Grueller wrote: » Couldn't agree more re the kids. If they have a gra for it they will come back to it in some way. If not so be it.
Bass Reeves wrote: » Two things look a the losses on the 2-3 demonstration farms and the workload involved. If you have children make sure they are educsted, and do a good college course ( there is a lot of rubbish ones)or a trade. Finally as a lot of farmers wl not stand together it time to look after oneself for a while. Im a while a lot of lads will realize that it's like as Seamus Mallon said of the GF agreement ''its Sunningdale for slow learner's''
Albert Johnson wrote: » I used to follow the mantra of expansion and efficiency when I first started out at sucklers. No matter what went wrong it was always because I hadn't worked hard enough or smart enough and there was always room for improvement and further investment. I could never catch up to the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow promised by the likes of the state advisors, the Journal ect. It took me years to realize most of what I was being sold was no more than a pipe dream. I'm not saying that any industry can stagnate and there's always an opportunity to refine and improve. However there has to be a fair reward for effort expended and it has never been present in the broader beef game in my lifetime. There's a line from a Slim Dusty song about the demise of the Australian small farmer that "You can work all day for no return at all", this echoes the situation many Irish beef farmer's are in currently imo. The processors continually change the rules of the game mid play and all your hard work can be wiped out with a single change in specification. I'm by no means a model farmer but I do believe I should receive fair reward for an in demand product that I produce to the best of my abilities. The current way of working seems to enable the processors to screw as much out of me as possible while still allowing me to continue trading. Mean while the power's that be create countless additional jobs off the back of my industry while refusing to face the elephant in the room, namely the complete lack of profitability for those not lucky enough to be any thing apart from a beef farmer. I have no doubt beef farming is only a disease and indeed a burden both financially and mentally to a lot of those involved if the truth was known. I'd love to be able to proffer a solution to any of the problems above but there doesn't seem to be any appetite to change the status quo as it works for almost everyone apart from the beef producer. It baffles me that an industry could accept it's own demise with so little resistance over the year's but I suppose it's a real life death by 1,000 cuts. As whether there's sufficient time or interest to reverse this fate I remain hopeful but not that optimistic.
mf240 wrote: » Lads won't like this but in 2009 I had fifteen sucklers alongside the dairy cows. I didn't put them in calf that year and took them to the factory. Never sorry
Jjameson wrote: » With excellent facilities and a bit of help at key periods maybe not but for most of us having to get by with baler twine and me myself and Irene the whole year 10 years of this ****e is making an old men of a young ones. A 40 hour week is considered a full time job for most of the population.
Hard Knocks wrote: » It’s not so simple The number of suckler herd is reducing and should level at 500-600,000 by 2022 Our Dairy herd has increased from 800,000 to 1.3m On top of this to control the market there is allot of beef imported and processed here
Neddyusa wrote: » Fully agree. The bit of your first post I took issue with was the suggestion that "bad" beef farmers were losing money and the "better" beef farmers were making money. I have a problem with that idea - promoted by IFJ , Teagasc etc - that somehow doing everything by the textbook would make the beef farmer a nice profit. It wouldn't - and never would - unless beef remained consistently > €5/kg. But the notion that beef is profitable - as promoted by various vested interests - is what has a lot of very good beef farmers wondering what's wrong with them, that they can't make what "the lad in the paper" is making.
Panch18 wrote: » Then fellas need to get out or have it as a hobby
wrangler wrote: » When I had 50 sucklers to beef and 250 ewes an eminent consultant(not teagasc) told me it wasn't a full time occupation ........ at the time I thought I was killed working
Jjameson wrote: » Farming is now essentially the haves and the have nots! Inheritance, spousal inheritance or income, independent income, large holdings and large sfp and menial living expenses, pensions.. for a sizeable proportion of beef farmers beef price will never have them on the breadline. I agree with all the above and if I was given the benefit of hindsight I would not have bothered my hole going to shake my fist at Larry.
Neddyusa wrote: » There are no beef farmers out there making €200/acre profit. Not mathematically possible with beef at e4.50/kg not to mind e3.30 or whatever it is now. If they think they are making that "profit" there's two possibilities: 1. They are counting subsidies, income from other enterprises or (worse again) off-farm income as income from "beef farming" And/Or 2. They are not including their full costs of production: The ones usually left out are labour, capital, buildings and machinery - and God forbid you put a price on it - land.
Panch18 wrote: » It seems to me that some beef farmers expect to be able to make a living from 50 acres with 30 sucklers on it It’s about time they woke up to reality that those days will never happen again NEVER If you are a beef farmer it’s pretty simple. You should be aiming for 200 profit per acre. If you can’t achieve that on a regular basis you probably shouldn’t be farming, or farming at any level other than hobby From your 200 an acre it’s Then it’s an acres game. If you have enough acres you can do it full time, depending on your income needs depends on how many acres you need. Maximise all cheques in the post. If you haven’t enough acres then you can’t do it full time. It’s that simple But if you are losing money then you need to sharpen up dramatically or get out
Hard Knocks wrote: » Emm If they got the same wage as someone milking 30 cows, it’d be an improvement
manjou wrote: » True in one way but on other hand if all 70000 odd beef farmers had of been together on this it may have been different. In the end a lack of unity as much as factory power caused it to go the way it did.
Base price wrote: » You mean the fellas who were selling their weanlings/stores in the marts whilst stopping their neighbours bringing beef and lamb to the factories - feckin conts.
declanflynn wrote: » Why dont we reduce supply?
Duke92 wrote: » I’m presume you mean the farmers in the west A lot would be great I’ll agree but not all They want to get the same wage as the guy milking 200 cows in southeast some joke They should just leave it as a carbon sink over there
Jjameson wrote: » The history of this is interesting. It has quite a bit to do with the demographics of family farms in that the brightest boys either went abroad to work or became priests. Leaving mentally deficient men who had been conditioned to farm from a young age. Tongue in cheek of course! The taxation system has a lot of us on a hamster wheel but aside from that it’s just belligerent pride or fear of change that is stopping a widespread move to more extensive farming. The answer to bad prices is never increased production from more inputs and this penny needs to drop.
wrangler wrote: » Good explanation of Beef plan. Conspiracy theories with no evidence to support , Thanfully most have moved on from middle ages
Good loser wrote: » Conspiracy theories are the product of weak minds and unsound reasoning. Such theories (in general) arise from the mistaken theory that, whatever happens in society - especially happenings such as war, unemployment,poverty, shortages, which people as a rule dislike - is the result of direct design by some powerful individuals or groups. (In the Middle Ages and earlier the Gods were blamed.).
Good loser wrote: » Don't you understand that the price of cattle is determined by market forces? Supply and demand? Factories reflect these forces in their quotes which fluctuate from day to day. Have you never heard the expression 'cattle are scarce'? No factory was responsible for the daft store prices of Jan and Feb 2020. Conspiracy theories are the product of weak minds and unsound reasoning. Such theories (in general) arise from the mistaken theory that, whatever happens in society - especially happenings such as war, unemployment,poverty, shortages, which people as a rule dislike - is the result of direct design by some powerful individuals or groups. (In the Middle Ages and earlier the Gods were blamed.) FYI the price of cheese in Chicago dropped 40% in the last fortnight. Butter fell 30% ($1,000 per tonne) in 10 days. Demand for mozzarella has plunged 50%.
