Transgender 7 year old??

Seachmall

curlzy wrote: »

I'm not here to educate you, if you want to be less ignorant on the subject look up some free documentaries on the subjects I mentioned. They're free to watch online. I'm sure everyone here would rather bash innocent people though so go ahead.

You seem to be jumping the gun a bit, nobody is criticizing anything with regards to transgender.

The question is how a 2 year old knows it's the wrong gender when it's only learning it even exists? How does a 2 year old signify to it's parents that it's transgender? Playing with girls toys? Preferring "girl colours"? Of course not, because it can't.

kowloon

When I was that age I wanted to be a Shark. Things might have turned out differently if I had lived near Seaworld.
Instead my friends would make a boat out of bits of scrap wood and barrels with a stepladder for a mast and I'd circle around it trying to bite them while they would try to defend themselves with planks.

Ficheall

curlzy wrote: »

I'm not here to educate you, if you want to be less ignorant on the subject look up some free documentaries on the subjects I mentioned. They're free to watch online. I'm sure everyone here would rather bash innocent people though so go ahead.

I'm not trying to bash anyone. I've no interest in looking up documentaries - I was hoping you could be as succinct in explaining what you meant as you were in lumping what is evidently a whole pile of issues into simply "someone being in the wrong body".

L.Jenkins

Seachmall wrote: »

- Source

Is it even possible for a 7 year old to be that aware? Even still, should a 7 year old be making such a decision? Are they really mature enough?

Yes it is possible at that age as children become increasingly aware of their own gender and identity.

smash wrote: »

The parents should be investigated to be honest. They're conditioning him to believe he's trans.

It's not something any child or adult can be convinced to believe, so I say they should be allowed to get on with it.

Millicent

ItsThatManAgain wrote: »

Yes it is possible at that age as children become increasingly aware of their own gender and identity.

Gender identity, IIRC, comes at about 3 or 4 when the child begins to become curious about their and others' bodies.

cynder

Millicent wrote: »

Gender identity, IIRC, comes at about 3 or 4 when the child begins to become curious about their and others' bodies.

I recall Brad Pitts /Angelina Jolies daughter Shiloh like to dress as a boy, and they let her. She is only 5 but has wanted to dress like aboy for a year or 2.. A very happy 5 year old. If she is happy leave her at it.

syklops

Millicent wrote: »

Gender identity, IIRC, comes at about 3 or 4 when the child begins to become curious about their and others' bodies.

EDIT: Please disregard this post. People more educated than me have proved me wrong(mostly)

No offense, but are you not getting a bit mixed up. I didnt get curious about other peoples bodies until I was at least about 9 and I dont think I am in a minority there.

Gender identity is very different from curiosity about others' bodies.

Seachmall

ItsThatManAgain wrote: »

It's not something any child or adult can be convinced to believe, so I say they should be allowed to get on with it.

I'd say there isn't much that a 7 year old wouldn't believe if it grew up being told it as a fact.

Hell, you could convince a kid a magic man is watching them all the time and climbs down their chimney at the end of the year and they'd think that's completely normal.

L.Jenkins

syklops wrote: »

No offense, but are you not getting a bit mixed up. I didnt get curious about other peoples bodies until I was at least about 9 and I dont think I am in a minority there.

Gender identity is very different from curiosity about others' bodies.

You're confusing gender and sexuality even though you try to make the same point. Interest in other people is sexual, while your own sense of self deals with your gender, which you become aware of.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Jesus H .. "boy parts" :rolleyes:

Yes you can be aware of gender differences at 7, plenty of girls play football and that age and plenty of boys play traditional girls games.

Millicent

syklops wrote: »

No offense, but are you not getting a bit mixed up. I didnt get curious about other peoples bodies until I was at least about 9 and I dont think I am in a minority there.

Gender identity is very different from curiosity about others' bodies.

I'm not. It's what we were taught in my first year in Psychology in college. We had a module on childhood development. That is the age psychiatrists say that children begin to become aware of gender difference. You may have just been a very innocent child. :pac:

Sonics2k

syklops wrote: »

No offense, but are you not getting a bit mixed up. I didnt get curious about other peoples bodies until I was at least about 9 and I dont think I am in a minority there.

Gender identity is very different from curiosity about others' bodies.

You seem to be thinking of sexuality.

My daughter, who's now 5, has recently noticed that my 2 year old son has some "extra" parts while they get their bath.
She's reached the age where she's starting to wonder about the differences between boys and girls.

L.Jenkins

Seachmall wrote: »

I'd say there isn't much that a 7 year old wouldn't believe if it's parents told it something with absolutely certainty.

Hell, you could convince a kid a magic man is watching them all the time and climbs down their chimney at the end of the year and they'd think that's completely normal.

Yes you can fool a child in to believing that you can shít a rabbit on command, but gender is built in. A child will delve into introspection like an Adult would and ask questions before making a conclusion. I think you give children very little credit for their ability to think for themselves.

ScumLord

ItsThatManAgain wrote: »

It's not something any child or adult can be convinced to believe, so I say they should be allowed to get on with it.

I think it would be very possible to convince a child that any type of sexuality is normal or allowed. Children are a blank slate they believe whatever their told. Just like gay men spent century being told the should like women and believed it no matter how bad it made them feel. I'm certain there are instances of people forcing their children to act like the other sex.

Seachmall

ItsThatManAgain wrote: »

Yes you can fool a child in to believing that you can shít a rabbit on command, but gender is built in. A child will delve into introspection like an Adult would and ask questions before making a conclusion. I think you give children very little credit for their ability to think for themselves.

In general people give themselves too much credit when it comes to thinking for themselves and a child more-so.

Some kids believe God has given them powers. Some adults believe they're no longer gay because a man shouted at them for one hour a week. This is something they feel to be true, they genuinely believe it. Of course it's horseshit but some believe these things to the point where they'll happily take their own lives and the lives of their children.

People can believe things that are absolutely not true, even when it's about themselves. And a 7 year old is definitely susceptible to this.


I'm not saying the kid isn't transgender, but it doesn't look like it's actually thought about it or genuinely become aware of it because the whole "since she was 2" thing is absolute bullshit and sounds like the type of thing a kid would make up because it's what their parents want to hear.

Millicent

Seachmall wrote: »

I'm not saying the kid isn't transgender, but it doesn't look like it's actually thought about it or genuinely become aware of it because the whole "since she was 2" thing is absolute bullshit and sounds like the type of thing a kid would make up because it's what their parents want to hear.

And you can say that without knowing either the child or the parents in question? What evidence have you got to back up that the child was under any duress from her parents?

Seachmall

Millicent wrote: »

And you can say that without knowing either the child or the parents in question? What evidence have you got to back up that the child was under any duress from her parents?

I'm not saying the child was under duress from their parents, the parents may genuinely believe the kid to be transgender and the kid, as kids do, picked up on it and began to believe it (most of our behaviours and beliefs are learned this way).

My scepticism of the whole thing is the 2 year old part. As stated a 2 year old is barely self-aware. If you're barely aware of the fact you exist or you're human you won't be aware of the nuances of gender identity.

Millicent

Seachmall wrote: »

I'm not saying the child was under duress from their parents, the parents may genuinely believe the kid to be transgender and the kid, as kids do, picked up on it and began to believe it (most of our behaviours and beliefs are learned this way).

My scepticism of the whole thing is the 2 year old part. As stated a 2 year old is barely self-aware. If you're barely aware of the fact you exist or you're human you won't be aware of the nuances of gender identity.

Considering the fact that gender identity begins at three, it's entirely plausible that the child began to self-identity as female from then. Before that, she may have displayed some "traditional" female behaviours that may have opened the door to her parents' belief, but not to the extent that they would have believed she was a girl.

To be honest, I have no idea whether this is a genuine case of a transgender child or just gender confusion but neither do you. No one but the child will be able to say for certain.

curlzy

syklops wrote: »

What am I 'ignorant' about? You are the one who is coming off as ignorant. I feel sorry for the child in question because he will have years of counseling and therapy ahead of him. I am also sorry for him that his mother allowed the situation get so blown out of proportion that the story has crossed the Atlantic and we are reading about it.

Start making sense as to how I am 'ignorant' or your going on the block list.

Wow, you can do that? Hmmm ah figured it out, considered yourself blocked so. Wow this function will make perusing boards alot less frustrating, just block the ignorant people , handy.

Seachmall

Millicent wrote: »

Considering the fact that gender identity begins at three, it's entirely plausible that the child began to self-identity as female from then. Before that, she may have displayed some "traditional" female behaviours that may have opened the door to her parents' belief, but not to the extent that they would have believed she was a girl.

To be honest, I have no idea whether this is a genuine case of a transgender child or just gender confusion but neither do you. No one but the child will be able to say for certain.

Of course, but it's a dangerous area none-the-less. I've no doubt that I could've been raised to believe I was something I wasn't, now whether I would have self-corrected in my later years I don't know but I can only imagine the unnecessary confusion it would have caused.

If the parents preemptively believed this kid was transgender before the kid even knew the child may have learnt to believe it. And I wouldn't take a 2,3 or 4 year old's word for it, they're too susceptible to the wants and expectations of their parents at that age (which set the foundations for beliefs in later years).

desertcircus

It seems quite unfair to assume this is a case of parents pushing a child into identifying as trans. For a start, we've no way of knowing. But what looks to me like a dead giveaway that the child's mother isn't conditioning her is the fact that she keeps referring to her child by male pronouns and admits to still finding it hard to get used to. I would have thought that the kind of parent who'd push a child into identifying as trans for what appears to be a solid five years would at the very least be referring to little Bobby as "she".

This just looks like a story about a kid who's convinced she's meant to be a girl, and a parent who's willing to do what it takes to support her in that.

iguana

Seachmall wrote: »

My scepticism of the whole thing is the 2 year old part. As stated a 2 year old is barely self-aware. If you're barely aware of the fact you exist or you're human you won't be aware of the nuances of gender identity.

As stated by you, so not actually a fact of any sort at all really. Two year olds are highly aware and generally are aware of gender identity at that age.

Children begin to experience themselves as more powerful, creative "doers." They explore everything, show a stronger sense of self and expand their range of self-help skills. Self-regulation is a big challenge. Two-year-olds are likely to:
Show awareness of gender identity
Indicate toileting needs
Help to dress and undress themselves
Be assertive about their preferences and say no to adult requests
Begin self-evaluation and develop notions of themselves as good, bad, attractive, etc.
Show awareness of their own feelings and those of others, and talk about feelings
Experience rapid mood shifts and show increased fearfulness (for example, fear of the dark, or certain objects)
Display aggressive feelings and behaviors

http://www.pbs.org/wholechild/abc/social.html

Cavehill Red

44leto wrote: »

Yeah its unbelievable, would they have the same attitude to a person born with another genetic disorder.

Being a perfectly healthy male is not a 'genetic disorder'.

curlzy

Ficheall wrote: »

I'm not trying to bash anyone. I've no interest in looking up documentaries - I was hoping you could be as succinct in explaining what you meant as you were in lumping what is evidently a whole pile of issues into simply "someone being in the wrong body".

Well that could explain how you have ZERO information on a subject you somehow feel justified on commenting on. If you have an aversion to documentaries you could always read a book you know? Considering the amount of information I've found on this subject no I can't and won't be more succinct than saying "someone being in the wrong body", I would take up way to much room if I started explaining it all.

If you actually have an interest in this subject google "documentaries & free & watch online" and then look at the tonnes of free information on this. However if you just want to bash innocent parents and children go right ahead.

Seachmall

iguana wrote: »

As stated by you, so not actually a fact of any sort at all really. Two year olds are highly aware and generally are aware of gender identity at that age.

I never said anything to the contrary, and in fact your source and quote supports my point.



Also your statement of "highly aware" is highly disingenuous, as per your source.


.

iguana

Seachmall wrote: »

I never said anything to the contrary, and in fact your source and quote supports my point.

It says the exact opposite of your assertion.

Millicent

Seachmall wrote: »

Of course, but it's a dangerous area none-the-less. I've no doubt that I could've been raised to believe I was something I wasn't, now whether I would have self-corrected in my later years I don't know but I can only imagine the unnecessary confusion it would have caused.

If the parents preemptively believed this kid was transgender before the kid even knew the child may have learnt to believe it. And I wouldn't take a 2,3 or 4 year old's word for it, they're too susceptible to the wants and expectations of their parents at that age (which set the foundations for beliefs in later years).

But again, you don't know if that's the case with this child. Hopefully, the parents have brought the child to specialist to be assessed. The article makes no mention of it either way so we can't judge this case completely.

RichieC

Can't believe this is being defended.

There's such a thing as being so liberal your brain falls out...

poor fking child

desertcircus

RichieC wrote: »

Can't believe this is being defended.

There's such a thing as being so liberal your brain falls out...

poor fking child

Do you have a point to go with that?

Millicent

RichieC wrote: »

Can't believe this is being defended.

There's such a thing as being so liberal your brain falls out...

poor fking child

I put chewing gum in my ears to keep mine in. I made sure it was pinko gum though, just to be on the safe side.