Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Would you prefer to speak Irish?

Options
12467…16

Comments

  • Options
    #92
    token101
    Registered Users Posts: 3,050 ✭✭✭token101


    Dostoevsky wrote: »
    I've often been in a room with 100 graduates and all of us could speak Irish. We could also speak excellent English, but we chose to speak Irish because that's how we prefer to express ourselves.

    Were you doing Irish as a course or part of your course? If you took 100 average 3rd level graduates, business, IT, arts, most wouldn't be able to hold a conversation in Irish. Saying otherwise is a fallacy. I used to think I could speak a reasonable level of Irish until I picked up a Times supplement and realised I only understood every third word or so. I'd say most are similar.


  • Options
    #93
    later12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,299 ✭✭✭✭later12


    We are the only English speaking country in the Eurozone. I don't think we fully appreciate the importance of this as a selling point for the R&D and financial services industries.

    I know the OP didn't want to swell on commercial aspects, but I think it is a significant matter.


  • Options
    #94
    4zn76tysfajdxp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,944 ✭✭✭✭4zn76tysfajdxp


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    Like trying to explain faith to an atheist.

    Or atheism to philologos.


  • Options
    #95
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users Posts: 44,080 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    philologos wrote: »
    I don't know if that is true. It is possible for an atheist to become a Christian.

    It should be possible for you to convince me as to why I should be proud of something I have no control over. I'm a reasonable person for the most part :)


    To be honest and in the nicest possible way I don't care enough to try and convince anyone how they should feel about the land where they come from. Every person for themselves. I'll love you no matter what you believe :D


  • Options
    #96
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    philologos wrote: »
    It should be possible for you to convince me as to why I should be proud of something I have no control over. I'm a reasonable person for the most part :)

    So, you couldn't be proud of a sibling graduating from university, because it is something you personally have no control over, or no input into?

    Pride isn't something defined by a strict set of rules. It is an emotion. And it starts with appreciation. Someone can appreciate the culture of the country that they were born in, grew up in. A country that has a magical array of folklore dating back centuries, music and dance. So - Can someone be proud of their country and it's culture? Absolutely. But it isn't the same pride as you might have for something you have personally achieved, such as graduating. But it's pride nonetheless.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #97
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,418 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    philologos wrote: »

    I don't think the analogy of Ireland as my parents is applicable. Ireland's a place where I have lived. It has its pros and it has its cons.

    Yes but you did not choose your parents, it was our of you hands as you said but it has not stopped you been proud of them.
    If you have lived in Ireland you should have got to know lots about the country and feel some loyalty and pride for it.
    I know not everyone sees things in the same way but personally I'm fierce loyal to my country.


  • Options
    #98
    later12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,299 ✭✭✭✭later12


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    Thats a real German way of looking at things.

    If I were born in Botswana or Sri Lanka I would be proud of my heritage and the people who came before me.
    Totally. Absurd.

    This is a regressive, irrational mentality that belongs in the dark ages. How on Earth can you feel proud about an accident of geography or of genetics?


  • Options
    #99
    token101
    Registered Users Posts: 3,050 ✭✭✭token101


    hondasam wrote: »
    How many countries have you visited? what languages can you speak?
    Irish is not just spoken in remote parts of the country.

    Most of Europe, bit of US. I can speak a little Irish and a little French (wouldn't confidently hold a full blown conversation in either). Your point?

    I have never entered a shop in any city or big town in Ireland and been greeted in Irish. Never in my 25 years. It's only ever happened to me in Cape Clear, Inverin and Ring. They are all relatively remote.


  • Options
    #100
    4zn76tysfajdxp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,944 ✭✭✭✭4zn76tysfajdxp


    philologos wrote: »
    I don't understand why I should be proud of being born where I was born, that was out of my hands.
    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    Thats a real German way of looking at things.

    I'm proud to be a German.


  • Options
    #101
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    hondasam: I've explained to you about why I feel the way I do about my parents. It is for the most part due to what I have learned about my parents that makes it rather easy for me to respect them. It's not quite the same thing as patriotism would be.

    I just don't understand there's a sense that people must be loyal to the country that they were born in, or why people must have some kind of deep connection to everything. I like Ireland as a place, and many friends of mine naturally are there but I don't know how I could say anything more about it.

    dlofnep: I don't know why I should be specifically proud of my nationality though. There's little ways that Ireland has no doubt had an overwhelming impact upon me, but it is when I go beyond saying that I think Ireland's a good enough country to claiming that I have some pride for it that I find a little bit uneasy. That's probably just me, I'm not a fan of patriotism of any kind, it's a turn off. Many of the Irish forms of patriotism can be quite dogmatic too.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #102
    later12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,299 ✭✭✭✭later12


    dlofnep wrote: »
    So, you couldn't be proud of a sibling graduating from university, because it is something you personally have no control over, or no input into?
    One can have an input into a sibling's success.

    A better analogy would be feeling pride in your parents for having graduated if it occurred independently of your birth or existence, which would be a little illogical indeed.

    Admiration is another thing, but pride?


  • Options
    #103
    Seachmall
    Registered Users Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    hondasam wrote: »
    Yes but you did not choose your parents, it was our of you hands as you said but it has not stopped you been proud of them.
    If you have lived in Ireland you should have got to know lots about the country and feel some loyalty and pride for it.
    I know not everyone sees things in the same way but personally I'm fierce loyal to my country.

    But your loyalty to your parents doesn't come from the simple chance of your conception. It comes from the fact they raised and provided for you.

    There are plenty of people who would prefer to have little to do with their parents because their parents constantly failed them or worse.

    Likewise your loyalty to your country shouldn't be based on the simple chance of your birth here, but what it has provided, or can provide, for you.


  • Options
    #104
    Agricola
    Registered Users Posts: 6,547 ✭✭✭Agricola


    Seachmall wrote: »
    I am proud to be Irish. Partly because of the reason above (I was born here) and partly because Ireland has, and does, maintain a great presence in the technological world, contributes quite a bit to peacekeeping missions overseas and numerous other reasons.

    That is a very clinical, German, way to look at it though!

    For me, and probably most people, pride in your country is related to the fact that the country encompasses all of your native culture. The population in the country share a common language, common traits, a common religion, (that is changing, but for another debate) common pasttimes, common sporting interests, etc etc. When several million people have all these shared values and experiences, of course its going to breed pride in the one thing that we all have in common, we are all from the same country, in our case this island.


  • Options
    #105
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users Posts: 44,080 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    later10 wrote: »
    Totally. Absurd.

    This is a regressive, irrational mentality that belongs in the dark ages. How on Earth can you feel proud about an accident of geography or of genetics?


    In your opinion.

    I will watch the upcoming 6N and hope my country men do better then the other countries we compete against. I hope the land where I live becomes a better place to live again, mainly because I live here.

    Will you support your country in the upcoming fuzz ball tournament?


  • Options
    #106
    SafeSurfer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,421 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    Dostoevsky wrote: »
    I've often been in a room with 100 graduates and all of us could speak Irish. We could also speak excellent English, but we chose to speak Irish because that's how we prefer to express ourselves.


    The annual general meeting of the Irish Speaking Graduates Association hardly counts.

    Your assertion that higher levels of education correlate with higher levels of Irish speaking wouln't have anything to do with the compulsory nature of Irish in our education system would it?

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Options
    #107
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Absolutely. But it isn't the same pride as you might have for something you have personally achieved, such as graduating. But it's pride nonetheless.

    A lot of what I have personally achieved is out of my own hands as well. Getting a degree, you could say is only applying what intelligence I've been given. Life is essentially about making the most of what you've been given, a whole swathe of things are out of your hands, even sometimes right down to what you have an aptitude for.

    I'm thankful for what I have been given, but I praise the ultimate Creator rather than the created.


  • Options
    #108
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,418 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    In your opinion.

    I will watch the upcoming 6N and hope my country men do better then the other countries we compete against. I hope the land where I live becomes a better place to live again, mainly because I live here.

    Will you support your country in the upcoming fuzz ball tournament?

    I know nothing about Rugby but I will want them to win because it's our team and I want them to do well.
    same with the fuzz ball and any other sport we compete in.

    good luck lads.


  • Options
    #109
    Mr. Rager
    Registered Users Posts: 1,958 ✭✭✭Mr. Rager


    Yes, definitely. I'm shít it now, but I still make an attempt.


  • Options
    #110
    later12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,299 ✭✭✭✭later12


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »

    Will you support your country in the upcoming fuzz ball tournament?
    The only country I have is a few acres of unsaleable bogland. Laying claim on an entire island is quite out of my reach, I'm afraid.

    As far as I'm concerned, citizenship is a tax and services transaction. I have no interest in supporting an Irish sports team simply on account of the fact that we were all born within the same tribal jurisdiction, no. I'll watch the rugby, but if Ireland win I certainly won'ttake any pride in their success - it has nothing to do with me.


  • Options
    #111
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    later10 wrote: »
    One can have an input into a sibling's success.

    You're evading the point. Assuming you have no input into a sibling's success in academia, are you asserting that you cannot be proud of them? The general argument against pride in one's country is the 'accident of birth', or 'you had no input into it' argument. Well, you being a sibling of some other is simply an accident of birth. You could have been anyone else's brother or sister. But because you grow up with them, you grow a sense of loyalty towards them - so that when they succeed, you share the sentiment of pride in them.

    Pride is an emotion. You can't police the thoughts and emotions of people - we are not robots. Pride in one's nation is perfectly natural, and there is nothing irrational about it. That is why thousands of people come out to watch their country play in a myriad of sporting events, and why they all share a sentiment of pride when they perform well.

    So I'm not saying that there is an onus on anyone to have pride in their country, there is nothing fundamentally irrational about it - providing of course, you understand that it's not the same type of pride one has in themselves.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #112
    later12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,299 ✭✭✭✭later12


    dlofnep wrote: »
    You're evading the point. Assuming you have no input into a sibling's success in academia, are you asserting that you cannot be proud of them?
    You can take pleasure at their success, but if you had zero input into it, then you cannot be proud of their achievment in the strict sense of the word, no. Being proud of a person (presumably, being related to a person) is in itself even more bizarre than national pride.


  • Options
    #113
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    philologos wrote: »
    I'm thankful for what I have been given, but I praise the ultimate Creator rather than the created.

    Your parents?


  • Options
    #114
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,418 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    later10 wrote: »
    The only country I have is a few acres of unsaleable bogland. Laying claim on an entire island is quite out of my reach, I'm afraid.

    As far as I'm concerned, citizenship is a tax and services transaction. I have no interest in supporting an Irish sports team simply on account of the fact that we were all born within the same tribal jurisdiction, no. I'll watch the rugby, but if Ireland win I certainly won'ttake any pride in their success - it has nothing to do with me.

    Why watch it then? I don't understand this tbh.


  • Options
    #115
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Nobody is suggesting policing everyone's emotions. That's what a lot of patriots do to those who don't have the same degree of patriotism as they do as well in all fairness.

    I think the world would be a better place in some ways if people weren't so patriotic, but I could be wrong. All I can do is simply say that I don't really understand patriotism. Having said that I've found my nationality to be a much more important component of my identity since I've moved here.
    dlofnep wrote: »
    Your parents?
    God, as far as I can tell. Fulfilling a biological process isn't quite the same thing as actually forming the individual.


  • Options
    #116
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    later10 wrote: »
    You can take pleasure at their success, but if you had zero input into it, then you cannot be proud of their achievment in the strict sense of the word, no. Being proud of a person (presumably, being related to a person is in itself even more bizarre).

    No? Alright - that's that sorted then. Nobody can have pride in their sibling because later10 has said so. Next topic.


  • Options
    #117
    Seachmall
    Registered Users Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    Agricola wrote: »
    That is a very clinical, German, way to look at it though!

    For me, and probably most people, pride in your country is related to the fact that the country encompasses all of your native culture. The population in the country share a common language, common traits, a common religion, (that is changing, but for another debate) common pasttimes, common sporting interests, etc etc. When several million people have all these shared values and experiences, of course its going to breed pride in the one thing that we all have in common, we are all from the same country, in our case this island.

    The culture isn't absolutely important though. I suspect I'd have the same pride in Ireland if we all spoke Irish as I do now, when we all speak English.

    I much prefer "American music" over Irish music, I don't share religion with most Irish nor do I participate in Irish sports. These things which make up culture are irrelevant to me.

    The important parts of Ireland to me, and the ones I would rather base my pride on, are the ones that provide me with what other people in other countries don't have. Being Irish means I have a great platform from which to enter an industry I love (technology), it provides me with great resources in terms of education and communication, it does it's best to ensure I will never be desperate for the necessities in life (food, water, shelter etc.) and for the most part it reflects more morals when it comes to national (laws) and international levels (neutral in wars etc.).

    The Irish culture as most people mean it (history, language, music, traditions, etc.) means very little to me. It's what the country provides for me and 5 million others that make me proud to be a citizen here.


  • Options
    #118
    later12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,299 ✭✭✭✭later12


    dlofnep wrote: »
    No? Alright - that's that sorted then. Nobody can have pride in their sibling because later10 has said so. Next topic.
    Exactly. That is exactly what I suggest, a ban on pride. There is no rolleyes big enough to describe the leaps in logic you seem to execute so well.


  • Options
    #119
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Agricola: The common religion argument never existed in Ireland. There were always people who were non-Catholics around. Most of the other things you've listed are pretty much dependant on the individual.


  • Options
    #120
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users Posts: 44,080 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    later10 wrote: »
    The only country I have is a few acres of unsaleable bogland. Laying claim on an entire island is quite out of my reach, I'm afraid.

    As far as I'm concerned, citizenship is a tax and services transaction. I have no interest in supporting an Irish sports team simply on account of the fact that we were all born within the same tribal jurisdiction, no. I'll watch the rugby, but if Ireland win I certainly won'ttake any pride in their success - it has nothing to do with me.


    Again I don't mind what you believe. More power to you.

    I do have an imput into Irish rugby by being a supportor and player of the game. Without people like me Irish rugby would not exist. Same applies to all sport.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #121
    later12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,299 ✭✭✭✭later12


    hondasam wrote: »
    Why watch it then? I don't understand this tbh.
    Because I like the sport, I like watching people perform a set of skills that I admire. The exact same reason why I willenjoy the Scotland England match.

    I find it a little tragic that someone would suggest the need to feel a tribal bond to enjoy or admire a sporting fixture.


Advertisement