beef price tracker

Farmer Pudsey

Marooned75 wrote: »

A well known co put on some show at tullamore yesterday with 2 bullocks there idea put in shed on 20 sept feed 10 kgs meal for 100 days should kill out about 390 kgs but they could nt give an idea on price per kg at end talk about inspiring confidence.Some return on a ton of meal in December.

What weight were the bullocks I imagine continental at about 575kgs ish. They would need on average for the 100 days 13.5kgs dry matter/day this equivalent to nearly 16kgs of ration. at 10kgs they would need 32 kgs/day of good silage (70DMD and 25%DM) so a euro a day for silage 2.4/day for ration so 340 for feeding alone throw in 50 euro for transport buying and selling fees. 25 euro in Interest (on 1500 euro for 100days) 50 euro for dosing, diesel labour etc. Total 465 euro before we throw in capital cost of sheds etc.

If the bullock cost 2.2/kg that is 1265 = 465 = 1730 so 4.45/KG to break even or 4.70 if you want 100 euro profit.

Now here is where it get interesting if you can buy him at 2/kg and shave 85 off the finishing costs to get 100 euro profit you only need 4.20/kg at Christmas. God that looks too good to be true I off to buy a few.:rolleyes:

Marooned75

One was 16 months the other 18 months the 1st should grade an r and the other a u they thought they didn't give a price at the end of the finishing period your on about shaving costs.For who you or them at today's prices you d be broke at 300 a ton it would cost 18000 to finish 60 not including purchase price

nashmach

bob charles wrote: »

I will be delighted to be proved wrong on this issue. Should that not be around 2.4% . Not bad for free worthless advice. Your commission for professional advice is probably way more:D

I did it in me head :D

On the last point :pac::rolleyes:

What are peoples thoughts on supply post Christmas at this stage?

Farmer Pudsey

Marooned75 wrote: »

One was 16 months the other 18 months the 1st should grade an r and the other a u they thought they didn't give a price at the end of the finishing period your on about shaving costs.For who you or them at today's prices you d be broke at 300 a ton it would cost 18000 to finish 60 not including purchase price

I was not allowing 300/ton rather 240/ton and allowing 1 euro/day for silage so 340 for 100 days. This is the average if you fed 10kgs even at the start he need about 12kgs silage/day however you are better to average it over the 100 days. by the time these bullocks would be 60 day on a finishing diet 10kgs of ration would only be a snack. they be hitting 14kgs/day DM at the end this is equivalent 16.5kgs of ration now you would not feed them that much but about 12 and make the rest up of straw and silage.

1chippy

Id say there will be a lot more beef than people expect.. multitudes of cull cows will start hitting the marts in the next couple of months. A lot of these will be fit after christmas and the usual rise in the few weeks after christmas might not be just there. this is based on very limited knowledge on beefing animals so i could be completly wrong..
When will the glut of 2012 dairy bred bulls be landing? Mar/April?

nashmach

1chippy wrote: »

Id say there will be a lot more beef than people expect.. multitudes of cull cows will start hitting the marts in the next couple of months. A lot of these will be fit after christmas and the usual rise in the few weeks after christmas might not be just there. this is based on very limited knowledge on beefing animals so i could be completly wrong..
When will the glut of 2012 dairy bred bulls be landing? Mar/April?

I was actually thinking the opposite to be honest.

2012 cattle are back on weight unless they have been on exceptional grass this year.

Those cull cows will be a poor trade as no one will want them until grass grows next April as they will gobble silage and you couldn't finish them inside.

Those dairy bred animals have been reduced quite a bit with the Libyan boats.

Only flaw is cereals are back quite a lot this year and so are other imported feeds such as maize and I presume soya so may pay better to turn stocker quicker in sheds.

I may be talking out of by backside - not the first time either :pac:

Farmer Pudsey

There are a lot of different elements. the 100K extra 2011 cattle are nearly gone through. The glut of 2012 dairy bulls would have to be finished and hung if finished as bulls by March next year as they would be going over 24 months.
Along with that they are about 50 kgs lighter than they would be on other years if not more.

How many are exported and those that were are the good one's mainly coloured bulls. However as many farmers are short of fodder they will either squeeze these bulls or sell at a reduced price. As ration is getting cheaper some farmers will be tempted to finish these fast. Even cows if they come at the right price may be targeted for finishing. Around Christmass might not be too bad however as you get into February expect no favours from the factory's for the rest of the year.

bob charles

huey1975 wrote: »

Still only quoted €4.15 for bullocks this week which is the same as last Friday week so I am not getting too excited

your right, as if you get too excited you wont enjoy the ride

yupyupyup

Lads anyone with any opinions on 3 year calf to beef, every time I suggest 3 year old bullocks to lads I get slaughtered, excuse the pun!
My reasons for wanting to wait to 3 year old are as follows
-We bought about 30 spring born calves and I feel we'll have to really push them hard to get them as 2 year old beef, I can't realistically see them weighing over 400kg on average at housing at 19/20 months, and even then the carcass's will be light
-We have very marginal land and we struggle to put on good liveweight gain over the summer
-Simmental bulls are my calf of choice and they grow very big, I'd rather let them do all their growing for 3 summers as opposed to feeding their growth.
-I can't realistically kill 30 bullocks off the grass as logistically its a pain in the hole moving throughs around and having the feckers poacing large areas of ground where they're fed let alone the danger of getting knocked down while feeding them.
-I'll have a cheaper meal bill killing them at 36 months, i'm thinking in my head 5kgs for a hundred days should get them fleshy enough at that age, I'll then have a larger carcass weight and more cash left over after I go out and buy 30 more calves
-Older cattle always have a better kill out, even 1% of a killout on a big bullock is worth about €30 (7.5kgX4.20)
- i'll have a cheaper fertiliser bill as well as I won't be under pressure to constantly keep 10cm under their heads!

Ok lads go on and tell me I'm talking complete bull or in this case bullocks!

nashmach

yupyupyup wrote: »

Lads anyone with any opinions on 3 year calf to beef, every time I suggest 3 year old bullocks to lads I get slaughtered, excuse the pun!
My reasons for wanting to wait to 3 year old are as follows
-We bought about 30 spring born calves and I feel we'll have to really push them hard to get them as 2 year old beef, I can't realistically see them weighing over 400kg on average at housing at 19/20 months, and even then the carcass's will be light
-We have very marginal land and we struggle to put on good liveweight gain over the summer
-Simmental bulls are my calf of choice and they grow very big, I'd rather let them do all their growing for 3 summers as opposed to feeding their growth.
-I can't realistically kill 30 bullocks off the grass as logistically its a pain in the hole moving throughs around and having the feckers poacing large areas of ground where they're fed let alone the danger of getting knocked down while feeding them.
-I'll have a cheaper meal bill killing them at 36 months, i'm thinking in my head 5kgs for a hundred days should get them fleshy enough at that age, I'll then have a larger carcass weight and more cash left over after I go out and buy 30 more calves
-Older cattle always have a better kill out, even 1% of a killout on a big bullock is worth about €30 (7.5kgX4.20)
- i'll have a cheaper fertiliser bill as well as I won't be under pressure to constantly keep 10cm under their heads!

Ok lads go on and tell me I'm talking complete bull or in this case bullocks!

I'd prefer to keep stock turning myself, I presume you are buying calves in March.

Could you not move to 30 month beef by bringing them in early and finishing by mid October?

I think your issue is mainly calf type, you might be better with some AA or HE calves and they will turn quicker.

Sorry for dismissing your post

bob charles

yupyupyup wrote: »

Lads anyone with any opinions on 3 year calf to beef, every time I suggest 3 year old bullocks to lads I get slaughtered, excuse the pun!

Yes I well interested, aslong as someone else will keep them for 2 years and 9 months before I buy them

If you had very cheap grazing/wintering commonages type system it very well may stack up. If you have to start making silage and spreading slurry from them I would find it hard to see how it could be done

yupyupyup

yeah i agree with the breed selection alright they'd come quicker. I have a gra for big continental type bullocks tho.
yeah we bought in feb and mar this year, try to buy them at least 5/6 weeks old, some were 8weeks. now admittingly I could wait til april and buy early march born calves, but to have them beef by early oct i'd need to house in early july, to me that goes against nature to take cattle off grass if its still growing, plus i wouldn't have any rougage to give them, the lads finished during the winter will be getting the pit silage along with their finishing diet.
Tbh i'm really pissed off the factories won't rise the bord bia quality assurance to 36 months, how them 6 months make a difference to them i do not know.

yupyupyup

bob charles wrote: »

Yes I well interested, aslong as someone else will keep them for 2 years and 9 months before I buy them

If you had very cheap grazing/wintering commonages type system it very well may stack up. If you have to start making silage and spreading slurry from them I would find it hard to see how it could be done

yes we have a very cheap system in place, we make our own pit silage. we keep grazing fert bills to a minimun. to me it makes the most sense for our situation. once we get into the swing of the system we'll be hanging 30 big cattle every jan and repacing them with 30 calves a month or 2 later, we'll have a huge cash flow surplus.

bob charles

yupyupyup wrote: »

we'll have a huge cash flow surplus.

That will only come every third year, and has to cover the costs of the previous two years. keeping any animal costs money

nashmach

bob charles wrote: »

That will only come every third year, and has to cover the costs of the previous two years. keeping any animal costs money

And you are basically expecting that to cover 90 animals for the year.

The sucklers lads say they can't keep two animals for one year with weanling sales, I don't see how this can be done either.

Would you be able to go down calf rearing to store and off load earlier?

Farmer Pudsey

yupyupyup wrote: »

Lads anyone with any opinions on 3 year calf to beef, every time I suggest 3 year old bullocks to lads I get slaughtered, excuse the pun!
My reasons for wanting to wait to 3 year old are as follows
-We bought about 30 spring born calves and I feel we'll have to really push them hard to get them as 2 year old beef, I can't realistically see them weighing over 400kg on average at housing at 19/20 months, and even then the carcass's will be light
-We have very marginal land and we struggle to put on good liveweight gain over the summer
-Simmental bulls are my calf of choice and they grow very big, I'd rather let them do all their growing for 3 summers as opposed to feeding their growth.
-I can't realistically kill 30 bullocks off the grass as logistically its a pain in the hole moving throughs around and having the feckers poacing large areas of ground where they're fed let alone the danger of getting knocked down while feeding them.
-I'll have a cheaper meal bill killing them at 36 months, i'm thinking in my head 5kgs for a hundred days should get them fleshy enough at that age, I'll then have a larger carcass weight and more cash left over after I go out and buy 30 more calves
-Older cattle always have a better kill out, even 1% of a killout on a big bullock is worth about €30 (7.5kgX4.20)
- i'll have a cheaper fertiliser bill as well as I won't be under pressure to constantly keep 10cm under their heads!

Ok lads go on and tell me I'm talking complete bull or in this case bullocks!

First off you will lose the QA not much but now at 12 euro/100kg carcasse weight. If you have marginal land will you be able to keep 30 month old bullocks 650-700kgs out on grass untill september. No point in feeding cattle indoors to kill at 30 months in October killing at christmass january is possibely the most profitable at 32-34 months of age.

However you may need more than 5kgs of ration these bullocks if 700kgs going indoors will be consume 14 kgs DM/day. Am I right in thinking that you buy SIM because of favourable price with regard to other Continentals in the spring. These cattle off Fresian cows have huge frames.

However you have a few options one is to overwinter to 2year olds will these cattle weight 475-500 coming out of the shed. Summer grazer will gennerally (with the exception of last spring) take you hand off at the shoulder for these type of cattle. 2-2.4/kg is possible for them. How long is your winter and what will you wintering cost be forthese cattle can you over winter for 1.5/day gaining half a kg/day. 475-500kg bullocks should average 1100 euro. however everything will depend on costs.

Your other option is to change breed your system may well suilt traditional breeds or heifers finishing with a lesser meal bill. An AA bullock may well weight as heavy as an under finished Six, a hereford definately would. You also may be able to carry 2-3 more and also you will get the scheme bonus's.

yupyupyup

bob charles wrote: »

That will only come every third year, and has to cover the costs of the previous two years. keeping any animal costs money

i think your misunderstanding me, its a system and once we go into it we'll be buying 30 calves every year, not every 3 years.

yupyupyup

nashmach wrote: »

And you are basically expecting that to cover 90 animals for the year.

The sucklers lads say they can't keep two animals for one year with weanling sales, I don't see how this can be done either.

Would you be able to go down calf rearing to store and off load earlier?

as opposed to what? a man with 30 cows selling 27/28 weanlings to cover 57/58 animals?

I would consider the store route but i'm not sure how good of a seller 2 year old bucket reared stores are, I mean if you've a simmental o+ or a ch r+ theres gonna be a price difference.

plus i wont have enough cattle then to keep for the summer if im only going with 30 calves per year

yupyupyup

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

First off you will lose the QA not much but now at 12 euro/100kg carcasse weight. If you have marginal land will you be able to keep 30 month old bullocks 650-700kgs out on grass untill september. No point in feeding cattle indoors to kill at 30 months in October killing at christmass january is possibely the most profitable at 32-34 months of age.

However you may need more than 5kgs of ration these bullocks if 700kgs going indoors will be consume 14 kgs DM/day. Am I right in thinking that you buy SIM because of favourable price with regard to other Continentals in the spring. These cattle off Fresian cows have huge frames.

However you have a few options one is to overwinter to 2year olds will these cattle weight 475-500 coming out of the shed. Summer grazer will gennerally (with the exception of last spring) take you hand off at the shoulder for these type of cattle. 2-2.4/kg is possible for them. How long is your winter and what will you wintering cost be forthese cattle can you over winter for 1.5/day gaining half a kg/day. 475-500kg bullocks should average 1100 euro. however everything will depend on costs.

Your other option is to change breed your system may well suilt traditional breeds or heifers finishing with a lesser meal bill. An AA bullock may well weight as heavy as an under finished Six, a hereford definately would. You also may be able to carry 2-3 more and also you will get the scheme bonus's.

Im picking simmental because they're the only continental breed that dairy farmers use with the exception of blues. i would also consider ch or lim weaned at an early age of a suckler cow but its difficult to find a large group of these.

nashmach

yupyupyup wrote: »

as opposed to what? a man with 30 cows selling 27/28 weanlings to cover 57/58 animals?

I would consider the store route but i'm not sure how good of a seller 2 year old bucket reared stores are, I mean if you've a simmental o+ or a ch r+ theres gonna be a price difference.

plus i wont have enough cattle then to keep for the summer if im only going with 30 calves per year

Yes, that is what I was saying you are basically selling 30 cattle to keep 90 at present from my understanding.

I think you could be surprised by the demand for them as Farmer Pudsey has said, it really depends on what weight you are getting them up to by the end of the second winter.

But during the summer you will have 30 calves and 30 yearlings at present and it may mean you could up your numbers a bit for each instead??

Only providing some free thoughts.

yupyupyup wrote: »

Im picking simmental because they're the only continental breed that dairy farmers use with the exception of blues. i would also consider ch or lim weaned at an early age of a suckler cow but its difficult to find a large group of these.

That is odd then, nearly every dairy farmer around here uses LIM!

yupyupyup

nashmach wrote: »

Yes, that is what I was saying you are basically selling 30 cattle to keep 90 at present from my understanding.

I think you could be surprised by the demand for them as Farmer Pudsey has said, it really depends on what weight you are getting them up to by the end of the second winter.

But during the summer you will have 30 calves and 30 yearlings at present and it may mean you could up your numbers a bit for each instead??

Only providing some free thoughts.



That is odd then, nearly every dairy farmer around here uses LIM!

That's a surprise i generally see very few lims in the cattle lorrys, maybe it varies in different parts of the country. i have a fear tho of buying black calves that they are in fact angus and not lim!

Anyhow the selling as a 2year old store would defo be an option but id rather try the beef route at first altho i could mart half of them at 2 year old and factory the other half at 3, i guess id know first hand then what the best option is.

1chippy

your gra for six is going to cost you imo. angus and hereford definately sound like the right option. otherwise put up a good shed and a meal bin.

Farmer Pudsey

yupyupyup wrote: »

That's a surprise i generally see very few lims in the cattle lorrys, maybe it varies in different parts of the country. i have a fear tho of buying black calves that they are in fact angus and not lim!

Anyhow the selling as a 2year old store would defo be an option but id rather try the beef route at first altho i could mart half of them at 2 year old and factory the other half at 3, i guess id know first hand then what the best option is.

I think you are caught up on final weight and check. You will get a fair fright at the amount that 30 month old bullocks will eat inside in a shed. You have weanlings and 2 year old at present see the difference between what they eat. There is no guarantee that a 30 month old SIX will be fully grown. For all the talk about British Friesians there are virtually none around nowadays most Friesians are at least 50% Holstein it is just that some are more square than others but most stay growing and it is hard to finish.

The other thing to remember is that everything is now heading towards a smaller carcase, factory's no longer want over 400kgs carcasses at 440 the penalise bulls how long before the drop that to 400 and start imposing it on bullocks. In my opinion it is only a matter of time if not this winter then next winter. Yes they will always but at certain time such as May/June however who want to be feeding heavy cattle for 7-8 months. You will find that some May/June that the factory's have excess cattle they will really penalise these cattle.

If I was in your shoes I be doing the sums next spring as I sell the SIX bullocks and if the figures stack up I be selling them all as 2year olds

huey1975

This is all a bit off topic. What are ye getting for beef now?

just do it

YupYup

Have you done your costs out on an excel?

A bit of extra feeding vs keeping the cattle for an extra year, including an extra year's overwintering. Regardless how you do that surely the cost at a minimum is cost neutral.

Now also factor in finishing a year earlier will allow you to finish 45 each year vs 30 each year.

Agree with huey1975, this should be a separate thread.

mf240

buy your calves before christmas the will cost a bit more to rear but will be big enough to make use of a full years grass.

get out as early as possible year two then into the shed for their second winter on the best silage you can make and meal. should be well fit to kill by jan.

Buy more calves rather than keep them longer.

If land is poorish then heifers may suit better.

just do it

mf240 wrote: »

buy your calves before christmas the will cost a bit more to rear but will be big enough to make use of a full years grass.

get out as early as possible year two then into the shed for their second winter on the best silage you can make and meal. should be well fit to kill by jan.

Buy more calves rather than keep them longer.

If land is poorish then heifers may suit better.

Sounds like a good plan particularly where you've a wet farm. Young calves can get out early. Yearlings can also get out relatively early. Then in autumn the yearlings can be kept out later with the heavier 2yo cattle housed for finishing.

With the 3yo SIX on heavy land it will be hard to utilise grass at the shoulders of the second autumn and third spring and autumn.

thetangler

huey1975 wrote: »

This is all a bit off topic. What are ye getting for beef now?

Any update on beef price ?

MfMan

QA question.

Does the 70-day retention period mean that they have to be in your own herd for 70 days, or just have spent the last 70 days in a QA herd? e.g 30 days in herd of previous QA owner followed by 40 days in your own herd. Always thought it was the former....

nashmach

MfMan wrote: »

QA question.

Does the 70-day retention period mean that they have to be in your own herd for 70 days, or just have spent the last 70 days in a QA herd? e.g 30 days in herd of previous QA owner followed by 40 days in your own herd. Always thought it was the former....

Always thought 70+ days in the last owner's herd as well.