Would you prefer to speak Irish?

Wibbs

Precious flower wrote: »

I think it's a pity we can't speak our own language.

This pretty much sums up the argument for me. "its a pity we can't speak our own language'. A contradiction in terms if ever one needed an example. If we can't speak it(and the majority can't) how is it our language anymore?

For me it is a pity the opportunity was lost to better promote it. IMHO it was lost when what had become a small cultural expression within the wider Irish culture was imposed on that wider culture with a side order of cultural guilt attached. Hence people claiming to support it, even speak it can have barely a cupla focal. It didn't have a cultural resonance, or enough of one for most outside the native speaking areas. For many that did, it was used as a political tool or cultural/social oneupmanship.

If they'd supported it in the areas where it was naturally strong and promoted voluntary schemes for those from the wider culture who wished to learn it I'm pretty sure it would have been better off for the language. Certainly the poor children of Peig, reading about some maudlin harridan who lost 20 kids in childbirth wouldn't have hated or dismissed the language to the degree they did and do.

Lord TSC

The truth is that if Irish was the country's first language in reality, we wouldn't have to keep having these topics where it is argued whether it is or not. If it was the first language, boards.ie would be in Irish with only an English section up the top of AH. If it was the first and main language, people wouldn't have to come into topics like this shouting about how it is, and people who don't think so are not "Irish" enough....

DyldeBrill

Wibbs wrote: »

This pretty much sums up the argument for me. "its a pity we can't speak our own language'. A contradiction in terms if ever one needed an example. If we can't speak it(and the majority can't) how is it our language anymore?

For me it is a pity the opportunity was lost to better promote it. IMHO it was lost when what had become a small cultural expression within the wider Irish culture was imposed on that wider culture with a side order of cultural guilt attached. Hence people claiming to support it, even speak it can have barely a cupla focal. It didn't have a cultural resonance, or enough of one for most outside the native speaking areas. For many that did, it was used as a political tool or cultural/social oneupmanship.

If they'd supported it in the areas where it was naturally strong and promoted voluntary schemes for those from the wider culture who wished to learn it I'm pretty sure it would have been better off for the language. Certainly the poor children of Peig, reading about some maudlin harridan who lost 20 kids in childbirth wouldn't have hated or dismissed the language to the degree they did and do.

What people fail to realise is that the Irish language is actually growing in this country and its not in decline.The problem with the language is that there is not enough funding going into it.The British government put more money into the Irish language than the government we have here.....which is an absolute disgrace! As well as that, it is not taught properly in schools.It bores the ****e out of students, and in the end, they don't get a proper grasp of the language.

Recently a few schemes have been put together which seemed to have worked, especially in Dublin with acting workshops been made available to kids through Irish.More of this needs to happen to people can be taught it in a fun way.

Peig is dying out, new books have come into play like Dúnmharú ar an Dairt, which is a great book! Lets see what happens.

DyldeBrill

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

The truth is that if Irish was the country's first language in reality, we wouldn't have to keep having these topics where it is argued whether it is or not. If it was the first language, boards.ie would be in Irish with only an English section up the top of AH. If it was the first and main language, people wouldn't have to come into topics like this shouting about how it is, and people who don't think so are not "Irish" enough....

The Irish language is not our 1st language that's true, but that's not the point of discussion to this thread. "Would you prefer to speak Irish?" that is the question, where the majority have answered that they would prefer to speak Irish.

Sleepy

I've no interest in having Irish at all.

Would love to have been able to spend the 14 years of my education focusing on French, German, Spanish, Portuguese or any of the major EU languages. TBH, I'd have preferred Latin to Irish. Sure, they're both dead languages but whilst Latin gave birth to quite a few other languages and could be useful in the learning of those, the attempt at re-introducing Irish has just given us self-congratulatory, often intolerably smug sub-set of the middle-class who consider it their right to force their interest on schoolchildren instead of providing them with an education.

Wibbs

DyldeBrill wrote: »

What people fail to realise is that the Irish language is actually growing in this country and its not in decline.

It's growing from a major slump in popularity in the 60/70's. That's good, but it remains to be seen how far that growth will go in everyday life outside of education.

The problem with the language is that there is not enough funding going into it.

You are joking right?

The British government put more money into the Irish language than the government we have here.....which is an absolute disgrace!

Eh wut? I would love to see that incredible claim backed up with equally incredible evidence. Links or GTFO as they used to say a lot more hereabouts in the past. The only links I can find of UK government investment into the Irish language is this one where 20 million sterling(around 24 million Euros) was made available. TG4 alone according to this report got 36 million Euro annually. Then add in the investment in education, translation, the various Gaelthacht areas etc since the foundation of this state of ours. So faced with those billions over time and your claim looks... well pretty unbelievable if not a little daft.

As well as that, it is not taught properly in schools.It bores the ****e out of students, and in the end, they don't get a proper grasp of the language.

Recently a few schemes have been put together which seemed to have worked, especially in Dublin with acting workshops been made available to kids through Irish.More of this needs to happen to people can be taught it in a fun way.

Peig is dying out, new books have come into play like Dúnmharú ar an Dairt, which is a great book! Lets see what happens.

Well one would hope given we've had several generations since the foundation of the state be educated in the language yet the numbers speaking it now are significantly lower than when they started.

DyldeBrill wrote: »

The Irish language is not our 1st language that's true, but that's not the point of discussion to this thread. "Would you prefer to speak Irish?" that is the question, where the majority have answered that they would prefer to speak Irish.

Yet so few do? Does not compute. Back to the imposition of the language and the cultural guilt that has people saying they'd love to speak it, yet few make much of attempt to do so.

hondasam

Paparazzo wrote: »

Either you're lazy, or you dont really believe what you wrote. Because there's nothing stopping you learning Irish.

I'm not lazy, I never said there was anything stopping me learning it.
While I obviously learnt Irish in school I cannot speak it fluently.

DyldeBrill

Sleepy wrote: »

I've no interest in having Irish at all.

Would love to have been able to spend the 14 years of my education focusing on French, German, Spanish, Portuguese or any of the major EU languages. TBH, I'd have preferred Latin to Irish. Sure, they're both dead languages but whilst Latin gave birth to quite a few other languages and could be useful in the learning of those, the attempt at re-introducing Irish has just given us self-congratulatory, often intolerably smug sub-set of the middle-class who consider it their right to force their interest on schoolchildren instead of providing them with an education.

That's fair enough...YOU have no interest in learning the language but that does not mean that its a dead language.As I've pointed out already, the language is growing.Having Irish can prove very helpful, especially when coming to terms with some of our history.It is not explained in English but can be easily explained in Irish.Examples of this can be given.

Yes French, German etc are all major languages but if you really wanted to learn those languages then you would have done it out of your own interest.You would be speaking them now, so please don't give me that.You have highlighted your ignorance, fair enough if you do not wish to learn the language, but do not call it a dead language when it's obviously not!

deise go deo

English is my first language, but I speak Irish fairly well.

Why is there no Bilingual option?

Kirby

DyldeBrill wrote: »

That's fair enough...YOU have no interest in learning the language but that does not mean that its a dead language.As I've pointed out already, the language is growing.

The language is not growing. You might wish it was, but it isn't. It's a dying language. We don't export it to other countries. Nobody outside Ireland speaks it and unlike alot of other european countries with their own language.......the vast majority of the population can't even speak it at a good enough level to hold a conversation. To state otherwise is just refusing to see reality.

Personally I think it's a shame but thats the reality of the situation.

Wibbs

Or English as a first language, no desire to learn Irish but glad others do so long as it doesn't become a money pit to support that. OK might not fit on the page...

Paparazzo

hondasam wrote: »

I'm not lazy, I never said there was anything stopping me learning it.
While I obviously learnt Irish in school I cannot speak it fluently.

Why aren't you out learning it then? You said:

hondasam wrote: »

Yes I would love to be able to speak Irish.

Stark

DyldeBrill wrote: »

The problem with the language is that there is not enough funding going into it.

There are 19 state bodies dedicated to keeping this "vibrant living language" on life support.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0118/breaking71.html

SafeSurfer

The amount of money the state has invested in trying to preserve the Irish language is huge.
Not just the 36 million for TG4 but also for Radio na Gaeltachta. Add to this the costs of state quangos that deal with preserving Gaeltacht areas like Udarus and the language

Forbairt Naíonraí Teoranta

Foras grant 2011: €1,015,217.

Comhdháil Náisiúnta na Gaeilge Foras grant 2011: €650,409 Gaelscoileanna Teo

Foras grant 2011: €461,184

Conradh na Gaeilge Foras grant 2011: €541,911 .

Not to mention the grants and special subsidies for Gaeltacht areas. Is double dole still available?

The 72,000 people who speak the language on a daily basis must be the most highly subsidised group in the state.

Irish dancing is part of our culture. If I want to learn it I take lessons in it at my own expense and in my own time. The surest way to preserve the language long term would be to make learning it a source of pride rather than a chore.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0119/1224310448583.html

bigdaddyliamo

I have a strong grasp of Irish as I, like many others, had all my schooling through the language. Once I got over my teenage self and realized not everything I had done up to that point was crap I developed a greater appreciation of Irish as a beautiful soulful living entity. It would be great if everybody could speak it, but they can't. It would be great if everybody could learn it, but they can't be bothered.So what do we do?
My tuppence would suggest we scrap all written exams in Irish and replace them with purely spoken Irish exams for the next 20/30 years so as to get the population to a comfortable level of ability in the spoken word and this,may, start to remove the stigma of Irish that so many people seem to still have as an impediment.

Stark

Kirby wrote: »

The language is not growing. You might wish it was, but it isn't. It's a dying language. We don't export it to other countries. Nobody outside Ireland speaks it and unlike alot of other european countries with their own language.......the vast majority of the population can't even speak it at a good enough level to hold a conversation. To state otherwise is just refusing to see reality.

My experience is even in the Gaeltacht areas they barely speak it. Have been on holidays with a friend of ours who's a fluent Irish speaker who tried using it everywhere she went there only to get blank looks from people in shops and pubs who said they only spoke English. I think it's a beautiful language and I'd like to speak it regularly but it's simply not in active usage.

DyldeBrill

It's growing from a major slump in popularity in the 60/70's. That's good, but it remains to be seen how far that growth will go in everyday life outside of education.

What did you think I was talking about....Irish within the school system?Nope ! It's growing within and outside the school system, and not only in the Gaeltacht regions.Projects like Béal na nGael have been put forth encouraging people to speak "an cúpla focal" .

You are joking right?

no...you are joking? How can you say that there is enough funding going into the Irish language...please do tell.The fact that Foinse has to close down, a major Irish Newspaper, due to lack of investment says something surely? The same story with Lá Nua.

The link that you send me there was a brief alt from the Irish Times...doesn't really say much.We studied it in a lecture last year in NUIG.I have just asked my lecturer to send on the information and links to me, so I will post that here the minute I get them and I can pm them to you also.I apologise for not having them on me right now, but will surprise you!.

The language is not growing. You might wish it was, but it isn't. It's a dying language. We don't export it to other countries. Nobody outside Ireland speaks it and unlike alot of other european countries with their own language.......the vast majority of the population can't even speak it at a good enough level to hold a conversation. To state otherwise is just refusing to see reality.

Personally I think it's a shame but thats the reality of the situation.

You do not know what your talking about.Some of the people have given good arguments and have tried to back up their points but please show me your evidence.

Nobody outside Ireland speaks it

Really? this is why there has been new Gaeltachts set up in Germany, Australia and Canada? People with no Irish roots attend because they want to learn the language, so your wrong in saying nobody outside Ireland speaks it.I can't help but get annoyed when seeing a comment like this, because you are making it clear to all that you have no idea what your talking about.Frustrating to say the least

DyldeBrill

bigdaddyliamo wrote: »

I have a strong grasp of Irish as I, like many others, had all my schooling through the language. Once I got over my teenage self and realized not everything I had done up to that point was crap I developed a greater appreciation of Irish as a beautiful soulful living entity. It would be great if everybody could speak it, but they can't. It would be great if everybody could learn it, but they can't be bothered.So what do we do?
My tuppence would suggest we scrap all written exams in Irish and replace them with purely spoken Irish exams for the next 20/30 years so as to get the population to a comfortable level of ability in the spoken word and this,may, start to remove the stigma of Irish that so many people seem to still have as an impediment.

no truer word said!

SafeSurfer

DyldeBrill wrote: »

.
no...you are joking? How can you say that there is enough funding going into the Irish language...please do tell.The fact that Foinse has to close down, a major Irish Newspaper, due to lack of investment says something surely? The same story with Lá Nua.

Maybe they are closing down not because of lack of funding but because not enough people want to read Irish language papers.

DyldeBrill

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Maybe they are closing down not because of lack of funding but because not enough people want to read Irish language papers.

that is also a factor of course! but its the lack of money that they were originally given that hindered their chances, especially their funds for advertisement.Luckily we can still get it!

Jimmy Iovine

DyldeBrill wrote: »

Peig is dying out, new books have come into play like Dúnmharú ar an Dairt, which is a great book! Lets see what happens.

Dúnmharú is a fantastic book. Very well written and the Irish is easy enough to understand but at the same time you'll learn something from it.

Nothingbetter2d

we do business in english, we subscribe to english speaking channels, and watch english soccer, we have many family members in other english speaking countries, most of our tourists speak english to some level,

Irish is a dead language imo... Just like Latin, sure some people like to speak it but it costs alot of money to translate everything into irihs just so about 10% of the population that speak irish are happy... that same money could be better spent on more worthwhile things such as better education services for people with learning difficulties.

Kirby

DyldeBrill wrote: »

Really? this is why there has been new Gaeltachts set up in Germany, Australia and Canada? People with no Irish roots attend because they want to learn the language, so your wrong in saying nobody outside Ireland speaks it.I can't help but get annoyed when seeing a comment like this, because you are making it clear to all that you have no idea what your talking about.Frustrating to say the least

A few thousand people who use Irish as their primary language in a world of over six billion people is clearly the sign of a language in decline. You cite how Gaeltachts in other countries as proof the language is growing. We don't even speak it in our own country, never mind in places like Germany.

You clearly love the Irish language. More power to you. I think it's a shame that nobody speaks it. But your emotional attatchment to the subject is blinding you to the obvious.

bigdaddyliamo

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Maybe they are closing down not because of lack of funding but because not enough people want to read Irish language papers.

This, fundamentally, is this problem. A) not Enough funding and, b) Not enough people want to can read Irish language papers

Like all things in life the answer is not straight forward.[Grow Irish organically and it will flourish. We know the ram method has not, does not and will not ever work.].

DyldeBrill

Kirby wrote: »

A few thousand people who use Irish as their primary language in a world of over six billion people is clearly the sign of a language in decline. You cite how Gaeltachts in other countries as proof the language is growing. We don't even speak it in our own country, never mind in places like Germany.

You clearly love the Irish language. More power to you. I think it's a shame that nobody speaks it. But your emotional attatchment to the subject is blinding you to the obvious.

I don't think there's any point in going any further with my points.Yes you are right I do love the Irish language, I am 21 years old who was not brought up speaking Irish, luckily that changed when I travelled around a bit.All I'm defending is that the language is not dead...I have seen both sides to this abroad and here in Ireland, so you can surely understand where my frustration comes from.

nobody speaks it

.....I give up!

Kirby

I was using the term "nobody" in a general sense. You seem to be using it as a stick to beat me with so I will rephrase. Very, very, very, very few people speak it as their primary language. Happy?

Paz-CCFC

Kirby wrote: »

The language is not growing. You might wish it was, but it isn't. It's a dying language. We don't export it to other countries. Nobody outside Ireland speaks it and unlike alot of other european countries with their own language.......the vast majority of the population can't even speak it at a good enough level to hold a conversation. To state otherwise is just refusing to see reality.

Personally I think it's a shame but thats the reality of the situation.

The amount of Irish speakers has grown census-on-census since 1946. Perhaps not all the speakers are fluent, but they possess some level of Irish, which shows that the language is growing somewhat. If it were dying, then this amount would be falling. If it were dead, then this amount would be zero.

Kirby wrote: »

A few thousand people who use Irish as their primary language in a world of over six billion people is clearly the sign of a language in decline.

What's the sign of a growing language, so?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Paz-CCFC wrote: »

The amount of Irish speakers has grown census-on-census since 1946. Perhaps not all the speakers are fluent, but they possess some level of Irish, which shows that the language is growing somewhat. If it were dying, then this amount would be falling. If it were dead, then this amount would be zero.

The amount of people who THINK they can sepak Irish has grown. As has the amount of catholics.

DyldeBrill

Kirby wrote: »

I was using the term "nobody" in a general sense. You seem to be using it as a stick to beat me with so I will rephrase. Very, very, very, very few people speak it as their primary language. Happy?

I'm not using it as a stick to beat you, but surely you must understand where I'm coming from after hearing your views.We'll agree to disagree as this is obviously going no where

Paz-CCFC

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

The amount of people who THINK they can sepak Irish has grown. As has the amount of catholics.

Well, yes, the nature of the census information is hugely at the discretion of whomever fills it out. Do you have any figures to suggest that those who claim, on the cesnsus, that they have some ability to speak/understand Irish actually don't?