Windows 8 Metro: The fall of windows or the best invention ever

Fysh

I installed the release preview yesterday on the desktop and, well, eurgh.

The stuff that's not Metro is grand, but for the most part is basically Win7 with a couple of tweaks. I'm surprised they don't make more effort to explain that in Win 8 Microsoft Security Essentials is baked in, under the Windows Defender name. The install time and process was painless enough, a slight improvement on what they'd already achieved in 7 which was pretty damn sweet. But nothing astonishing. I had a look at the store but don't particularly like being forced to link a Live account to it just to install a free game or something. Still, if they get it moving towards a repository-type system it'd be worth it.

I still think Metro is utter crap on a non-touch interface, and it's a stupid idea that you can't turn it off. When you're having to basically tinker with it to get a usable list of your programs because even the MS installers populate the tile list with billions of unnecessary shortcuts, it's going wrong. Not to mention that the idea of clicking empty space at various points of the screen to get menu functions is retarded.

PogMoThoin

Oh, Look, Malibu Stacey got a new hat.

Tried this in a VM this morning, not that impressed TBH. It's Windows 7 with a few tweaks. Metro will work well on a touchscreen device, but is horrible with KB & M. Not liking the removal of the Start button. Lots of ideas copied from Android and iOS, like the way it handles apps etc. Task Manager got an overhaul, but no new functionality. And your install is now tied to an email account.

refusetolose

is the release preview totally different from the consumer preview?

_AVALANCHE_

Is this true??

Red Hat Will Pay Microsoft To Get Past UEFI Restrictions

"Fedora is going to pay Microsoft to let them distribute a PC operating system. Microsoft is about to move from effectively owning the PC hardware platform to literally owning it. Once Windows 8 is released, hardware manufacturers will be forced to ship machines that refuse to run any software that is not explicitly approved by Microsoft — and that includes competing operating systems like Linux. Technically Fedora didn't have to go down this path. But, as this article explains, they are between a rock and a hard place: if they didn't pay Microsoft to let them onto the PC platform, they would have to explain to their potential users how to mess with firmware settings just to install the OS. How long before circumventing the secure boot mechanism is considered a DMCA violation and a felony?"

Fysh

_AVALANCHE_ wrote: »

Is this true??

Red Hat Will Pay Microsoft To Get Past UEFI Restrictions

"Fedora is going to pay Microsoft to let them distribute a PC operating system. Microsoft is about to move from effectively owning the PC hardware platform to literally owning it. Once Windows 8 is released, hardware manufacturers will be forced to ship machines that refuse to run any software that is not explicitly approved by Microsoft — and that includes competing operating systems like Linux. Technically Fedora didn't have to go down this path. But, as this article explains, they are between a rock and a hard place: if they didn't pay Microsoft to let them onto the PC platform, they would have to explain to their potential users how to mess with firmware settings just to install the OS. How long before circumventing the secure boot mechanism is considered a DMCA violation and a felony?"

That's pretty off-topic, TBH. It's a worrying and stupid move (ZOMG! WHAT IF YOU BOOT SOMETHING THAT ATTACKS WINDOWS? Well, here's a tip - why not secure ****ing Windows against such attacks instead of pretending that it's the only OS anyone ever uses?!) on Microsoft's part to push this, but we'll see how the Linux corporate vendors respond...

AlmightyCushion

All you have to do is disable secure boot and you can boot an OS that doesn't support it.

PogMoThoin

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

All you have to do is disable secure boot and you can boot an OS that doesn't support it.

.....if the vendor gives the option in the bios

AlmightyCushion

PogMoThoin wrote: »

.....if the vendor gives the option in the bios

True but you can't really blame Microsoft because Dell/HP/Toshiba or whoever decided not to include that option.

Fysh

Fysh wrote: »

That's pretty off-topic, TBH. It's a worrying and stupid move (ZOMG! WHAT IF YOU BOOT SOMETHING THAT ATTACKS WINDOWS? Well, here's a tip - why not secure ****ing Windows against such attacks instead of pretending that it's the only OS anyone ever uses?!) on Microsoft's part to push this, but we'll see how the Linux corporate vendors respond...

Sounds to me like the next rung in the TCPA/Palladium/NGSCB ladder. I remembered reading a website on this many years ago, thinking it couldn't happen, but it might be getting there.

PogMoThoin

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

True but you can't really blame Microsoft because Dell/HP/Toshiba or whoever decided not to include that option.

This option will only be there because of influence from m$

Right, I'm giving this a go on a Dell XPS M1330. About time I at least gave it a shot.

Alright so. I went in with no good expectations at all. I came out thinking "it's not as bad as I expected." However, I still think Metro is pointless on a desktop - it pretty much is what you would expect on a tablet. I was running it on a Dell XPS M1330 and it ran quite well. It certainly started faster than any other OS I tried on it.

Still, there's some things that grate me - shutting down the machine is a chore for one. I found that Ctrl+Alt+Del was the quickest way to do it, otherwise it was via Winkey+C. I know they expect you to leave it on (being a tablet OS) but lets face it - desktop users need to be able to shut down the machine. They won't be keeping it on all the time in most cases. The UI and language is very dumbed down though - everything's a "PC" now rather than a computer.

I could use it if I had to but I see absolutely no point. I certainly won't be buying it.

BostonB

Its fast though. Hard to ignore that. Especially on older hardware.

BostonB

BostonB wrote: »

Its fast though. Hard to ignore that. Especially on older hardware.

Yeah that's true, the boot time is excellent.

BostonB

I reckon no matter what MS does someone will have tools to make it like W7 or XP when its released. Tbh some of W7 GUI features are better in XP IMO. So I run mods for those in W7. Curiously enough the last W8 release found my USB WiFi no problem. This release doesn't.

BostonB

BostonB wrote: »

I reckon no matter what MS does someone will have tools to make it like W7 or XP when its released. Tbh some of W7 GUI features are better in XP IMO. So I run mods for those in W7. Curiously enough the last W8 release found my USB WiFi no problem. This release doesn't.

Same as. I use Classic Shell to get some of the XP features back in Explorer - mainly the status bar info and navigation pane style.

BostonB

I think the sign of a good OS is, you can hunt around and find everything without too much effort. With W8 I had to get help on the web.

BostonB

BostonB wrote: »

I think the sign of a good OS is, you can hunt around and find everything without too much effort. With W8 I had to get help on the web.

I googled how to shut it down.

_AVALANCHE_

BostonB wrote: »

Its fast though. Hard to ignore that. Especially on older hardware.

Karsini wrote: »

Yeah that's true, the boot time is excellent.

Puny Humans

BostonB wrote: »

I reckon no matter what MS does someone will have tools to make it like W7 or XP when its released. Tbh some of W7 GUI features are better in XP IMO. So I run mods for those in W7. Curiously enough the last W8 release found my USB WiFi no problem. This release doesn't.

They're going well outta their way to make sure the start button doesn't work anyway, I'd say folk will be waiting a long while for W7 Modding.

BostonB

_AVALANCHE_ wrote: »

Puny Humans


They're going well outta their way to make sure the start button doesn't work anyway, I'd say folk will be waiting a long while for W7 Modding.

You do realise you can add a W7 mod start menu to the current releases of W8 now. That how I've been using it so far. Maybe you mean the final versions we haven't seen yet.

_AVALANCHE_

BostonB wrote: »

You do realise you can add a W7 mod start menu to the current releases of W8 now. That how I've been using it so far. Maybe you mean the final versions we haven't seen yet.

I'm going by this.

29
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Microsoft appears to be taking steps to remove legacy code from its Windows 8 operating system that will prevent modifications and hacks to re-enable the Start button and Start Menu. Windows watcher Paul Thurrott reports that the company has been "furiously ripping out" legacy code in Windows 8 recently that lets third parties bring back the Start button, Start Menu, and other legacy parts of the desktop interface. Thurrott claims that several well-known UI hacks that enabled the Start Button in the Consumer Preview do not work on the Release Preview.

_Kaiser_

Karsini wrote: »

Yeah that's true, the boot time is excellent.

Meh Any version I've ever used will always take at least 2 mins to finish setting itself up once it gets to the desktop, regardless of how quickly it got there.

Plowman

This post has been deleted.

Fysh

Plowman wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Interesting question. Windows Defender in Win8 is basically a rebadged Microsoft Security Essentials, so if that's present in RT then you might be ok. Otherwise, it gets messy.

BostonB

AFAIK only Apple charge for updates thus for. MS generally doesn't. Or Linux obviously enough. As up for popups and notifications, isn't that the same for anything that updates these days?

Capt'n Midnight

BostonB wrote: »

AFAIK the only Apple charge for updates thus for.

please explain

MS generally doesn't.

When you consider how many 'new versions of windows' were really just service packs for older ones. And the way you needed to upgrade to PRO get features that were available in a previous version.

Nothing technical, just marketing.

fionny

Cabaal wrote: »

Installed release preview this morning, its just awful interface wise to anything I've ever used before including the first time I used xp and its horrible kid colored interface.

This has a very good chance of alienating people and almost pushing them to OSX, Linux and Chrome/Android devices

I even heard MS are doing their best of stripping all the legacy code relating to the start bar to prevent such hacks... which is plain crazy.

I think they are going so wrong with this version of windows. I will in all likelihood be skipping it.

BostonB

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

please explain...

I didn't mean to derail this into OSX. My point simply was... what paid updates and scans?

Plowman wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

BostonB

fionny wrote: »

I even heard MS are doing their best of stripping all the legacy code relating to the start bar to prevent such hacks... which is plain crazy.

I think they are going so wrong with this version of windows. I will in all likelihood be skipping it.

Bit nuts alright. I have no interest in the metro and metro apps. But the speedy preview has my interest.

fionny

BostonB wrote: »

Bit nuts alright. I have no interest in the metro and metro apps. But the speedy preview has my interest.

I cant see how it affects them if people want to enable the start menu... whats the harm? If anything they should be giving people the option to disable metro!

It will be interesting to see how w8 performs in the market when its released.

If I could have the refinements of w8 with the w7 style interface id be happy.