Pacquiao v Mayweather

Henno30

Is everyone not bored of this saga by now? The problem is much bigger than Mayweather and Pacquiao, and assigning blame is fairly redundant. That this fight hasn't happened is a black mark against the organisation of the sport as much as it is on the would-be participants. I'm honestly sick to death of the bull**** on both sides. Wake me up when they step in the ring.

walshb

Henno30 wrote: »

Is everyone not bored of this saga by now? The problem is much bigger than Mayweather and Pacquiao, and assigning blame is fairly redundant. That this fight hasn't happened is a black mark against the organisation of the sport as much as it is on the would-be participants. I'm honestly sick to death of the bull**** on both sides. Wake me up when they step in the ring.

I agree, the wheelings and dealings are more than just the two men. But, us fans, and us who are not in the inner circles will speculate, comment and apportion blame. Some apportion more to Floyd, me, others apportion more to Manny, for example, cowzerp. Not me or cowzerp are privy to all the facts. So, neither of us can "win" here.

Henno30

walshb wrote: »

I agree, the wheelings and dealings are more than just the two men. But, us fans, and us who are not in the inner circles will speculate, comment and apportion blame. Some apportion more to Floyd, me, others apportion more to Manny, for example, cowzerp. Not me or cowzerp are privy to all the facts. So, neither of us can "win" here.

That's very true, none of us actually know what has gone on and what demands have been made behind closed doors. We can always speculate but any conclusions we come are on pretty shaky ground.

For me at least, I lost interest in the soap opera some time ago. I'm sure I'd be pumped if the fight was actually made but the real sense of anticipation is long gone. The prime time for this fight to be made is long gone. It's now just a question of how far short it falls of what it once could have been.

The big thing that comes out of it for me is what kind of a sport can't make it's top two outfits meet each other in competition, especially given that they're in the same fu*king division? It's a massive indictment of the administration of the sport. It's pathetic really.

tryingmybestt

floyd IMO is now confident he can beat Manny after Manny's last couple of performances

I don't think floyd was confident before but now he is he really wants the fight

both fighters are worried about their legacy as whoever wins will be considered the greatest fighter of this generation

manny joked before theat floyd is waiting until manny gets old.....this could have some truth to it as floyd will know that advancing years will affect manny's intense fast paced style much more than it will affect mayweather's boxing style

floyd will win by 3 or 4 points or late stoppage IMO, small chance of stoppage but comfortable points win for floyd is likely

cowzerp

tryingmybestt wrote: »

both fighters are worried about their legacy as whoever wins will be considered the greatest fighter of this generation

I genuinely don't think that's the case, this is a business and whoever loses will lose selling power, Most people believe Floyd will be the favourite as does he, so he wants to make the big money then continue to make it, prob v Alvarez and cotto I would imagine, maybe then Khan if Khan gets the win, if not even Peterson.

Manny, or more his team-I don't believe are confident they'd win this and don't want there asset to drop in value.

Both wanted to make money and let this build up to where it's at now, but greed by Arum is now the major obstacle as the few % they could argue about won't be near what he can make in 1-2 nothing fights

Legacies etc are made and there will be differences of opinion even if 1 beats the other in the future to who was better, bar PBF who could have an unbeaten legacy and his claim to been the best ever would be stronger than if he loses any.

tryingmybestt

cowzerp wrote: »

I genuinely don't think that's the case,

.

your honestly saying that PBF and Manny don't care about their legacy??? or that they don't care about the significance of this fight in terms of their legacy???

PBF constantly talks about his legacy....he already has more money than sense.....PBF wants to be remembered as one of the best and he knows if he beats Manny and retires unbeaten then he will be...similarly if Manny beats floyd he will rank high

cowzerp

tryingmybestt wrote: »

your honestly saying that PBF and Manny don't care about their legacy??? or that they don't care about the significance of this fight in terms of their legacy???

PBF constantly talks about his legacy....he already has more money than sense.....PBF wants to be remembered as one of the best and he knows if he beats Manny and retires unbeaten then he will be...similarly if Manny beats floyd he will rank high

I said the unbeaten legacy yes, Manny's legacy is made, it won't change if he loses to PBF, some people will still say he's better than PBF.

These men are greedy, that's their main reason for boxing now.

Legacies are a bonus and either way both will be hall of famers

tryingmybestt

cowzerp wrote: »

I said the unbeaten legacy yes, Manny's legacy is made, it won't change if he loses to PBF,

I think whether or not Manny beats PBF is a huge factor when considering Manny's legacy

how could it not be?? the biggest fight of his carreer against the best opposition possible!

horsemeat

talks saying that pac cotto 2 is edging closer to being sealed/announced.

If so that's absolutely pathetic and I cannot imagine why anyone in their right mind would even consider watching it.

Boxing is dying a slow slow death because of scum like Bob Arum.
Say what you like about UFC, but the match ups the fans want to see, always get made 95% of the time.

There is literally one boxing fight the world wants to see and it really doesn't look like it will ever happen. It's a sad mark on the sport we all love.

Scanlas The 2nd

tryingmybestt wrote: »

cowzerp wrote: »

I genuinely don't think that's the case,

.

your honestly saying that PBF and Manny don't care about their legacy??? or that they don't care about the significance of this fight in terms of their legacy???

PBF constantly talks about his legacy....he already has more money than sense.....PBF wants to be remembered as one of the best and he knows if he beats Manny and retires unbeaten then he will be...similarly if Manny beats floyd he will rank high

I don't actually think Floyd beating manny will improve his legacy very much. Floyd has beaten top class opponents for 17 years now. Manny would just be another opponent like the rest of them. Beating Oscar de la Hoya at 154 lbs was a much better achievement. Every one thought hatton was a top fighter until Floyd fought him then people say he hatton wasn't that good after Floyd made him look bad.

tryingmybestt

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

I don't actually think Floyd beating manny will improve his legacy very much. Floyd has beaten top class opponents for 17 years now. Manny would just be another opponent like the rest of them. Beating Oscar de la Hoya at 154 lbs was a much better achievement. Every one thought hatton was a top fighter until Floyd fought him then people say he hatton wasn't that good after Floyd made him look bad.

Manny would definitely be the biggest scalp on floyds record if he beat him......oscar was not at his peak when he fought floyd

manny is ring fighter of the year 3 times....more than any other floyd opponent......manny has been top 2 pound for pound for years....no other opponent of floyd was for so long.....

manny has won more world titles than any of floyds other opponents and at more weight classes.....

manny is floyds best opponent and because of the build-up this bout has huge significance....

whoever wins will be considered the greatest of this generation IMO

colly10

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

I don't actually think Floyd beating manny will improve his legacy very much. Floyd has beaten top class opponents for 17 years now. Manny would just be another opponent like the rest of them. Beating Oscar de la Hoya at 154 lbs was a much better achievement. Every one thought hatton was a top fighter until Floyd fought him then people say he hatton wasn't that good after Floyd made him look bad.

Hatton was a 140 lb fighter and his only ever fight above 140 was a fight against Collazo that went the distance, I would see it as perticularly impressive.
If he fought manny 2 years ago I would consider it to be a greater challange than de la Hoya, now I wouldn't be so sure

tryingmybestt

colly10 wrote: »

Hatton was a 140 lb fighter and his only ever fight above 140 was a fight against Collazo that went the distance, I would see it as perticularly impressive.
If he fought manny 2 years ago I would consider it to be a greater challange than de la Hoya, now I wouldn't be so sure

yeah hatton was too small at WW

hatton once said before they fought that he met floyd in vegas and he was surprised at how small he was.....the thing is floyd was probbaly carrying little excess weight and come fight time when hatton had lost 3 stone floyd was actually the bigger guy....hattons main game plan was to bully floyd and when this wouldnt work it was over

walshb

cowzerp wrote: »

I said the unbeaten legacy yes, Manny's legacy is made, it won't change if he loses to PBF, some people will still say he's better than PBF.

These men are greedy, that's their main reason for boxing now.

Legacies are a bonus and either way both will be hall of famers

Regarding legacies I think it's clear that Floyd's is more at steak. If he loses to Manny his legacy suffers more. Manny has been beaten, and (beaten and KO'd), and beaten by lesser fighters than PBF. Plus, Floyd is a WW, a naturally bigger man all thru his career. Floyd is expected to win more than Manny.

Manny's in the enviable position that if he loses, he simply loses to a great fighter who was expected to beat him, who is naturally bigger, and who has never been beaten. If Manny wins, then that legacy is really cemented, increased and spoken about forever more. The man who beat Floyd. The man who figured the way to beat an unbeaten great fighter etc. And, coming up in weight to beat a bigger man. I know Manny has fought at 145 lbs, but he is "the man moving up" more so than Floyd.

I'm with you, Manny's legacy is made, (a great one), just that if he wins, that legacy reaches super stardom. Great may well become iconic.

tryingmybestt

i.e. this fight is crucial to both men's legacies.

corny

I think both men have made their bed at this stage. Mid thirties is not the time to be creating legacies.

For me the loser can always say, or at least have it said about them, things would have been different a few years back. I think most of us recognise a deterioration in Manny already and Floyd (4 rounds with Ortiz aside) hasn't had a meaningful test in nearly 5 years.

The only thing this fight will generate at this stage is a pay day, nothing more.

tryingmybestt

did ali not create his legacy against foreman and 3rd fight with frazier? also he won title second and third times later in 30's...

what about vitali and vlad klitschko....or foreman.....

bernard hopkins in 40's?

calzaghe had career defining fights past 35 etc. etc.

this fight is going to be the most determining factor in their legacies....it will be hugely significant.....similar to hearns v leonard....ali v foreman....hagler v hearns etc.

tryingmybestt

looks like pacman v cotto 2

i wonder will pacman's team ruin the fight and insist on a catchweight and not at 154lbs

pacman v floyd may never happen...terrible

Littlehorny

Just read on the ring website that Pacquaio vs Cotto 2 could be announced monday in June, both parties have agreed on alot of things already, Cotto's wife is quoted as saying that her husband will have to make a decision on whether or not he is willing to make weight at 147.
Of all possible oponents mentioned this is the worst match up of the lot and as some one already said earlier boxing is dying on its feet because of pure corrupt greed.

tryingmybestt

Littlehorny wrote: »

Just read on the ring website that Pacquaio vs Cotto 2 could be announced monday in June, both parties have agreed on alot of things already, Cotto's wife is quoted as saying that her husband will have to make a decision on whether or not he is willing to make weight at 147.
Of all possible oponents mentioned this is the worst match up of the lot and as some one already said earlier boxing is dying on its feet because of pure corrupt greed.

totally agree...worst opponent....pacmanv bradley, khan or peterson would be much more interesting

corny

tryingmybestt wrote: »

did ali not create his legacy against foreman and 3rd fight with frazier? also he won title second and third times later in 30's...

what about vitali and vlad klitschko....or foreman.....

bernard hopkins in 40's?

calzaghe had career defining fights past 35 etc. etc.

this fight is going to be the most determining factor in their legacies....it will be hugely significant.....similar to hearns v leonard....ali v foreman....hagler v hearns etc.

Those men above are exceptions. Roy Jones Jnr, Ricky Hatton, Jermain Tatlor, Shane Mosley, Julio Cesar Chavez, Mike Tyson, Hector Camacho, all men who faded as time wore on. Oscar De La Hoya too lost 5 of his 8 fights in his thirties. Some pretty badly.

Manny, just like DLH, has other interests these days. He's a philanthropist and a politician now and like i said he was quite uninspiring in his two most recent fights. Will he hit the heights a year from now (probably when this will take place after Cotto)? Maybe he will. But Floyd will be 36 then and it could easily be said he lost because he's passed it.

Whats more likely is he'll lose but in my estimation any achievement wouldn't equal all this 'He is the first eight-division world champion; having won six world titles, as well as the first to win the lineal championship in four different weight classes. He was named "Fighter of the Decade" for the 2000s by the Boxing Writers Association of America (BWAA). He is also a three-time The Ring and BWAA "Fighter of the Year", winning the award in 2006, 2008, and 2009.' (from wiki) For me his legacy is made.

Mayweather hasn't gone 16 years and 42 fights undefeated without leaving an impression either. Will beating Manny eclipse giving 10 pounds to De La Hoya in the biggest fight (in terms of revenue) in history. No way.

If this happened 2 or 3 years ago i'd have a completely different outlook btw. Just can't reconcile the opinion both men are fighting for legacies these days. Fighting for pay days instead.

horsemeat

corny wrote: »

Those men above are exceptions. Roy Jones Jnr, Ricky Hatton, Jermain Tatlor, Shane Mosley, Julio Cesar Chavez, Mike Tyson, Hector Camacho, all men who faded as time wore on. Oscar De La Hoya too lost 5 of his 8 fights in his thirties. Some pretty badly.

Manny, just like DLH, has other interests these days. He's a philanthropist and a politician now and like i said he was quite uninspiring in his two most recent fights. Will he hit the heights a year from now (probably when this will take place after Cotto)? Maybe he will. But Floyd will be 36 then and it could easily be said he lost because he's passed it.

Whats more likely is he'll lose but in my estimation any achievement wouldn't equal all this 'He is the first eight-division world champion; having won six world titles, as well as the first to win the lineal championship in four different weight classes. He was named "Fighter of the Decade" for the 2000s by the Boxing Writers Association of America (BWAA). He is also a three-time The Ring and BWAA "Fighter of the Year", winning the award in 2006, 2008, and 2009.' (from wiki) For me his legacy is made.

Mayweather hasn't gone 16 years and 42 fights undefeated without leaving an impression either. Will beating Manny eclipse giving 10 pounds to De La Hoya in the biggest fight (in terms of revenue) in history. No way.

If this happened 2 or 3 years ago i'd have a completely different outlook btw. Just can't reconcile the opinion both men are fighting for legacies these days. Fighting for pay days instead.

bolded bit in general is the main difference between these two warriors.

Floyd steps up, gives off 10lbs and then dishes out an ass whupping to the golden boy.

Manny drains the f*** out of the golden boy and dishes him out a beating.

This is why Floyd is an ''all time great'', and Manny is just simply ''good''.

tryingmybestt

agree with above....floyd doesnt screw ppl with the weight.....IMO if floyd beats manny he will be top 10 of all time

Frank Bullitt

I would say this fight is more important to Manny after his last fight, and if he is to fight Cotto again then I'll loose all respect for him.

People will blame Arum but Manny is the one getting in the ring, his legacy is on the line, not Arums, thats already in tatters.

Wild_Dogger

tryingmybestt wrote: »

agree with above....floyd doesnt screw ppl with the weight.....

Floyd has a long history of screwing people with age and weight .
His team are very selective, which is good management in a way .

He calls the shots with the lesser opponents . But Manny can't be called a 'lesser' opponent

corny

Wild_Dogger wrote: »

Floyd has a long history of screwing people with age and weight .
His team are very selective, which is good management in a way .

He calls the shots with the lesser opponents . But Manny can't be called a 'lesser' opponent

Deliberately coming in above the weight limit and dwarfing Marquez is case in point.

tryingmybestt

Wild_Dogger wrote: »

Floyd has a long history of screwing people with age and weight .

when has floyd made ppl fight at a catchweight that drained them?

pacman did it with de la hoya, margarito etc.

Henno30

I can understand why Pacquiao would fight Cotto again, the Marquez fight has considerably dampened the hype of the last few years and another blistering performance is needed to reignite it. Plus, Cotto is a big draw in his own right so it's a good payday.

I'm not sure why Cotto would choose this fight though. They must be giving him a truckload of money. He took a hell of a beating in that first fight and there's very little to suggest that this wouldn't happen again. Cotto has lots of options right now, more than he's ever likely to have in the future. Getting another hiding from Manny doesn't seem like the best one.

tryingmybestt

Henno30 wrote: »

I can understand why Pacquiao would fight Cotto again, the Marquez fight has considerably dampened the hype of the last few years and another blistering performance is needed to reignite it. Plus, Cotto is a big draw in his own right so it's a good payday.

I'm not sure why Cotto would choose this fight though. They must be giving him a truckload of money. He took a hell of a beating in that first fight and there's very little to suggest that this wouldn't happen again. Cotto has lots of options right now, more than he's ever likely to have in the future. Getting another hiding from Manny doesn't seem like the best one.

good point

maybe cotto is looking to cash out with one big payday

light middle is probably the last weight he'd win a title at so what else can he achieve.....maybe he'll fight him and if he loses he'll retire.....if he won he would then fight mayweather

i think theres a chance that cotto v mayweather will happen next though

Henno30

tryingmybestt wrote: »

good point

maybe cotto is looking to cash out with one big payday

light middle is probably the last weight he'd win a title at so what else can he achieve.....maybe he'll fight him and if he loses he'll retire.....if he won he would then fight mayweather

i think theres a chance that cotto v mayweather will happen next though

Any chance of Canelo being put in with someone serious anytime soon?