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Possible Irish SOPA Law? :/

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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,104 ✭✭✭batistuta9


    I wouldn't be confident in saying it's any less draconian.
    Take a look at this video, if you haven't already. It explains the potential implications of ACTA being passed.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8Xg_C2YmG0&feature=g-like&context=G2bee4e3ALTx3OdAAAAA

    surely the ISP's wont agree to it if what is said in that video is true, monitor everything on their servers and check every packet - is that practically possible?
    SolarNexus wrote: »
    There is scant details, so we must assume the worst until proven otherwise.

    With what we already know, it is conceivable that a copyright holder could complain that a video on YouTube infringes on their rights and demands that YouTube be blocked.

    The problem with legislation like this is that its ripe for abuse. The DCMCA in America has been used many times to censor critics.

    We should be very wary of any law that has the potential to censor the Internet.

    I agree with this statement but cannot see a law with anything like sopa being passed it's too ridiculous even to be passed in the states, and as i said above ISP's surely cannot be going to take it either


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭KyussBishop


    batistuta9 wrote: »
    i calling this the irish sopa not a bit misleading?
    With the massive awareness campaign over SOPA, a huge number of people have learned about what SOPA is and why it's bad; calling this the 'Irish SOPA', even though it's not as bad, is a useful way of riding upon the success of that awareness campaign, helping to spread awareness about very similar laws that may be brought in here too.
    batistuta9 wrote: »
    I'd go more for the yes though.
    Isn't the law just going to ban access to sites that you can download illegally from, well known sites at that like TPB.

    From what i understand there's nothing in it that will allow them to take down/block sites that have a link on them to download something/copyrighted material on it like youtube etc.

    It seem to be more like the ban eircom have on TPB to be spread to all ISP's nationwide & to include more sites into it
    You can't actually download illegally from The Pirate Bay, because TPB does not host any of the content; TPB only hosts .torrent files, which are (in a legal sense) almost exactly the same as http links; they just provide information on where to get a file.

    In the next year, TPB will also stop hosting all .torrent files as well, and will instead just provide 'magnet' links; magnet links are almost perfectly analogous to http links.


    Now consider this: Google is the largest provider of links to copyrighted content in the world.
    So, what principle can you put into law, that will make what TPB does illegal, and not make what Google does illegal? (short answer: none)


    So, if any such law is put into place to make what TPB does illegal, you can guarantee it will be applied selectively; TPB will be put on the website blacklist, but Google definitely won't (for political reasons, i.e. they are too big, and it would piss too many people off).

    That, selective censorship of websites, is a fundamental threat to free speech on the internet.


  • Posts: 15,814 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    44leto wrote: »
    SolarNexus wrote: »
    Speaking from experience, you will most likely be stopped by making the content available to you at the same or lower cost than the time it takes to "be a pirate". Most "pirates" are acquiring content illegally, not because they like the idea of stealing, but because at present it is cost prohibitive or geographically impossible to access the content any other way.

    Speaking for myself, if you can pay a flat fee and access most of the content you care about, torrents and their ilk become a non issue. I recently subscribed to Netflix and iTunes match for not too dissimilar reasons.

    Sorry but ballcocks
    My last download was Tinker Tailer solier spy, one I defo would have rented 6 months ago.

    Now I can download books and recent titles like the "fear inde"x. This is complete nuts and i recognise this, why cant the rest of yous.

    I hate trying to reason with idiots. Just because you can get something for nothing does not mean that you have to. I could quite easily steal a bar of chocolate from Tesco, but I recognize that it's wrong to do so Andes such don't. The same is true for piracy, just because you can get something for free does not mean that you should jump on it. You are one of those people who feels that they are owed something by the world at large.

    You said earlier that you are self employed, I hope that the service or product you offer can be gotten for free through other avenues and you are out of business so that the point were making can be made clear to you.


  • Registered Users Posts: 137 ✭✭kris71


    batistuta9 wrote: »
    surely the ISP's wont agree to it if what is said in that video is true, monitor everything on their servers and check every packet - is that practically possible?



    I agree with this statement but cannot see a law with anything like sopa being passed it's too ridiculous even to be passed in the states, and as i said above ISP's surely cannot be going to take it either

    To answer your first question: yes it is possible

    two ways of doing it know to me

    1) searching algorithms constantly looking for markers. Considering how well this system works for youtube I say it won't be a problem at all to implement it on a smaller scale
    (when you upload any copyright protected content on yt usually before you finish uploading there is an email awaiting in your mailbox with an information on what countries will be banned from watching your video and who owns the copyright to content protected by copyrights)

    this solution is way more effective and cost efficient then 2nd one below but it creates a situation where a soulless machine fallowing some stupid algorithm is blocking your website because it found a link on it to another website with copyright protected material.

    2) high bandwidth users will get flagged and monitor by network administrators to be honest this method is already in use by eircom

    now to answer your second question/statement... I hope you are right but recent events from Poland prove that governments can be either extremely bold in this issue or being bribed. I can't see any other logical explanation on wtf is happening in my home country
    http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/2044235_700b.jpg
    we did 3 times still doesn't work properly ;(

    To add my 2 words on piracy, until I came to Ireland (age 20) I never (literally) paid for a video game... I've seen piracy evolving from a cd bought from some shady character at the market to megavideo streaming videos straight into tv, and 4gb movies download in few minutes (back in the days you had to wait 2 days to get a ****y 700mb version, usually of a completely different movie) I've seen tremendous effort of game developers to secure their products (the best one I can recall couldn't be broken for over a month witch was a shocker for everyone including game developers themselves ;) ) and then I came here and I never downloaded a video game again... not because I'm afraid of consequences but simply because I can afford to buy them now.

    As it has been said before most of the people (who are right on their mind) would prefer to pay REASONABLE amount off money to watch new releases in hd without all the bs like lags, pop-ups to free Iphones (I won so many of them I swear I would be a largest distributor in Ireland by now), fakes or cam releases where some idiot is walking to the toilet every 5 minutes and the picture is so blurry that you can't see a difference between an actor and a building. So maybe instead of oppressing us try to please us.

    It's really quite easy, put a small price on subscription, make up the rest from commercials and everyone will be delighted to pay you few bucks a month, win win situation... or you can go to war with an internet community, everybody will hate you, any website with your logo on it will most likely get hacked at least once a week witch basically means that your life in the internet will be short and painful and eventually you will withdraw from making money in the internet leaving a lot of bad memories and destroying your image forever. It's to bad their to greedy to understand that ;(


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,316 ✭✭✭gavmcg92


    kris71 wrote: »
    It's to bad their to greedy to understand that ;(

    You are 100% right! People don't mind paying a reasonable price for music/movies/series however these few acts SOPA, PIPA, ACTA and the Irish instrument are all down to greed and the music industry's lust for a monopoly on the market. It sickens me to the core.

    I will continue to media share until I feel like what I am spending my hard earned money on is worth it. I make a point of buying video games because I believe that the price we pay is considerable, however when it comes to the music and film industry I still at ends.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9 gu22222




  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,858 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Doesn't Irish law still make it illegal to rip the CD's or DVD's, that you have already paid for, into a format you can listen /watch on portable electronic devices ?

    Isn't that law killing off CD/ DVD sales and forcing people to internet sites like itunes ?


  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    And the real reason Megaupload was taken down was....
    https://plus.google.com/u/0/111314089359991626869/posts/HQJxDRiwAWq

    In December of 2011, just weeks before the takedown, Digital Music News reported on something new that the creators of #Megaupload were about to unroll. Something that would rock the music industry to its core. (http://goo.gl/A7wUZ)

    I present to you... MegaBox. MegaBox was going to be an alternative music store that was entirely cloud-based and offered artists a better money-making opportunity than they would get with any record label.

    "UMG knows that we are going to compete with them via our own music venture called Megabox.com, a site that will soon allow artists to sell their creations directly to consumers while allowing artists to keep 90 percent of earnings," MegaUpload founder Kim 'Dotcom' Schmitz told Torrentfreak

    Not only did they plan on allowing artists to keep 90% of their earnings on songs that they sold, they wanted to pay them for songs they let users download for free.

    "We have a solution called the Megakey that will allow artists to earn income from users who download music for free," Dotcom outlined. "Yes that's right, we will pay artists even for free downloads. The Megakey business model has been tested with over a million users and it works."


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,959 ✭✭✭Jesus Shaves


    What is the date of the proposed legislation change?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,316 ✭✭✭gavmcg92


    Sent an email to every TD in the 31st dail and this is all I get back ... 1 email from Stephen Donnelly's secretary.
    Hello Gavin,

    Thank you for your email about internet censorship. We are looking into it.

    Best Wishes,

    Arielle Jeter
    on behalf of

    Stephen Donnelly TD

    Independent TD for Wicklow & East Carlow


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,959 ✭✭✭Jesus Shaves


    gavmcg92 wrote: »
    Sent an email to every TD in the 31st dail and this is all I get back ... 1 email from Stephen Donnelly's secretary.

    got the exact same one


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    darokane wrote: »
    What is the date of the proposed legislation change?

    By the end of January is what I've heard, no specific dates.

    The wording has also yet to be released.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,316 ✭✭✭gavmcg92


    Not only did they plan on allowing artists to keep 90% of their earnings on songs that they sold, they wanted to pay them for songs they let users download for free.

    Would love to see what Willie Kavanagh has to say about that... "What? Pay musicians to give away their songs for free? You gotta be kidding me!" :D

    Welcome to the real world... music industry!

    Wouldn't surprise me if that story is true. Just goes to show how far the music industry has their hands down the US governments pants!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 98 ✭✭December


    darokane wrote: »
    got the exact same one

    Same here... I suppose we can give them credit for setting up their mail filters and actually having an automatic response ready to deal with all the incoming emails. XD


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    As a note, the November ECJ ruling [PDF] was brought up earlier (and I brought it up in other threads) suggesting that this law would conflict with it and thus would be unenforceable. However the ECJ ruling was very specific and until the wording of this legislation is released we won't know if it's applicable or not.

    The ECJ ruling specifically mentioned ISPs couldn't be forced to filter "indiscriminately to all its customers, as a preventive measure, exclusively at its expense, and for an unlimited period."

    Presumably the wording of this law will avoid those conflicts.

    Just thought I'd mention that.


  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    December wrote: »
    Same here... I suppose we can give them credit for setting up their mail filters and actually having an automatic response ready to deal with all the incoming emails. XD
    I sent emails to every member of the oireachtas. I got NO replies apart from an automated responder last night from the office of James Reilly.
    I acknowledge receipt of your email. Your correspondence will be brought to the attention of Dr James Reilly T.D., Minister for Health and to the relevant officials in the Department of Health. If the content of your correspondence relates to the functions of another Minister's department, it will be brought to their attention for direct reply.
    Yours sincerely,
    Constituency Office of Dr James Reilly T.D., Minister for Health
    Unit 3, 1st Floor, Chamber Building
    North Street,
    Swords,
    Co. Dublin


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,525 ✭✭✭dasdog


    http://stopsopaireland.com/news

    In today’s edition of the Irish Times, from journalist Elaine Edwards: An online petition against the Government’s plan to allow music publishers and other parties take internet service providers to court in a bid to prevent their customers accessing ‘pirate’ material has received over 7,800 signatures in less than a day...

    That was at lunchtime today. Counter is showing 11,000 signatures now.


  • Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 32,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭DeVore


    Tj McIntyre advises boards on occasion and is awesome. Listen to the man, he knows his sh!t. Top lawyer.

    DeV.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    dasdog wrote: »
    http://stopsopaireland.com/news

    In today’s edition of the Irish Times, from journalist Elaine Edwards: An online petition against the Government’s plan to allow music publishers and other parties take internet service providers to court in a bid to prevent their customers accessing ‘pirate’ material has received over 7,800 signatures in less than a day...

    That was at lunchtime today. Counter is showing 11,000 signatures now.

    copypasta for FB statuses going around
    http://stopsopaireland.com/

    While the exact wording has yet to be released early indicators suggest it will allow blanket filtering of websites deemed to be infringing copyrighted materials by lobbyist groups.

    An extreme, but ultimately plausible, example could be blocking your access to Facebook or Youtube when someone you don't even know uploads copyrighted materials regardless if you viewed it or not. A less extreme example could be blocking whatever websites you stream or download TV shows and movies from (which, of course, you shouldn't be doing...)

    It's also being introduced by means of Ministerial Order which prevents debate and voting on the matter. In other words Minister Sean Sherlock has decided to pass a law without allowing discussion or voting and without releasing exactly what the law will state (which prevents anyone from contacting their representatives to have their concerns addressed).

    He claims it will be introduced by the end of the month.

    You may have heard about Google, Wikipedia, Digg and other sites "going dark" last Wednesday. This was in protest of SOPA, a similar bill being discussed in the US congress. This, from what we can tell, is an Irish version. But at least SOPA is transparent and open to debate.

    Click the link, sign the petition and tell that prick Minister Sean Sherlock to take his bill and shove it up his ass.

    Articles on it:

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0124/breaking32.html

    http://blog.blacknight.com/say-no-to-an-irish-sopa-style-law-say-yes-to-democracy.html

    http://www.tjmcintyre.com/2012/01/adrian-weckler-confims-that-irelands.html

    http://www.tjmcintyre.com/2012/01/legal-case-against-irish-sopa.html

    http://www.joe.ie/news-politics/current-affairs/new-vague-irish-copyright-laws-could-see-judges-block-facebook-or-youtube-0019903-1

    http://www.businesspost.ie/#!story/Home/News/Operators+reaffirm+objections+to+'Irish+SOPA'+law/19410615-5218-4f1d-6997-3184c7102979

    lol@"tell that prick Minister Sean Sherlock to take his bill and shove it up his ass."


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,051 ✭✭✭bealtine




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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,959 ✭✭✭Jesus Shaves


    http://www.change.org/petitions/the-irish-governmentsean-sherlock-cease-plans-to-bring-in-legislation-which-is-similar-to-sopapipa


    There's one of the petitions, I've been eschanging emails with the staff of change.org all morning and they are going to advertise this petition extensively over the next few days

    I know there's other petitions too, Every little helps!


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,858 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    gavmcg92 wrote: »
    Would love to see what Willie Kavanagh has to say about that... "What? Pay musicians to give away their songs for free? You gotta be kidding me!" :D

    Welcome to the real world... music industry!

    Wouldn't surprise me if that story is true. Just goes to show how far the music industry has their hands down the US governments pants!
    That is exactly the business model for Radio and all non-subscription TV.

    Buy in content and give it away for free.


    For cinemas the business model is

    Buy in content pray that ticket sales will cover the cost and try to recoup losses on sales of food.




    Just wondering if product placement in song lyrics / association with ads would be enough to fund a large chunk of chart music ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    Buy in content pray that ticket sales will cover the cost and try to recoup losses on sales of food.

    And advertising.

    Fucking advertising...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,267 ✭✭✭h57xiucj2z946q


    bealtine wrote: »
    A starting petition http://stopsopaireland.com/

    Please sign

    You should probably advertise it in a thread of its own for more attention.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,325 ✭✭✭NeVeR


    How am i only hearing about this now !! Not a word on the TV !

    I've sign it the petition and will be emailing that list of TD's when i get home.

    This is madness.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,325 ✭✭✭NeVeR


    it anyone whats that sig it's

    sopaireland.jpg


    I'll be making more once I get home to photoshop.

    Edit: For some reason the full BB code won't post.. even inside code tags.

    copy the URL of the image and add [ url=" link to stopsopaireland.com " ] [ img ] full image link [ / img] [ / url ] - take out all the spaces.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,316 ✭✭✭gavmcg92


    Just wondering if product placement in song lyrics / association with ads would be enough to fund a large chunk of chart music ?

    Well according to kim dotcom the business model would work. It wouldn't surprise me if it did.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 265 ✭✭Javan


    For whatever it is worth, here is a copy of an email sent to Mr. Sherlock on the subject.

    Hopefully a polite tone and a single question will get a reply with an interesting or useful answer.

    Minister,

    I listened with great interest to your interview on RTE's Drivetime program this afternoon regarding the plans to introduce a statutory instrument to clarify the ability of the court here to issue an injunction to prevent copyright infringement on the Internet. I think you made your points very clearly and with some detail and precision that was very good to hear.

    However I would ask you to address one question that was not posed during that interview.

    You made two points clearly and repeatedly during the interview: that the Irish courts must be empowered to issue injunctions to prevent copyright infringement, and that the 'Scarlet' ruling holds that ISPs and other intermediaries must not be asked to implement general monitoring of all traffic on their network in order to protect the copyright of the rights holder.
    Given these two points can you suggest what sort of injunction the court can issue against an ISP or other intermediary?

    If you can provide an answer to that one question I think it will go a long way towards addressing the concerns of myself and other technology professionals who depend on the Internet for their jobs.

    It is my fear, and I think a fear shared by many, that the court would be limited to ordering very blunt or crude injunctions that would effectively block entire websites for a single infringing document or file.

    Other concerns include the fact that it is not clear that the website holder or copyright infringer would be a party to the proceedings. If they were informed of the problem they may be able to propose a simpler remedy such as removing the infringing file. It is also not clear how an injunction would be lifted or who could petition the court to have it lifted.

    Regards,


  • Registered Users Posts: 22,929 ✭✭✭✭ShadowHearth


    So wait. One minister was working to make better conditions for game and software developers to setup their business in Ireland, so it would make more jobs and bigger income for Ireland, then this feck face cowboy comes in and tries this new law...


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,316 ✭✭✭gavmcg92


    Here are a few post from the anonymous Sweeden branch.
    AnonOpsSweden Anonymous Sweden



    List of European MPE's and their stance (pro/con) towards #ACTA implementation j.mp/yFIkfz #NOtoACTA #anonymous #svpol

    AnonOpsSweden



    @GavMcG92 BROTHER, we heared u, tell ireland we are on our way!

    AnonOpsSweden



    @anonhive nah am more into ireland, izz time to wake em up

    AnonOpsSweden Anonymous Sweden



    #Ireland goverment, congrats, u are now in the eye of #anonymous , #OpIreland is engaged due to your support of #sopa #acta EXPECT US!

    AnonOpsSweden Anonymous Sweden



    #Ireland needs the internets help. Its own version of #SOPA is on the way bit.ly/xW8RAB #Anonymous heared u #OpIreland engaged

    @AnonymousEire any #irish anons out there upset with ur soonish #sopa law?


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