a huge difference in your analogy. A Deer can be shot with a rifle & killed instantly. Hunting with a bow is illegal in many countries because it's too easy for the shooter to injure & not kill the deer.

But in any event you stalk a deer rather than chasing it.

long range shooter

Discodog wrote: »

long range shooter wrote: »

I prefer to believe the scientific evidence that confirms that Whaling is unavoidably cruel & unjustifiable.

You are still ignoring the chase.

We have moved on from the days when cruelty was justified as part of one's culture. We no longer need to hunt Whales for food or oil. The only reason to hunt is to preserve the old ways.

There is a huge difference in your analogy. A Deer can be shot with a rifle & killed instantly. Hunting with a bow is illegal in many countries because it's too easy for the shooter to injure & not kill the deer.


But in any event you stalk a deer rather than chasing it.

How many times do I have to explain it??the whale is not being chased,it's being shot when it comes up to breath.:rolleyes:
The only time a whale is being chased,is if its injured.Any injured animal will be chased.
And a deer can suffer the same way as a whale if injured,it's all about shot placement.
We have moved on,maybe you have,but then again I don't think Ireland ever had a hunting tradition for whales.
But you still do fox hunting on horseback though;)

Discodog

long range shooter wrote: »

Discodog wrote: »

How many times do I have to explain it??the whale is not being chased,it's being shot when it comes up to breath.:rolleyes:
The only time a whale is being chased,is if its injured.Any injured animal will be chased.
And a deer can suffer the same way as a whale if injured,it's all about shot placement.
We have moved on,maybe you have,but then again I don't think Ireland ever had a hunting tradition for whales.
But you still do fox hunting on horseback though;)

You can't guess where a Whale will surface. So you watch for a breach/blow & chase. There is no alternative. You can't creep up on a Whale.

Tradition isn't always good for example we used to send children down mines.

Fox hunting has been banned in the North. It is also cruel & unjustifiable.

By the way I spent many years rescuing wildlife including animals shot with bows & guns. I have seen the injuries first hand.

andy_g

long range shooter wrote: »

Good thing Watson is stepping down then;):D
He cant go any closer than 450 meters of any Japanese whaling vessel;):D:D:D:D

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013/01/08/canada-paul-watson-sea-shepherd-conservation-society-president.html

There's already a plan in place for this and only stepping down from Sea Shepherd US and Australian branches.

long range shooter wrote: »

Discodog wrote: »

Animal cruelty!Have you ever been in a slaughterhouse?
How do you think cattle,chickens are being slaughtered?they just walk in and die???
And how do you know that it's not possible to hunt whales without causing suffering?

That's why im vegetarian.

long range shooter wrote: »

Discodog wrote: »

How many times do I have to explain it??the whale is not being chased,it's being shot when it comes up to breath.:rolleyes:
The only time a whale is being chased,is if its injured.Any injured animal will be chased.

Please show proof the whale/s are not being chased as this is not true if you have seen it first hand.

SarahFinglas

I don't think even the Japanese would dare to argue that whaling is not cruel.... They continue to do it, illegally, in an international sanctuary, for reasons of tradition, pure and simple. Dog fighting here is Ireland is possibly a better analogy than our factory farms and slaughterhouses (which are also abhorrent, but for different reasons in many ways). Dog fighting is unnecessary, done for tradition and profit (of course) and is still rife. Another similarity is that the authorities are reluctant to do anything to stop it. My vet has reported it to the gardai, the dog wardens and the SPCA to no avail..... He has sewn up the throats of placid pedigree breeds like cocker spaniels who were stolen and used as bait and training practice to give the fighting dogs courage. Now, to continue the analogy, I would buy pints all night for the man or woman who went in there all guns blazing (so to speak) to stop this horror from happening, putting themselves in danger along the way. I admire their courage and wish I had the same balls myself! I'd be brave enough to chuck some of that smelly acid stuff the SeaShepherds use, if I knew where to get it.
Whaling in the Souther ocean is illegal. Whaling is recognised by scientists worldwide as being cruel and causing immense suffering. Only the Sea Shepherds are actually doing anything about it. It is not the only thing they do either, but it is an important one. Sure, it would be great if the authorities stopped it, but that is not happening. So I say hats off to anyone willing to go out there and actually do something. Petitions to governments might as well be used to wipe your backside..... The simply do not work and are an utter waste of time in these situations.

long range shooter

andy_g wrote: »

There's already a plan in place for this and only stepping down from Sea Shepherd US and Australian branches.

long range shooter wrote: »

That's why im vegetarian.

long range shooter wrote: »

Please show proof the whale/s are not being chased as this is not true if you have seen it first hand.

And how do you know it's not true?have you ever seen a whale being killed?
I have;)
And it's really quite simple,you either cut the engine and wait until the whale coes up to breath,or you simply manoeuvre to the place where you believe it's coming up to breath.

long range shooter

Discodog wrote: »

long range shooter wrote: »

You can't guess where a Whale will surface. So you watch for a breach/blow & chase. There is no alternative. You can't creep up on a Whale.

Tradition isn't always good for example we used to send children down mines.

Fox hunting has been banned in the North. It is also cruel & unjustifiable.

By the way I spent many years rescuing wildlife including animals shot with bows & guns. I have seen the injuries first hand.

You can guess where a whale will surface,if you go ahead of its trail,and cut the engine and wait until it surface and then shoot the harpoon.
Tradition is good if its sustainable.

long range shooter

SarahFinglas wrote: »

I don't think even the Japanese would dare to argue that whaling is not cruel.... They continue to do it, illegally, in an international sanctuary, for reasons of tradition, pure and simple. Dog fighting here is Ireland is possibly a better analogy than our factory farms and slaughterhouses (which are also abhorrent, but for different reasons in many ways). Dog fighting is unnecessary, done for tradition and profit (of course) and is still rife. Another similarity is that the authorities are reluctant to do anything to stop it. My vet has reported it to the gardai, the dog wardens and the SPCA to no avail..... He has sewn up the throats of placid pedigree breeds like cocker spaniels who were stolen and used as bait and training practice to give the fighting dogs courage. Now, to continue the analogy, I would buy pints all night for the man or woman who went in there all guns blazing (so to speak) to stop this horror from happening, putting themselves in danger along the way. I admire their courage and wish I had the same balls myself! I'd be brave enough to chuck some of that smelly acid stuff the SeaShepherds use, if I knew where to get it.
Whaling in the Souther ocean is illegal. Whaling is recognised by scientists worldwide as being cruel and causing immense suffering. Only the Sea Shepherds are actually doing anything about it. It is not the only thing they do either, but it is an important one. Sure, it would be great if the authorities stopped it, but that is not happening. So I say hats off to anyone willing to go out there and actually do something. Petitions to governments might as well be used to wipe your backside..... The simply do not work and are an utter waste of time in these situations.

How can whaling be cruel,When scientific data proves hat 80% of the Whales died instantly using the penthrite grenade harpoon??

andy_g

long range shooter wrote: »

andy_g wrote: »

There's already a plan in place for this and only stepping down from Sea Shepherd US and Australian branches.

long range shooter wrote: »

That's why im vegetarian.



And how do you know it's not true?have you ever seen a whale being killed?
I have;)
And it's really quite simple,you either cut the engine and wait until the whale coes up to breath,or you simply manoeuvre to the place where you believe it's coming up to breath.

To answer you question yes i have as i have been crew in the past with SSCS.

The harpoon does no kill instantly a whale can survive for up to an hour after being struck then drowns in its own blood.

So here is another one for ya what is the gain from the "hunt" in Tajii Japan?

long range shooter

andy_g wrote: »

long range shooter wrote: »

andy_g wrote: »

There's already a plan in place for this and only stepping down from Sea Shepherd US and Australian branches.



To answer you question yes i have as i have been crew in the past with SSCS.

The harpoon does no kill instantly a whale can survive for up to an hour after being struck then drowns in its own blood.

So here is another one for ya what is the gain from the "hunt" in Tajii Japan?

What the Japanese do is up to them,I support whaling done with grenade harpoon,and that its regulated by quota.The IWC have been wrong before regarding there numbers.

And where is your proof of that?There was suffering back in the 80s when cold grenade harpoons where used,not today when the harpoon with the explosives in it.back in the 80s the instant kill ratio was only 17%,but after they want over to using penthrite grenade harpoons,the instant kill ratio went up to 80%.
If you go into IWCs pages you will find your data there.
The IWC is actually trying to get the use of the grenade harpoon to be used by aboriginal tribes who still do whaling the old way with hand harpoons.

Boombastic

I was on the Farley Mowat many years ago. I've never met such dedicated people aboard and I applaud all their efforts


What would people rather they do, unfurl banners and shout slogans like Greenpeace? Direct action is the only things that works to stop against illegal whaling. Many governments would like to just turn a blind eye. If the crew are putting themselves in danger, it's because they choose to for a greater cause.

long range shooter

Boombastic wrote: »

I was on the Farley Mowat many years ago. I've never met such dedicated people aboard and I applaud all their efforts


What would people rather they do, unfurl banners and shout slogans like Greenpeace? Direct action is the only things that works to stop against illegal whaling. Many governments would like to just turn a blind eye. If the crew are putting themselves in danger, it's because they choose to for a greater cause.

There is no illegal whaling,the quota and permission have been given by the IWC.
And sure a captain with a criminal record,that's not a ship I would work on!

Boombastic

long range shooter wrote: »

There is no illegal whaling,the quota and permission have been given by the IWC.
And sure a captain with a criminal record,that's not a ship I would work on!

Ah yes their 'Research' which can be effectively carried out by non-lethal methods.

long range shooter

Boombastic wrote: »

Ah yes their 'Research' which can be effectively carried out by non-lethal methods.

Non lethal methods,you mean the prosecutions made against the Sea Shepard for sabotaging and endanger life's at sea?

Boombastic

long range shooter wrote: »

Non lethal methods,you mean the prosecutions made against the Sea Shepard for sabotaging and endanger life's at sea?

No I mean by studying the whales and their populations by not killing them

Would the Andenes ramming SS in international waters count as a lethal or non lethal method?

long range shooter

Boombastic wrote: »

No I mean by studying the whales and their populations by not killing them

Would the Andenes ramming SS in international waters count as a lethal or non lethal method?

ah yes,I am sure they had there reasons:rolleyes:

1992: Sea Shepherd vessel "Whales Forever" collides with Norwegian Coast Guard vessel "Andenes" on July 4. Charges against Paul Watson include negligent navigation, refusal to leave Norwegian waters on orders of the Coast Guard and transmitting false distress signals.


1993: Paul Watson orders the crew on board the Sea Shepherd vessel Edward Abbey (formerly US Navy) to open cannon fire at a Japanese fishing vessel. Sea Shepherd crew do not carry out the order, but instead fire a shot across the bow of the Japanese vessel. The Japanese vessel does not stop. (Recorded by Yorkshire Television Documentary "Defenders of the Wild - Ocean Rider".)

1993: Federal Grand Jury in Michigan State hands down five-count indictment against Coronado for illegal use of explosives, extortion, threats to interfere with interstate commerce and interstate transportation, to commit arson, theft and destruction of government property and for receiving stolen property. Indictments stem from February 1992 fire-bombing of Michigan State University in East Lancing. Coronado involved in sinking two whaling vessels in Iceland in 1986.

1994: Sea Shepherd claims responsibility for the unsuccessful attempt at scuttling the combined minke whaling and fishing vessel Senet at her moorings in Gressvik. The vessel was salvaged, but the water had caused considerable damage. Paul Watson tells Norwegian newspaper Dagbladet on January 26 that former US Navy Seal Commandos took part in attack on the Senet. "Certainly these men are trained to kill, but they are also well disciplined and respect my orders," he told the newspaper.

1994: US National Fisheries Institute asks for investigation into Sea Shepherd. "The recent alleged actions against Norwegian fishing vessels constitute a clear case of piracy," it says in a letter to former US IWC Commissioner James Baker. "Acts of violence against fishermen of any nation cannot be tolerated. Their safety and livelihood could be threatened unless US officials vigorously condemn violence on the high seas."