Defiance [SyFy - US] [** Spoilers **]

Richard Dower

Mr E wrote: »

I haven't watched any more since the pilot, but it sounds like it's not really worth the effort.

I gave up after the 4th episode.....

pixelburp

Mr E wrote: »

I haven't watched any more since the pilot, but it sounds like it's not really worth the effort.

It has its moments of quality, and while it has dropped the ball a few times there's definitely a good show here trying to get past the dirge. I've persisted with it thus far partially out of habit, partially out of Sci-Fi solidarity (given the dearth of it atm) but also for the previously mentioned belief that SCi-Fi shows tend to struggle in their first season, so fairness dictates I at least give it a good shakedown before I decide whether to bail or not.

If I managed to get past season 1 of Babylon 5 - which is surely the watermark of first-season sh*ttyness - then I can struggle through season 1 of Defiance

As I said, the writers just need to work out what kind of show this is, and then run with it to its natural conclusion.

Mr E

Mr E wrote: »

I haven't watched any more since the pilot, but it sounds like it's not really worth the effort.

Thus far I've only seen the pilot and the subsequent episode but liked what I saw enough to preorder the Blu-Ray. Amazon had it for under 20 euro so I figured what the harm, even if the rest of the show is terrible at least the pilot was good enough to justify getting the series. I do think that you have to give a show such as Defiance a little more time to get things right than any of the bigger shows. Season 1 of most sci-fi shows is where it finds it's feel and let's be honest, some of the classic shows suffered through unbearable first seasons full of exposition and cost cutting. Looking at the talent involved in Defiance and there's a huge amount of potential there.

pixelburp

So the last episode aired the other night and figured I might as well throw in my overall thoughts - add a little closure to the thread - although they don't deviate much from previous comments.

The actual finale itself was pretty poor, a bit of a mess in fact which is a shame because the last batch of episodes had suggested the show had finally become a tighter ship and willing to move in one concentrated direction. Instead, many of the problems seen earlier in the season resurfaced - chief among them was the Science-Magic bullsh*t that is the Votan technology (it really annoys me when patently incompetent writers think that what passes for "Science Fiction" is to simply invent inconsistent magical nonsense, call it alien technology by way of mysticism and hope nobody notices).

Overall, were I a man who used ratings I'd considering Defiance to be a low-B, high-C; it has bags of potential, but it has struggled to push past some pretty bad writing in places. I hope Sci-Fi recognise this, sack some of the worse offenders on the writing staff and bring in better talent to pull everything together next season. I took enough enjoyment out of season 1 to give number two a shot, but I wouldn't stick around for too long if there was no sign of improvement. Oh and I hope they drop the limp, phony swearing; 'schtacko' doesn't work, and it's not a patch on 'frak' or 'frell'

Sudden Valley

pixelburp wrote: »

So the last episode aired the other night and figured I might as well throw in my overall thoughts - add a little closure to the thread - although they don't deviate much from previous comments.

The actual finale itself was pretty poor, a bit of a mess in fact which is a shame because the last batch of episodes had suggested the show had finally become a tighter ship and willing to move in one concentrated direction. Instead, many of the problems seen earlier in the season resurfaced - chief among them was the Science-Magic bullsh*t that is the Votan technology (it really annoys me when patently incompetent writers think that what passes for "Science Fiction" is to simply invent inconsistent magical nonsense, call it alien technology by way of mysticism and hope nobody notices).

Overall, were I a man who used ratings I'd considering Defiance to be a low-B, high-C; it has bags of potential, but it has struggled to push past some pretty bad writing in places. I hope Sci-Fi recognise this, sack some of the worse offenders on the writing staff and bring in better talent to pull everything together next season. I took enough enjoyment out of season 1 to give number two a shot, but I wouldn't stick around for too long if there was no sign of improvement. Oh and I hope they drop the limp, phony swearing; 'schtacko' doesn't work, and it's not a patch on 'frak' or 'frell'

Couldn't agree more with your assessment.i think they have done well in revealing parts of the world but leaving some areas to be developed further in the second season (like whether the E-rep guys are all creeps and anti-Alien). I wasn't so bothered by the mystical elements of the Alien Tech and at least they came up with logical reason why Irisa was special. I presume she will be return in the first episode of the next season and devalue her seeming sacrifice.

don ramo

i wouldn't say its like magic or mysticism, its just technology we simply dont understand, it would be like going back 500 years with a smartphone,

was it me or did it seem that it was the irrats that made whatever it was in the mines and it crashed here over 3000 years ago, and thats why all the aliens came to earth, cause they knew it was here, odd that they irrats are considered dirt by all the other races, when it seems they were the leaders a millennium or two ago,

i wonder how long the e-rep are gonna be sticking around, now that datak is probably on the run from them, wouldnt that leave amanda mayor again, wonder if she can undo what datak done, also i dont think stahma killed kenya, i think she probably hid her away and try and sort something out later, i think she actually likes her so i doubt she dead, i was thiking they would pull a GOT for a second alright,

interesting first season, hopefully they will grow the show more in the coming seasons,

Richard Dower

Holding pretty steady in the ratings, it move around a bit but nothing too extreme, certainly better numbers for SyFy then anything they tried the last two seasons.

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2013/07/10/monday-cable-ratings-love-hip-hop-leads-wwe-raw-switched-at-birth-major-crimes-longmire-more/190789/comment-page-2/#comment-1517960

pixelburp

don ramo wrote: »

i wouldn't say its like magic or mysticism, its just technology we simply dont understand, it would be like going back 500 years with a smartphone,

Ah no, that's precisely what the Irath(sp) weapon was: hocus pocus masquerading broken internal logic. Arthur C Clarke has a lot to answer for because his famous comment that "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" has become an overused cliche, taken as justification for just about any cobbled together technology required by writers looking for an easy crutch.

It was basically a wish-fulfillment machine, complete with magical blue portals, a few mystical visions thrown in, and an 11th hour ability to bring the dead back to life ... because ... reasons?

Again, it's all about the inconsistent tone. The show wants to have its Frontier / Wild-West aesthetic, and it could have kept that if the machine was just something more rudimentary & pragmatic - something that altered the DNA of the supplied race perhaps - but instead the writers continued with the mystical, magical angle that has jarred with the rest of the show since it came along.

don ramo wrote: »

i wonder how long the e-rep are gonna be sticking around, now that datak is probably on the run from them, wouldn't that leave amanda mayor again, wonder if she can undo what datak done, also i dont think stahma killed kenya, i think she probably hid her away and try and sort something out later, i think she actually likes her so i doubt she dead, i was thiking they would pull a GOT for a second alright,

I suspect that here is where the show will again look to BSG for influence; that the second season might run along the lines of the 'New Caprica' arc, where our main characters either become rebels or stooges for the new administration. Rivals becoming allies & all that jazz. I'm also hoping some of the worse characters get sent to prison / are executed

don ramo

pixelburp wrote: »

Ah no, that's precisely what the Irath(sp) weapon was: hocus pocus masquerading broken internal logic. Arthur C Clarke has a lot to answer for because his famous comment that "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" has become an overused cliche, taken as justification for just about any cobbled together technology required by writers looking for an easy crutch.

It was basically a wish-fulfillment machine, complete with magical blue portals, a few mystical visions thrown in, and an 11th hour ability to bring the dead back to life ... because ... reasons?

Again, it's all about the inconsistent tone. The show wants to have its Frontier / Wild-West aesthetic, and it could have kept that if the machine was just something more rudimentary & pragmatic - something that altered the DNA of the supplied race perhaps - but instead the writers continued with the mystical, magical angle that has jarred with the rest of the show since it came along.

so altering DNA is fine as long as you dont bring people back to life, we already have machines that can be controlled by the human mind, limbs and other such stuff, their not perfect yet, but in the future it could be common for people to live normal lifes even if all 4 limbs get blown off, just snap on some mechanical one a few chip into the brain and bada bing bada boom, we are already able to manipulate genetic material, and these alien have been an interstellar race for over 3 millennial, reanimating dead tissue i would suspect is only the tip of what they are capable of, the only reason their stuck on earth is because all their ship were destroyed and they dont have the resources to build new ones,

pixelburp

don ramo wrote: »

so altering DNA is fine as long as you dont bring people back to life, ...

That's not the point I'm trying to make: the curse of Science-as-Magic isn't that XYZ tech could never happen, it's that writers use it as a crutch to simply wave their hands and declare something happened because (in this case) it's mysterious alien tech so who knows how their stuff work. It makes for an inconsistent, unconvincing world & basically amounts to making sh*t up because ... well, 'reasons'. The apparent function of the machine was just arbitrarily changed on a whim to respond to what was a pretty cheap fake-out in the first place. That the cave scene was also laden with 'magical' visual motifs didn't help.

And again, my main point is that it's all at odds with the tone of the show elsewhere; fair enough if by then we had previously seen 'magical' alien devices or they were established to be common in this universe, but this show has mostly gunned for a lo-tech aesthetic when not indulging the Earth-Spirit nonsense seen with the Irathiants. It's doubly annoying because having had the election loom on the horizon for several episodes it was given lip service, quickly shelved and the daft magical cave instead given prominence.

For the record, I'm not just picking on Defiance for the sake of it: as a policy I hate Science-as-Magic elsewhere and when it crops up in things like Stargate, Doctor Who or whatnot it drives me mad. It usually takes the form of 'nanobots' or something similar, but essentially it's just a cheap trick used by lazy writers to solve a narrative roadblock, similar to the idea of "with one leap they were free" or the phantom bus.

expectationlost

think it was some decent final eps

i'd give it 3 out of five stars for the season, i don't think the dialogue is as bad as falling skies, although i find the lesbo titillation embarrasing to watch

none of the alien races are coming off that good, one violent, the other into voodoo

is there anything new in its timeslot next week?

don ramo

pixelburp wrote: »

For the record, I'm not just picking on Defiance for the sake of it: as a policy I hate Science-as-Magic elsewhere and when it crops up in things like Stargate, Doctor Who or whatnot it drives me mad. It usually takes the form of 'nanobots' or something similar, but essentially it's just a cheap trick used by lazy writers to solve a narrative roadblock, similar to the idea of "with one leap they were free" or the phantom bus.

that is more or less every sci-fi series ever created, you must have hated stargate after season 4 or 5, you must have only ever watched 1 episode of doctor who, which his magic screwdriver (i dont like it myself),

i thought they done enough throughout the season to explain why defiance was a special place, with the terraforming going wrong for some reason, the e-rep dying to get in there, the volm attack, it was clearly explained that the ship under defiance was the single most advanced piece of technology ever created by the aliens, it seems it was built at the peak of their civilization and things only went backwards afterwards, leading to the destruction of their worlds, and them eventually turning up at earth doorstep,

i was hoping initially the show would eventually head into space to some degree, but seeing as its called defiance i doubt it will ever happen, i really really miss space based sci-fi:(,

don ramo

expectationlost wrote: »

is there anything new in its timeslot next week?

noting but movies scheduled till the end of august

expectationlost

don ramo wrote: »

that is more or less every sci-fi series ever created, you must have hated stargate after season 4 or 5, you must have only ever watched 1 episode of doctor who, which his magic screwdriver (i dont like it myself),

i thought they done enough throughout the season to explain why defiance was a special place, with the terraforming going wrong for some reason, the e-rep dying to get in there, the volm attack, it was clearly explained that the ship under defiance was the single most advanced piece of technology ever created by the aliens, it seems it was built at the peak of their civilization and things only went backwards afterwards, leading to the destruction of their worlds, and them eventually turning up at earth doorstep,

i was hoping initially the show would eventually head into space to some degree, but seeing as its called defiance i doubt it will ever happen, i really really miss space based sci-fi:(,

i was unaware the was a ship under the city

pixelburp

don ramo wrote: »

that is more or less every sci-fi series ever created, you must have hated stargate after season 4 or 5, you must have only ever watched 1 episode of doctor who, which his magic screwdriver (i dont like it myself) [...]

It's actually not that common, cos yeah, I consume a lot of sciFi (tbh I don't agree that it's common in Dr. Who, it's just more obvious when it does happen; but that's another discussion). I certainly wouldn't be coming back to this discussion if I didn't have a love for the genre

Look we'll agree to disagree here, but all I'll say as a final point is that were things taken in isolation your argument might make some sense. But Defiance's writing across the board has been so inconsistent or derivative in places, that the Magical Alien Device seems like another lazy trope trotted out because the writers aren't good enough to create a better, more coherent pay-off.

A case of wait and see now how Season 2 will approach things; but there are better shows out there to get het up about

don ramo

expectationlost wrote: »

i was unaware the was a ship under the city

from what i recall they said it crashed 3000 years ago and they been searching for it ever since, they hardly came installed a weapon, i may be mistaken that there is a ship down there, but im pretty sure someone said it,

mewso

I agree with most of pixelburp's take on the show. Overall I enjoyed it. Better than most of the stuff I have been watching lately like Under the Dome and so on. One thing I'm wondering about is the tie in to the game. I am a gamer but don't bother with multiplayer stuff anymore so haven't played it but it was supposed to tie in with the tv show wasn't it? Has it done so? Is there supposed to be some kind of war going on per the game because the show doesn't really mention or even refer to any major goings on outside of the town really.

JP Liz V1

James Murray (Primeval and Chaos) is joining as a series regular

Marcus Antonius

Anyone know when/if the second series is due to start back up? Checked IMDB but it just said 2014, 1st series was April 2013 so is it to much to hope it'll be some time this month?

pixelburp

ScyFy released some first trailers and promo material, listing June 19th as when season 2'll start.

squonk

I'm a bit mixed really about it. It was OK but not great. I hope they'll sharpen it up for Season 2.

I bought the Blu-Ray of series 1 and am planning to watch it and replay the game once series 2 kicks off. That way ill be able to stockpile a few episodes a d not have to spend 3 months waiting to see how it plays out b

Agent Coulson

Defiance: The Lost Ones minisodes have been released..

Minisodes

don ramo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1FalIdL_qM

season one was ok, a bit bland at times, but there is a good show in there, hopefully the writers can work it out and kick the show into gear,

Godge

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Defiance: The Lost Ones minisodes have been released..

Minisodes

Content currently unavailable.

mafaa

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ldSx1gUnmA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=So7jwDNrS_M

pixelburp

Not one for sharing opinions on these various videos mafaa, are you?

I wasn't exactly enamoured with series 1, but I saw a germ of potential in Defiance, beneath the shonky writing and characterisation. I'll give the second series a few episodes, but not more than that. Really wish ScyFy started getting their act together!

Agent Coulson

Started last night with a jump of 6 months.

Ill have to watch the last episode again and the minisodes just to remind me of what happened at the end of last season.

the_syco

Woohoo!

FreudianSlippers

Haven't watched the premiere of this season yet, but i was thinking about it this afternoon and was like "nah" and rewatched an ep of BSG instead. Absolutely no criticism of BSG, but that doesn't bode well for how I left off with this show. I genuinely think it's the acting that really brings it down; it's almost like community theatre.