Graduate jobs in the civil service (AO)

oran12

Just because your 50 doesnt mean your not a graduate. I would have no problem with older people who are graduates applying. Graduate recruitment usually means hiring graduates. Sorry to dissapoint those who havent recently graduated but I think the civil service would be of the same view. No point in blaiming me if you lost a job and cant find another one. Do what other graduates do who cant find a job and move abroad and if you cant do that go work in McDonalds or somewhere

Toasterspark

Harsh. Personally, I'd be keen to hire the best people for the job, even if the definition for graduate has to be skewed a little. You wouldn't believe some of the graduates that emerge these days - some of them lack basic grammar and spelling!

Who_8_Paul?

oran12 wrote: »

Just because your 50 doesnt mean your not a graduate. I would have no problem with older people who are graduates applying. Graduate recruitment usually means hiring graduates. Sorry to dissapoint those who havent recently graduated but I think the civil service would be of the same view. No point in blaiming me if you lost a job and cant find another one. Do what other graduates do who cant find a job and move abroad and if you cant do that go work in McDonalds or somewhere

Since when did graduate mean someone who graduated in the last 2 or 3 years? A graduate is someone who has graduated 3rd level full stop. You seem to be trying to convince us, and yourself probably, that this competition is only for those who have graduated recently which is absolute nonsense. Your comments regarding those in the unfortunate position of having lost their jobs are at best idiotic and immature. With an attitude like that you'll never pass an interview for this job, unless you're a trained actor. By the way, I have just recently finished my masters, ie I'm a recent graduate, but I don't for a second believe I have a divine right to one of these posts, even with years of experience and 2 relevant degrees. You may get a serious wake up call yourself some day soon if you lose that silver spoon in your mouth. A horrible product of the Celtic tiger no doubt.

Graciefacey

I'm a recent graduate with excellent credentials and work experience, and have a young child. Im lucky in that I'm not in a bad position and am reasonably comfortable in the sense that I have no debts as such. If it was a choice of me getting the job versus somebody for whom this job would literally transform their circumstances and for whom it us their last shot at a career, I would graciously prefer that person to be hired. The argument about graduate definition is ridiculous, its sour grapes and fear. You might have a pretty piece of paper with your name on it but common sense and maturity is somethin you have to experience life to obtain.

boobar

Aglomerado wrote: »

I was amused by the invigilators having to rub out pencil marks from the verbal and numerical reasoning booklets while the job simulation exercise was in session.

Nice venue as well.

That's because they reuse those booklets for the next session and they want all the candidates to have clean booklets (with no answers written in them)

Skittlebrau

I suppose I'm one of the 'graduates' that annoy oran12 so much. I graduated in 2003, did my postgrad in 2004 and have been working abroad until early this year. Though at 31 I don't quite consider myself over the hill just yet.

The information booklet for these jobs listed a relevant degree as the minimum qualification but also stated that postgraduate study and relevant work experience was desirable. Clearly recent graduates were not the only people that this campaign was aimed at. Added to that, AO's can potentially have staff directly reporting to them (COs usually if I'm not mistaken) and if you think that being fresh out of college with only a degree automatically qualifies you to manage people then you're seriously deluded.

Granted some recently qualified grads will be excellent candidates and will deserve the positions they get offered but a degree in itself doesn't automatically entitle you to anything.

I'd also add that other 'Graduate' programs e.g PWC and KPMG also have no restriction on how recent a graduate you have to be and actually value less recent graduates who have relevant work experience behind them.

boobar

anbodhran wrote: »

Did the test yesterday and left with the following observations

1. Invigilators in general were really helpful, but nearly burst out laughing at their seriousness when the time ran out at the end of the first test. I reckon it would have made sense to advise everyone that there were 5 mins remaining.

2. Tests were easier than the examples as many have said. The time limits start to take their toll after three tests.

3. The sheer volume of candidates only hits you when you see the huge numbers.

4. Age profile - I was also surprised by this. While I'm all for equal opportunities, the jobs were advertised in the Irish times as opportunities for graduates. In general terms when applying for jobs, you can only really refer to yourself as a graduate for about two years after you complete your degree, and this tends to be what employers are looking for when they use the term. Some of the candidates were older than my parents I reckon - and they're grandparents!

On your point about it making sense to announce there's five minutes left, well one thing that the candidate will have to do in the workplace if successful, is to plan and organise their own work and perhaps that of a team. So, expecting someone to announce how much time is left isn't something that I'd think the employer would take seriously.


On the age profile, I disagree once you graduate you're always a graduate. Age doesn't have anything to do with it. And in some cases many won't start third level courses until later in life. This is very common. Employers don't ask for a particular age group, nor should they.

boobar

oran12 wrote: »

Just because your 50 doesnt mean your not a graduate. I would have no problem with older people who are graduates applying. Graduate recruitment usually means hiring graduates. Sorry to dissapoint those who havent recently graduated but I think the civil service would be of the same view. No point in blaiming me if you lost a job and cant find another one. Do what other graduates do who cant find a job and move abroad and if you cant do that go work in McDonalds or somewhere

What view do you think the Civil Service exactly? I'm finding it difficult to understand what point you're making.

I don't think anyone here is blaming you for not being able to find a job. I can't understand why you're being so defensive.

noodler

Assuming that everyone applying for these positons is unemployed is also absurd.

I can't believe people here actually thought that the Government had an open (or even secret) policy to only hire people who have graduated recently.

I also can't believe they thought they would be entitled to apply for said positions without competition from other age groups, more experienced workers or even those who have been unemployed a while.

MrStuffins

noodler wrote: »

Assuming that everyone applying for these positons is unemployed is also absurd.

I can't believe people here actually thought that the Government had an open (or even secret) policy to only hire people who have graduated recently.

I also can't believe they thought they would be entitled to apply for said positions without competition from other age groups, more experienced workers or even those who have been unemployed a while.

I'm personally glad to see that not everyone i'm competing against has basic cop on :pac:

noodler

MrStuffins wrote: »

I'm personally glad to see that not everyone i'm competing against has basic cop on :pac:

I graduated a few years ago, have a bit of experience but really won't complain if I don't get an interview because of the number or age of the competition.

I have to say, and I am sure others are with me, I would be a little disappointed to be disregarded because I ever so scored slightly outside the top 10% though. What I mean is, to be disregarded without your qualifications, experience etc being looked at.

However, as others have pointed out, they do need a cost effective way to do this.

MrStuffins

Well you've already gotten to this stage without them looking at your experince and qualifications etc.

I think the same as you though. Would be sh*t not to be considered without them looking at my qualificatins and experience and have someone else get in there because my subjective answers to the simulation questions were different to someone else's

obeara

MrStuffins wrote: »

I think the same as you though. Would be sh*t not to be considered without them looking at my qualificatins and experience and have someone else get in there because my subjective answers to the simulation questions were different to someone else's

From the first Word document they had:


The methods used to select the successful candidate for this post may include:

• Completion of online questionnaire/assessment;
• Assessment test(s) and/or exercise(s);
• Short-listing of candidates on the basis of the information contained in the supplementary application (issued to those successful are previous stages only);
• Preliminary interview which may include a presentation by the candidate;
• A competitive interview; which may also include a presentation and/or an additional assessment exercise(s).
• Optional language test. You may wish to have your ability to communicate effectively in Irish and English assessed. See link to Additional Information at end of this document.

MrStuffins

obeara wrote: »

From the first Word document they had:


The methods used to select the successful candidate for this post may include:

• Completion of online questionnaire/assessment;
• Assessment test(s) and/or exercise(s);
• Short-listing of candidates on the basis of the information contained in the supplementary application (issued to those successful are previous stages only);
• Preliminary interview which may include a presentation by the candidate;
• A competitive interview; which may also include a presentation and/or an additional assessment exercise(s).
• Optional language test. You may wish to have your ability to communicate effectively in Irish and English assessed. See link to Additional Information at end of this document.

Suplimentary application?

obeara

MrStuffins wrote: »

Suplimentary application?

Yeah sounds like the top whatever percent in the tests will get a proper aplication to fill out with work experience, qualifications etc. They can then rank those candidates based on that information and call whatever amount of them to an inteview.

MrStuffins

obeara wrote: »

Yeah sounds like the top whatever percent in the tests will get a proper aplication to fill out with work experience, qualifications etc. They can then rank those candidates based on that information and call whatever amount of them to an inteview.

Yeah that's what i thought. Pretty confident of the verbal and simulation but I didn't get to complete the Maths part for some strange reason. Obviously wasn't moving as fast as I thought I was!

Lockstep

MrStuffins wrote: »

Yeah that's what i thought. Pretty confident of the verbal and simulation but I didn't get to complete the Maths part for some strange reason. Obviously wasn't moving as fast as I thought I was!

You only needed to pass that part. The maths was dead easy so I'd say you'll be fine!

bij

Does anyone know what type of result you would need to get through, from experience of doing these test eg out of the 52 how many would you need to get correct and out of the possible 90 marks in the Stimulation how many would you need? are there many people who get 100% so you would need to get very high marks to be in the top 10%?

Lockstep

I dunno. I got 75% in the EU's Civil Service exams and that put me in the top 20% (top 10% was 85% and higher IIRC) although it was a slightly different format: there was a logic exam, the maths was a lot harder and counted towards your result and you had to do the job simulation through your second language.

nehemiah

Lockstep wrote: »

I dunno. I got 75% in the EU's Civil Service exams and that put me in the top 20% (top 10% was 85% and higher IIRC) although it was a slightly different format: there was a logic exam, the maths was a lot harder and counted towards your result and you had to do the job simulation through your second language.

As the Job Sim was in your second language in that assessment, did you feel it was easier or pretty much the same level as the Job Sim for this assessment?

bij

I noticed aswell that they have sub-campaign when they sent the email letting you know about assesment ie. economics, law, accounting etc so they may divide the results into groups, no point calling back 250 people if they are all accounts for example. so depending on the amount that applied for each catergory you might get 85% and get called for an interview or you might get 85% and not get called depending on the competion in your catergory. I could be wrong

Lockstep

nehemiah wrote: »

As the Job Sim was in your second language in that assessment, did you feel it was easier or pretty much the same level as the Job Sim for this assessment?

For the EU, the verbal reasoning was about he same, maths was a lot harder.
Job simulation was around the same I think, although doing it through my second language made it different. Not hard exactly, but different.

delricyo

bij wrote: »

Does anyone know what type of result you would need to get through, from experience of doing these test eg out of the 52 how many would you need to get correct and out of the possible 90 marks in the Stimulation how many would you need? are there many people who get 100% so you would need to get very high marks to be in the top 10%?

You dont get a result in these exams. You get the yay or nay first of all. And perhaps get called for an interview
By the time you get the breakdown of the the scores - you have already been told about the next stage. From my experience, you get told : "Verbal score 672. This places you in the upper group"
This is not a percentage !
No details are released to say what marks are needed to get through to next stage. It can vary for each test

Best way to explain it is that it is very similar CAO system. It all depends on how the other candidates do.

Everything is out of our hands now. Dont worry about what marks are needed. Everything will be revealed in about 2 weeks

Cathen1

Gutted to read through this thread and find out that the results of the numerical test do not go towards your score. For whatever reason time escaped me doing the verbal reasoning part and I think I barely got half of it answered. Not to sound arrogant but doubt I got any of the maths qs wrong and I was as happy as I could be with the job simulation part.
I can't understand why they don't include the Maths in the score.
Oh well, I know my fate now anyway, am lucky to have a job but would have loved the chance of getting into the Dept of Finance.

Toasterspark

Did most people manage to complete all the questions in the 3 assessments?

Skittlebrau

Toasterspark wrote: »

Did most people manage to complete all the questions in the 3 assessments?

I completed all 3. The numerical was the tightest for me time wise.

nehemiah

Skittlebrau wrote: »

I completed all 3. The numerical was the tightest for me time wise.

Completed all 3 too.

Seeing the possible scores necessary to get forward to the interview is not filling me with hope though. I think I did very well on the literacy but the Job Simulation is so subjective that I can but hope.

I did the sample Job Simulation test a few times. The first time I did it with my preferred answers and was told I was in the upper band. The second time I did it with what would have been my second option and got lower band.

What are the upper, middle and lower bands anywayhow to distinguish between them?

Skittlebrau

E

nehemiah wrote: »

Skittlebrau wrote: »

I completed all 3. The numerical was the tightest for me time wise.

Completed all 3 too.

Seeing the possible scores necessary to get forward to the interview is not filling me with hope though. I think I did very well on the literacy but the Job Simulation is so subjective that I can but hope.

I did the sample Job Simulation test a few times. The first time I did it with my preferred answers and was told I was in the upper band. The second time I did it with what would have been my second option and got lower band.

What are the upper, middle and lower bands anywayhow to distinguish between them?

At least you got in the upper band. I couldn't get higher than the middle band on the sample test no matter how many times I did it.

Did the similar tests for Third Sec positions before and aced the verbal and numerical but failed on the job simulation. It's far too subjective.

Graciefacey

Finished all 3 but had little or no time to review my answers. I hope my gut didn't fail me!

wizardmp

i can't believe a lot of people got all 3 parts completed, i certainly didn't!
was trying to get as many correct answers as opposed to getting it finished...