201 Class Locomotives

Jamie2k9 · 10-02-2017 12:07pm

Karsini wrote: »

215/4002 failed on the 0800 Heuston to Cork near Ballybrophy. Passengers detrained to the 0900, hauled by 220. 087 to haul it back to Dublin.

I know because I'm on the 0900 and intended to get a bus from Limerick, which I'll now miss.

Wonder if its same set that failed (loco 217 failed) last night on the 17.00 and needed a replacment engine to continue.

BlinkingLights · 17-02-2017 11:33am

What's the expected lifespan of those locomotives, they're going to be 30 years old in 2024 which isn't that far away.

Captain Chaos · 17-02-2017 11:42am

BlinkingLights wrote: »

What's the expected lifespan of those locomotives, they're going to be 30 years old in 2024 which isn't that far away.

Well 10 were only in use 14-15 years before being withdrawn. The rest are being rebuilt with new eco engines from next year so I'd say another 10-15 years at least in them if they still have a purpose by then.

The 071 fleet is still going strong all 18 locos at 41 years now. I can't see the 201s going 41 years of service though.

The oldest DART units are 34 years old and had their mid life refurb 10 years ago.

BlinkingLights · 17-02-2017 12:41pm

It just seems like a set of proper power cars for the Cork train and the Enterprise would make more sense.

Captain Chaos · 17-02-2017 1:03pm

BlinkingLights wrote: »

It just seems like a set of proper power cars for the Cork train and the Enterprise would make more sense.

The Enterprise stock will be due replacement around the time the 201s life expire anyway.

They'll just replace the DD stock and Mk4s with a version of long ICR sets. Sure 4 years ago there were only 3 Mk4 sets in daily use with 5 sets in rotational storage. ICRs covered most of the Mk4 services.

BlinkingLights · 17-02-2017 1:51pm

If they've any aspiration to do 200km/h it would either need to be the MK4 and new locos or an upgraded version of the ICRs.

The MK4 is designed for 200km/h it just needs an extra braking disk installed on each bogie afaik. They were designed to be future proofed for faster service when the rest of the infrastructure was ready to support it. They initially are configured for 160 km/h service which is all the 201s can deliver anyway.

The existing ICRs only can do 160km/h as far as I'm aware and I'm not sure if the Enterprise has been upgraded to allow higher speeds. The original configuration was limited to Only 145km/h. The old MK3 generating vans they're carrying were rated to go 160km/h

Was the Enterprise upgraded mechanically? I would imagine the DD coach bodies are well capable of higher speeds - seems to be more the odd choice of bogies and braking systems.

Even a few stretches of line where it could get up to 200 on a Cork trip (away from areas where it's mixing with ICRs and commuter Rail would allow them to comfortably beat the motorway.

goingnowhere · 18-02-2017 2:00pm

Enterprise sets are designed for 100 mph, limited to 90 mph as the route maximum is 90 mph

The MK4 and MK3 coaches are good for 125mph/200kph today

The problem is stopping, so above 100mph you need some form of EP braking system

Dublin Cork with the exception of a few corners would be good for 200kph over decent distances

BlinkingLights · 18-02-2017 2:41pm

Irishrail.ie and various other sources seem to mention 145 km/h on the De Dietrich coaches:

I assume they must have done some kind of a mechanical upgrade on those?

http://www.irishrail.ie/about-us/intercity-1

MK3 coaches in the configuration Irish Rail used i.e. hauled, were only ever signed off for 100mph service, not 125, which was only approved for HST in the UK. They may have been technically capable of it, but they were not signed off for it.

Jamie2k9 · 18-02-2017 6:50pm

The DD didn't really receive any mechanical work and they rarely go above 80 on the route to Belfast, there may be a small 90 section in NI but that's it.

They are likely capable of higher speeds but I suspect you will never see it with the DD stock.

BlinkingLights · 18-02-2017 9:27pm

They did have their bogies completely rebuilt and in 2005 had a second disc brake added.

GM228 · 19-02-2017 12:38pm

BlinkingLights wrote: »

They did have their bogies completely rebuilt and in 2005 had a second disc brake added.

201s don't have disc brakes, just their standard thread brakes.

Captain Chaos · 19-02-2017 2:33pm

GM228 wrote: »

201s don't have disc brakes, just their standard thread brakes.

He talking about the DD stock.

GM228 · 19-02-2017 2:54pm

Captain Chaos wrote: »

He talking about the DD stock.

Misread the post!

tabbey · 19-02-2017 9:54pm

BlinkingLights wrote: »

Irishrail.ie and various other sources seem to mention 145 km/h on the De Dietrich coaches:

That is the same as 90 mph, the maximum line speed on the northern line.

tabbey · 19-02-2017 9:56pm

goingnowhere wrote: »

Enterprise sets are designed for 100 mph, limited to 90 mph as the route maximum is 90 mph

The MK4 and MK3 coaches are good for 125mph/200kph today

The problem is stopping, so above 100mph you need some form of EP braking system

What is an EP braking system?

Fred Swanson · 19-02-2017 10:57pm

This post has been deleted.

GM228 · 20-02-2017 10:30am

goingnowhere wrote: »

Enterprise sets are designed for 100 mph, limited to 90 mph as the route maximum is 90 mph

The MK4 and MK3 coaches are good for 125mph/200kph today

The problem is stopping, so above 100mph you need some form of EP braking system

tabbey wrote: »

What is an EP braking system?

Fred Swanson wrote: »

Enhanced Performance.

EP brakes are Electro Pneumatic brakes as fitted to modern DMU and EMU trains.

Traditional coaching stock has the 2 pipe air Westinghouse brake system which is good for well over 100MPH, no need for EP when in excess of 100MPH.

Itssoeasy · 20-02-2017 5:35pm

219 and DVT no 4001 climbed up the hill out of cork at 16:20. No picture just saw it as I came into the station.

goingnowhere · 27-02-2017 5:31pm

GM228 wrote: »

EP brakes are Electro Pneumatic brakes as fitted to modern DMU and EMU trains.

Traditional coaching stock has the 2 pipe air Westinghouse brake system which is good for well over 100MPH, no need for EP when in excess of 100MPH.

Not if you need to stop within existing block spacing. All trains running in the UK over 100mph have EP brakes.

GM228 · 28-02-2017 7:52am

goingnowhere wrote: »

Not if you need to stop within existing block spacing. All trains running in the UK over 100mph have EP brakes.

No they don't, all modern DMU and EMU type trains have EP brake systems, but conventional hauled rolling stock does not.

Trains operating upto 125MPH can stop within existing block spaces using the conventional 2 pipe air brake system and interestingly even EP braked trains such as the 390s are also limited to 125MPH so as to enable them to stop within existing block spaces.

GM228 · 13-05-2017 6:18pm

Cravens wrote: »

What's the story with 225? Any return on the cards?

GM228 wrote: »

All 201s in service except 201-205, 210-214, 225, 232 and 230, all the rest are generally in service bar a few undergoing scheduled maintenance, none of the above (except 232, 230 and possibly 225) are likely to return to service.

232 and 230 are undergoing overhaul. 225 may be in the ramps next year for overhaul, but not yet confirmed.

233 is on medium term loan to NIR since August and is generally confined to York Road although it did come back to IE two weeks before Chrismtas for an exam and even managed a trip to Ballina on the IWT but is now back with NIR.

225 now in the ramps undergoing full overhaul.

Several of the orange 201s have been into the workshops lately for "full assesments", watch this space.

end of the road · 13-05-2017 6:47pm

GM228 wrote: »

225 now in the ramps undergoing full overhaul.

Several of the orange 201s have been into the workshops lately for "full assesments", watch this space.

what would be the proposed work for the few orange 201s should they come back? are there potential freight contracts in the pipeline?

GM228 · 15-05-2017 1:17pm

end of the road wrote: »

what would be the proposed work for the few orange 201s should they come back? are there potential freight contracts in the pipeline?

No new work - unlees the Biomass project gets back up and running (but that's unlikely).

Since more MkIVs returned to service and the Belmond there has been pressure on the 201 fleet, eventually the IWT (and possibly the DFDS/Timbers) will be strictly limited to 201 haulage meaning more 201s are required in service.

15-05-2017 1:43pm

It probably wouldn't take a whole lot of work to re-engineer the orange 201s for push-pull. They'll need a fair bit of work anyway having lay idle for so long and acting as Christmas trees.

GM228 · 15-05-2017 2:38pm

Karsini wrote: »

It probably wouldn't take a whole lot of work to re-engineer the orange 201s for push-pull. They'll need a fair bit of work anyway having lay idle for so long and acting as Christmas trees.

The only difference between the push-pull and non push-pull 201s is the drawgear and buffers (all 201s were delivered as non push-pull type - push-pull type was an inhouse mod), otherwise there is no other difference between them, it would be very simple to make them push-pull, but otherwise they need a lot of work, the only issue with returning them overall as with everyhing is costs.

goingnowhere · 15-05-2017 3:06pm

The PP gear is no great mystery

All 201's are wired up for PP, the door release buttons are fitted and the HEP panel has the selector for PP

The question are the buttons for show or is the correct wiring in place to overlay the door and PA down the AAR 27 system. The 201 in PP mode thinks it is just in multiple with another AAR locomotive with the trail valve set

GM228 · 15-05-2017 3:10pm

goingnowhere wrote: »

The PP gear is no great mystery

All 201's are wired up for PP, the door release buttons are fitted and the HEP panel has the selector for PP

The question are the buttons for show or is the correct wiring in place to overlay the door and PA down the AAR 27 system. The 201 in PP mode thinks it is just in multiple with another AAR locomotive with the trail valve set

Yes the door controls etc are all wired correctly, there were no wiring etc mods made, as I said the only difference is the drawgear and buffers.

The original plan was to use all of them with the push-pull sets using the shackle as delivered, but they were modified with a buckeye coupler to reduce the effect of juddering when pushing a train with screw couplers.

GM228 · 22-05-2017 7:12pm

Something different for tomorrow.

233 is scheduled to start working the Enterprise for the first time in several years following fitting of the MMI system from tomorrow.

Rootsblower · 03-06-2017 11:48am

Interesting

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_frameset.asp?PID=113006&B=ETENDERS_SIMPLE&PS=1&PP=ctm/Supplier/publictenders

BlinkingLights · 03-06-2017 11:58am

They might be better off replacing them entirely, at least a core group of them for express passenger service should be capable of 200kph. It's stupid not to at least have the MK4 fleet being planned to move to higher speed when the tracks and signalling eventually allow and when the coaches are already designed for it.

A few speed bursts on en route to cork would shave journey time, even if the whole route is not full speed.

201 Class Locomotives

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