Time limit for dole?

christmas2012

ProudDUB wrote: »

What some might see it as exploitation, others may see it as a person acquiring the necessary skills to enter the retail trade as a paid employee. Whenever I see signs in shops that are hiring, 9 times out of 10 they also say that previous retail experience is required. If two people show up at that shop for an interview, who is more likely to get the job, the person who spent their time acquiring retail experience, or the person who sits on their arse at home all day watching Oprah?

Whether you see it as experience or exploitation is your business,but the facts remain,it robs what could have been a paid job from the community,further consigning those most vunerable to a lifetime of poverty and deeper unemployment and hopelessness.

Think of it,for every tesco job(for example),that could have advertised for paid staff,they dont instead they turn around and look for free labour via jobbridge..there fore jobbridge are joblockers

christmas2012

This is an example of how they exploit,this is just one of many ways in which they do it,and get away with it:

''In a different department 23 people have been made redundant until July and 23 Fas "workers" have been brought into our department for "training".

And we have been asked to take an hour cut of 2.5 per week while these guys are here. Met management and the union on Friday who said it had been accepted without consultation with any worker.''

In this situation,youre going to be pissed off if stuff like this is happening,there is NO job protection for these people,and all kinds of abuse is rife.

They have in jobbridge and fas, a revolving door system of free labour staff,while hiring no paid employees,eg a paid job that could have been advertised is instead occupied by a free labour job..
Places like tesco are abusing the system,and open abuse is allowed,tesco can well afford to hire but dont because of these schemes..

CruelCoin

Kirby wrote: »

They still do this. You have to fill out a form every six months or so and provide written proof of failed applications, interviews etc.

Honestly, the militant "Spungerrrrs on da dole" brigade that show their faces everytime a thread like this rolls around are obviously already in employment. It's very, very easy to have a go at people struggling when you have a job yourself. Put yourselvs in their shoes for a minute please everyone before the flaming begins.

"trying to find work" differs vastly from person to person.

Someone rolling up in a boy racer mobile, with mega loud music, pyjamas, hoodie, schweeee accent and terrible cv is not going to get a job anywhere apart from laying tarmac.

Anyone like the above, is not really trying, but doing just enough to fool the retards in the dole office.

CruelCoin

christmas2012 wrote: »

Whether you see it as experience or exploitation is your business,but the facts remain,it robs what could have been a paid job from the community,further consigning those most vunerable to a lifetime of poverty and deeper unemployment and hopelessness.

Think of it,for every tesco job(for example),that could have advertised for paid staff,they dont instead they turn around and look for free labour via jobbridge..there fore jobbridge are joblockers

Its not really fair to call it "job-blocking".

For many employers, it is a huge dis-incentive to hire someone, find out they're crap, and then find out it is bloody difficult to get rid of them.

Job-bridge provides a valuable method by which an employer can see how someone performs before considering them for a full-time position.

It is hugely damaging to a persons future job prospects to have year long gaps in their CV's. Those who are willing to work 30-40 hours for €50 will come out of this mess smelling like roses compared to those who sat at home doing nothing but padding their K/D ratio on call of duty...

CruelCoin

Wompa1 wrote: »

One would be the one from last week about Micheal Noonan saying that emigration was a life style choice...he was taken out of context and it got sensationalized and I'm not a fan of his either. I just don't like lazy journalism.

Absolutely taken out of context.

Its a shame so many young people have to emigrate, but that they choose to all go to English speaking countries is a lifestyle choice.

They could just as well have gone anywhere in Europe/Asia/Africa etc.

Hannibal Smith

SHOVELLER wrote: »

While Burton has the right idea this should have been done during the boom when the unemployment figures were at their lowest ever. However it needs to be done as we are haemorraging billions to pay people to do nothing. Nobody should be on unemployment assistance from 18 to their 60s.

The US model is something that should be seriously looked at. If you are laid off in a full time job you are entitled to 99 weeks of benefits. So in effect you have 2 years to find work. After that period you are on your own.

Unlike here if you leave a job there you are entitled to nothing.

If we took on this model the unemployment benefit idea would remain the same. However once your benefit expired that is it. There would be no unemployment assistance. Why should taxpayers be funding someone's assistance that has never worked.

As mentioned already anybody on the dole here longer than 2/3 years are unemployable. It is not economically viable to train them when they have lost social skills and the ability to function in a working environment.

From 1 January 2013 unemployment assistance should be abolished. Unemployment benefit to be increased to 24 months. However this would not apply to those currently unemployed.

This is a scarey post. The US is an awful code to base a social welfare system on. I can't believe people actually think it's a good idea to even try. I don't mind my taxes being used to pay those who have been made redundant, or who can't find work, that's the kind of State we live in. I'd rather that than have people living in their cars because they have no income whatsoever.

The reality is there are no jobs out there. My brother was out of work for 2 years and did all the Fas courses etc that he could during that time. It kept his skills updated and kept his mind ticking over when otherwise he would have been sitting on his rear end doing nothing. My sister has qualified from UCD with a degree last sept, she still has nothing and has gone for several job bridging interviews etc so she's off to Japan where she got an english teaching job.

And btw going to an English speaking country is not a lifestyle choice, it's common sense, if you can go to a foreign country that speaks your language it makes things a hell of a lot easier.

homerjay2005

very simple solution - dole is paid on line with your tax contributions over the past 5 years.

if you have paid lets day no tax in last 12 months - 100%
3k in last 24 months - 80%
<3k in last 36 months - 60%
<5k in last 48 months - 40%
< 7k in last 60 months - 25%

therefore the people who went out and earned but lost their jobs, get full benifits which they are entitled to. you then get one year, to get a job.

in other countries, your dole is cut after 6-12 months, no exceptions. the days of "your better off on the dole" need to be kicked into touch.

saa

ah come on anyone who deals with the scroungers know well enough from an interview whether their genuine or not they just don't have the power to cut them off right?

Its not like everyone will be hired for the most basic jobs with the competitition thats out there, the dole shouldnt have a time limit but at the descretion of someone in SW if you're perceived to be unwilling to work or not up to stanadard you then have one year to get your act together or its gone.

christmas2012

as joe duffy said dont sell yourself short dont work for nothing otherwise you will be exploited for nothing...

unfortuanately gone are the days that you can choose to go on a free labour scheme,now you are given no option but to do a free labour scheme,i can guarantee the dole queues will be getting longer and longer,as more and more companies sign up to these free labour schemes,no paid employment positions will be advertised.thats the bottom line really.

Lionel Messy

When I made the life changing decision to back to education, it was obvious there was folks there just for safe dole. They never sat one ****ing exam. It pissed me off. Real scum ridden kunts i'm talking about here.

There are people out there who do courses to further themselves, I was one of them and it was an important thing for me.

FGR

A lot of the long term dolers are those who manipulate the system in order to claim disability benefit.

Hence no need to worry about looking for work.

It gives all of those who are legitimately on db a bad name and makes it harder for them to claim it themselves.

Kalel

I have no issue the the Job Bridge .. We had a girl in on it about 6 months ago, she did a great job, showed herself to be a great worker and a fast learner. She was then offered and accepted a full time position. She had been unemployed for around 12 months so I don't think you will find her complaining.

christmas2012

Kalel wrote: »

I have no issue the the Job Bridge .. We had a girl in on it about 6 months ago, she did a great job, showed herself to be a great worker and a fast learner. She was then offered and accepted a full time position. She had been unemployed for around 12 months so I don't think you will find her complaining.

how do we know thats just not a made up story,i know a few people that worked on free labour schemes that had been let go,only to have the same company hire more free labour workers..there is no strong deterrent in place to keep that from happening..

if schemes like jobbridge and fas are allowed to continue,they are going to increase unemployment,as they occupy what could have been a paid position.

there are lots of companies who use it to this end.

CruelCoin

christmas2012 wrote: »

how do we know thats just not a made up story,i know a few people that worked on free labour schemes that had been let go,only to have the same company hire more free labour workers..there is no strong deterrent in place to keep that from happening..

if schemes like jobbridge and fas are allowed to continue,they are going to increase unemployment,as they occupy what could have been a paid position.

there are lots of companies who use it to this end.

Not to sound harsh or anything, but maybe they were crap, so the company decided to try a fresh batch?

"dons flame-retardent suit and braces"

MagicSean

christmas2012 wrote: »

Whether you see it as experience or exploitation is your business,but the facts remain,it robs what could have been a paid job from the community,further consigning those most vunerable to a lifetime of poverty and deeper unemployment and hopelessness.

Think of it,for every tesco job(for example),that could have advertised for paid staff,they dont instead they turn around and look for free labour via jobbridge..there fore jobbridge are joblockers

You are working under the assumption that the company would have spent the money on the extra staff member when it is likely they would have just continued as is and not hired anyone.

christmas2012

CruelCoin wrote: »

Not to sound harsh or anything, but maybe they were crap, so the company decided to try a fresh batch?

"dons flame-retardent suit and braces"

LOL,well what if they decide every batch of interns they get are not up to it,so they can have that excuse to hire more perpetuating unemployment in the area,they should be hiring in..

it takes jobs away:(

christmas2012

MagicSean wrote: »

You are working under the assumption that the company would have spent the money on the extra staff member when it is likely they would have just continued as is and not hired anyone.

tescos are still in expansion across ireland,they have never been busier,they have 24 hour supermarkets,but you see with tescos they have machines to do the checking out,ie no staff needed,and hiring free labour workers,when they need extra staff,and most companies hire extra staff around the winter period when they are at their busiest,but because free labour is in the way,they wont be paid christmas staff..

supermacs used to hire paid staff but now dont due to these schemes,and what i dont understand is why they are allowed to be on the list,as they can well than more afford to hire..


the flaw with these free labour schemes is they have no strong deterrents(a 6 month cooling off period is not a strong deterrent,when you think that they can wait 6 months,or just hire at christmas),they should have a prerequirement whereby no company is allowed free labour unless they employ a percentage of the free labour staff near the end of the free labour internship..

steve9859

christmas2012 wrote: »

how do we know thats just not a made up story,i know a few people that worked on free labour schemes that had been let go,only to have the same company hire more free labour workers..there is no strong deterrent in place to keep that from happening..

if schemes like jobbridge and fas are allowed to continue,they are going to increase unemployment,as they occupy what could have been a paid position.

there are lots of companies who use it to this end.

And I would argue that there are lots that dont. It is a reach to say that all jobbridge jobs would be full time paid jobs....

You can't just say, every time you see a good story, that it might be made up. How do we know that every bad story is not made up? AFAIK you've just made up your story about people that you allegedly know.

christmas2012

Trust me ive been on the scheme i know how it works,there were full timers that had their hours cut down just as the free labour staff came in,it was all the buzz in the office..

the permanent staff went to their union,we even thought the situation was terrible for them we didnt know we were being used like that..

they said aswell that jobs that could have been advertised werent because of the scheme..

and there were people on the scheme that had no proper training,work exp and werent qualified in that area,even at standard certificate level(like fetac)..

NinjaK

You cant cut the dole completely on people, how will they survive? Thefts would skyrocket.

christmas2012

NinjaK wrote: »

You cant cut the dole completely on people, how will they survive? Thefts would skyrocket.

im not suggesting cut the dole,but i think they should change the way the scheme works,as its easy to exploit workers,and actually create unemployment which is what they are doing..

skoomi

There is definitely a "dole culture" in Ireland - people who have no intention of working ever and are actually proud of it - even young men from well-to-do families.

BUT ... there are people that are actually trying to find work, like me. Not even my local Tesco, Dunnes, Penneys, Super Valu etc. etc. are hiring. These are for want of a better word the lowly jobs that should be easy to get. I'm not qualified enough for most of the vacancies offered online. I've been unsuccessful in applying for a lot of positions for this JobSh!t scheme. What can I do?

BUT (#2) ... I do agree that there should be some sort of fire under our arses. It's ridiculous what I can afford on the dole. Granted I haven't bought myself any new clothes or electronics since I've signed on, but I do get the chance to have at least one session a week and maybe a few pints. I went to the cinema to see The Avengers last week. Tonight my friend and I are going halves on a nice bottle of rum (it's a Monday night).

BUT (#3) ... If scumbags get their dole taken away, they WILL resort to [more] crime to make a living.

forfuxsake

I saw some people today collecting their dole in the post office and it struck me that I would be very scared of them if they had no money to live on.

They looked like inbred villagers from the Middle Ages. They looked very strong and demented.

mattjack

forfuxsake wrote: »

I saw some people today collecting their dole in the post office and it struck me that I would be very scared of them if they had no money to live on.

They looked like inbred villagers from the Middle Ages. They looked very strong and demented.

Were you looking down from your Ivory Tower ?

fianna saor

i think they should introduce a system that gradually reduces the amount of dole you get the longer you are on it, this encourages the lazy (not all) section of dole recipients to get up off their arses and look for work, also will discourage people who get away with receiving their payments long term reducing the numbers on it and therefore making the inspectors jobs easier to police the fraudsters.

skoomi

mattjack wrote: »

Were you looking down from your Ivory Tower ?

Are you disputing the fact that there are thick scumbag savages in Ireland?

plasmaguy

About 5% of people on the dole are satisfied to be there and really arent interested in finding work.

About 95% really want a job but simply can't find one.

Why punish the 95% for the actions of the long term slacker 5%? Doesn't make sense.

Retraining of the unemployed is the only solution, unfortunately, we don't have a proper organisation to do that apart from the shambolic jobs for the boys FAS.

whatdoicare

I wonder would the jobsbridge scheme actually work if there was some sort of incentive brought in to keep people on?
Like say, if the company turns the intern into a full time employee with contract etc etc then they get whatever the person was getting (dole + 50) for another 9 months to help towards paying the wages which obviously would have to go up to minimum wage.
So they get a low cost worker for another period - 18 months being plenty of time for a business to get up and running and for the intern to be pulling their weight. The intern gets a proper job after the 9 months with prsi etc and an actual incentive to sign up to the scheme. Government gets to sign another person off the dole. Win - win.

Or is this too "crazy" an idea?

token101

mattjack wrote: »

Were you looking down from your Ivory Tower ?

Maybe if plebeians got off the dole they too could afford such luxuries as ivory towers.

token101

whatdoicare wrote: »

I wonder would the jobsbridge scheme actually work if there was some sort of incentive brought in to keep people on?
Like say, if the company turns the intern into a full time employee with contract etc etc then they get whatever the person was getting (dole + 50) for another 9 months to help towards paying the wages which obviously would have to go up to minimum wage.
So they get a low cost worker for another period - 18 months being plenty of time for a business to get up and running and for the intern to be pulling their weight. The intern gets a proper job after the 9 months with prsi etc and an actual incentive to sign up to the scheme. Government gets to sign another person off the dole. Win - win.

Or is this too "crazy" an idea?

This already happens. If they hire the worker they don't pay their PRSI for a year.

The only problem with this scheme is the fact that it is aimed at everyone, rather than those needing work experience. Tescos, Supermacs should be vetted. That's all that's needed.