Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

Bruthal

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Heres a funny auld thing.
"We need you to register so that we know who you are and can charge you. If you dont register we wont know who you are and we will fine find you"


But if you dont know........ummmmmm...what?

Maybe it was a mis-print by them, as above:)

dvpower

robbie7730 wrote: »

Is that how stories in newspapers are authenticated now?

No, but if they were to put their name to it, we could ask them to back it up

Ghandee

The poll should have been made public tbh.

Would have made very very interesting reading to see how many newly registered 'no' people have voted in the last day or so:pac:

Bruthal

Ghandee wrote: »

The poll should have been made public tbh.

Would have made very very interesting reading to see how many newly registered 'no' people have voted in the last day or so:pac:

I think it should have an option to show a percentage that has paid it anyway.

How many came on in the last few days doesnt make much difference, the poll is there to vote. The real registration is likely to see a surge in the last few days from the yes people too.

starbelgrade

splashthecash wrote: »

In the Metro this morning....can anyone legal-minded confirm this??

You won't get a household charge bill because it is a statute. People need to understand this. A statute is a "legislated rule of society given the force of law by the consent of the governed"...who are those it governs? Its us, the public.

This household charge is a statute, otherwise known as an Act of Government, and it only carries the force of law if you consent to it - which means you are legally obliged to pay for it if you register for it on householdcharge.ie

Your silence and inaction gives you a stance of no consent. If you do not consent, a statute cannot affect you. However if you register for this "charge", you are consenting to the statute i.e. you are signing the contract.

This is why the government is ASKING people to register for the household charge rather than just sending a bill to each household.

A statue law is a written law that is brought into effect under a Statutory Instrument. You do not need to consent to it for it to affect you. If that were the case, you could ignore any law which you do not consent to.

The government are the law makers & by proxy you have already given them your consent for making these laws by voting in a democratic election.

People should stop peddling these idiotic myths. It's irresponsible, ignorant and shows nothing more than a complete lack of understanding of how our society's laws work.

niallers1

starbelgrade wrote: »

A statue law is a written law that is brought into effect under a Statutory Instrument. You do not need to consent to it for it to affect you. If that were the case, you could ignore any law which you do not consent to.

The government are the law makers & by proxy you have already given them your consent for making these laws by voting in a democratic election.

People should stop peddling these idiotic myths. It's irresponsible, ignorant and shows nothing more than a complete lack of understanding of how our society's laws work.

I'm still not paying it.

Born to Die

This is about individual choice, either pay it or don't.

The time for dissent is long past, the time for recovery is where we are at now. Mistakes have been made, but to learn from your mistakes you must first recover from them.

The country needs to recover it's sovereignty, we won't do it without meeting the obligations we have made to our creditors, the one's that are paying our national bills. By not paying this tax, they will just move it to an increase in income tax whether through work or welfare. This decision will be made from outside our country, decisions that we need to get back to the position of making as a sovereign nation.

niallers1

Born to Die wrote: »

This is about individual choice, either pay it or don't.

The time for dissent is long past, the time for recovery is where we are at now. Mistakes have been made, but to learn from your mistakes you must first recover from them.

The country needs to recover it's sovereignty, we won't do it without meeting the obligations we have made to our creditors, the one's that are paying our national bills. By not paying this tax, they will just move it to an increase in income tax whether through work or welfare. This decision will be made from outside our country, decisions that we need to get back to the position of making as a nation.

Whose Creditors? Not mine.

It's the banks creditors..

Bruthal

starbelgrade wrote: »

People should stop peddling these idiotic myths. It's irresponsible, ignorant and shows nothing more than a complete lack of understanding of how our society's laws work.

Thats true, but our society`s laws wont do much for the people most affected by more and more taxes.

Born to Die

niallers1 wrote: »

Whose Creditors? Not mine.

It's the banks creditors..

So you won't need a hospital, a Garda or any other public service, if that is the case then good for you.

If you are on welfare, where will your continued payments come from?

dvpower

robbie7730 wrote: »

Thats true, but our societies laws wont do much for the people most affected by more and more taxes.

You should vote for someone else.

tan11ie

NO simple as.

Bruthal

dvpower wrote: »

You should vote for someone else.

You assume i voted for FG/FF then?

If i didnt, does that mean i`m exempt now?

niallers1

Born to Die wrote: »

So you won't need a hospital, a Garda or any other public service, if that is the case then good for you.

If you are on welfare, where will your next payment come from?

My paye/prsi/USC/Vat/Road Tax/vehicle registration tax/Stamp duty when buying a home/Second home Tax/Inheritence Tax e.t.c e.t.c. e.t.c Pay for those services.
This new tax is to pay back the debts of professional investors. They messed up. They should pay. Not me.

If people in those services are being paid too much then that's a different arguement. Lets Benchmark our Politicians and public servents/civil servants against the countries we compete against first then look at taxation.

Bruthal

starbelgrade wrote: »

Sky King wrote: »

Knock the house and claim it never existed!

Top tip for saving a hundred quid!

I would say there are a fair few out there that wish they could do that, not to save the €100 though.

Ghandee

Jeez....

From this, total uncertainy....

Born to Die wrote: »

I really don't know at this stage whether I will pay it or not, I will see what funds are in my account on the last day for registering and decide then whether there is something more pressing that needs the money.

Again, not sure...

Born to Die wrote: »

But what about the fines and extra charges that I will incur in the long term?

Then miraculously, becomes a semi expert on economics.....

Born to Die wrote: »

Oh that's ok so, I was wondering how I was going to get my money back.

But seriously, why would you think that solidarity will prevail in this country, not a chance. Anyway the country is broke we need to pay our creditors, I am thinking that I will do my national duty and contribute to the recovery of this country in what ever way I can. I owe that much to the future generations who we have failed in the past when we the people should have showed some sense of this solidarity you talk about and said stop.

Ireland in my experiences is a country of me feiners too absorbed in their own world to give a sh1t about society as a whole.
I used to care, did my bit for the little man/woman but now I have come to the realisation that in this country you need to look after number 1 as collectively we are pathetic.

Born to Die wrote: »

The rise of the dissenters over the household tax makes a mockery of the silence in the days after the guarantee, we are in it for the long haul whether we like it or not. I don't like it but our national debt has to be dealt with if only to give the next generation a chance of knowing the value of national sovereignty.

We didn't care and the movement of the "people" against the household tax is just hilarious non action. You do realise that there are a large number, growing by the day of people who are exempt from this payment, by not generating the capability to fund this country we will collapse our social structure, Germany and France will ensure this if we do not make our misguided commitments.

Born to Die wrote: »

Billions owed, private gambling debt!!, the misunderstanding of where this country is situated in a global financial stakes is worrying to me as people are clearly missing the point of the what is happening, where were all these dissenters at the last election, where were they when they had the oppurtuinity to move from the right to the left, they were there in their lowly percentage like they are now in their vocal outrage after the horse has left the stable.

Arguing over pennies while billions need to be gained to keep the country functioning.

Head office, sheep, internet warriors they are just noise

Read the whole thread in such short a time?

Born to Die wrote: »

My initial post was more in jest than reality, since reading the full thread my mind is made up that payment will be made and the rest of the dissenters can make their individual choices but I owe it to the future generations to help fix the issue as it exists today, using my knowledge of the scale of problem.

Just my observation.

Born to Die wrote: »

It may not but our debts are not just going to disappear either.
This is an individual choice, you either pay it or not you don't.
Depending on the numbers that don't pay the Government will have to decide the course of action to be taken, my guess will be an increase in income tax across the board and a reduction in welfare payments.

The facts are we have to service your national debt and the funds will have to come from our pockets, if not a household charge there will just have to be some other imaginative ways for the government to raise funds to pay down our national debt.

I am not happy about paying any more tax but I want the younger generation to know the freedom of national sovereignty and to learn it's true value.

Something doesnt add up here to be completely honest with you

dvpower

robbie7730 wrote: »

You assume i voted for FG/FF then?

If i didnt, does that mean i`m exempt now?

The household charge / property tax was in the IMF MOU way before the election. The election was won by parties who stood on a platform of accepting the IMF bailout.

You're not exempted from our laws just because you think they're unjust - the way to get them changed is to get someone else elected.
But you failed last time out; maybe the anti IMF parties will be successful next time around (but I doubt it).

Born to Die

Ghandee wrote: »

Then miraculously, becomes a semi expert on economics.....

Really, semi expert.Why thank you kind sir

Read the whole thread in such short a time?

I have a very good BS filter :pac:

Something doesnt add up here to be completely honest with you

You're confused, I am confused.

Bruthal

dvpower wrote: »

The household charge / property tax was in the IMF MOU way before the election. The election was won by parties who stood on a platform of accepting the IMF bailout.

You're not exempted from our laws just because you think they're unjust - the way to get them changed is to get someone else elected.
But you failed last time out; maybe the anti IMF parties will be successful next time around (but I doubt it).

If you could point out where i said im exempt, that might help.

Born to Die

Do you know that on further reflection, I really am unsure as to whether I should pay it or not.
The case for paying it is strong and the case for not paying it is just as strong, if a little belated.

I'll have to think about it a little more, are caravans permanently sited exempt?

dvpower

robbie7730 wrote: »

If you could point out where i said im exempt, that might help.

If you could point out where i said you said you're exempt, that might help.;)

Bruthal

dvpower wrote: »

If you could point out where i said you said you're exempt, that might help.;)

Is there something in your eye there?


Earlier you said i should of voted for someone else,

Then this,

dvpower wrote: »

You're not exempted from our laws just because you think they're unjust -

Generalising where you?

dvpower

robbie7730 wrote: »

Is there something in your eye there?


Earlier you said i should of voted for someone else,

Then this,

Generalising where you?

Not sure what point you're trying to make.
You asked me if you would be excempt depending on who you voted for (a daft question really). And I replied (a waste of my time really).

Bruthal

dvpower wrote: »

Not sure what point you're trying to make.
You asked me if you would be excempt depending on who you voted for (a daft question really). And I replied (a waste of my time really).

As was telling me i should vote for someone else (daft).
The question you link to, if you took that serious, then im sorry for wasting your precious time there. Have a good day anyway:)

egan2020

First of all I haven't been following this thread as I'm renting so the charge doesn't apply to me.

Secondly, I think that this is an unfair tax but my understanding is that if it's not paid then a charge will be put on the property so if the owner decides to sell the property they won't be able to do so unless the charge is paid up to date and at that stage, interest and penalties would have accrued so the owner would end up paying more. This is currently happening with people selling second homes who haven't paid the NPPR charge.

Also, as regards not registering your details, I imagine the government would be able to get all details from the Revenue Commissioners who have names and PPS numbers of everyone who has purchased property.

Bruthal

egan2020 wrote: »

First of all I haven't been following this thread as I'm renting so the charge doesn't apply to me.

It might not apply to you, but there is a fair chance you will be paying it, especially when the real amount comes in next year or soon afterwards.

mikom

starbelgrade wrote: »

The charge applies to the dwelling, so if for example you go to sell your house 20 years down the road, you won't be allowed to do so without paying the charge plus the interest.

The limit is twelve years.

lividduck

mikom wrote: »

The limit is twelve years.

So, its still 12 years of tax,penalties and charges, that can add up to a lot of dough

dvpower

mikom wrote: »

The limit is twelve years.

Interesting piece of advise. What's it based upon?

mikom

dvpower wrote: »

Interesting piece of advise. What's it based upon?

The official site.

Late payment interest of 1% per month or part thereof will apply to unpaid amounts.
Furthermore, both the €100 charge and any accumulated late payment fee will be a charge against the property concerned and will continue to be such for twelve years after the charge or late payment penalties concerned became due.
https://www.householdcharge.ie/Faq.aspx

Your opinion on this revelation?