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Whats considered a good salary?

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    #122
    Odysseus
    Registered Users Posts: 6,754 ✭✭✭Odysseus


    Freddie59 wrote: »
    No, merely pay the staff according to it's means. For example, if my employer told me tomorrow that I would have to take a €10k a year pay cut or go on the dole I would be gutted. But it would be an economic reality.

    There is no way that this country can sustain borrowing to pay people's wages or Social Welfare. No way at all. And it should not be happening in the first instance.

    EDIT: do you think that the rest of us should pay more tax in order to keep your wages artificially high?

    But as people have noted for some of us the private sector pays more, so in my case my wages are not artifically high. This concept of artifically high wages may apply to some but it does not apply to me and others I know. As I said above one of my team is moving to the private sector for better money, hours and other various perks.


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    #123
    Seomra Mushie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 548 ✭✭✭Seomra Mushie


    Dudess wrote: »
    As said, there are professions that pay twice in the private sector what they pay in the public one.

    Yup, but there's less security in the private sector. A lot of people desire the public sector for the security rather than the pay.


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    #124
    twowheelsonly
    Registered Users Posts: 2,268 ✭✭✭twowheelsonly


    gigino wrote: »
    Average public sector salary in the UK - our closest neighbour and one that is helping to bail us out - is 21.5k stg a year. Their Prime Minister is pair 142k stg a year. So good wages there are upwards of 21.5k a year sterling.

    As regards working hours, people in the States get 2 weeks holidays a year. Here certain people take that in sickies.

    So what's the average Private Sector pay there?? Or what is your own equivalent worker earning there??
    Or did you just Google the Public Sector figure so that you could have a dig....
    Freddie59 wrote: »
    But why should he (OR ANYONE ELSE FOR THAT MATTER) be entitled to that security when the country is bankrupt.
    ??     It was mentioned on another thread that the Government is borrowing €10k a year for every teacher to keep salaries as they are.

    It is nuts. And hard to believe that a Government is ACTUALLY that stupid.

    That figure has been bandied about for a number of services - whether it be Teaching, HSE, Prisons, Gardaí or whatever. Figures like that can be made to fit any argument really. Don't just blame the teachers.
    Fact is, we're currently borrowing to maintain essential services (And Special Advisors....but that's another story!!)
    Wait until the end of the month when the effects of the retirements starts to hit home. People will then be up in arms again due to the 'inefficent' PS workers when in reality Staff shortages are going to have a huge effect.


    As has already pretty much been established, a 'Good Salary' is fairly person specific and dependent on an individuals circumstances. I would imagine that most people are fairly happy with their own lot and adapt accordingly.

    The problem with this country is that we always had 'Miserable', 'Fair' and 'Good' wages. Then we introduced 'Ridiculous' into the equation and the whole place went mad!!


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    #125
    CricketDude
    Closed Accounts Posts: 247 ✭✭CricketDude


    gigino wrote: »
    You still have not said what company you work for. And why would that company pay the guts of €100,000 a year ( to include bonus + vhi + employer contributions etc ) to employ someone to make the tea, clean the floor or operate the photocopier?

    And im not going to say what company i work for either.
    Also, you make your own tea, and do your own photocopying where i work.
    Dont know who cleans the floor. The building management look after it. That happens when im not there.

    What company do you work for that you have a tea maid and and a photocopy person? Nice if you can get it.


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    #126
    Freddie59
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭Freddie59


    Odysseus wrote: »
    But as people have noted for some of us the private sector pays more, so in my case my wages are not artifically high. This concept of artifically high wages may apply to some but it does not apply to me and others I know. As I said above one of my team is moving to the private sector for better money, hours and other various perks.

    No-one will dispute that there are higher salaries. But those salaries are not funded by the taxpayer. I ask again: do you think it is fair that the rest of us pay more tax in order for the government to make up the difference in your salary (e.g. what it can actually afford versus what it can afford+the money it has to borrow to make up the difference)?

    If a private sector company was in this state, there would be wage reductions and redundancies in order to bring costs into line. Something which the state, its employees, and banks appear to be immune to.


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    #127
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,365 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    How long is a piece of sting...it's the human condition to want more.

    I have just finished reading the Scarlett o Kelly book between the sheets
    anyway she reckons she earned around five thousand euro a month working as as an escort ( prostitute ) which would equate to a salarie of of one hundred thousand euro, she needed that amount to maintain her middle class life style!


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    #128
    Ginny
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 13,425 ✭✭✭✭Ginny


    ted1 wrote: »
    close the inefficent ones. Money follow patients. Make the public sector work a 40 week. 48000/35*40, so 55,000 is the real wage to compare againest private sector.
    In fairness the CSO figures only go up to 2008, before the paycuts.
    Working in the PS the front line workers are taking on more and more work, and if we can manage it, great and we do it. It's the layers of middle management that were slotted in during the boom years for crazy salaries that **** it up for everyone, and they generally cause more ****e for front line staff to deal with instead of letting them get on with the job.
    And no we don't get overtime, increments, VHI, cheque cashing days or any of the other perks that are reported in the media. We have a chuck of staff leaving on the early retirement scheme, the powers that be haven't even asked how their jobs will be shared out among the rest of us. Instead they're pushing ahead with applications for more middle management positions.
    As for not being educated? I have an excellent honours degree and a great masters too, funnily enough I'm more educated then the middle management layer.
    The crap in the PS is mostly down to poor top management and unnecessary middle management.


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    #129
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,215 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Seomra Mushie wrote: »
    Dudess wrote: »
    As said, there are professions that pay twice in the private sector what they pay in the public one.

    Yup, but there's less security in the private sector. A lot of people desire the public sector for the security rather than the pay.
    Absolutely - my dad for example. But I'm just saying it's disingenuous of the rabid anti PS folks to say the salaries are so obscenely high.


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    #130
    BrianD3
    Registered Users Posts: 8,278 ✭✭✭BrianD3


    CricketDude wrote: »
    What company do you work for that you have a tea maid and and a photocopy person? Nice if you can get it.
    He claims to work in the public sector but in fact he's just a liar and full of sh*t like most of the PS bashers on these boards. Many of them can be found in the Irish Economy and Politics forums.

    Bitter individuals who would rather whinge about someone else's pay and conditions than concentrate on improving their own terms and conditions.

    When you ask them why they didn't get a job in the PS if it's so good a variety of bullsh*t reasons are rolled out to justify their choices.

    e.g.
    "I didn't get a job in the PS because I couldn't work with a bunch of wasters"

    Also, it's amazing how some on these boards who claim to be seriously wealthy (all due to their own brilliance of course) have such time and energy to post at great length about "overpaid public servants with gold plated, gilt edged pensions"


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    #131
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,215 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    "I wouldn't want to work with a bunch of wasters" - lol, that sh1t is comedy gold! :pac:
    Sure, they wouldn't like to work in the sector they're so jealous of... ;)

    I worked in the public sector - tbh, I have preferred jobs in the private sector. It's not all utopia - but then, people who know the least about it are the ones who spout out that stuff...


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    #132
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,635 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    token101 wrote: »
    What a disgusting comment. Better off on the dole eh? Sure that's the job isn't it? Free money and all. Sure you can't beat that. Only thing is, I and thousands, have worked and still do work and live reasonably comfortably on minimum wage. Not a luxurious lifestyle, but work's work. Massive costs eh? Where I live you can get a monthly bus pass that'll get you anywhere at anytime for 60 quid. If you earn 1500 a month thats about 4% of your wages.

    But by your logic, everybody on less than 400 quid a week might aswell quit their job and just go back to bed, after they get their entitlements of course. Not worth the effort of working. But then that's going to push the tax up for people earning more, meaning it'll eventually be not worth their while turning up to work either. So eventually we'll get to a system, like we currently have where people quit decent jobs because they get more money for doing nothing. That's an abhorrent situation. Maybe we should cut the dole and then maybe it'll be worth the time? And maybe when we cut the dole, people earning less will pay less tax, meaning more people might feel it's worth their while to get out of bed and turn up for work.

    Once fuel hits E2, a lot more people will HAVE to quit their jobs and go on the dole.
    It's not only how much you earn, it's your outgoings.
    Any salary can be made decent if we get rid of one huge expense.
    The car.
    At least the Greens can be happy, I hope they'll fiddle while this country slides into the abyss.
    Once you have a house, a car and a family with one income, you have to earn E50k minimum, otherwise it's just a joke and not worth it.


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    #133
    Odysseus
    Registered Users Posts: 6,754 ✭✭✭Odysseus


    Freddie59 wrote: »
    No-one will dispute that there are higher salaries. But those salaries are not funded by the taxpayer. I ask again: do you think it is fair that the rest of us pay more tax in order for the government to make up the difference in your salary (e.g. what it can actually afford versus what it can afford+the money it has to borrow to make up the difference)?

    If a private sector company was in this state, there would be wage reductions and redundancies in order to bring costs into line. Something which the state, its employees, and banks appear to be immune to.

    If you want this state to supply the service I supply you will have to pay me what I considered to be a fee that my services is worth. As I can earn more in the private sector than I currently do, what do you think I should work for? 75% of what I can earn in the private sector, 50%? Less

    The thing is the state is not a private company and state services cannot be run like a private company, do you think people are going to continue to work for less and less than private sector. Unless you pay people a wage that is in line with their qualifications and profession you will be left with no service.

    I don't claim to have the answers to the current problem, however, I do know that each time my wages has been reduced the thought of moving over to the private sector becomes a tad more appealing. This is the last thing I desire but I have to live too. Wait until March or April when the effects of the mast exdous starts to be felt, keep cutting peoples wages and more will leave. People must be mad to think that those of us who can switch to the private sector are going to keep on working for less and less, when we can earn more in the private sector.

    People need to stop with their generalisations of artifically high wages, how can my HSE wage be artifically high when I can earn more in the private sector? I turn way offers of work on a regular basis [3 in the past year], all private and all pay more than the HSE.


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    #134
    BrianD3
    Registered Users Posts: 8,278 ✭✭✭BrianD3


    Dudess wrote: »
    "I wouldn't want to work with a bunch of wasters" - lol, that sh1t is comedy gold! :pac:
    Sure, they wouldn't like to work in the sector they're so jealous of... ;)
    Other excuses include:
    "I didn't join the PS because I'm ambitious and intelligent"

    In other words, not only is the PS massively overpaid but it's also the public service's/other people's fault that they didn't join as it is for unambitious and stupid people

    A bit like me having a go at, say, dentists for being overpaid and when asked why I'm not a dentist say something like:
    "Well I wouldn't want to waste my intellect on pulling teeth"


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    #135
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,215 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    So the PS is full of thickos? They should fit right in so.


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    #136
    CricketDude
    Closed Accounts Posts: 247 ✭✭CricketDude


    mariaalice wrote: »
    How long is a piece of sting...it's the human condition to want more.

    I have just finished reading the Scarlett o Kelly book between the sheets
    anyway she reckons she earned around five thousand euro a month working as as an escort ( prostitute ) which would equate to a salarie of of one hundred thousand euro, she needed that amount to maintain her middle class life style!


    And its the Irish condition to want to pull anyone you perceive to be doing better than you down, instead of working towards your own goals.


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    #137
    treborflynn
    Registered Users Posts: 105 ✭✭treborflynn


    I reckon even 350 a week isnt bad if the job is handy. i was doin a job for a shower of slave drivers for that tho and it was pure madness.


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    #138
    woodoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,219 ✭✭✭woodoo


    BrianD3 wrote: »
    He claims to work in the public sector but in fact he's just a liar and full of sh*t like most of the PS bashers on these boards. Many of them can be found in the Irish Economy and Politics forums.

    Bitter individuals who would rather whinge about someone else's pay and conditions than concentrate on improving their own terms and conditions.

    When you ask them why they didn't get a job in the PS if it's so good a variety of bullsh*t reasons are rolled out to justify their choices.

    e.g.
    "I didn't get a job in the PS because I couldn't work with a bunch of wasters"

    Also, it's amazing how some on these boards who claim to be seriously wealthy (all due to their own brilliance of course) have such time and energy to post at great length about "overpaid public servants with gold plated, gilt edged pensions"

    Absolutely there is a few individuals who complain non stop about the PS. I can just picture them reading their bible the Sunday Independant and tut tuting their Sunday away. :D


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    #139
    Freddie59
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭Freddie59


    Odysseus wrote: »
    The thing is the state is not a private company and state services cannot be run like a private company, do you think people are going to continue to work for less and less than private sector. Unless you pay people a wage that is in line with their qualifications and profession you will be left with no service.

    1. It appeared to be OK for the past few years for the Public Sector wage to outstrip the Private Sector wage. Why not the other way round?

    2. Deine 'in line with their qualifications'. In Germany the max a consultant earns is €96 PA. Here? Average €250k PA, with some earning in excess of €500k. And that continues on down the line.

    The reason we have an €18Bn deficit is precisely BECAUSE the public sector is not run like the private sector: efficiently and with a basis in fiscal reality.
    Odysseus wrote: »
    I don't claim to have the answers to the current problem, however, I do know that each time my wages has been reduced the thought of moving over to the private sector becomes a tad more appealing. This is the last thing I desire but I have to live too. Wait until March or April when the effects of the mast exdous starts to be felt, keep cutting peoples wages and more will leave. People must be mad to think that those of us who can switch to the private sector are going to keep on working for less and less, when we can earn more in the private sector.

    People need to stop with their generalisations of artifically high wages, how can my HSE wage be artifically high when I can earn more in the private sector? I turn way offers of work on a regular basis [3 in the past year], all private and all pay more than the HSE.

    Artificially high is what they are kept at. Not some myth. One day that 400m being borrowed every week will come to a halt. And it's approaching fast.


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    #140
    Freddie59
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭Freddie59


    woodoo wrote: »
    Absolutely there is a few individuals who complain non stop about the PS. I can just picture them reading their bible the Sunday Independant and tut tuting their Sunday away. :D

    Wonderful contribution.:rolleyes:


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    #141
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,635 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    I don't get that "Oh we're really poor us civil servants"
    I know at least three German social workers who came over here, because they would earn more than double of what they can earn in Germany.
    And Germany might look a tad cheaper if you're just in the supermarket on holidays, but the amount of taxes and charges over there is staggering.
    And one of my German friends went back again, he could not hack the attitude and work practices, saying it was too 19th century. Plush Irish politics did his head in.
    He earns half now and is happier.


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    #142
    krudler
    Registered Users Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    is anyone else confused by which sector "PS" is referring to? they both have the same initials!


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    #143
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,635 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    krudler wrote: »
    is anyone else confused by which sector "PS" is referring to? they both have the same initials!

    +1


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    #144
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,647 ✭ [Deleted User]


    A good salary would be above 50k before taxes for me. I am only a student at the moment so earning very little.


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    #145
    gigino
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,350 ✭✭✭gigino


    CricketDude wrote: »
    I work in a place where we have better terms than the public sector.
    27 days hols with an extra day for each year of service. (plus good Friday and the days at christmas as bonus days)
    35 hour working week.
    Paid overtime.
    Noone in the company on less than 75k
    VHI
    Bonus
    8% of salary paid into pension whether you contribute yourself or not.
    €350 a month towards mortgage or rent every month on top of your salary.

    And I havent seen a year yet where we didnt get a pay rise of less than 5%.

    I doubt there is a company in the country like that. What sane company would pay its lowest paid employee - say for the sake of argument the 19 year old secretary - the guts of 100,000 a year ( 75k plus bonus + vhi + pension contribution etc )?

    As long as they are not squandering taxpayers money they can do what they want, but I doubt any company would pay its lowest paid employee that.

    Average public sector wages in the UK are 21.5k a year stg....and plenty of people over there complain about that average being so high.
    Maybe your "company" is some government quango, criketdude?


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    #146
    woodoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,219 ✭✭✭woodoo


    krudler wrote: »
    is anyone else confused by which sector "PS" is referring to? they both have the same initials!

    The private sector also go by the acronym HTT or Holier Than Thou if you prefer the long version.


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    #147
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,635 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    gigino wrote: »
    I doubt there is a company in the country like that. What sane company would pay its lowest paid employee - say for the sake of argument the 19 year old secretary - the guts of 100,000 a year ( 75k plus bonus + vhi + pension contribution etc )?

    As long as they are not squandering taxpayers money they can do what they want, but I doubt any company would pay its lowest paid employee that.

    Average public sector wages in the UK are 21.5k a year stg....and plenty of people over there complain about that.

    It's certainly exactly like no company I ever worked for!
    39 hours in our place and half the workforce (who where there for years) fired to be replaced with cheaper workers who barely get better than E10/hour.
    Break times are not paid for anymore, but MUST be taken, so I'm working from 8 to 5.
    Holidays, 20 days (i.e absolute minimum), the daily threats to our jobs on the noticeboard have ceased since the Union threatened the boss, but otherwise it's work like a dog and get abuse.


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    #148
    Yahew
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,491 ✭✭✭Yahew


    CricketDude wrote: »
    If your friend can command a higher salary then it should be easy for him to move to somewhere who will pay him whats required to keep him. Obviously 39k is all he can command, so thats what it takes to keep him in his current job.


    AS opposed to your company where the lowest earner earns €100K including benefits, and are all worth it?

    You should tell us where it is so more people can apply, then people can move on from €39k.


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    #149
    fat__tony
    Registered Users Posts: 587 ✭✭✭fat__tony


    Yahew wrote: »
    AS opposed to your company where the lowest earner earns €100K including benefits, and are all worth it?

    You should tell us where it is so more people can apply, then people can move on from €39k.

    He's talking complete ****, sketchy on the details throughout.

    You won't get a straight answer out of him.


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    #150
    CricketDude
    Closed Accounts Posts: 247 ✭✭CricketDude


    gigino wrote: »
    You still have not said what company you work for. And why would that company pay the guts of €100,000 a year ( to include bonus + vhi + employer contributions etc ) to employ someone to make the tea, clean the floor or operate the photocopier?

    And im not going to say what company i work for either.
    Also, you make your own tea, and do your own photocopying where i work.
    Dont know who cleans the floor. The building management look after it. That happens when im not there.

    What company do you work for that you have a tea maid and photocopy person? Nice if you can get it.



    And then a few pages later you come back and a come up with the very same rubbish - AGAIN.
    gigino wrote: »
    I doubt there is a company in the country like that. What sane company would pay its lowest paid employee - say for the sake of argument the 19 year old secretary - the guts of 100,000 a year ( 75k plus bonus + vhi + pension contribution etc )?

    As long as they are not squandering taxpayers money they can do what they want, but I doubt any company would pay its lowest paid employee that.

    Average public sector wages in the UK are 21.5k a year stg....and plenty of people over there complain about that average being so high.
    Maybe your "company" is some government quango, criketdude?

    Didnt I answer you the first time. Or do you think after being slapped down that you can come back a few pages later from another angle.

    I dont have a secretary. There is a shared receptionist ,supplied by the building management. I dont know what she gets paid, but she is not paid by my company. She is paid by the company that owns the building. As is cleaning, maintenance, facilities, even the guys who lay the carpets.

    And, AGAIN, I work in a normal private sector company. Nothing at all to do with the government, public sector, banking or whatever other sh1te you accuse me of next.

    And there are thousands of companies like that. Just because you dont work in one, doesnt mean they dont exist. Put your mind to it, and you might even work in some in the future.

    Well would you look at this. In the last few posts, the prize begrudgers all come together - to tell someone that no way could they be better off than them, because how dare anybody be in a better place than them. Well that was unexpected wasnt it.


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    #151
    Yahew
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,491 ✭✭✭Yahew


    CricketDude wrote: »
    And there are thousands of companies like that. Just because you dont work in one, doesnt mean they dont exist. Put your mind to it, and you might even work in some in the future.

    I think the reason people don't believe you is simple. There is no way there are thousands of companies which pay no one less than a wage of €75k + €20k benefits in the private sector in the Irish Republic, if there were the average private sector salary would be much higher than €30k ish it is.

    Extraordinary claims need extraordinary proof. Claiming you work in a "normal" company which isn't " the government, public sector, banking" which has that average wage is a big old claim. Obviously people would call you up on it. You have provided no proof, or no "slap downs" either. We are no closer to knowing where you work, or even in what sector you work in ( except that it isn't government of banking), and there is no such sector in Ireland.


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