Graduate jobs in the civil service (AO)

datura

Just in case anybody interested hadn't seen this:

http://www.publicjobs.ie/publicjobs/en/star/goToJobDetails.do?id=2335&featuredJob=true

They're looking for people with backgrounds in Human Resources, Law, Accountancy, Economics, Banking and Finance and Tax Policy.

Slydice

datura wrote: »

Human Resources, Law, Accountancy, Economics, Banking and Finance and Tax Policy.

might be worth putting that into the title of this thread cos ya pretty much need a degree in one of em

Nolanger

Apparently only 3,200 applied. We're in recession and new graduates have no interest in these pensionable jobs? Then they cry at the airports to mammy before heading off to Australia/Canada?

josephotoole91

A lot of the positions required masters degrees which probably cut down on the potential recruitment pool.

Toasterspark

Nolanger wrote: »

Apparently only 3,200 applied.

How many jobs are there available?

I'm assuming they are all Dublin-based - will they have preference for people in the Dublin region (similar to the summer vacancies?).

JohnMearsheimer

Any graduate could not apply for these positions. The job specs for these positions I read on public jobs were very targeted. Usually AO competitions are open to anyone with a degree but the Public Appointments Service were clearly looking for specific graduates in this case. For example, with the HR related jobs they wanted people with CIPD qualifications, other jobs required you to be a qualified solicitor, others you needed a masters in economics. Only a small number of our total graduates would meet the minimum standards for eligibility.

JohnMearsheimer

Toasterspark wrote: »

How many jobs are there available?

I'm assuming they are all Dublin-based - will they have preference for people in the Dublin region (similar to the summer vacancies?).

Probably not a whole lot of jobs available. They won't care where you're from or based.

InReality

pity I missed this.
were there any jobs that just needed a degree ?

flowers11

Nolanger wrote: »

Apparently only 3,200 applied. We're in recession and new graduates have no interest in these pensionable jobs? Then they cry at the airports to mammy before heading off to Australia/Canada?

The jobs available are very specified and most require masters degree and experience, solicitors will be given priority over legal graduates who apply for the legal roles for one example so I really dont think this is a fair comment to make. I'm one of the 3,200 people who DID apply and am not very optimistic of my chances and know that pretty soon I will probably have to wave my parents off tearfully at an airport.

JohnMearsheimer

InReality wrote: »

pity I missed this.
were there any jobs that just needed a degree ?

No, none.

johnny-fatality

sickened I didn't hear about this in time.

Nolanger

I applied and did some kind of online questionnaire last week. Just because you have a Masters doesn't mean you'll pass their aptitude tests/interviews. The number of people with a 4th level qualification is very low in the Civil Service anyway. A bit late in the day for the Public Sector to be looking economics/finance/accounting graduates. Done ten years ago we might not be in this recession?

flowers11

Never said that having a masters entiltled you to a job or meant you'd pass the interview just meant it would give you an advantage if they specified it in the job requirements section of the job description.

JohnMearsheimer

Nolanger wrote: »

I applied and did some kind of online questionnaire last week. Just because you have a Masters doesn't mean you'll pass their aptitude tests/interviews. The number of people with a 4th level qualification is very low in the Civil Service anyway. A bit late in the day for the Public Sector to be looking economics/finance/accounting graduates. Done ten years ago we might not be in this recession?

True, it does not but the first round of tests is just to cut a whole bunch of people. Even if you pass it they'll probably cut you because you didn't meet the eligibility requirements to apply in the first place....that is if you don't possess what they're looking for....I don't know, maybe you do. I agree, in the past the public sector were not great at matching jobs with people's skills, backgrounds and strengths but surely it's better late than never.

microbio

Nolanger wrote: »

The number of people with a 4th level qualification is very low in the Civil Service anyway.

Do you know this from personal experience or is it an assumption based on the state of the country? As a recent recruit from a competition which required a level 7 qualification, I can tell you that most of the recruits had a level 9 qualification, and/or a level 10 (about 10 or 11 out of 15 taken on). It is my experience in my department that level 9/10 qualifications are widely held.
Based on our own competition, they will be looking for value for money from candidates. Best of luck with your applications.

Nidot

microbio wrote: »

Do you know this from personal experience or is it an assumption based on the state of the country? As a recent recruit from a competition which required a level 7 qualification, I can tell you that most of the recruits had a level 9 qualification, and/or a level 10 (about 10 or 11 out of 15 taken on). It is my experience in my department that level 9/10 qualifications are widely held.
Based on our own competition, they will be looking for value for money from candidates. Best of luck with your applications.

Level 10 is Doctorate/Phd level, you are aware of that. The majority of people who are joining the Civil Service / are in the Civil Service are nowhere near that level.

In the main the mjority of candidates joining th Civil Service in recent years is probably around the Level 8 (i.e. honors degree from the national college) with a few possibly holding Level 9 (i.e. Masters).

I did look at the roles they had on offer but they didn't really appeal to me for two reasons:
1. The roles seemed to be based at department headquarters in Dublin, which as I'm from Cork and have build up contacts in Cork so far in my career, would be kind of starting from scratch again.
2. The accounting roles specifed didn't really give great depth as to what they were requiring, they described accounting functions yes but no reporting strucuture or field to which responsibility would be drawn, far too broad in my opinion to make going for one of these roles attractive as you wouldn't know what you'd be getting involved in.

A point I will make tho is that the requirements for the accounting roles specified an accounting graduate or a qualified accountant. Now the majority of accounting graduates would not be at a significant level of qualification (from my own experience a fresh graduate out of college isn't worth anything in an accounting role without 2-3 years experience, I include myself in this) to offer anything to the role.

Also if it was a qualified/experienced accountant which they require (which I believe they should truely be trying to recruit) shouldn't they specify this as such.

Nolanger

Independent
Sunday January 25 2009

Just one civil servant in over 600 staff at the Department of Finance has the top-level business qualification -- a PhD in economics.

As the department grapples with issues like the recapitalisation of the banks and a collapse in confidence in the regulatory system, it seems that the minister may be going into complex negotiations without the backing he needs.

Labour Finance spokeswoman Joan Burton said: "He urgently needs to hire some fiscal hit-men if he is serious about getting tough on our banking culture."

Former Taoiseach Dr Garret FitzGerald recently drew attention to the lack of qualifications among staff at the Department of Finance.

"When I was Taoiseach there were 17 economists working in the department. When I last checked a few years ago, there were only three, only one of whom was working on macro-economic issues -- on policy issues relating to the performances of the economy," said Dr Fitzgerald in a column in the Irish Times.

He said that he was raising the issue because of "some very wide margins of error" that had occurred in the government Department's financial forecasts.

Less than 10 per cent of the Department's 614 employees have any qualifications in finance or accountancy.

According to Joan Burton, the lack of qualified people may hamper the department in dealing with the worst recession in the history of the state and the ongoing collapse of the banking system.

Over the last seven years alone its financial forecasts have been wrong by a staggering €20bn.

"The Department has brilliant people who are superb administrators -- but they may not be the sort of people needed for this crisis,'' said Ms Burton.

"Basically we need some sheriffs to sort out the cowboys.'' She also warned that many departmental advisors are "academic economists" who were recruited from college and spent their entire careers in the public service.

"They are very traditional civil servants who are superb political analysts but who have absolutely no experience of dealing with the sort of negotiators the banks are sending in,'' she claims.

"This has been an absurd, ramshackle and dangerous approach to policymaking," said Dr FitzGerald.

"The absence of an adequate number of qualified staff on the macro-economic side of the Department policy area is indefensible -- and has contributed significantly to our current economic difficulties."

cnlbel

any one have any idea when you could expect to hear back after doing that questionnaire?

anbodhran

cnlbel wrote: »

any one have any idea when you could expect to hear back after doing that questionnaire?

I received word this afternoon that based on the questionnaire I'd qualified for the next stage, which is another exam being held up in Croke Park.

Does anyone know where or how far in the process this would leave you?

hi I just posted a new thread about this but I am clueless.

Graciefacey

Hi all, I got called to Croke Park too. Does anyone know where these jobs are based??

bella.donna

I've also qualified for the next stage. Is it just me or does it seem like they've given very little notice before next week's assessment?

anbodhran

bella.donna wrote: »

I've also qualified for the next stage. Is it just me or does it seem like they've given very little notice before next week's assessment?

What date were you given?

bella.donna

bella.donna wrote: »

I've also qualified for the next stage. Is it just me or does it seem like they've given very little notice before next week's assessment?

anbodhran wrote: »

What date were you given?

Wednesday, the 7th of March, at 9.30. I have to fly over from Brussels.

anbodhran

bella.donna wrote: »

Wednesday, the 7th of March, at 9.30. I have to fly over from Brussels.

Harsh! Got the Thursday myself.

I got the thursday too but I have another interview that day just my luck:(, so I wonder is it worth my while travelling to Dublin, are all the roles in Dublin? I also wonder have they viewd our information yet or are they calling everyone who passed the questioneer and then if we pass the test they will look at information we submitted?

Skittlebrau

Deleted User wrote: »

I got the thursday too but I have another interview that day just my luck:(, so I wonder is it worth my while travelling to Dublin, are all the roles in Dublin? I also wonder have they viewd our information yet or are they calling everyone who passed the questioneer and then if we pass the test they will look at information we submitted?

I also have the Thursday. I wonder how many have been called for these tests. Quite a lot I imagine.

barrybones_wx

Id say that most of the roles will be in Dublin with the odd one possibly in one of the decentralised offices, most likely you'd be in Dublin though.

And I'd say they won't view any information submitted until interview stages. At the end of the day there's no point interviewing you or taking the time to read CVs if the candidate isn't able to do basic maths and that sort of thing.

DoesNotCompute

So much for the recruitment moritorium...

marieky21

I got called for the friday, for Finance and Banking Human Resources. What positons is everyone been called for? Is it an assessment day? very little details on the email.

Thanks

crystalmice

Have a look at the sample tests on publicjobs.ie, they dont look too hard, from those I gather the asssement is 1 1/2 hrs long. Does anyone know how many more stages there are after this? Its a big inconvenience for me to go there on such short notice, and I was always doubtful I would get the job as I dont have much experience (graduated last year)

Toasterspark

Does anyone know what departments might be taking on people, and if the jobs are all Dublin-based?

Hihello

Does anyone know if they are permanent job? Don't want to waste a holiday day and go to the apptitude for it not to be a permanent position as I already have a permanent job and don't plan to leave it for a job for a year!

Pawwed Rig

JohnMearsheimer wrote: »

Originally Posted by InReality
pity I missed this.
were there any jobs that just needed a degree ?



No, none.

Not true. I just got notice of an assesment in Croker and I have 'only' a degree.


Got called for March 9th which I definitely cannot attend but there is no contact details in the message?? So I just e-mailed publicjobs.ie. Will see if I hear back. I can literally do every day except the one they put me in for:D. Not very much notice btw

Hihello

If you log onto public jobs.ie and go into my applications you should find a contact email there

Pawwed Rig

Hihello wrote: »

If you log onto public jobs.ie and go into my applications you should find a contact email there

Oh yeah.........ahem

I think I said in the application that I had computer skills

thanks for that

InReality

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Not true. I just got notice of an assesment in Croker and I have 'only' a degree.


Got called for March 9th which I definitely cannot attend but there is no contact details in the message?? So I just e-mailed publicjobs.ie. Will see if I hear back. I can literally do every day except the one they put me in for:D. Not very much notice btw

Whats your degree in , if you don't mind me asking ?

InReality

After the assessment , your usually called to an interview if your in the top group , depends on how many roles they have to fill.

The interview results are then ranked as well , and the top group there are placed in whats called a "panel".
Once your on the panel you can be called for a specific job and asked if you want it.
You could get placed last on the panel and be waiting quite a while to get a job offer though.
The process is generally quite slow compared with a private sector hiring.

Also the AO jobs are all permanent jobs, normally have a 6mth prob period.

Pawwed Rig

InReality wrote: »

Whats your degree in , if you don't mind me asking ?

Accountancy and Finance

InReality wrote: »

You could get placed last on the panel and be waiting quite a while to get a job offer though.
The process is generally quite slow compared with a private sector hiring.

Define quite a while? Are we talking weeks/months?

V480

Congrats to those who got called and best of luck.

Those of you travelling from outside Dublin, are you travelling up the night before?

I'm thinking if parking at the Red Cow and getting the LUAS. Is it safe to leave your car there overnight though?

cletus

My missus is heading up on the 7th. Your safe leaving the car at the red cow luas overnight, have done it myself plenty of times.

Does anybody know any good websites to practice the tests

anbodhran

V480 wrote: »

Congrats to those who got called and best of luck.

Those of you travelling from outside Dublin, are you travelling up the night before?

I'm thinking if parking at the Red Cow and getting the LUAS. Is it safe to leave your car there overnight though?

Car Park is grand there, but if you're really worried about it drive into the Red Cow Moran and leave it there.

gallyer

got called for wednesday. does anyone have any information on the payscale for these roles, not getting ahead of myself, just didnt take a copy of the ad, and have no idea what it was.

cee_jay

gallyer wrote: »

got called for wednesday. does anyone have any information on the payscale for these roles, not getting ahead of myself, just didnt take a copy of the ad, and have no idea what it was.

As per http://circulars.gov.ie/pdf/circular/finance/2010/18.pdf

€29,922 €32,575 €35,970 €38,554 €41,140 €43,734 €46,319 €48,896
€50,683¹ €52,465

elpistolero

got a call for this myself, im on the friday test, any idea how many approx will be doing these assesments?

delricyo

elpistolero wrote: »

got a call for this myself, im on the friday test, any idea how many approx will be doing these assesments?

Got called for Wed afternoon. Im in session number 3 @ 13.30
Considering the tests are taking place over 3 days - I would say quite a lot of people are doing the tests.
Congrats to all who got through stage 1. From the posts above it does seem like plenty got through. Havent heard of anybody so far who didnt get through.

Good luck all !

V480

Has anybody found the 'exam checklist and familiarisation material' yet??

Aglomerado

bella.donna wrote: »

Wednesday, the 7th of March, at 9.30. I have to fly over from Brussels.

I'm on at that time too. I live outside Dublin but am close enough to a train station, so I'm still trying to decide between travelling up in the morning or staying overnight.

Everything you need to know about preparation and familiarisation is at the 'Advice Centre' link.

Sample tests here: http://www.publicjobs.ie/publicjobs/advice/test/sample.htm

capefear

Hi

Congrats to every one who got to this stage. Im called for thurs morning, but it doesnt suit me, heading away for afew days. Is the test been held the following week would any one know? As I dont want to have to cancel trip.

evey3624

Hi All

I am also heading up on Wed @ 13.30. Does anyone know if there is parking near Croke park or would it be better to do the park and ride?

Also I have seen the advice section but I can not find the publication that was discussed in the email either??

delricyo

evey3624 wrote: »

Hi All

I am also heading up on Wed @ 13.30. Does anyone know if there is parking near Croke park or would it be better to do the park and ride?

Also I have seen the advice section but I can not find the publication that was discussed in the email either??

Sample questions are now in the publications section of the site
Do the tests look familiar ? If anybody did the EO test before you will see that this sample test is actually an EO booklet. Maybe they will go with the EO level of difficulty ?
Or maybe people wil turn up on the day and be presented with an AO exam booklet ?

Not miles between the 2 tests but imho the job sim require more thought.

I wish everyone good luck. If you haven't done one of these tests before, you will be surprised by how tired it leaves you Strange how reading some paragraphs and doing some sums does this.

Happy studying !!