Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

Ogham

gerryo777 wrote: »

I still can't understand how people in rental accommodation are exempt.
That's discriminating against homeowners.
This tax is supposed to pay for local services that everyone uses.

It is a tax on home owners .

gerryo777

Ogham wrote: »

It is a tax on home owners .

It's discrimination! Anyway, I won't be paying it.

SafeSurfer

Denis and Eileen Kingston wrote: »

Pay now or you'll pay twice as much later

Profound first post.

The government needs to employ people who use social media to advance their agendas in more subtle ways.

squod

Ogham wrote: »

108000 Local AUthority houses (don't have to register)

The Central Banks says total arrears and restructuring for mortgages amounts to 99,346 accounts.

Similar numbers of council tenants who don't have to pay as the verifiable working poor who do have to pay. Morally wrong, unjust and unfair. Just like Enda said back in '94.

Bruthal

mikom wrote: »

Who the hell posts with their family name ( if true)?

He probably thought this is where you register

D_murph

I will NOT be paying or registering for this BS tax no matter what they say. I have also seen the propaganda leaflet they have posted out to people and the lies it carries beggars belief.

"The household charge, funding local services". What a crock of $hit!!!

At the very least, these services should carry on the same with the introduction of this tax but they will not. There has been huge cuts all across the board (teachers, gardai, hospitals and more than I know of TBH) so what are we paying for so?

Bond holder pay outs, that's what and make no mistake, people know that.

I have been to a few meetings and I can tell you this. If Enda Kenny had attended the meeting in the Imperial Hotel in Cork a few weeks ago, he may not have gotten out alive, such was the anger towards him there that night.

People have had enough. Everything is going up. Electricity, gas, petrol. You name it, its gone up since the last budget. People who do not have a pot to pi$$ into are being screwed for money they just do not have.

Yes, the country is in trouble but so are the people in it also. The sooner this government realise this, the better if they plan to make up their budget deficits from them because they simply do not have it to give any more .

Even if you are in a position to pay this now, ask yourself this...

1. Will I have this job Im in this time next year?
2. What new tax/law will they pass in the next budget even if I can?
3. When I am in my old age, will I be able to pay all these new taxes on my home when I am relying on my pension?

Make no mistake, any of these new charges/taxes/whatever they call them, will not go away once the current crisis ends (if it ever will) so the time to act is now!!!

Fight now for what you have and do not wait until it is too late and you are fighting over what you have lost!!!!!

Am Chile

Phill Ewinn wrote: »

Mr Beard from STIPU was on encouraging the ''don't register, don't pay'' campaign. SF have also showed face. I guess that just leaves the hapless twits of FF.

I seen him on the news earlier, I didn,t see him encourageing non registitration and non payment though, was on he on something else encourageing the ''don't register, don't pay'' campaign?

b.harte

Shenshen wrote: »

It's €100, that's around €8.33 a month.

I'm finding it absolutely baffling how people can get worked up over this, yet will happily spend as much on a single drink on a night out....

Get a grip. Seriously.

Maybe people aren't getting worked up about JUST "this", maybe it is just the straw that might break the camel's back? (Doubtful, agree with the sentiments about armchair rebels and people being averse to a criminal proceeding.)
I'm all for fairness in all forms of taxation, I'm all for a fairness in how tax income is distributed and I'm all for fairness across all aspects of governance. I accept that this country is up the shi**er and needs to alter the ways we generate and spend taxes.
My being "worked up" is to do with how there can be a blanket exclusion for a sizeable chunk of the population.
I accept that there may be a valid social or economic reason why such exemptions occur but it remains a bitter pill to swallow, even if it is just 8.33 per month.
I work, my wife was made redundant, we have a mortgage, bills, 2 small kids and on a weekly basis we have to balance the bill down to the penny, but thankfully not in arrears on anything.
I was in Munich last week with work and if I had an emergency that I had to fly home for I had no reserves to get home on.
That is what my problem is, ordinary middle income PAYE workers are being squeezed for pretty much everything but receiving little in terms of benefits for taxes paid. (I'm a rural dweller so don't have urban services like street lights, water mains, cycle lanes or any of the other public funded facilities)
My point is this:
I wouldn't mind paying this or any tax if there was a legitimate value / benefit to me as a tax payer, or if it was universally applied in one way, shape or form.
It's like the USC, a universal social charge that distinctly lacks universal social services.
So no, I think I'll wait for a few letters to find there way to me.

Phill Ewinn

People are sending me bills all the time I can't pay. We're not alone on this one. It looks like aandslide victory for the don't reister, don't pay campaign.

dxhound2005

b.harte wrote: »

Maybe people aren't getting worked up about JUST "this", maybe it is just the straw that might break the camel's back? (Doubtful, agree with the sentiments about armchair rebels and people being averse to a criminal proceeding.)
I'm all for fairness in all forms of taxation, I'm all for a fairness in how tax income is distributed and I'm all for fairness across all aspects of governance. I accept that this country is up the shi**er and needs to alter the ways we generate and spend taxes.
My being "worked up" is to do with how there can be a blanket exclusion for a sizeable chunk of the population.
I accept that there may be a valid social or economic reason why such exemptions occur but it remains a bitter pill to swallow, even if it is just 8.33 per month.
I work, my wife was made redundant, we have a mortgage, bills, 2 small kids and on a weekly basis we have to balance the bill down to the penny, but thankfully not in arrears on anything.
I was in Munich last week with work and if I had an emergency that I had to fly home for I had no reserves to get home on.
That is what my problem is, ordinary middle income PAYE workers are being squeezed for pretty much everything but receiving little in terms of benefits for taxes paid. (I'm a rural dweller so don't have urban services like street lights, water mains, cycle lanes or any of the other public funded facilities)
My point is this:
I wouldn't mind paying this or any tax if there was a legitimate value / benefit to me as a tax payer, or if it was universally applied in one way, shape or form.
It's like the USC, a universal social charge that distinctly lacks universal social services.
So no, I think I'll wait for a few letters to find there way to me.

The blanket exclusion of a sizeable chunk of the population was made for purely political reasons this year I would think. The Government had to introduce something in a hurry to satisfy the troika and probably made the decision to exclude local authority tenants to avoid a much bigger protest by the Socialist Party and the Socialist Workers Party. These groups have no credibility as I have said before pretending to defend the rights of private property owners (their class enemy) but imagine the outcry if the perceived weakest section of the community had been included in the charge. Equally I think the decision not to invoice people in the absence of any proper database is wise, again imagine Liveline with thousands saying Joe they want to rob me dead father.

This will change if the charge continues as a property tax. There will have to be a database to invoice people for the exact amount which has been calculated for their property and this will by definition be fairer than everyone paying €100. Of course just like other countries it will be impossible to devise a completely fair system. Private landlords will find a way to recover the tax from their tenants if it becomes substantial and I can forsee something happening with local authority properties to allay the protest from private householders.

eth0

dxhound2005 wrote: »

This will change if the charge continues as a property tax. There will have to be a database to invoice people for the exact amount which has been calculated for their property and this will by definition be fairer than everyone paying €100. Of course just like other countries it will be impossible to devise a completely fair system. Private landlords will find a way to recover the tax from their tenants if it becomes substantial and I can forsee something happening with local authority properties to allay the protest from private householders.

Nothing fair about paying the government every year just to hold onto something you already paid for. Property tax is nothing more than extortion and home owners are a good soft target because they have something to lose.

I can see it already they'll drop the household charge and forge on ahead with the much higher property tax pretending the two aren't the same or even connected. This + impending broadcast tax + septic tank inspections + water rates + a few more of these taxes they havn't revealed yet will be extracting 1-2k a year from every family if they get their way.

The govt are just dieing to get the kind of tax in that is a fixed fee every year and 90%+ of the population has to pay. Nothing ethical about them but this kind of tax suits them to the ground because they're reliable and easy to collect.

dxhound2005

eth0 wrote: »

Nothing fair about paying the government every year just to hold onto something you already paid for. Property tax is nothing more than extortion and home owners are a good soft target because they have something to lose.

I can see it already they'll drop the household charge and forge on ahead with the much higher property tax pretending the two aren't the same or even connected. This + impending broadcast tax + septic tank inspections + water rates + a few more of these taxes they havn't revealed yet will be extracting 1-2k a year from every family if they get their way.

The govt are just dieing to get the kind of tax in that is a fixed fee every year and 90%+ of the population has to pay. Nothing ethical about them but this kind of tax suits them to the ground because they're reliable and easy to collect.

There is no pretence about the property tax not being a replacement for the charge, that has already been announced. Septic tank inspection one off €50 or €5 charge is good if it results in these installations not polluting the local ground water. I know people will have to pay if there is work required but I can't see any unfairness in that. I agree with the broadcast tax providing it is no more than the TV licence. It will be easier to recover from the 15 or 20% who evade the licence and will be fairer all round. (Whether people agree with funding public service broadcasting by a general charge as happens in lots of countries is another discussion). Metered water is a good idea, treated water is a precious resource and is liable to be wasted if it is free (and yes I know about the faulty infrastructure).

I knew at the time of the election that any incoming administration was going to introduce new taxes. Some people here are very dismissive of the Household Charge but it is on the statute books now and I cannot see any likely political combination (including Sinn Fein) which may come to power doing away with it.

eth0

dxhound2005 wrote: »

There is no pretence about the property tax not being a replacement for the charge, that has already been announced. Septic tank inspection one off €50 or €5 charge is good if it results in these installations not polluting the local ground water. I know people will have to pay if there is work required but I can't see any unfairness in that. I agree with the broadcast tax providing it is no more than the TV licence. It will be easier to recover from the 15 or 20% who evade the licence and will be fairer all round. (Whether people agree with funding public service broadcasting by a general charge as happens in lots of countries is another discussion). Metered water is a good idea, treated water is a precious resource and is liable to be wasted if it is free (and yes I know about the faulty infrastructure).

I knew at the time of the election that any incoming administration was going to introduce new taxes. Some people here are very dismissive of the Household Charge but it is on the statute books now and I cannot see any likely political combination (including Sinn Fein) which may come to power doing away with it.

Ah but if they're stuck the household charge can be like the Lizard's tail that breaks off. Its not too popular and the govt might let it go and come back with property tax later. They could get a few more twatgroups like SIPTU on their side supporting a 'fair' property tax while setting the RTE propaganda machine in motion with the 'property tax = fair' message

I have my doubts about the septic tank charge being once off. The NCT was supposed to be every two years. We have been had too many times with this trick and one can't understimate how important it is to prevent a government from getting its foot in the door with some new stream of revenue.

Like with the water charge I have nothing against it really once there is a decent allowance given but before you know it there will be all sorts of PSO levies and fixed charges attached to it. They'll tag on a thing to have urbanites paying for waste water if they could.

squod

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I agree with the broadcast tax providing it is no more than the TV licence.

More tom foolery. Levy a tax on something you don't own, the internet. Someone needs to tell the government how stupid they look.

dxhound2005

eth0 wrote: »

Ah but if they're stuck the household charge can be like the Lizard's tail that breaks off. Its not too popular and the govt might let it go and come back with property tax later

I have my doubts about the septic tank charge being once off. The NCT was supposed to be every two years. We have been had too many times with this trick and one can't understimate how important it is to prevent a government from getting its foot in the door with some new stream of revenue.

Like with the water charge I have nothing against it really once there is a decent allowance given but before you know it there will be all sorts of PSO levies and fixed charges attached to it. They'll tag on a thing to have urbanites paying for waste water if they could.

You are blessed with great foresight, but you may well be correct. The alternative is there for people to elect the Socialist Party into power and see how they get on. They are full of ideas including a wealth tax.

eth0

dxhound2005 wrote: »

You are blessed with great foresight, but you may well be correct. The alternative is there for people to elect the Socialist Party into power and see how they get on. They are full of ideas including a wealth tax.

We'd have more luck pressuring the existing crowd into dropping the property tax & giving up on the unavoidable broadcast tax than getting some new shower in. The reason being that this shower *are* the new shower that said they wouldn't bring these things in but went back on their word.

dxhound2005

squod wrote: »

More tom foolery. Levy a tax on something you don't own, the internet. Someone needs to tell the government how stupid they look.

98% of households have at least one TV set.

eth0

dxhound2005 wrote: »

98% of households have at least one TV set.

Is that not some made up figure so the TV license inspectors justify their jobs?

I have no TV myself, know several others who don't. TV ownership is going down. People are slowly but surely getting tired of being fed a constant stream of mindless drivel that decreases in quality year after year

dvpower

eth0 wrote: »

We'd have more luck pressuring the existing crowd into dropping the property tax & giving up on the unavoidable broadcast tax than getting some new shower in. The reason being that this shower *are* the new shower that said they wouldn't bring these things in but went back on their word.

What would the likely outcome be if the Government scrapped this tax? They would have to raise the money elsewhere and the easiest way of doing this would be to cut tax credits by €100 and maybe cut social welfare payments by €100. The net effect will be more or less the same.

As for the government going back on their word; a property tax was in the IMF/EU MOU - this was predictable for anyone who voted for FG or LAB.

2pack

Why cant they take time out and wait til next year and put a property tax system together thats fair to everyone and scrap the household charge.

This household charge makes no sense and is very unfair and just shows really that these clowns in government have not got a clue to be honest.

Is it they cant wait and need the quick money to pay the bond holders etc

Its the way they are going about this whole matter that annoys everyone and they really are so out of touch with the ordinary people out there and Enda kenny and his cronies are so arrogant and are quickly becoming tyrants

Bruthal

2pack wrote: »

Why cant they take time out and wait til next year and put a property tax system together thats fair to everyone and scrap the household charge.

This household charge makes no sense and is very unfair and just shows really that these clowns in government have not got a clue to be honest.

Is it they cant wait and need the quick money to pay the bond holders etc

Its the way they are going about this whole matter that annoys everyone and they really are so out of touch with the ordinary people out there and Enda kenny and his cronies are so arrogant and are quickly becoming tyrants

Well its a move by the government, knowing some people see it as only €8.33 a month. And as its only that small amount, people will register, and then they are an easy target for any amount needed in the near future.


And its working on some by the look of this thread.

Shenshen wrote: »

It's €100, that's around €8.33 a month.

I'm finding it absolutely baffling how people can get worked up over this, yet will happily spend as much on a single drink on a night out....

Get a grip. Seriously.

Its even more baffling how someone is so easily fooled into this line of thinking.

Whether the tax is right or wrong, the above quote is a perfect demonstration of how easily people are fooled into thinking its a small amount, lets register.

If they brought in a straight €500 tax, far fewer would register. So fool as many as possible with this little €100 tax, along with the ones that wont go against anything that has the word "law" associated with it, and get their details.

Zebra3

Got the state sponsored propaganda leaflet in the door yesterday threathening me about this new tax to pay for private gambling losses.

It went straight to the recycling bin.

tayto lover

Zebra3 wrote: »

Got the state sponsored propaganda leaflet in the door yesterday threathening me about this new tax to pay for private gambling losses.

It went straight to the recycling bin.

I think the dog got mine. He is refusing to pay too.

gerryo777

Zebra3 wrote: »

Got the state sponsored propaganda leaflet in the door yesterday threathening me about this new tax to pay for private gambling losses.

It went straight to the recycling bin.

You should have sent it back to phil hogan...let one of his many secretary's/advisors earn their keep.

donalg1

2pack wrote: »

Why cant they take time out and wait til next year and put a property tax system together thats fair to everyone and scrap the household charge.

This household charge makes no sense and is very unfair and just shows really that these clowns in government have not got a clue to be honest.

Is it they cant wait and need the quick money to pay the bond holders etc

Its the way they are going about this whole matter that annoys everyone and they really are so out of touch with the ordinary people out there and Enda kenny and his cronies are so arrogant and are quickly becoming tyrants

The property tax will be in place next year which they claim will be fairer, but for now they have to bring in the household charge as an interim measure as the EU /IMF told them to do it, and sure the Govt is their lap dog now and for years to come.

Ghandee

donalg1 wrote: »

The property tax will be in place next year which they claim will be fairer, but for now they have to bring in the household charge as an interim measure as the EU /IMF told them to do it, and sure the Govt is their lap dog now and for years to come.

The property tax will only be in place next year, if the household charge becomes a success.

It aint looking good at the minute though.:cool:

donalg1

Ghandee wrote: »

The property tax will only be in place next year, if the household charge becomes a success.

It aint looking good at the minute though.:cool:

I dont think the success or failure of the household charge is going to have any influence on the property tax at all. I really cant imagine the household charge being scrapped anyway especially since there have been some payments made already.

Ghandee

donalg1 wrote: »

I dont think the success or failure of the household charge is going to have any influence on the property tax at all. I really cant imagine the household charge being scrapped anyway especially since there have been some payments made already.

Only some though, last I heard 6%.

Thats a massive 94% of non compliance though.

Born to Die

I really don't know at this stage whether I will pay it or not, I will see what funds are in my account on the last day for registering and decide then whether there is something more pressing that needs the money.

donalg1

Ghandee wrote: »

Only some though, last I heard 6%.

Thats a massive 94% of non compliance though.

Yeah but I reckon that figure will rise a bit by the end of the month / year probably wont go too high but there will be a rise in it.

So they cant just turn around and scrap it now given that even one person has paid it.