beef price tracker

Water John

Butcher on the news said, since the lockdown, their sale of choice roast cuts had doubled.

memorystick

In times gone by, the likes of Goodman and his kind would have been shot and their houses burned down.

Duke92

Sure it’s pay back really for the foolish protests that went on last year

leoch

Was i not thinking the same

ruwithme

There will be better times ahead lads.

ppn

farawaygrass wrote: »

I went two evenings to a protests and at the time I thought fair play to ye. I think there was good men and women involved but the whole thing got out of control, with the tail wagging the dog. I have since changed my view and thought was a mess the whole thing was. First thing that annoyed me was they took shots at everyone and anyone, ifj, Ifa, bord bia. They should have picked their battles better. I’m not pro or anti any farm organisation by the way. Secondly, sending that letter to English’s beef customers saying Irish beef wasn’t truly grass fed-what were they thinking?
It had the potential to be something brilliant but the agms were the final nail in the coffin. How could you let them represent you with all the infighting.

Wasn't that ridiculous letter sent by unofficial BeefPlan though? Seems like there is a small cohort in BPM that have become hungry for power, with ego's to match and I'm not talking about the original founders, who seem to be actually trying to do something rather than sniping, etc.

Duke92

Official or unofficial there just so stupid no wonder things are so bad

Good loser

mf240 wrote: »

The factorys have been riding farmers for the last 50 years. Nothing to do with any group.

The only thing left for farmers to do is simply not produce beef cattle.

Don't you understand that the price of cattle is determined by market forces?
Supply and demand? Factories reflect these forces in their quotes which fluctuate from day to day.
Have you never heard the expression 'cattle are scarce'?
No factory was responsible for the daft store prices of Jan and Feb 2020.

Conspiracy theories are the product of weak minds and unsound reasoning.
Such theories (in general) arise from the mistaken theory that, whatever happens in society - especially happenings such as war, unemployment,poverty, shortages, which people as a rule dislike - is the result of direct design by some powerful individuals or groups. (In the Middle Ages and earlier the Gods were blamed.)


FYI the price of cheese in Chicago dropped 40% in the last fortnight.
Butter fell 30% ($1,000 per tonne) in 10 days.
Demand for mozzarella has plunged 50%.

Base price

manjou wrote: »

Haven't read the article but bit of a coincidence that at the same time abp are trying to justify polish beef imports the editor of farmers journal trys to lay blame of beef price on protests. Remember the second round of protests where farmers led . The only thing the processors fear is farmer unity because if irish farmers all joined together they might achieve something. Ad for polish beef it's comming in by the container load.

You mean the fellas who were selling their weanlings/stores in the marts whilst stopping their neighbours bringing beef and lamb to the factories - feckin conts.

wrangler

ppn wrote: »

Wasn't that ridiculous letter sent by unofficial BeefPlan though? Seems like there is a small cohort in BPM that have become hungry for power, with ego's to match and I'm not talking about the original founders, who seem to be actually trying to do something rather than sniping, etc.

They don't need to send letters, the Beef plan forum on Facebook allows the badmouthing of Irish beef ad infinitum and I can assure you Beef Plan never lets the truth get in the way of a good story.
With reference to the local BP mouth here I was told ''you wouldn't believe the radio in his jeep'' !!!!!!!!!

I was looking at stakes I got from him last year and there isn't a hope that they'll last forty years , the cracks at the staples are going the full length of the stake.

declanflynn

Good loser wrote: »

Don't you understand that the price of cattle is determined by market forces?
Supply and demand? Factories reflect these forces in their quotes which fluctuate from day to day.
Have you never heard the expression 'cattle are scarce'?
No factory was responsible for the daft store prices of Jan and Feb 2020.

Conspiracy theories are the product of weak minds and unsound reasoning.
Such theories (in general) arise from the mistaken theory that, whatever happens in society - especially happenings such as war, unemployment,poverty, shortages, which people as a rule dislike - is the result of direct design by some powerful individuals or groups. (In the Middle Ages and earlier the Gods were blamed.)


FYI the price of cheese in Chicago dropped 40% in the last fortnight.
Butter fell 30% ($1,000 per tonne) in 10 days.
Demand for mozzarella has plunged 50%.

Why dont we reduce supply?

wrangler

Good loser wrote: »

Conspiracy theories are the product of weak minds and unsound reasoning.
Such theories (in general) arise from the mistaken theory that, whatever happens in society - especially happenings such as war, unemployment,poverty, shortages, which people as a rule dislike - is the result of direct design by some powerful individuals or groups. (In the Middle Ages and earlier the Gods were blamed.).

Good explanation of Beef plan.
Conspiracy theories with no evidence to support ,
Thanfully most have moved on from middle ages

declanflynn

wrangler wrote: »

Good explanation of Beef plan.
Conspiracy theories with no evidence to support ,
Thanfully most have moved on from middle ages

Why dont we reduce supply?

Gary kk

declanflynn wrote: »

Why dont we reduce supply?

I guess trying to keep stock numbers right for the dept. Having no money and having to take whats given. Age of the cattle.

Hard Knocks

declanflynn wrote: »

Why dont we reduce supply?

It’s not so simple
The number of suckler herd is reducing and should level at 500-600,000 by 2022
Our Dairy herd has increased from 800,000 to 1.3m
On top of this to control the market there is allot of beef imported and processed here

Duke92

Jjameson wrote: »

The history of this is interesting. It has quite a bit to do with the demographics of family farms in that the brightest boys either went abroad to work or became priests.
Leaving mentally deficient men who had been conditioned to farm from a young age. Tongue in cheek of course!

The taxation system has a lot of us on a hamster wheel but aside from that it’s just belligerent pride or fear of change that is stopping a widespread move to more extensive farming. The answer to bad prices is never increased production from more inputs and this penny needs to drop.

I’m presume you mean the farmers in the west
A lot would be great I’ll agree but not all
They want to get the same wage as the guy milking 200 cows in southeast some joke
They should just leave it as a carbon sink over there

Hard Knocks

Duke92 wrote: »

I’m presume you mean the farmers in the west
A lot would be great I’ll agree but not all
They want to get the same wage as the guy milking 200 cows in southeast some joke
They should just leave it as a carbon sink over there

Emm
If they got the same wage as someone milking 30 cows, it’d be an improvement

Neddyusa

Hard Knocks wrote: »

It’s not so simple
The number of suckler herd is reducing and should level at 500-600,000 by 2022
Our Dairy herd has increased from 800,000 to 1.3m
On top of this to control the market there is allot of beef imported and processed here

Ah but you're making the fatal assumption there that beef farming is profitable....
For the farmer it actually is as simple as Declan suggests: produce less of a loss-making product - and you'll lose less money.

wrangler

declanflynn wrote: »

Why dont we reduce supply?

Human nature I suppose, as soon as there'd be any optimism in the trade everyone would ramp up production again

manjou

Base price wrote: »

You mean the fellas who were selling their weanlings/stores in the marts whilst stopping their neighbours bringing beef and lamb to the factories - feckin conts.

True in one way but on other hand if all 70000 odd beef farmers had of been together on this it may have been different. In the end a lack of unity as much as factory power caused it to go the way it did.

Panch18

Hard Knocks wrote: »

It’s not so simple
The number of suckler herd is reducing and should level at 500-600,000 by 2022
Our Dairy herd has increased from 800,000 to 1.3m
On top of this to control the market there is allot of beef imported and processed here

As far as I remember the dairy herd was never at 800k. Certainly since joining the EEC it has never been under a million. In fact we have the same number of dairy cows today as in 1975

It’s the suckler herd that ramped up dramatically with the introduction of the suckler premia in the 90’s which saw the number of suckler cows more than double in the space of 10 years or so

Panch18

manjou wrote: »

True in one way but on other hand if all 70000 odd beef farmers had of been together on this it may have been different. In the end a lack of unity as much as factory power caused it to go the way it did.

How exactly did a lack of unity effect anything?? They seemed to think they were going to bend Larry over a barrel and get 4 euro for standing outside his gates for a few days. Fact is you could still be outside his gate and he wouldn’t be paying 4 euro. Naive in the extreme

Panch18

Hard Knocks wrote: »

Emm
If they got the same wage as someone milking 30 cows, it’d be an improvement

It seems to me that some beef farmers expect to be able to make a living from 50 acres with 30 sucklers on it

It’s about time they woke up to reality that those days will never happen again NEVER

If you are a beef farmer it’s pretty simple. You should be aiming for 200 profit per acre. If you can’t achieve that on a regular basis you probably shouldn’t be farming, or farming at any level other than hobby

From your 200 an acre it’s Then it’s an acres game. If you have enough acres you can do it full time, depending on your income needs depends on how many acres you need. Maximise all cheques in the post.
If you haven’t enough acres then you can’t do it full time. It’s that simple

But if you are losing money then you need to sharpen up dramatically or get out

Neddyusa

Panch18 wrote: »

It seems to me that some beef farmers expect to be able to make a living from 50 acres with 30 sucklers on it

It’s about time they woke up to reality that those days will never happen again NEVER

If you are a beef farmer it’s pretty simple. You should be aiming for 200 profit per acre. If you can’t achieve that on a regular basis you probably shouldn’t be farming, or farming at any level other than hobby

From your 200 an acre it’s Then it’s an acres game. If you have enough acres you can do it full time, depending on your income needs depends on how many acres you need. Maximise all cheques in the post.
If you haven’t enough acres then you can’t do it full time. It’s that simple

But if you are losing money then you need to sharpen up dramatically or get out

There are no beef farmers out there making €200/acre profit.
Not mathematically possible with beef at e4.50/kg not to mind e3.30 or whatever it is now.

If they think they are making that "profit" there's two possibilities:

1. They are counting subsidies, income from other enterprises or (worse again) off-farm income as income from "beef farming"

And/Or

2. They are not including their full costs of production:
The ones usually left out are labour, capital, buildings and machinery - and God forbid you put a price on it - land.

Panch18

Neddyusa wrote: »

There are no beef farmers out there making €200/acre profit.
Not mathematically possible with beef at e4.50/kg not to mind e3.30 or whatever it is now.

If they think they are making that "profit" there's two possibilities:

1. They are counting subsidies, income from other enterprises or (worse again) off-farm income as income from "beef farming"

And/Or

2. They are not including their full costs of production:
The ones usually left out are labour, capital, buildings and machinery - and God forbid you put a price on it - land.

Then fellas need to get out or have it as a hobby

Panch18

Jjameson wrote: »

Farming is now essentially the haves and the have nots! Inheritance, spousal inheritance or income, independent income, large holdings and large sfp and menial living expenses, pensions.. for a sizeable proportion of beef farmers beef price will never have them on the breadline. I agree with all the above and if I was given the benefit of hindsight I would not have bothered my hole going to shake my fist at Larry.

It’s the same for dairy farmers as well

Doubling their number of cows to stay as they were. Loads of money invested and double the work. But no better off

Same with tillage. 250 acres is small tillage now

Chickens pigs etc

Beef is the only area where the small guy is in the majority still. But they should look to the small dairy farmers of 10 years ago. The smart ones got out

wrangler

Panch18 wrote: »

Then fellas need to get out or have it as a hobby

When I had 50 sucklers to beef and 250 ewes an eminent consultant(not teagasc) told me it wasn't a full time occupation ........ at the time I thought I was killed working

Panch18

wrangler wrote: »

When I had 50 sucklers to beef and 250 ewes an eminent consultant(not teagasc) told me it wasn't a full time occupation ........ at the time I thought I was killed working

Unfortunately there is little correlation between work and income when it comes to beef

The best muscle you can use in beef is your brain. It’s only a game of ducking and diving nowadays. If you’re sharp and smart you can make a few quid. If not you won’t.

Neddyusa

Panch18 wrote: »

Then fellas need to get out or have it as a hobby

Fully agree.

The bit of your first post I took issue with was the suggestion that "bad" beef farmers were losing money and the "better" beef farmers were making money.

I have a problem with that idea - promoted by IFJ , Teagasc etc - that somehow doing everything by the textbook would make the beef farmer a nice profit.
It wouldn't - and never would - unless beef remained consistently > €5/kg.
But the notion that beef is profitable - as promoted by various vested interests - is what has a lot of very good beef farmers wondering what's wrong with them, that they can't make what "the lad in the paper" is making.

Panch18

Neddyusa wrote: »

Fully agree.

The bit of your first post I took issue with was the suggestion that "bad" beef farmers were losing money and the "better" beef farmers were making money.

I have a problem with that idea - promoted by IFJ , Teagasc etc - that somehow doing everything by the textbook would make the beef farmer a nice profit.
It wouldn't - and never would - unless beef remained consistently > €5/kg.
But the notion that beef is profitable - as promoted by various vested interests - is what has a lot of very good beef farmers wondering what's wrong with them, that they can't make what "the lad in the paper" is making.

Sorry bad post from me. I’m not classing the guy who is producing per the teagasc text book as the good farmer, I didn’t make that clear at all from my post.

I agree 100% with you. Teagasc on the beef side have driven fellas demented thinking they could and should be like the fellas in the journal. Beef farmers have been sold an even bigger pup by teagasc than their dairy counterparts