201 Class Locomotives

[Deleted User]

GavRedKing wrote: »

224 afaik is the only Loco to have had such an accident/incident as per the above pictures.

No idea what caused it but when the MK4s were out of service it was a perfect chance to overhaul the other 201s and give them a once over.

I'd imagine the safety department went through each 201 with a fine tooth comb to make sure it is a one off.

I know the driver who was driving it for it's last Intercity journey and even at the platform in Cork on inspection it looked a bit off, it wasn't until it got to the junction that issues started to arise and alarms going off in the MK4 GC, afaik it was failed in the junction and then hauled to Inchicore where it's been layed up since.

Thanks for the photos. It will be interesting what the rail safety report will say about its haulage dead in tow from Limerick Junction to Dublin at normal speed. It was fluid leakage that caused it to shut down.

goingnowhere

GavRedKing wrote: »

I know the driver who was driving it for it's last Intercity journey and even at the platform in Cork on inspection it looked a bit off, it wasn't until it got to the junction that issues started to arise and alarms going off in the MK4 GC, afaik it was failed in the junction and then hauled to Inchicore where it's been layed up since.

The 224+MK4 was dragged to Heuston and its there when they moved 224 it became apparent something was seriously off. The report is due shortly

Limerick Junc I think was a fuel leak

There is an interesting twist, C class 224 was also withdrawn due a bent frame...

tnegun

From one of the IR FB pages the fault/crack started at a bad weld the rest of the class were inspected and found to be free of this defect so looks like it was a manufacturing fault specific 224.

purplepanda

Not sure if this is 224 on Google view as seems to have moved but it certainly but looks a bit knackered? There's a few other 201's around the yards, some with the old Orange / Black & Tan colour scheme.

L1011

That's a merge of multiple images including a MK4 control car

Nibs05

I see a lot enterprise breakdowns over the last few days, what’s the issue, 201’s or coaching stock ?

purplepanda

L1011 wrote: »

That's a merge of multiple images including a MK4 control car

So no wonder it looks knackered, it's mutated by Google LOL!

Itssoeasy

223 and 4004 rolled into Kent station tonight at 8:37 pm. And then as I’ve said I’ve seen a 201 and mk4 set go into the tunnel and go to the yard but from the bridge. Anyway tonight the train had barely come to a stop and it was shunting into the tunnel and I was walking into the former yard of the station and saw the train come behind the station and go to the yard, and I’ve never seen from ground level so that was great.

Nibs05

Probably nothing but I seen a post on a uk Facebook page (I know Facebook) of 201 with a quote below.

A little teaser of "things to come". Can't say to much yet but I've a feeling you'l like it.

Thrashssacre

Nibs05 wrote: »

Probably nothing but I seen a post on a uk Facebook page (I know Facebook) of 201 with a quote below.

A little teaser of "things to come". Can't say to much yet but I've a feeling you'l like it.

Probably sending a few of the spares that are sitting in inchicore to be scrapped.

Jamie2k9

Nibs05 wrote: »

Probably nothing but I seen a post on a uk Facebook page (I know Facebook) of 201 with a quote below.

A little teaser of "things to come". Can't say to much yet but I've a feeling you'l like it.

Maybe painting retro livery on an existing PP 201.

Board Walker

L1011 wrote: »

That's a merge of multiple images including a MK4 control car

I think its just a dodgy Google maps 3d model.

purplepanda wrote: »

Not sure if this is 224 on Google view as seems to have moved but it certainly but looks a bit knackered? There's a few other 201's around the yards, some with the old Orange / Black & Tan colour scheme.

I saw an image on a FB group of this Locomotive. Im pretty sure its the cracked chassis one if memory serves me right. There was an old 201 class just beyond it also in frame in the original Orange colour before it got the Yellow face when it was just one thin yellow strip across the front.

Jamie2k9

Report on 224 is out. Not looked at it myself yet.

https://www.raiu.ie/investigations/chassis-plate-fracture-on-general-motors-class-201-locomotiv/1625134352168400/

GM228

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Report on 224 is out. Not looked at it myself yet.

https://www.raiu.ie/investigations/chassis-plate-fracture-on-general-motors-class-201-locomotiv/1625134352168400/

224 may return to service, but, I wouldn't hold my breath.

At the time of publication of this report, a tender has been issued to GM for the repair specification; with a view to possibly repairing Locomotive 224 and re-entering it to service.

Interesting to note that the 201s should have a 17.9 ton axle load as per the design specification and official documentation, but, it turns out that a maximum axle load of 20.45 ton was recorded technically putting them outside the 18.8 ton limit for IE:-

Although noted as not being a contributory factor in the Chassis Plate failure of Locomotive 224. The design specification for the 201 locomotive did require a maximum axle load of 17.9 ton (static). Data from the Acoustic Bearing Monitor showed the maximum axle load for Locomotive 224 may have been exceeded. As a result the RAIU make the following safety recommendation (AO-01):

Safety Recommendation 2021004-03
IÉ-RU CME and IÉ-IM CCE should carry out a risk assessment on the implications of the increased axle load of a 201 Locomotive.

Itssoeasy

Very interesting report into the whole process of how the 201 locos are maintained and interesting to read that there’s a tender to repair 224.

GM228

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Very interesting report into the whole process of how the 201 locos are maintained and interesting to read that there’s a tender to repair 224.

There isn't a tender for repair, rather a tender to Progress Rail on the specifications on how to repair (assuming such a repair is even possible), that's my reading of it anyway.

My guess is it won't happen, especially when there are plenty of donor chassis if need be, work on 230 has stopped and 216 is no longer required for the Belmond much of the year so seems no real need for the expenditure.

tabbey

The report mentioned that an engine replacement programme for the 201 class was being considered in 2016, but rejected by 2019.
Not surprisingly, considering so many of them are redundant, languishing in Inchicore.
Also the service advisory from GM, recommending a replacement cupped bedplate instead of welding cracked bedplates, not implemented by Irish Rail.
All these suggest that the 201 class are now at the beginning of the end of their life span.
The 071 class will probably outlive their younger brothers.

Rulmeq

IÉ did not document any welding work carried out to Locomotive 224; in addition, the welding that did occur, was not in accordance with the EN15085 standard. Furthermore, Locomotive 224 did not undergo the design modification specified by SA 08-007.

The welding of the Bed Plate to the Chassis Plate and the subsequent rapid cooling down of the weld material due to the Chassis Plate acting as a large heat sink created an area of high residual tensile stress. This area of high residual tensile stress combined with the high stresses exerted on the Chassis Plate by the locomotive being in service resulted in fatigue cracking initiating in the weld and culminating in the amalgamation of multiple cracks into one large crack and the subsequent failure of the Chassis Plate

In conclusion, the Chassis Plate would not have failed if the Bed Plate had not been unnecessarily welded to the Chassis Plate during Bed Plate crack repairs.

So, no records of the work done, they failed to follow manufacturer instructions, and shoddy welding caused the failure. Sounds about right for IE

Jamie2k9

Have had a chance to read the report and disappointing they ignored a recommendation from GM in 2008.

I am wondering have they only gone back as far as 2010 because they have made the judgment call it would be unlikely it could have sustained the stress or detailed info wasn't available. Did they use SAP system pre 2010 to record data.

Only my opinion but the weld likely happened in 2019.

224 may return to service, but, I wouldn't hold my breath.

This was the first thing I looked before I posted. Can't see it either. Then again they have not fully examined the class by removing all engines/generators so you never know a solution might be needed.

Interesting to note that the 201s should have a 17.9 ton axle load as per the design specification and official documentation, but, it turns out that a maximum axle load of 20.45 ton was recorded technically putting them outside the 18.8 ton limit for IE:-

I find it hard to believe they were not aware of this. Surly they pull data regularly as a matter of routine inspection. Nothing a bit of paper work won't sort.

tabbey wrote: »

The report mentioned that an engine replacement programme for the 201 class was being considered in 2016, but rejected by 2019.
Not surprisingly, considering so many of them are redundant, languishing in Inchicore.
Also the service advisory from GM, recommending a replacement cupped bedplate instead of welding cracked bedplates, not implemented by Irish Rail.
All these suggest that the 201 class are now at the beginning of the end of their life span.
The 071 class will probably outlive their younger brothers.

This was to reduce failures and reduce fuel burn if I remember correctly.

Glaceon

I was surprised to see 224 in the bogie shop on the open day last Saturday. One of the IE lads there told me that they're working on repairing it and it definitely looked like it had some work done underneath. I didn't see any sign of 230 so it was probably hidden away somewhere.