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Possible Irish SOPA Law? :/

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭KyussBishop


    I used that TJ McIntyre blog link from earlier as a supporting link on Slashdot submission; that submission didn't seem to make it onto Slashdot, but they were good enough to roll the link into another submission on the same subject:
    http://yro.slashdot.org/story/12/01/23/1942237/the-behind-the-scenes-campaign-to-bring-sopa-to-canada

    Original link:
    http://www.tjmcintyre.com/2012/01/adrian-weckler-confims-that-irelands.html

    Interesting link in original link (read this, it's an FAQ on Sherlock's legislation which is quite good):
    http://www.tjmcintyre.com/2012/01/irelands-sopa-faq.html


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,051 ✭✭✭bealtine


    A starting petition http://stopsopaireland.com/

    Please sign


  • Registered Users Posts: 137 ✭✭kris71


    Hi all, it's great to see that Irish people are aware of the ACTA thread, please send the video below to all your friends to educate others on how deeply screwed we all might be if it goes through

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8Xg_C2YmG0&feature=g-like&context=G2bee4e3ALTx3OdAAAAA

    We are all in it together internet is ours not theirs
    cheers ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 865 ✭✭✭generalmiaow


    Folks, and especially any DRI or IrelandOffline people in this thread, who are the best people to keep trying to contact? Obviously the minister himself makes sense, but is he likely to change his stance? It seems like people have sent him a million emails but he could be too busy and perhaps isn't seeing them all, and it's hard for a layperson to convince a politician. I definitely think emailing the whole dáil with contact.ie can't hurt to make our voice heard, but is there anyone technology-friendly in there that anyone knows of, maybe from the broadband wars of old?

    Or does the way that SIs are introduced mean that secondary laws are no other TD's business? My local TDs seem more interested in other matters. I had good luck getting replies from senators before but the seanad doesn't even get a say in this. Business leaders?


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,677 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    Gman1 wrote: »
    Even if they knew you were using it, they couldnt do anything about it. Its not against the law to use it, and they couldnt prove you were using it to access piracy sites.


    The isp provider might not be able to, but what if specialists hired by warner bros were able to see what you were doing, despite you using tor, and provided them with the information that you were accessing a blocked website and downloading copyrighted material from it?
    If I'm not mistaken in a recent international Investigation a huge criminal ring, who were all using tor to share illegal content with each other, were busted.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,514 ✭✭✭PseudoFamous


    can't hurt to make our voice heard, but is there anyone technology-friendly in there that anyone knows of, maybe from the broadband wars of old?

    Stephen Donnelly, one of my local TDs, seems to have a head on his shoulders on most matters, and has proven he knows how to use the internet, so I'll be trying to contact him.

    Beyond that, I can see heads of Google, eBay, Facebook in Ireland being very conducive to our cause. Send them an email (you have a better chance of getting a response from them than most of the computer illiterate TDs, anyway) asking them to get in touch with the government in some way, as we've seen that the government piss themselves when multinational companies demand they do something


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,026 ✭✭✭✭Rjd2


    SolarNexus wrote: »
    I don't think it's a coincidence that a person who pushes through this kind of legislation also doesn't actually use the Internet, or at least Twitter, all that much.
    http://twitter.com/seansherlocktd

    his recent Tweets makes him come across as sensible enough.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 703 ✭✭✭SolarNexus


    Rjd2 wrote: »
    http://twitter.com/seansherlocktd

    his recent Tweets makes him come across as sensible enough.
    @Zeouterlimits you should then read my press releases. But I will provide further clarity. No sane person would seek to censor Internet.

    this is promising, but that depends upon his/your definition of censorship. It's a good sign though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 106 ✭✭Redditor


    I thought we might get a few more years before the Americans got to us.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,137 ✭✭✭44leto


    I as a pirate and non payer of any entertainment media bar the odd newspaper admits, I have to be stopped, somehow, but not this way.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 703 ✭✭✭SolarNexus


    Redditor wrote: »
    I thought we might get a few more years before the Americans got to us.

    No chance of that. The US Threatened To Blacklist Spain For Not Implementing Site Blocking Law, and remember the 3-strikes rule? They wanted that to be put into law too.

    These companies have no respect for borders or sovereignty.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 703 ✭✭✭SolarNexus


    44leto wrote: »
    I as a pirate and non payer of any entertainment media bar the odd newspaper admits, I have to be stopped, somehow, but not this way.

    Speaking from experience, you will most likely be stopped by making the content available to you at the same or lower cost than the time it takes to "be a pirate". Most "pirates" are acquiring content illegally, not because they like the idea of stealing, but because at present it is cost prohibitive or geographically impossible to access the content any other way.

    Speaking for myself, if you can pay a flat fee and access most of the content you care about, torrents and their ilk become a non issue. I recently subscribed to Netflix and iTunes match for not too dissimilar reasons.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,137 ✭✭✭44leto


    SolarNexus wrote: »
    Speaking from experience, you will most likely be stopped by making the content available to you at the same or lower cost than the time it takes to "be a pirate". Most "pirates" are acquiring content illegally, not because they like the idea of stealing, but because at present it is cost prohibitive or geographically impossible to access the content any other way.

    Speaking for myself, if you can pay a flat fee and access most of the content you care about, torrents and their ilk become a non issue. I recently subscribed to Netflix and iTunes match for not too dissimilar reasons.

    Sorry but ballcocks
    My last download was Tinker Tailer solier spy, one I defo would have rented 6 months ago.

    Now I can download books and recent titles like the "fear inde"x. This is complete nuts and i recognise this, why cant the rest of yous.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 703 ✭✭✭SolarNexus


    44leto wrote: »
    Sorry but ballcocks
    My last download was Tinker Tailer solier spy, one I defo would have rented 6 months ago.

    Now I can download books and recent titles like the "fear inde"x. This is complete nuts and i recognise this, why cant the rest of yous.

    I'm not sure what your point is. You downloaded a video you would have rented 6 months ago, okay, so? You can download books and recent titles, so?

    What has that got to do with the idea that if there was a service where you'd be guaranteed high quality, new releases, for an actually reasonable price that I believe most people would do it?

    Maybe your threshold of what is acceptable is much lower than mine, but the majority of illegal downloads are ****. Poor quality, missing extras, slow speeds, a fair chance that its corrupt or just fake.

    I will happily pay the 7-euro odd per month for Netflix or whatever if it means I can access that content that I care about, without all the extra bull**** associated with pirating. Oh and that whole legal thing too.

    You can fool yourself into believing that pirating content is free, but it's not. The time it takes to source proper content, the relatively slow speeds of services like Torrents (especially with MegaUpload etc. being shut down). Most surveys I've seen have shown that people will trade being a pirate for being a legitimate consumer of content, if only a service were available where they could pay a reasonable amount for high quality content.

    Regardless of all of this. Content producers must have some way to be rewarded for what they make. If not, they will not make it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 106 ✭✭Redditor


    SolarNexus wrote: »
    Maybe your threshold of what is acceptable is much lower than mine, but the majority of illegal downloads are ****. Poor quality, missing extras, slow speeds, a fair chance that its corrupt or just fake.
    I'm not advocating piracy, but this statement nonsense.

    In order for you to have an option on it, you must have some experience of it yourself.

    A person with even a little knowledge of the torrents and megaupload-esque services know well how to separate the wheat from the chaff, especially with torrents. Reminds me of the nonsense comment about piracy that the actress that plays Lori in The Walking Dead made in an interview. Uninformed nonsense.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,514 ✭✭✭PseudoFamous


    44leto wrote: »
    Now I can download books and recent titles like the "fear inde"x. This is complete nuts and i recognise this, why cant the rest of yous.

    Because you're talking out your arse, that's why.

    I used to pirate videogames, and now I don't, as steam and origin kick ass, and I can get a game in essentially the same method. I have no issues in paying the pittance they ask for, as they usually have quality games at a price I deem fair. I'm getting a quality goods and a quality service, and I don't mind remunerating the developers their usually fair prices for a job well done.

    I used to torrent movies, now Netflix is here, and I can see an end to those days. Once again, quality service, quality goods, and I'm paying a pittance to avail of it.

    The only thing I can see myself pirating in future is series of tv, because frankly, a box set is not worth the money charged, and waiting six months for something to get here from America is a dose of bollockery.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,137 ✭✭✭44leto


    SolarNexus wrote: »
    I'm not sure what your point is. You downloaded a video you would have rented 6 months ago, okay, so? You can download books and recent titles, so?

    What has that got to do with the idea that if there was a service where you'd be guaranteed high quality, new releases, for an actually reasonable price that you wouldn't do it?

    Maybe your threshold of what is acceptable is much lower than mine, but the majority of illegal downloads are ****. Poor quality, missing extras, slow speeds, a fair chance that its corrupt or just fake.

    I will happily pay the 7-euro odd per month for Netflix or whatever if it means I can access that content without all the extra bull****.

    You can fool yourself into believing that pirating content is free, but it's not. The time it takes to source proper content, the relatively slow speeds of services like Torrents (especially with MegaUpload etc. being shut down). Most surveys I've seen have shown that people will trade being a pirate for being a legitimate consumer of content, if only a service were available where they could pay a reasonable amount for high quality content.

    Regardless of all of this. Content producers must have some way to be rewarded for what they make. If not, they will not make it.


    my internet bill is enough, and I get 20 megs and I get most titles within 2 hours.

    To make sure I multiple download the same title on an old computer which I don't care about and I only download Bluray, if the file is not right for my playsation I convert it, on a pirated programme. I do-not take a cam rip because I like quality in the image, but even current, as in the pictures titles are there online for free and watchable.

    You can even download current releases of books and there is no words missing.

    Again i reiterate this simply has to stop, I am of a generation who bought all their media, but now it is absolutely free, I am as most the kids are these days,, a kid in the candy shop.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 703 ✭✭✭SolarNexus


    Redditor wrote: »
    I'm not advocating piracy, but this statement nonsense.

    In order for you to have an option on it, you must have some experience of it yourself.

    A person with even a little knowledge of the torrents and megaupload-esque services know well how to separate the wheat from the chaff, especially with torrents. Reminds me of the nonsense comment about piracy that the actress that plays Lori in The Walking Dead made in an interview. Uninformed nonsense.

    1.5 terabytes of uninformed nonsense. sure. okay then.

    It takes a lot more than a little knowledge to separate the wheat from the chaff, it takes time and whats more, its something I'm disinclined to do.

    If I want to watch an episode of Mad Men, I want to watch it now. I dont want to go to a torrent site, search for the episode, check the comments to make sure its a legitimate copy, download the sample to double check and then finally after all that download the high definition video.

    I will eagerly pay any service that lets me select the episode I want and let me begin watching immediately. Anything less will not come near to curbing piracy.

    What I'm saying is that if they make the content more accessible than piracy does, at a price thats acceptable, people will not pirate so much. It will never go away, but theres room to persuade most people to go legitimate.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 703 ✭✭✭SolarNexus


    44leto wrote: »
    To make sure I multiple download the same title on an old computer which I don't care about and I only download Bluray, if the file is not right for my playsation I convert it, on a pirated programme. I do-not take a cam rip because I like quality in the image, but even current, as in the pictures titles are there online for free and watchable.

    Listen to yourself. All that effort and you'd not pay for a service that would A) make you a legitimate customer and B) stop you from having to go through all that needless hassle?

    How worthless your time must be.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,137 ✭✭✭44leto


    Because you're talking out your arse, that's why.

    I used to pirate videogames, and now I don't, as steam and origin kick ass, and I can get a game in essentially the same method. I have no issues in paying the pittance they ask for, as they usually have quality games at a price I deem fair. I'm getting a quality goods and a quality service, and I don't mind remunerating the developers their usually fair prices for a job well done.

    I used to torrent movies, now Netflix is here, and I can see an end to those days. Once again, quality service, quality goods, and I'm paying a pittance to avail of it.

    The only thing I can see myself pirating in future is series of tv, because frankly, a box set is not worth the money charged, and waiting six months for something to get here from America is a dose of bollockery.


    Netflix it sound like I can get rid of my 40 or so quid a month on sky,, I ask you, will I??? it sounds great.

    Once you get the hang of knowing how to download, it really is TO convenient and very simple, and someone will put it all together in a Log an make pirating even easier.

    I don't give instruction because selfishly I know it is wrong and stealing, but I get it for free, so I take it.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 703 ✭✭✭SolarNexus


    44leto wrote: »
    Netflix it sound like I can get rid of my 40 or so quid a month on sky,, I ask you, will I??? it sounds great.

    Netflix is great, but its very much early days in Ireland. The content catalogue is much smaller than its American version.

    I think its too early to say that you can just get rid of a cable box like UPC or Sky Digital just yet.

    Oh and if you use a mac, the web client for Netflix crashes all the time because it uses Microsoft's Silverlight and the latest version of silverlight is horribly unstable on OSX.

    It's fantastic on Xbox, iPad etc. though


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,137 ✭✭✭44leto


    SolarNexus wrote: »
    Listen to yourself. All that effort and you'd not pay for a service that would A) make you a legitimate customer and B) stop you from having to go through all that needless hassle?

    How worthless your time must be.


    Now you have it. it just simply has to stop. I could get off my arse and drive to a video store, but then I have to bring it back. Or I could just download it.

    Pirating media is stealing, if you watch the ad on any video you rented or bought, they even tell you this.

    I admit it is wrong, why can't the rest of you without any of the crazy justifications,,,


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,108 ✭✭✭batistuta9


    I got it from reddit.com. Which two companies were they? Bear in mind I didn't say it was a list of all companies supporting it.

    one of them was mcgraw-hill but it's actually there under the name The McGraw-Hill Companies, the other was prentice hall i think it was a book publisher starting with p anyway


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,677 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    44leto wrote: »
    Sorry but ballcocks
    My last download was Tinker Tailer solier spy, one I defo would have rented 6 months ago.

    Now I can download books and recent titles like the "fear inde"x. This is complete nuts and i recognise this, why cant the rest of yous.

    your posts have made me see the error of my ways 44leto. thank you. i haven't had a revelation like this since someone tapped me on the shoulder and told me jesus loves me.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,108 ✭✭✭batistuta9


    i calling this the irish sopa not a bit misleading?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 703 ✭✭✭SolarNexus


    44leto wrote: »
    Now you have it. it just simply has to stop. I could get off my arse and drive to a video store, but then I have to bring it back. Or I could just download it.

    Pirating media is stealing, if you watch the ad on any video you rented or bought, they even tell you this.

    I admit it is wrong, why can't the rest of you without any of the crazy justifications,,,

    Okay now you're just rambling.

    Nobody made any justification for piracy, none that I read. Nobody said that we should go back to the physical retail store model either.

    Nothing prevents there being a viable, legal solution to exist where you can have the same or better access to content as piracy at a reasonable price. Nothing other than the will of copyright holders.

    Netflix and Steam and those like them are a step in the right direction.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 703 ✭✭✭SolarNexus


    batistuta9 wrote: »
    i calling this the irish sopa not a bit misleading?

    The main issue with SOPA was that it was capable of blacklisting websites and domains based on copyright abuse.

    We have heard nothing as yet to make us believe that the "order" will allow copyright holders any less capability to censor the Internet for their purposes.

    It's probably unlikely that it goes to the same extent as SOPA, with them being able to blacklist entire domains based on a single link. But the reality is we dont know, there isn't enough information about it.

    So yes, and no.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,108 ✭✭✭batistuta9


    SolarNexus wrote: »
    The main issue with SOPA was that it was capable of blacklisting websites and domains based on copyright abuse.

    We have heard nothing as yet to make us believe that the "order" will allow copyright holders any less capability to censor the Internet for their purposes.

    It's probably unlikely that it goes to the same extent as SOPA, with them being able to blacklist entire domains based on a single link. But the reality is we dont know, there isn't enough information about it.

    So yes, and no.

    I'd go more for the yes though.
    Isn't the law just going to ban access to sites that you can download illegally from, well known sites at that like TPB.

    From what i understand there's nothing in it that will allow them to take down/block sites that have a link on them to download something/copyrighted material on it like youtube etc.

    It seem to be more like the ban eircom have on TPB to be spread to all ISP's nationwide & to include more sites into it


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,677 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    batistuta9 wrote: »
    i calling this the irish sopa not a bit misleading?

    I wouldn't be confident in saying it's any less draconian.
    Take a look at this video, if you haven't already. It explains the potential implications of ACTA being passed.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8Xg_C2YmG0&feature=g-like&context=G2bee4e3ALTx3OdAAAAA


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 703 ✭✭✭SolarNexus


    batistuta9 wrote: »
    I'd go more for the yes though.
    Isn't the law just going to ban access to sites that you can download illegally from, well known sites at that like TPB.

    From what i understand there's nothing in it that will allow them to take down/block sites that have a link on them to download something/copyrighted material on it like youtube etc.

    It seem to be more like the ban eircom have on TPB to be spread to all ISP's nationwide & to include more sites into it

    There is scant details, so we must assume the worst until proven otherwise.

    With what we already know, it is conceivable that a copyright holder could complain that a video on YouTube infringes on their rights and demands that YouTube be blocked.

    The problem with legislation like this is that its ripe for abuse. The DCMCA in America has been used many times to censor critics.

    We should be very wary of any law that has the potential to censor the Internet.


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