Would you prefer to speak Irish?

3DataModem

Doc Ruby wrote: »

, where else do you get to call money "silver"? .

France. And plenty of others.

Doc Ruby

3DataModem wrote: »

France. And plenty of others.

Fair play to them, I see they learned from the best.

SafeSurfer

The promotion of the Irish language and of the central role of the Catholic church were defining principles of the founders of the state in an attempt to promote an exclusive national identity.

This in and of itself may have been a noble strategy in differentiating Irish culture from that of our dominant neighbour.

However the policy became vindictive and small minded. Anything uncatholic or ungaelic were deemed unirish and undesirable. This was completely at odds with the role played by Irish people who would not identify with the new states narrow definition of Irishness,who had played a vital role in the fight for Irish freedom and the preservation of Irish culture and language.

Petty policies like preserving many state jobs for those fluent in Irish, the ban on divorce, making a pass in Irish a condition for entry to state universities and indeed for passing both the Inter cert and Leaving cert were contrary to the spirit of multiculturalism for which many fighting for an Irish republic had wanted.

It is testament to the success of the proponents of an Ireland that was Gaelic and catholic that both are still held as being synonymous with being Irish to this day.

Take for example the surprise that Ireland had a cricket team recently or the debate on non Gaelic games being played at Croke Park.

The politicization of the Irish language continues. The new terminal at Dublin airport has signs in English and Irish, not French not German. Is this practical? The same goes for Dublin bus with An Lar.

Official government documents and EU documents must be published in both Irish and English. Is this necessary? Or is it merely providing employment for a Gaelgori elite? The number of requests for EU legislation including the Nice and Lisbon treaties in Irish form would suggest that it is a waste of resources.

Irish is a sacred cow in this country but I would argue that it is a sacred cow that produces no milk and we can no longer afford to feed.

Seomra Mushie

Cú Giobach wrote: »

. Since I already stated "The link wasn't to show what bi-lingualism is" why have you repeated a statement about knowing what it is?

Yup, you said you linked it to show bilingualism was widespread... another very obvious fact that didn't require a link.

Doc Ruby

SafeSurfer wrote: »

The promotion of the Irish language and of the central role of the Catholic church were defining principles of the founders of the state in an attempt to promote an exclusive national identity.

This in and of itself may have been a noble strategy in differentiating Irish culture from that of our dominant neighbour.

However the policy became vindictive and small minded. Anything uncatholic or ungaelic were deemed unirish and undesirable. This was completely at odds with the role played by Irish people who would not identify with the new states narrow definition of Irishness,who had played a vital role in the fight for Irish freedom and the preservation of Irish culture and language.

Petty policies like preserving many state jobs for those fluent in Irish, the ban on divorce, making a pass in Irish a condition for entry to state universities and indeed for passing both the Inter cert and Leaving cert were contrary to the spirit of multiculturalism for which many fighting for an Irish republic had wanted.

It is testament to the success of the proponents of an Ireland that was Gaelic and catholic that both are still held as being synonymous with being Irish to this day.

Take for example the surprise that Ireland had a cricket team recently or the debate on non Gaelic games being played at Croke Park.

The politicization of the Irish language continues. The new terminal at Dublin airport has signs in English and Irish, not French not German. Is this practical? The same goes for Dublin bus with An Lar.

Official government documents and EU documents must be published in both Irish and English. Is this necessary? Or is it merely providing employment for a Gaelgori elite? The number of requests for EU legislation including the Nice and Lisbon treaties in Irish form would suggest that it is a waste of resources.

Irish is a sacred cow in this country but I would argue that it is a sacred cow that produces no milk and we can no longer afford to feed.

This is a new one, an "Irish language"="Catholic Church" troll.

SafeSurfer

Doc Ruby wrote: »

This is a new one, an "Irish language"="Catholic Church" troll.

You are misquoting me. The fact that Catholicism and the Irish language were promoted after independence is hardly a new idea.



http://gombeennation.blogspot.com/2011/09/making-of-gaelic-catholic-state.html

http://multitext.ucc.ie/d/Irish_Ireland

http://www.humanrights.ie/index.php/2011/11/11/book-review-fischer-on-education-and-religion-in-ireland/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGrNf2RXmfk

Doc Ruby

SafeSurfer wrote: »

You are misquoting me. The fact that Catholicism and the Irish language were promoted after independence is hardly a new idea.

I'm not denying that, what I'm saying is there is no reason to bring the Catholic church and its entirely unsavoury effect on this country into the thread unless you were trying to make out the two were equivalent in some manner.

Which is a bit reprehensible I'm sure most would agree.

Eathrin

In the last two years of school (Doing LC) I've really stepped up my Irish and now speak just about fluently. Sadly, even from such a position I can expect to gradually lose that as there's no opportunity to actually practically use the language in this country!

Cú Giobach

Seomra Mushie wrote: »

Yup, you said you linked it to show bilingualism was widespread... another very obvious fact that didn't require a link.

You must be very new here to say that.
Or are you one of those people who naively believes that just because they know something, that everybody else automatically knows it too?

SafeSurfer

Doc Ruby wrote: »

I'm not denying that, what I'm saying is there is no reason to bring the Catholic church and its entirely unsavoury effect on this country into the thread unless you were trying to make out the two were equivalent in some manner.

Which is a bit reprehensible I'm sure most would agree.

My point is that they were both used as tools of exclusion. That somehow if you were catholic and Irish speaking you were somehow more Irish than a non catholic non Irish speaker. I think this is relevant in the context of the Ireland we live in today.

MGHOW

Anyone who chose 'English with Irish as a second language' is a sheep beyond redemption.

The English language is the most depraved language man has ever devised (ex: live = evil, lived = devil) and it's enforcement onto the Irish people has been the single largest factor in sealing our doomed faith.

It has promoted television addiction in our people, behavior modification which leads to severe mental dysfunction; which paves the way for a tailor made society for psychopaths.

At this advanced stage in the agenda, in the Anglosphere it's almost like 'become a sociopath or be crushed.'

Doc Ruby

SafeSurfer wrote: »

My point is that they were both used as tools of exclusion. That somehow if you were catholic and Irish speaking you were somehow more Irish than a non catholic non Irish speaker. I think this is relevant in the context of the Ireland we live in today.

I would view endeavours to promote the national language as being well intentioned, especially since the previous yokes in charge had done their level best to murder the language over the course of centuries in the name of their own profit. Maybe the government of the time didn't use the best methods to achieve that growth in the language, but still.

Equating that to a group who had not only actively colluded with the English in their efforts to occupy the country but then leapt in opportunistically to get a foothold in a weak young state is, I would say, reprehensible.

In what way is it relevant to today? The church is finished.

later12

MGHOW wrote: »

Anyone who chose 'English with Irish as a second language' is a sheep beyond redemption.

The English language is the most depraved language man has ever devised (ex: live = evil, lived = devil) and it's enforcement onto the Irish people has been the single largest factor in sealing our doomed faith.

It has promoted television addiction in our people, behavior modification which leads to severe mental dysfunction; which paves the way for a tailor made society for psychopaths.

At this advanced stage in the agenda, in the Anglosphere it's almost like 'become a sociopath or be crushed.'

...................lol

SafeSurfer

MGHOW wrote: »

Anyone who chose 'English with Irish as a second language' is a sheep beyond redemption.

The English language is the most depraved language man has ever devised (ex: live = evil, lived = devil) and it's enforcement onto the Irish people has been the single largest factor in sealing our doomed faith.

It has promoted television addiction in our people, behavior modification which leads to severe mental dysfunction; which paves the way for a tailor made society for psychopaths.

At this advanced stage in the agenda, in the Anglosphere it's almost like 'become a sociopath or be crushed.'

I see you are a person of principle and would never use the evil language yourself.

Mike 1972

Doc Ruby wrote: »

This is a new one, an "Irish language"="Catholic Church" troll.

A language where one of the first phrases most people learn is "God and Mary be with you" ?

Doc Ruby

Mike 1972 wrote: »

A language where one of the first phrases most people learn is "God and Mary be with you" ?

Note the difference between that and "Pope and Bishop be with you".

Mike 1972

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Irish is the most awesome language on earth, where else do you get to call money "silver"?

French ?

The Dutch and Germans go one better and call it "Gold"

Now if you had a language which called it "Coke n' Hookers" you might be on to something :pac:

Doc Ruby

Mike 1972 wrote: »

French ?

The Dutch and Germans go one better and call it "Gold"

Now if you had a language which called it "Coke n' Hookers" you might be on to something :pac:

Its a little known fact, but Napoleon, Charlemagne, Caesar and Jesus H Christ were all Irishmen. The latter in particular was well known for his skills with the bodhran around the campfire of a night.

MGHOW

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I see you are a person of principle and would never use the evil language yourself.

I was reared with this language, it wasn't a personal choice. Besides, as long as you refrain from certain influences (TV/MOVIES/MAINSTREAM MEDIA) you'll be fine. Most people are utterly possessed by these influences, which is where the problems arise.

In fact, you can still view such poisonous influences without becoming mentally contaminated, as long as they don't have the desired affect on you in making you become emotionally attached to them. To do this you must view carefully with an entirely skeptical mindset towards each and every aspect, this should be applied to everything you ever read/see/hear.

SafeSurfer

MGHOW wrote: »

I was reared with this language, it wasn't a personal choice. Besides, as long as you refrain from certain influences (TV/MOVIES/MAINSTREAM MEDIA) you'll be fine. Most people are utterly possessed by these influences, which is where the problems arise.

In fact, you can still view such poisonous influences without becoming mentally contaminated, as long as they don't have the desired affect on you in making you become emotionally attached to them. To do this you must view carefully with an entirely skeptical mindset towards each and every aspect, this should be applied to everything you ever read/see/hear.

And you say english is your first language....

Eathrin

Mike 1972 wrote: »

French ?

The Dutch and Germans go one better and call it "Gold"

Now if you had a language which called it "Coke n' Hookers" you might be on to something :pac:

Beats Americans and their "books"

Paz-CCFC

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Obtaining employment in various heavily subsidised non-jobs which the state can no longer never could afford ?

Do you care to expand on your point or just leave it as a simple one liner with no substance?

Mike 1972 wrote: »

A language where one of the first phrases most people learn is "God and Mary be with you" ?

And by the same logic, English is also in the same boat, seeing as the phrase most commonly used when people part company stems from a contraction of "God be with you"?

gigino

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I wish we didn't waste money forcing a dead language down people's throats. If you want to speak Irish, pay for lessons with your own money in your own time.

well said.

the poll questions are biased

why is there no option for speaking English and not speaking Irish as a second language ?

how about speaking English , with German or French or Mandarin as a second language ?

Precious flower

I think it's a pity we can't speak our own language. Even if its popularity improves over the generations we will never have the situation where the majority have Irish has a first language. I think if we learned it speak our own language we would be much more eager to learn other languages as we would not have in ingrained in our minds that learning another lanuage would be unpleasant. It's only now I realise that Irish has a musical quality when spoken that English does not. When I hear my relatives in Connemara speak Irish, I'm envious I can't converse back to them in Irish. It's funny how it is only recently since I've left secondary school and the language has stopped being forced on me that I've become extremely interested in it. I watch TG4 far more now than I ever did during my leaving cert (which would be none at all!):p

Noreen1

Noreen1 wrote: »

??? Thousands of people in the Gaeltachts are fluent in both!
I can't see why the rest of the Country would be any different.

You could also say the same for several European countries that have "minority" languages Holland & Iceland being but two places where most of the population is bi-lingual, the "home" language and one foreign, usually English.

They never have any problems, nor do they have issues with international business.

Please Kill Me

Nope, wouldn't interest me at all. Like Latin, it's a dead language. Why resurrect it? Let it be.

Corkfeen

MGHOW wrote: »

Anyone who chose 'English with Irish as a second language' is a sheep beyond redemption.

The English language is the most depraved language man has ever devised (ex: live = evil, lived = devil) and it's enforcement onto the Irish people has been the single largest factor in sealing our doomed faith.

It has promoted television addiction in our people, behavior modification which leads to severe mental dysfunction; which paves the way for a tailor made society for psychopaths.

At this advanced stage in the agenda, in the Anglosphere it's almost like 'become a sociopath or be crushed.'

At first, I thought you were just being sarcastic. So, I naturally decided to look over your posting history to confirm that this was so. But previous history indicates that you actually believe what you're saying..... You don't get out alot, do you? I guess you wouldn't though because the world's full of english speaking psychopaths.... I sincerely hope that you're a troll.

starlit

No, hard enough to learn in school though I like the language personally prefer to speak English and have Irish as second Language optional that is. Rather have foreign languages ephatised for good measure in school! Wasn't great at german but ok at french and good at italian. Never learnt spanish though except reading it in my own time... linguistics in english all the way!

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

MGHOW wrote: »

Anyone who chose 'English with Irish as a second language' is a sheep beyond redemption.

The English language is the most depraved language man has ever devised (ex: live = evil, lived = devil) and it's enforcement onto the Irish people has been the single largest factor in sealing our doomed faith.

It has promoted television addiction in our people, behavior modification which leads to severe mental dysfunction; which paves the way for a tailor made society for psychopaths.

At this advanced stage in the agenda, in the Anglosphere it's almost like 'become a sociopath or be crushed.'

The language is a tool and it's the people who are using it that perform the horrendous attrocities you list above. In the last few weeks, I've see "our doomed fate" attributed to homosexual marraige, the fact that we hit our children, the European Central Bank, the fact that we don't hit our children hard enough, the Daily Mail and now the English langauge. Seems to be the modus operandi* of the pissed-off at the moment. "I know! I'll say it's all the fault of this think that I hate! And peopel will think I know what I'm talkign about! Yes!"

As regards the sheep bit, I assume you normally use that line for people who simply disagree with you, or can you elaborate on it?


*Bit of Latin for you there. Lovely languuage, now THERE'S a language I'd love to be able to speak if I was going for an unpractical langauge and no one ever used it to invade country or forced it on poeople...

Doc Ruby

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

now THERE'S a language I'd love to be able to speak if I was going for an unpractical langauge and no one ever used it to invade country or forced it on poeople...!)

Err...