Time limit for dole?

fianna saor

christmas2012 wrote: »

Im not talking about sudan or the UN thats a different matter,im talking about ireland and those who have no other means of income

isnt that the idea... for them to get up and get another means of income

christmas2012

To live in poverty with no other means of income and you are suggesting to just KICK PEOPLE OFF THE DOLE..That is a breach of someones right to life,how are they going to live with no source no supplement,how are they going to feed themselves or their family?
Im not talking about sudan or those millions dying of starvation,is that what you see for ireland by kicking people off the dole?is it?its not all flat screens and iphones you know being on the dole..

christmas2012

fianna saor wrote: »

isnt that the idea... for them to get up and get another means of income

all very well but where are the jobs out there,for those unemployed people..

14% unemployed in ireland,and not out of choice either..

yore

christmas2012 wrote: »

To live in poverty with no other means of income and you are suggesting to just KICK PEOPLE OFF THE DOLE..That is a breach of someones right to life,how are they going to live with no source no supplement,how are they going to feed themselves or their family?
Im not talking about sudan or those millions dying of starvation,is that what you see for ireland by kicking people off the dole?is it?its not all flat screens and iphones you know being on the dole..

You belittle those starving people by placing the "atrocity" of maybe cutting dole (after a length of time) on a par with their suffering.

As I said, Human Rights me hole

IrishAm

christmas2012 wrote: »

To live in poverty with no other means of income and you are suggesting to just KICK PEOPLE OFF THE DOLE..That is a breach of someones right to life,how are they going to live with no source no supplement

Ask the self employed whose businesses failed. They arent entitled to a shiny cent. :mad:

christmas2012

i agree there should be some provision for those who have entreprenurial spirit and have fallen into hard times..i think the whole system is unfair,and internship schemes that perpetuate unemployment should be scrapped,there should be a better jobs programme in place for both employer and employee,not this intern sh1t of training to wipe tables and not get taken on,its exploitation.
I think to kick someone off the dole is just inhumane,there are 14% out there recently unemployed also,who are unemployed not out of choice.
Just like those business people who have fallen on hard times,i think it should be a right for business people to avail of some supplementary allowance while in debt/struggling..

fianna saor

christmas2012 wrote: »

all very well but where are the jobs out there,for those unemployed people..

14% unemployed in ireland,and not out of choice either..

well just in case you havent come across any of my posts before, i would lean towards anti immigration, theres a few.....

do you really believe that all 14% are not on it by choice? :eek:

yore

christmas2012 wrote: »

i agree there should be some provision for those who have entreprenurial spirit and have fallen into hard times..i think the whole system is unfair,and internship schemes that perpetuate unemployment should be scrapped,there should be a better jobs programme in place for both employer and employee,not this intern sh1t of training to wipe tables and not get taken on,its exploitation.
I think to kick someone off the dole is just inhumane,there are 14% out there recently unemployed also,who are unemployed not out of choice.
Just like those business people who have fallen on hard times,i think it should be a right for business people to avail of some supplementary allowance while in debt/struggling..

Yeah, damn straight Christmas. Who do they think you are wanting you to demean yourself wiping tables. Sure everyone knows that wiping tables is only a good job for foreigners. You are far far above that.

forfuxsake

yore wrote: »

Yeah, damn straight Christmas. Who do they think you are wanting you to demean yourself wiping tables. Sure everyone knows that wiping tables is only a good job for foreigners. You are far far above that.

He didn't deem it demeaning, he implied it doesn't require a lot of training to learn to wipe a table. It doesn't.

He didn't mention foreigners. You did.

Says a lot more about you than him.:pac::pac:

IrishAm

yore wrote: »

Yeah, damn straight Christmas. Who do they think you are wanting you to demean yourself wiping tables. Sure everyone knows that wiping tables is only a good job for foreigners. You are far far above that.

One needs to train for free to learn how to wipe down a table now?

Hows the family farm btw?:)

yore

forfuxsake wrote: »

He didn't deem it demeaning, he implied it doesn't require a lot of training to learn to wipe a table. It doesn't.

He didn't mention foreigners. You did.

Says a lot more about you than him.:pac::pac:

Are you another one who thinks themselves above any manual labour for no apparent reason. With nothing to back it up other than a deluded sense of superiority

yore

IrishAm wrote: »

One needs to train for free to learn how to wipe down a table now?

Hows the family farm btw?:)

What drugs are you on? Where are you going with you family farm??? It'd do you no harm to get off your arse and do a bit of manual labour. whether it be sweeping the street or , seeing as you mentioned it, working on a farm.

christmas2012

yore wrote: »

Yeah, damn straight Christmas. Who do they think you are wanting you to demean yourself wiping tables. Sure everyone knows that wiping tables is only a good job for foreigners. You are far far above that.

First off you dont even know me,i never said i was above wiping tables or that foreigners should do it..I never said i was far far above that..

I have done waitressing in the past,as a paid employee
,i have done a few different jobs worked in petrol stations,everywhere,its not below me at all,ive done a FAS scheme too,what some would consider to be free labour abuse,i done that too,im open to most things and dont think its below me.

Your remarks are highly presumpteuous..

yore

christmas2012 wrote: »

First off you dont even know me,i never said i was above wiping tables or that foreigners should do it..I never said i was far far above that..

I have done waitressing in the past,as a paid employee
,i have done a few different jobs worked in petrol stations,everywhere,its not below me at all,ive done a FAS scheme too,what some would consider to be free labour abuse,i done that too,im open to most things and dont think its below me.

Your remarks are highly presumptous..

Bullsh1te. There's nothing wrong with a job wiping tables. Every single food place/restaurant/pub has people doing that. Tables don't clean themsleves

Even if it was an internship, you are getting paid for it. 250 euro (approx). Not 50 Euro. 250. that 200 dole is not your "Human right".

christmas2012

so what would you suggest kick people off the dole who have no other source of income?
i never said there was anything wrong with wiping tables,but a jobbridge scheme attached spells free labour abuse,it has it written all over it

yore

christmas2012 wrote: »

so what would you suggest kick people off the dole who have no other source of income?
i never said there was anything wrong with wiping tables,but a jobbridge scheme attached spells free labour abuse,it has it written all over it

Nothing wrong with it at all? Yep, that's why you used it as an example to prove a point in a post.

yore

christmas2012 wrote: »

so what would you suggest kick people off the dole who have no other source of income?
i never said there was anything wrong with wiping tables,but a jobbridge scheme attached spells free labour abuse,it has it written all over it

Oh, and to answer your question, that 250 on the jobsbridge that you look down your nose at, or the minimum wage job wiping those tables, might look a lot more tempting if your dole was halved after 2 years

christmas2012

there are plenty of people on the dole looking for jobs getting a constant stream of rejection letters,are you suggesting to cut these peoples dole?

yore

christmas2012 wrote: »

there are plenty of people on the dole looking for jobs getting a constant stream of rejection letters,are you suggesting to cut these peoples dole?

No, I'd suggest they apply for different jobs

IrishAm

yore wrote: »

Oh, and to answer your question, that 250 on the jobsbridge that you look down your nose at, or the minimum wage job wiping those tables, might look a lot more tempting if your dole was halved after 2 years

Every worker in the Irish state is legally entitled to the minimum wage. Workers who sign up with the intern programme, agree to waive that right in the hope that they pick up some valuable training, new skills and become more employable.

Waiting table is not rocket science. It takes a month tops to learn. So why waive your right to earn the minimum wage, when you will learn little or nothing extra, in the following eleven months?

Employers advertising intern jobs for wait staff are taking the absolute p*ss.

yore

IrishAm wrote: »

Every worker in the Irish state is legally entitled to the minimum wage. Workers who sign up with the intern programme, agree to waive that right in the hope that they pick up some valuable training, new skills and become more employable.

Waiting table is not rocket science. It takes a month tops to learn. So why waive your right to earn the minimum wage, when you will learn little or nothing extra, in the following eleven months?

Employers advertising intern jobs for wait staff are taking the absolute p*ss.

The bolded part is not entirely true

woodoo

Just do what Germany does. Pay decent dole for a while and then put them down to €340 per month. Just cover food, medical and shelter. No spare money for fags, booze, holidays or a car.

fianna saor

yore wrote: »

The bolded part is not entirely true

how do you mean?

fianna saor

woodoo wrote: »

Just do what Germany does. Pay decent dole for a while and then put them down to €340 per month. Just cover food, medical and shelter. No spare money for fags, booze, holidays or a car.

or put it on some sort of card system where everything is itemised and recorded if items like the ones you mentioned are on this subtract it from the next payment

IrishAm

fianna saor wrote: »

or put it on some sort of card system where everything is itemised and recorded if items like the ones you mentioned are on this subtract it from the next payment

What would happen then is, some people would buy 20 euro worth of groceries on their card for a friend, in return for fifteen euro in cash.

fianna saor

IrishAm wrote: »

What would happen then is, some people would buy 20 euro worth of groceries on their card for a friend, in return for fifteen euro in cash.

yeah maybe so, id still opt foe my other suggestion of gradual reduction though.

yore

fianna saor wrote: »

how do you mean?

I think the statement is pretty straightforward.


Here: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/pay_and_employment/pay_inc_min_wage.html

Exceptions to those entitled to receive the national minimum wage
There are some exceptions to those entitled to receive the national minimum wage. The legislation does not apply to a person employed by a close relative (for example, a spouse, civil partner or parent) nor does it apply to those in statutory apprenticeships. Also some employees such as young people under 18 and trainees are only guaranteed a reduced or sub-minimum rate of the national minimum wage.

Sub-minimum rates
Since 1 July 2011 the National Minimum Wage Act provides the following sub-minimum rates, see also 'Rates' below:

An employee who is under 18 is entitled to €6.06 per hour (this is 70% of the minimum wage)
An employee who is in the first year of employment since the age of 18 is entitled to €6.92 per hour (80% of minimum wage)
An employee who is in the second year of employment since the date of first employment over the age of 18 is entitled to €7.79 per hour (90% of the minimum wage)
This phasing in of the national minimum wage also applies to employees who are over 18 and enter employment for the first time.

Trainees
The National Minimum Wage Act also provides sub-minimum rates which apply to employees who are over 18 and undergoing a course of structured training or directed study that is authorised or approved of by the employer.

Since 1 July 2011 the trainee rates provided by the Act are as follows, see also 'Rates' below:

First one-third of training course €6.49 per hour (75% of national minimum wage rate)
Second one-third of training course €6.92 per hour (80% of national minimum wage rate)
Final one third of the training course €7.79 per hour (90% of national minimum wage rate)
Note: each one third period must be at least one month and no more than one year.

The Act provides certain criteria which the training course must meet if the trainee rates are to apply. For example, the training or study must be for the purposes of improving the work performance of the employee; the employee's participation on the training or study must be directed or approved by the employer; at least 10% of the training must occur away from the employee’s ordinary operational duties; there must be an assessment and certification procedure or written confirmation on the completion of the training course.

Exemption for employer
If an employer cannot afford to pay the national minimum wage due to financial difficulty the Labour Court may exempt an employer from paying the minimum wage rate for between 3 months and one year. Only one such exemption can be allowed.

The employer must apply to the Labour Court for the exemption with the consent of a majority of the employees, who must also agree to be bound by the Labour Court decision.

The employer must demonstrate that he/she is unable to pay the national minimum wage and that, if compelled to do so, would have to lay-off employees or terminate their employment.

An exemption may only be sought from paying the full rate of the national minimum wage, not for cases covered by the reduced rate, for example, employees who are under 18 years of age.

fianna saor

yore wrote: »

I think the statement is pretty straightforward.


Here: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/pay_and_employment/pay_inc_min_wage.html

didnt actually know that... interesting

christmas2012

yore wrote: »

No, I'd suggest they apply for different jobs

what i was saying is that these people didnt narrow their search and still got rejection letters

forfuxsake

yore wrote: »

Are you another one who thinks themselves above any manual labour for no apparent reason. With nothing to back it up other than a deluded sense of superiority

No what I said was that you don't need a lot of training to wipe tables. Maybe you would.