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Transgender 7 year old??

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    #92
    yawha
    Closed Accounts Posts: 695 ✭✭✭yawha


    ItsThatManAgain wrote: »
    Since our last engagement, it's obvious that you've done little reading to educate yourself. The male and female are of course made up of the same mushy material, but are structured in two different ways. Areas of the brain that would give rise to one identifying as a female would be the same for me, as it would for any female.

    It can also be shown that ones area of the brain that controls sexual attration is the same size in gay males as it is in straight females. So it's alittle flippant to dismiss transsexuality as a disorder or mental illness previously tossed around this evening.
    Wat?

    I never said anything about mental illness or disorder.

    I understand that there is some evidence to suggest differences in brain structures between males and females.

    Are you saying that these correlate with gender stereotypes? That is the only thing I completely reject.


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    #93
    Millicent
    Registered Users Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭Millicent


    yawha wrote: »
    But how do you decide that a child has identified as transgender or not?

    Based on this article, I see nothing but "the child does not conform to gender stereotypes, therefore child is transgender" logic. I see this in pretty much all articles on transgenderism (hell, I see it a lot from transgender people on transgender forums online). It baffles me.

    Em, the child has told people she's a girl. That's a pretty strong self identification.


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    #94
    Links234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    pickarooney wrote: »
    Is it possible to support the hypothesis of transgenderism in infants without tacitly perpetuating the notion of natural gender roles in children such as what toys to play with or what clothes to wear?

    yes, it is.


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    #95
    44leto
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,137 ✭✭✭44leto


    yawha wrote: »
    Wat?

    I never said anything about mental illness or disorder.

    I understand that there is some evidence to suggest differences in brain structures between males and females.

    Are you saying that these correlate with gender stereotypes? That is the only thing I completely reject.

    Not some evidence, overwhelming evidence, the brains of male and female are different. The hormonal flows are also different, the genes are different.

    Some people are unfortunate to be born with the xx chromosome but have the body parts of male. The opposite can happen to a genetic xy male but with female parts.

    This is not always the case with transgendered people it can be the brain is female/male while the body is not.

    But it is a medical condition and unfortunate for the people that suffer it. But modern medicine/surgery can make their lives more comfortable, its a pity society doesn't always.


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    #96
    L.Jenkins
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 19,240 Mod ✭✭✭✭L.Jenkins


    jive wrote: »
    Why are you changing your body then? No need to be such a condescending prat, btw. As you should know, many believe that it is a mental illness and are well entitled to that opinion given what is known about it.

    See previous post. You've yet to answer my question and I don't see a reason to threat you like a reasonable adult until you do.
    yawha wrote: »
    Wat?

    I never said anything about mental illness or disorder.

    I understand that there is some evidence to suggest differences in brain structures between males and females.

    Are you saying that these correlate with gender stereotypes? That is the only thing I completely reject.

    It isn't a correlation, but Neuroscience has done a lot to reinforce the idea. I'll take a scientists word for it over an opinion any day.


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    #97
    Links234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    also... *sigh* at yet another AH thread where we have to wade through the exhausting rigmarole of establishing that transsexuality is indeed a very real thing.

    guys, pretty much anyone who is transgender will tell you that they have known since they were quite young. it's a blessing that there are parents who are strong enough, and understanding enough, to listen to their children on this matter. because it's not something that ever goes away.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDJXR1wXofA


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    #98
    jive
    Registered Users Posts: 5,762 ✭✭✭jive


    ItsThatManAgain wrote: »
    See previous post. You've yet to answer my question and I don't see a reason to threat you like a reasonable adult until you do.

    You never asked me a question


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    #99
    Buceph
    Registered Users Posts: 2,059 ✭✭✭Buceph


    desertcircus wrote: »
    Do you have a point to go with that?

    I believe the point he's trying to get across is, "hurf blurf PC gone mad!!!"


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    #100
    L.Jenkins
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 19,240 Mod ✭✭✭✭L.Jenkins


    ItsThatManAgain wrote: »
    ...Put down the bible son and find me a reputable source and I may change my ways.
    jive wrote: »
    You never asked me a question

    Doesn't always need a question mark at the end. :rolleyes:


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    #101
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,310 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    of course it's real
    but i suppose the argument is equivalent to the "do they really have adhd or are they just being bold?"
    it's impossible for any of us to know from an article anyway


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    #102
    Links234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    yawha wrote: »
    I understand that there is some evidence to suggest differences in brain structures between males and females.

    Are you saying that these correlate with gender stereotypes? That is the only thing I completely reject.

    the current understanding is that brain structures have huge implications in terms of body image or body mapping. see some of the work of neurologist VS Ramachandran (the man who proved that there was a physical reason for phantom limb sensations) on the subject.

    they don't necessarily correlate with gender stereotypes at all, but that a transgender child who most likely doesn't have the words to express what they're feeling, and may identify with the stereotypes of their gender as a way of expressing themselves. you're kinda putting the cart before the horse here. it's not "I like girls/boys things, therefor I am a girl/boy", but rather "I am a girl/boy, therefor I like girls/boys thing". expressing their interest in certain things that are deemed feminine or masculine may be the only way they can express how they feel.


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    #103
    L.Jenkins
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 19,240 Mod ✭✭✭✭L.Jenkins


    bluewolf wrote: »
    of course it's real
    but i suppose the argument is equivalent to the "do they really have adhd or are they just being bold?"
    it's impossible for any of us to know from an article anyway

    http://newideas.net/adhd/neurology

    An MRI should prove the latter false.


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    #104
    Links234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    ItsThatManAgain wrote: »
    http://newideas.net/adhd/neurology

    An MRI should prove the latter false.

    reason won't get in the way of someone who thinks "sure the whole ADHD thing is a load of rubbish, they just need a good smack!" though!


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    #105
    jive
    Registered Users Posts: 5,762 ✭✭✭jive


    ItsThatManAgain wrote: »
    Doesn't always need a question mark at the end. :rolleyes:

    I thought it was sarcasm. Next time you ask someone a question don't start it off with a condescending mark about religion, particularly if they are not religious. The American Psychiatric Association, for one. Why even ask the question? Surely you know of various, reliable, sources that classify it as a mental illness.


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    #106
    L.Jenkins
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 19,240 Mod ✭✭✭✭L.Jenkins


    Links234 wrote: »
    reason won't get in the way of someone who thinks "sure the whole ADHD thing is a load of rubbish, they just need a good smack!" though!

    They should work with kids who have ADHD and see what good a smack would do. Transgenderism is much the same.


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    #107
    Seachmall
    Registered Users Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    Tonyandthewhale wrote: »
    <snip>
    I think I agree with all that.

    Like I said before I'm not arguing that the kid is or isn't/could be or couldn't be transgender, I don't know. I'm simply sceptical as to whether or not a child so young could make that distinction, if not then why does he seem to think so?

    If they could then I've no criticisms.

    I simply don't know the answer but it seems unlikely to me hence my scepticism as to what's really going on.

    If someone can show me that it can then I'd be happy to learn something new.


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    #108
    44leto
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,137 ✭✭✭44leto


    ItsThatManAgain wrote: »
    They should work with kids who have ADHD and see what good a smack would do. Transgenderism is much the same.

    Yeah make them play with the proper toys for starters.


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    #109
    Links234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    ItsThatManAgain wrote: »
    They should work with kids who have ADHD and see what good a smack would do. Transgenderism is much the same.

    I think you need a good smack :p


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    #110
    L.Jenkins
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 19,240 Mod ✭✭✭✭L.Jenkins


    jive wrote: »
    I thought it was sarcasm. Next time you ask someone a question don't start it off with a condescending mark about religion, particularly if they are not religious. The American Psychiatric Association, for one. Why even ask the question? Surely you know of various, reliable, sources that classify it as a mental illness.

    Qustion and Sacrasm, yeah it was alittle bit of both. The APA consider it a disorder, not an illness.
    44leto wrote: »
    Yeah make them play with the proper toys for starters.

    If that were the case, surely we'd all be cured by now.

    I can't quite understand such poor logic and reasoning skill shown here this evening. Truly astonishing.


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    #111
    44leto
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,137 ✭✭✭44leto


    ItsThatManAgain wrote: »
    Qustion and Sacrasm, yeah it was alittle bit of both. The APA consider it a disorder, not an illness.



    If that were the case, surely we'd all be cured by now.

    I can't quite understand such poor logic and reasoning skill shown here this evening. Truly astonishing.

    Read my earlier posts I more then understand the condition, I was responding to your sarcasm with sarcasm.


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    #112
    L.Jenkins
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 19,240 Mod ✭✭✭✭L.Jenkins


    Links234 wrote: »
    I think you need a good smack :p

    I've worked with such children and they would have a notable abnormality in attention and impulse control. I can imagine that people cannot fathom certain concepts when not faced with phsyical attributes to highlight a condition.

    On that note, if I deserve a good smack I'm sure there's a few boardsie more than willing to give me one.


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    #113
    L.Jenkins
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 19,240 Mod ✭✭✭✭L.Jenkins


    44leto wrote: »
    Read my earlier posts I more then understand the condition, I was responding to your sarcasm with sarcasm.

    I know. Just keeping it going.


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    #114
    WindSock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,239 ✭✭✭✭WindSock


    Don't you have to be diagnosed with Gender Identity Disorder to be transgendered? Surely you can't label a child who wants to play and do things that aren't stereotyped to them as transgendered, that's a whole other thing.


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    #115
    Links234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    WindSock wrote: »
    Don't you have to be diagnosed with Gender Identity Disorder to be transgendered? Surely you can't label a child who wants to play and do things that aren't stereotyped to them as transgendered, that's a whole other thing.

    No. Not at all. That's like saying someone has to be diagnosed a homosexual in order to be gay.


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    #116
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,310 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    ItsThatManAgain wrote: »
    http://newideas.net/adhd/neurology

    An MRI should prove the latter false.

    right. in both cases a professional opinion should be looked at.
    windsock wrote:
    Don't you have to be diagnosed with Gender Identity Disorder to be transgendered? Surely you can't label a child who wants to play and do things that aren't stereotyped to them as transgendered, that's a whole other thing.
    i agree


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    #117
    Links234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    besides, the term "gender identity disorder" is pretty much going to be a thing of the past pretty soon.


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    #118
    L.Jenkins
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 19,240 Mod ✭✭✭✭L.Jenkins


    Links234 wrote: »
    besides, the term "gender identity disorder" is pretty much going to be a thing of the past pretty soon.

    About time!


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    #119
    WindSock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,239 ✭✭✭✭WindSock


    Links234 wrote: »
    No. Not at all. That's like saying someone has to be diagnosed a homosexual in order to be gay.

    So transgendered is simply* just identifying with another gender?



    *obviously it's more complex than simple, but I would have thought there would have been a bit more to transgenderism than wanting to wear clothes, play with toys etc associated with the other gender.


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    #120
    L.Jenkins
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 19,240 Mod ✭✭✭✭L.Jenkins


    WindSock wrote: »
    So transgendered is simply* just identifying with another gender?



    *obviously it's more complex than simple, but I would have thought there would have been a bit more to transgenderism than wanting to wear clothes, play with toys etc associated with the other gender.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender

    It's not just complex, but it's more like an entire spectrum of self identification.


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    #121
    WindSock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,239 ✭✭✭✭WindSock


    Links234 wrote: »
    besides, the term "gender identity disorder" is pretty much going to be a thing of the past pretty soon.


    Being gay is not a disorder, but surely being born in the wrong body is?


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