Defiance [SyFy - US] [** Spoilers **]

strandroad

At the beginning of ep 1 Irisa was saying something about her people mass dying up there; I understand that when the aliens arrived they remotely transformed the Earth to their liking, but humans retaliated destroying parts of the alien fleet and killing most of them. It resulted in a truce but that's why the debris is still orbiting the planet and "arkfalls" happen.

Richard Dower

A solid 4th episode...but better then 2 and 3. Datak's speech about respect and not helping to find the mayors sister was great + lovin' the wife pulling all the strings on the sly. As Nolan said she is the real snake to watch out for.

Kenya is super sexy, crackin bod! :eek: - its holding my interest for now, and the ratings are stable.

VinLieger

expectationlost wrote: »

wasn't it terra forming

Yes but unintended and uncontrolled due to the crashes i think

pixelburp

I dunno, I thought Mondays episode was the weakest of the 4 so far; some of the dialogue was horrendously bad, particularly the clunky emoting between the two sisters & the conflict between Papa McCreevy and his son. It occasionally strayed into daytime-soap levels of hamfisted drama. Between this and the Romeo & Juliet knock-off, it looks like the writers' strengths doesn't include creating convincing, human dialogue.

expectationlost

VinLieger wrote: »

Yes but unintended and uncontrolled due to the crashes i think

don't think the terra-forming was accidental

JP Liz V1

Been renewed for a 2nd season

FreudianSlippers

I think this was better than the previous 2, but nowhere near as good as the pilot. My concerns have always been a weak MOTW plot rather than a solid arc about the people trying to survive and get along, and the last 3 episodes have certainly confirmed that. This show could be excellent if it stuck more to the bigger story.

Richard Dower

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

I think this was better than the previous 2, but nowhere near as good as the pilot. My concerns have always been a weak MOTW plot rather than a solid arc about the people trying to survive and get along, and the last 3 episodes have certainly confirmed that. This show could be excellent if it stuck more to the bigger story.

Like alot of these genre shows, they obviously have a series arc....but they would never have enough writing material, so you'll get half a season of MOTW with little snippets in each episode....then toward the end of the season a 3-4 episode run with more info....with a cliffhanger finale.

Season 2,3,4 rinse and repeat. They have a plan but if you were to film it it would probably fill two episodes, ergo filler.

Sarn

Anyone else think that the songs at the end of each episode should be cut? They just don't work for me, are kind of jarring, and don't blend with the rest of the music score.

Otherwise I'm finding it fairly watchable, not amazing but good to pass the time.

VinLieger

expectationlost wrote: »

don't think the terra-forming was accidental

Thats what it says on wikipedia, think its info that came from the game

FreudianSlippers

Richard Dower wrote: »

Like alot of these genre shows, they obviously have a series arc....but they would never have enough writing material, so you'll get half a season of MOTW with little snippets in each episode....then toward the end of the season a 3-4 episode run with more info....with a cliffhanger finale.

Season 2,3,4 rinse and repeat. They have a plan but if you were to film it it would probably fill two episodes, ergo filler.

No, I know that. But there is a difference between filler and MOTW as a format IMO. Look at BSG; filler galore, but it was still interesting within the overall story arc.

MOTW only really works in shows like X Files, Fringe, Castle, etc. - unless Defiance is just another cop drama then it's not right - and I hope it isn't just another cop drama. It has way more potential than that.

sky23

VinLieger wrote: »

Thats what it says on wikipedia, think its info that came from the game

thats weird, thats what i thought first but i think i seen on one of the unoffical defiance wiki page (can't remember the one) that the votan did it on purpose when the pale wars began presumably they were planning on using it in a controlled way if the humans agreed to let them settle on earth but war broke out

Richard Dower

Richard Dower wrote: »

Like alot of these genre shows, they obviously have a series arc....but they would never have enough writing material, so you'll get half a season of MOTW with little snippets in each episode....then toward the end of the season a 3-4 episode run with more info....with a cliffhanger finale.

Season 2,3,4 rinse and repeat. They have a plan but if you were to film it it would probably fill two episodes, ergo filler.

I would expect that someone who seems to spend his days watching and posting about TV would know the difference between a mystery of the week and filler. A filler episode is one where nothing of any real note happens, think of those episodes of SG1 just before the season finale where people sat around and discussed what happened in previous episodes. A mystery of the week show is one that sets out to tell a self contained story every week which feeds into the larger story arch. The X-Files and Babylon 5 were masters of this form of storytelling.

Defiance has thus far, largely been a mystery of the week show but that's perfectly acceptable given that they are still establishing the world and it's characters. Saying that there is not enough "writing material" is just misinformed crap. I've seen the series bibles for a number of shows, including a few that the writers behind Defiance were involved in and lets put it this way, some of them make War and Peace look like some light reading. I imagine that the writers of Defiance know exactly how the show is going to play out and for now they are simply having a little fun telling stories that interest them. After all not every show has to be Breaking Bad or the Wire, some shows, such as Defiance are just looking to tell fun stories and there is nothing wrong with that.

Headshot

Another good episode I found.

Just keeps getting better and better

Only downside is the CGI and especially the army vehicles the end there

pixelburp

The show is definitely growing on me, slowly but surely. When commenting about the varying quality so far, someone elsewhere mentioned that this is fairly common with genre TV, particularly Sci-Fi; nearly every major Sci-Fi show began with a fairly ropey first season, usually as a result of the writers trying to find their feet & the show's tone / voice - when you think of classics such as Star Trek: TNG, Firefly, Babylon 5, Farscape etc. etc., their respective debut seasons could be pretty poor at times. The BSG reboot is a possible exception here, but in general genre TV needs time to build its world & pull its audience into the concept.

So it's good to see Defiance is beginning to take shape a little, shaking off its growing pains, withits characters becoming more interesting and multi-faceted. Little moments like the inference the town's doctor has a hidden past suggest there's more yet to come too. I also like how the world outside of Defiance is slowly being revealed (though the Earth Republic are mirroring Firefly's Alliance just a little too much at the moment)

My only real grumble is the mystery McGuffin device - it's a typical TV trick that has been done a million times before, and a mystery like this can only be sustained so long; the longer its purpose is kept hidden and deliberately ambiguous by the writers, the less interesting it becomes. I feel that point is fast approaching as I'm already a little bored by Dad & son fretting over what it might be.

FreudianSlippers

Is it a McGruffin though? It's a how about the town so I suppose it is by nature.

In any event, the last 2 episodes (6&7 IIRC) were much better - obviously the writers took my advice less MOTW and starting to build a bigger story arc. Well, maybe 2 big ones I can see thus far.

pixelburp

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Is it a McGruffin though? It's a how about the town so I suppose it is by nature.

In any event, the last 2 episodes (6&7 IIRC) were much better - obviously the writers took my advice less MOTW and starting to build a bigger story arc. Well, maybe 2 big ones I can see thus far.

Ok, traditionally a McGuffin is seen to be inconsequential against the drama and action that occurs surrounding its pursuit, but in this specific case I think it ticks many of the boxes to qualify: a mysterious object of unknown, ambiguous importance, that several individuals / factions desire (and are willing to kill for it).

Conventional scripting dictates that keeping it a mystery enhances the drama and tension, but I'd argue that in these instances you're nearly better just revealing (to the audience, if not the characters) what the damn thing does. At least then you know what the stakes are, and why so much revolves around this mystery device. Random dialogue asides about earthquakes, or annoyingly vague references to it just feels like showy teasing.

FreudianSlippers

I guess I just presumed it's a terraforming device

Was about to get stuck back into the show, way behind but decided that I'd wait till next month and watch it on Blu-Ray. Amazon has the series for under 20 euro, which is a bit of a bargain .

expectationlost

the arc brain what

pixelburp

Hmmm bit of a mess, the recent episode; when you decide to

kill off a character

, it helps that the person is already expanded and detailed within the series. As they hadn't been I was simply shrugging my shoulder at it all. The return of the cringeworthy earth mysticism / voodoo of the Irathiants (sp) didn't help mind you, nor did the 11th hour technobabble that turned up.

Manach

Nice to see the show exploring the different aspects of relgion/spiritual though in the last episode, albeit the ending was a bit Star-Trek technobabblish. Interesting trailer for next week's episode which looks to progress the main story plot.

pixelburp

Manach wrote: »

Nice to see the show exploring the different aspects of relgion/spiritual though in the last episode, albeit the ending was a bit Star-Trek technobabblish. Interesting trailer for next week's episode which looks to progress the main story plot.

I dunno, it's just a personal preference/prejudice, but I find fictitious Sci-Fi religions, particularly those that place emphasis on earth-spirits and that ilk, are often hard to swallow & come across as so obviously false. Ok, ironic considering the whole premise of the show is fictitious & requires suspension of disbelief, but invariably when people start talking about earth-spirits & similar voodoo, clunky subtexts and "white guilt" preachiness isn't far behind! It didn't help that the ceremony looked like something out of Star Trek mind you...

FreudianSlippers

I thought the razor rain episode was tediously boring.

CastorTroy

The trailer made the episode look like it would be all about the town being more or less destroyed

JP Liz V1

The show needs more of Fionnula Flanagan's character

Skerries

I thought Revolution was a bad show but this...:(

pixelburp

Yeesh, this show can be a trial to get through; just when it seems like a tone has been established, or the cast finally appear to settle into their respective holding patterns, everything shifts.

I get the feeling that those behind Defiance can't decide if this is to be a gritty, morally ambiguous, BSG-Caprica style drama or a splashy space opera with comicbook stylings & character templates. In the end it's falling between two stools and this is frustrating; there's a good show in here, if the writers just have the confidence to take one approach and run with it.

Equally frustrating is that the most overtly alien races (in terms of appearance anyway) are being kept in the background, restricted to cameos, and instead we have the Space Lannisters & Klingon Knock-Offs as the main alien perspectives. This doesn't work because clearly they're just different Earth cultures with made-up customs - neither races are truly alien. An alien race that challenged the humans' own perceptions of morality or dominance would be really interesting; where they're forced to consider that maybe how humans view life is at odds with these other races - instead this is just Star Trek lite.

Before this show started someone here name-dropped Farscape as a potential comparison - Defiance is nowhere near the quality level of that classic, and even further away in terms of conveying a genuinely alien morality / race. Its writers could learn a few things by watching episodes featuring Pilot, Dargo or Rygel

As for the most recent episode, I'm quite surprised they

killed off Nicki though; I had expected her to stick around until the climax, when presumably the golden Broach of Doom's purpose is revealed. It certainly maintains a sense of unpredictability in the show, which is always welcome

. The wedding malarkey I could do without though; the constantly changing motivations of the Tarrs just highlights how indecisive this show can be.

squonk

I found the episode this week a bit more interesting though, I realised, I haven't been paying enough attention so far when I didn't recognise Nolan's assistant and the fact that he has a thing going with Nolan's daughter. I'd actually wondered if I'd missed an episode but it turns out that the show isn't that compelling overall so I end up playing with my iPad a lot during viewings. Now Fionnula Flanagan is killed off it's a bit of a blow. I liked her character, plus I thought they brought her arc to an abrupt close. It would have been nicer to at least even see a season length reveal of her true identity and her overall motivations. It all seemed to be handled in 10 minutes, if even that.

Mr E

I haven't watched any more since the pilot, but it sounds like it's not really worth the effort.