Transgender 7 year old??

WindSock

ItsThatManAgain wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender

It's not just complex, but it's more like an entire spectrum of self identification.

So all self identification issues fall under the term transgender?

jive

ItsThatManAgain wrote: »

Qustion and Sacrasm, yeah it was alittle bit of both. The APA consider it a disorder, not an illness.

Not sure if srs. You realise they're the same, right?

So are you going to answer my question of why you are changing your body? What is the reason for it?

L.Jenkins

Well with respect to gender of course. Someone who doesn't feel at odds with their gender, would be considered cis-gender.

L.Jenkins

jive wrote: »

Not sure if srs. You realise they're the same, right?

So are you going to answer my question of why you are changing your body? What is the reason for it?

Someone else can tell you, I really consider it none of your business. The previous wiki link I provided should give you some idea.

pickarooney

iguana wrote: »

Of course it is. When I was a child I loved 'boy stuff' far more than most 'girl stuff' but I never, ever wanted to be a boy. I loved being a girl and thought being a girl was not only fantastic but had a long list of reasons why being a girl was in fact much better than being a boy.

There is a very, very big difference between preferring much/all of the 'lifestyle' associated with the opposite gender and wanting to be the opposite gender.

There's an even bigger difference between wanting to be the opposite sex and actually being the opposite sex, psychologically, IMO.

WonderWoman!

Sonics2k wrote: »

*gets popcorn*

Is there space in the front row ?:rolleyes:

L.Jenkins

pickarooney wrote: »

There's an even bigger difference between wanting to be the opposite sex and actually being the opposite sex, psychologically, IMO.

Actually from other people I've met who are Trans, there is no real difference.

WindSock

ItsThatManAgain wrote: »

Well with respect to gender of course. Someone who doesn't feel at odds with their gender, would be considered cis-gender.

Would I have been considered cis-gender as a child? I didn't like playing with girls things, wearing girls clothes and doing girls things so much so that in my linear though process I thought I must have been a boy if I didn't like being a girl. I did come to terms with my gender, eventually and realise it was a phase, and an understanding that i don't have to act 'girly' or be 'girly' to be a female.

All I can say is thankfully I didn't get diagnosed as having some 'disorder' and be given some sort of complex that didn't really exist to begin with. Just a pure social construction*


*no I am not saying this is what it is for tg, that is why I believe it would have to be deeper than not identifying with gender stereotypes. I am just wondering what it is.

jive

ItsThatManAgain wrote: »

Someone else can tell you, I really consider it none of your business. The previous wiki link I provided should give you some idea.

Ok. Why not say that initially when I had asked the question? I don't understand your attitude. You ask me to provide a reputable source and I do. For someone who was condescending when entering into conversation with me I find it hilarious that you then fail to comprehend the most basic of terms regarding your own mental illness. If you were not willing to answer my initial question then you shouldn't have bothered replying to me as this is a discussion forum believe it or not.

Perhaps someone else will address my question then. Is the change in appearance solely limited to concerns about physical appearance? Or does it make you feel better on a hormonal level? Genital mutilation baffles me.

L.Jenkins

Well it can be further categorised into gender (the social constructed one) and sex (physical). Sex is primarily male or female, I identify as female. Gender defines how I should behave as a female, to want kids and play the proper little house wife. To be honest, that sort of life doesn't quite suit me at the moment, so I could be referred to as genderqueer and transgender.

You don't identify as anything other than the physical sex you were born to, so that implies that you are cis-gender. If you don't identify in your gender role or don't feel like you should subscribe to everything that is considered female then you could if you so choose, identify as genderqueer. Doesn't make you any less female identifing and cis-gender.

Seachmall

WindSock wrote: »

Would I have been considered cis-gender as a child? I didn't like playing with girls things, wearing girls clothes and doing girls things so much so that in my linear though process I thought I must have been a boy if I didn't like being a girl. I did come to terms with my gender, eventually and realise it was a phase, and an understanding that i don't have to act 'girly' or be 'girly' to be a female.

All I can say is thankfully I didn't get diagnosed as having some 'disorder' and be given some sort of complex that didn't really exist to begin with. Just a pure social construction

Wanting to be skinny is not a disorder, obsessing over it is.

In eating disorders it's the obsession of wanting a specific appearance that is the disorder, the act of starving yourself is simply a result of it and not necessarily a defining characteristic.

Likewise it's the preoccupation or feeling of discomfort that defines gender disorder. Not the wanting to do girl/guy things (which, I'm guessing, may not occur in all transgender folk).

Haelium

ItsThatManAgain wrote: »

gender (the social constructed one)

If gender is a social construct, then why are we paying any attention to it? Surely sex is the only relevant distinction, and thus transsexualism is unnecessary.

L.Jenkins

Haelium wrote: »

If gender is a social construct, then why are we paying any attention to it? Surely sex is the only relevant distinction, and thus transsexualism is unnecessary.

I am focusing on sex. I focus on the term Transgender, as it's an umbrella term.

kisaragi

jive wrote: »

Ok. Why not say that initially when I had asked the question? I don't understand your attitude. You ask me to provide a reputable source and I do. For someone who was condescending when entering into conversation with me I find it hilarious that you then fail to comprehend the most basic of terms regarding your own mental illness. If you were not willing to answer my initial question then you shouldn't have bothered replying to me as this is a discussion forum believe it or not.

Perhaps someone else will address my question then. Is the change in appearance solely limited to concerns about physical appearance? Or does it make you feel better on a hormonal level? Genital mutilation baffles me.

You seem to be using a lot of language with negative connotations when referring to trans people. While GID is listed in the DSM as a disorder (not illness), it doesn't mean one can't be sensitive with the language they use. You're obviously trying to be confrontational. Gender reassignment surgery is not the same as genital mutilation, a term which would remind most people of forced female circumcision.

I'm not trans, and I'm not sure I understand your question, but naturally having a body that you feel right in will make you happier?

CreepingDeath

ItsThatManAgain wrote: »

I focus on the term Transgender, as it's an umbrella term.

You think you're an umbrella now ?

If my seven year old son tells me he's gay because he doesn't want to kiss a girl, I'll laugh because that's before puberty. If my seven year old son tells me he's a girl because he likes ponies and girls clothes, I'll laugh because that's before puberty.

How anyone can let something so drastic happen to a child before puberty is beyond me.. If he really is a girl, then after puberty is when the process should start. Whether it be sexual identity or sexual preference, I think puberty has to be reached for a body to really be in tune with it's head. Until then, raise him as a boy like every other transgender in the world who has turned out just fine.

I mean, what happens if he hits puberty wearing a dress and suddenly wants to kiss girls as a boy.. All that conditioning has to be reversed. That's too big a risk to take in my book. I teach 7 year olds every day and in my opinion, there's no way any of them could be regarded as fit to decide such a thing.

L.Jenkins

CreepingDeath wrote: »

You think you're an umbrella now ?

Oh look an educated opinion. This isn't TD or TCN buddy!

CreepingDeath

ItsThatManAgain wrote: »

Oh look an educated opinion. This isn't TD or TCN buddy!

Neither is it LGBT, a bit of humour is allowed.

Irish Guitarist

I'm glad I'm not growing up in modern day America or my parents might think I'm transgender.

I had a doll when I was about two years old and a few years later I went through a brief phase of being interested in the Care Bears comic (mainly because Marvel Comics published things like Transformers, Spiderman and Zoids so I started trying to collect every single comic they published).

I think it's dangerous to assume that every male child who has hobbies that are usually associated with girls is transgender. Also ponies are great. Who wouldn't want one (especially a Shetland pony)?

L.Jenkins

CreepingDeath wrote: »

Neither is it LGBT, a bit of humour is allowed.

I seen an infantile remark and felt compelled to reply. But you're right, this isn't the LGBT forum so why is this thread here in AH. Maybe it would be wise for certain people to learn a thing or two and drop the insensitivity.

L.Jenkins

Deleted User wrote: »

I teach 7 year olds every day and in my opinion, there's no way any of them could be regarded as fit to decide such a thing.

That's what medical professionals are for.

Seachmall

ItsThatManAgain wrote: »

That's what medical professionals are for.

Medical professionals diagnose kids, they don't decide for the kid.

jive

kisaragi wrote: »

You seem to be using a lot of language with negative connotations when referring to trans people. While GID is listed in the DSM as a disorder (not illness), it doesn't mean one can't be sensitive with the language they use. You're obviously trying to be confrontational. Gender reassignment surgery is not the same as genital mutilation, a term which would remind most people of forced female circumcision.

I'm not trans, and I'm not sure I understand your question, but naturally having a body that you feel right in will make you happier?

The DSM is the 'Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders'. Disorder and illness are one and the same. Gender reassignment is genital mutilation, IMO. I respect that many people will disagree with that opinion, but I digress. I'm not trying to be confrontational, maybe the words I have chosen aren't the most PC, I don't know nor do I care as anyone worth their weight in salt will realise they are different words for the same thing (neither of which are derogatory), I genuinely just want an answer to my question (it's not exactly an outlandish question either).

I want to know the answer because, and while I accept there are differences, I am curious as to why wanting to change your appearance under the guise of gender identity issues is in any way different to body dysmorphic disorder. I'm all ears if anyone wants to educate me and this is not an attempt at an inflammatory question, I'm sure most will realise I'm not a retard and am genuinely curious.

L.Jenkins

Seachmall wrote: »

Medical professionals diagnose kids, they don't decide for the kid.

The legal system, best practice and parental consent does the rest. No person will receive HRT before the onset of puberty and SRS before 18 regardless.

ItsThatManAgain

ItsThatManAgain wrote: »

That's what medical professionals are for.

I don't think any medical professional should diagnose a child for gender identity before puberty.. And I don't think any medical professional is really fit to analyze anyone on this subject. Usually a person will spend many years self-analyzing before accepting they're of the wrong gender.
Facilitating the change so young is extremely irresponsible. All you have is meaningless likes and dislikes at the age of 7. There's no deep thought on it.

Seachmall

ItsThatManAgain wrote: »

The legal system, best practice and parental consent does the rest. No person will receive HRT before the onset of puberty and SRS before 18 regardless.

Ads By Google said you couldn't rely on a young child to decide if they've Gender Disorder, you said a doctor would decide that which is obviously wrong. They diagnose disorders, they don't decide if they exist or not.

Maybe a semantic difference but I think you misread ABG's post hence my correction. Unless I'm mistaken in which case apologies.

L.Jenkins

Ads, nothing is facilitated before puberty and I seriously mean that. At that age there has to be a method of continuous assesment. I assure you that hormones will not be given on their 13th birthday like any other present.

This isn't something you choose when you wake up one morning.

ItsThatManAgain

ItsThatManAgain wrote: »

Ads, nothing is facilitated before puberty and I seriously mean that. At that age there has to be a method of continuous assesment. I assure you that hormones will not be given on their 13th birthday like any other present.

This isn't something you choose when you wake up one morning.

So isn't it safer to treat the child as a boy until fit to make a decision.. Social stigmas and bullying etc. could deter him from making the right choices later on when he is mature enough. Kids are evil creatures.. The kid will hate the process of becoming a girl years before he can even comprehend or have the opportunity to do it.

All in all, it's wrong.. Out of sheer interest, I'm going to ask my transgender friend in the Philippines what she thinks of it.. He began the process in her twenties. ie. He>She. I've even watched an entire video of the genital medical procedure from start to finish so you shouldn't consider my opinion as completely ignorant.

samina

The thoughts of a 2 year old questioning that and expressing the fact that they are in the wrong body is sheer stupidity.

How does this affect the other members of the scout group re toileting and camping etc. Should the other children be made aware of the situation to prevent confusion that would embarrass the child. And if so why should other people have a conversation such as this with their children forced on them. The mother is being ridiculous forcing the girl scouts to admit a boy, long and short of it he is a boy.

WindSock

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't think any medical professional should diagnose a child for gender identity before puberty.. And I don't think any medical professional is really fit to analyze anyone on this subject. Usually a person will spend many years self-analyzing before accepting they're of the wrong gender.
Facilitating the change so young is extremely irresponsible. All you have is meaningless likes and dislikes at the age of 7. There's no deep thought on it.

Yeah it doesn't make sense to make a diagnosis at such an early age. Although there was a newspaper publication a few weeks ago about more parents being concerned about their childrens gender identity.
The TENI had parents of children from 10 - 22 coming to them. Guess these are the more appropriate age ranges to be questioning identity in children.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/weekend/2011/1210/1224308848909.html

AN IRISH ORGANISATION dealing with gender-identity issues has seen a sudden rise in the number of families wanting to talk about transgender children. An increasing number of Irish parents of children with gender-identity issues are coming out on behalf of their kids.

Over the past two months, Transgender Equality Network Ireland has fielded calls from parents of transgender children, or from children who express gender-identity issues. They may be boys who see themselves as girls, or vice versa, or may be experiencing uncertainty about, or discomfort with, their physical gender.

“We didn’t know these people existed six months ago,” says Broden Giambrone, the director of the organisation, “so clearly there’s a critical mass happening where people are acknowledging this issue.”

The increase began after Vanessa Lacey of Teni appeared in the media. The organisation arranged a meeting last month for families of transgender – or “trans” – people in Carlow. “It was the most emotionally charged group I ever facilitated,” says Lacey.

Thirteen people, including two parents from Kerry and one aunt of a transgender child, travelled to the meeting. For many it was the first time they had met parents in situations similar to their own. “They just talked, talked, talked,” says Lacey. “They just wanted to express themselves.” The children being discussed at the meeting ranged in age from 10 to 22.

“Society seems to be undergoing a change in having this language now, with people able to hear it and being able to say it,” Giambrone says. “If you are trans and you are able to transition at a young age, your experience is totally different. Your self-esteem is better, you can build relationships, you don’t have to suppress your identity for 20, 30, 40 years.”

Lacey, a mother of two boys, says her family found it hard to come to terms with her own gender identity. “Family is extremely important,” she says, “Trans people would suffer from the isolation and rejection. The key to that is dialogue and more dialogue, because it breaks down the fear.”

Awareness may be growing, but Ireland has made slow progress in developing support for parents, families and the children themselves. “If you’re a parent and your child has expressed anything around gender-identity issues, there’s not a significant amount of professionals with a large amount of experience here,” Giambrone says.“Parents come to us and they’re so scared.”

Some Irish children with gender-identity issues have been referred to the UK because of the limited services here. Lacey tells of one Irish family with a 10-year-old transgender child that has recently moved to London to access services.

So how do parents approach and discuss these issues with a child who is questioning his or her gender? Dr Wallace Wong, a clinical psychologist in British Columbia, Canada, has just published a children’s book called When Kathy Is Keith , inspired by stories from his own clients.

“I’ve been working for trans youths and children for a number of years,” says Wong. “A lot of kids are circling with these issues alone and can’t find any material out there. And also parents wished they had something they could relate to and read to their children. There were no books about it, so I decided to write about it.”

Gender identity is a separate issue from sexual orientation, he emphasies, and needs to be dealt with at an earlier stage. “A child becomes aware of their own gender at three or four years old,” Wong says.

“If kids have transgender issues they can come to realise it at that time, to notice something unusual. Sexual orientation is totally different; that’s about who you’re attracted to . . . That develops around puberty.”

Wong says parents need “multiple layers” of support. “Talking to professionals is important. That’s a number-one priority, be it a family doctor, a psychologist or other medical professionals,” he says. “Then, having information readily available to parents is important, and information that is coming from accurate sources, not just the internet . . . You need parent groups to see how other parents cope who might be ahead of them in the game. It’s very comforting to know ‘I’m not alone’ and see people who can make it through and be successful and learn how to make it work.”

Wong hopes When Kathy Is Keith will become available in school libraries in Canada. “A lot of people may argue, ‘Should kids learn about these things at such an early age?’ The answer is yes, as long as we use the language and content that fits the stages of development of children,” Wong says, “Any time is a good time to talk about anything as long as you use the content and language that fit the children’s stage.”