Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

K-9

Mr CJ wrote: »

Why is there so many sheep in this country, someone please answer?????????????????

People open your minds and think......

Bishop you are so right but so so wrong, yes the country needs to make progress correct, now please explain how this household charge is progress with respect to the massive increases of this charge over the next few yrs??

This charge and every other charge will have a negative effect same as VAT increases, people will have no choice but to spend less if anything at all and who will suffer? business's will causing more job losses.
As pointed out before on this, if people had not got the household charge to worry about, they would spend this money elsewhere ie in the majority of cases put it back into the Irish economy.

I will not pay this, not because I cant afford it, or not because I want a free for all, simply because the government have gone to far and we the Irish need to wake up, cop on, slap yourselfs across the face or what ever it takes for you to wake up and say NO.

If the government see that we mean business maybe then they may start implementing the common sense procedures and start alternative ideas to generate or save revenue, anyone with some common sense knows there are lots of ways to save money. Another point I would like to make, why do ministers need teams of people and need to setup commissions and need to have advisors?? If a minister needs an advisor why do we need a minister?? can we not give that position to an advisor??

Anyway getting back to the point im sick of people saying its only €2 a day.... as someone pointed out in the UK some are charged £1000 per year so soon your little €2 a week will suddenly turn into €24 a week and its beyond believe that people dont see this and even more annoying that people dont see how easy it is for this tax not to be implemented!! Simply dont register and dont pay, if 95% of the country does not pay it will be abolished FACT!!!

For the do-gooders out there who are hell bent on paying this.. can I ask will you be the first one to pay air taxation, vegitable garden tax? Lawn mower carbon tax? waterbarrel meter charges????? Wake up guys this is why we are saying NO NO NO NO... you might laugh at this but its really the government that are laughing because the taxes above can and will be implemented because we will allow them and the people we have to thank for this is like bish and hound...

Please make the right decision and say NO... the government need to get there heads out of there rect$%s and start developing new ideas and stop bleeding us dry!!!

Tax increases are coming anyway, whether it's VAT, Water, Property or Stealth taxes, it doesn't really matter. I think they should cut tax credits by 20%, be far less moaning.

As for this tax, well it looks like the Anti people are the sheep and I think there is a good reason to bring this in, Irish people and the romantic attachment to their plot and that is all it is, an emotional attachment, over powering rationale.

We had a property tax in the 90's, it's what the Enda Kenny statement in 1994 is referring to. Populism got it scrapped and look what happened! An important tool in controlling the property market was removed and woe betide a populist party proposing a new property tax! Especially in a country that reducing taxes was gospel.

We're in a recession, raising taxes isn't a particularly great idea, neither are austerity budgets!

Phill Ewinn

They haven't even had the balls to tell the rest of Europe what the problem is. It's like they're hiding in the corner.

squod wrote: »

Should probably have watched vinnie browne. FG TD Peter Mathews met with some German committee. According to him they had no idea of our private debt to public debt ratio.

In equivalent terms, he said, it would be like Germany having €1.35 trillion of private debt hanging over it's economy. Would the Germans increase taxation and kill their economic growth at a time when growth is most needed??


Would they fuhk.

Mr CJ

K-9 wrote: »

Tax increases are coming anyway, whether it's VAT, Water, Property or Stealth taxes, it doesn't really matter. I think they should cut tax credits by 20%, be far less moaning.

As for this tax, well it looks like the Anti people are the sheep and I think there is a good reason to bring this in, Irish people and the romantic attachment to their plot and that is all it is, an emotional attachment, over powering rationale.

We had a property tax in the 90's, it's what the Enda Kenny statement in 1994 is referring to. Populism got it scrapped and look what happened! An important tool in controlling the property market was removed and woe betide a populist party proposing a new property tax! Especially in a country that reducing taxes was gospel.

We're in a recession, raising taxes isn't a particularly great idea, neither are austerity budgets!

Is this a serious comment?? So the abolition of the housing rates was the cause of the property boom??? and you say the anti people are sheep??

Need I say more if this is the response....

mikom

Mr CJ wrote: »

For the do-gooders out there who are hell bent on paying this.. can I ask will you be the first one to pay air taxation, vegetable garden tax? Lawn mower carbon tax?

Sad thing is you pay this every time you fill up the mower with petrol, or plug your electric one in.
Rapage.

eth0

Mr CJ wrote: »

Is this a serious comment?? So the abolition of the housing rates was the cause of the property boom??? and you say the anti people are sheep??

Need I say more if this is the response....

Property booms happen in places with property tax too

If they pushed up the stamp duty a good bit while giving first time buyers a discount they could have done a better job preventing it. This way only the people involved in buying and selling houses would have to pay. Or no tax codology at all and just limited the amount of new planning permissions being granted.

Property tax to prevent speculating is like sending every person in the country a 80e fine because some lads are driving too fast.

Pete M.

mikom wrote: »

Rapage

Ya wha?

K-9

eth0 wrote: »

Property booms happen in places with property tax too

If they pushed up the stamp duty a good bit while giving first time buyers a discount they could have done a better job preventing it. This way only the people involved in buying and selling houses would have to pay. Or no tax codology at all and just limited the amount of new planning permissions being granted.

Property tax to prevent speculating is like sending every person in the country a 80e fine because some lads are driving too fast.

They did give first time buyers discount with FTB Mortgage Interest Relief, increased it in 06 and again last year. Worth about 4k a year, cash in the hand, more now. Thing is, they don't get the cash in the hand, it's paid into the mortgage account and it doesn't register, they just assume it. All they see is the money going out of the account, same as Health Insurance Relief. That 4k never went onto my hand, so it quickly gets forgotten about. You see many articles about how much that tax relief cost us? You'll see plenty about developer reliefs!

Stamp Duty doesn't work, they meddled in it a few times. People didn't really care, especially with banks lending the way they did. People just seen the dream home and didn't fecking care about the 40k Stamp Duty. Caring a huge lot about a €100 though!

An annual property tax makes more sense, as in the uproar over this one, a once off stamp duty, sure add it to the mortgage, I'll pay it over 40 years!

eth0

K-9 wrote: »

An annual property tax makes more sense, as in the uproar over this one, a once off stamp duty, sure add it to the mortgage, I'll pay it over 40 years!

The fact that it was possible to add things to the mortgage at all did a lot to fuel our property boom and pretty much caused the US property boom & bust despite very high property taxes there

K-9

eth0 wrote: »

The fact that it was possible to add things to the mortgage at all did a lot to fuel our property boom and pretty much caused the US property boom & bust despite very high property taxes there

I see what you are getting at, but it's the emotional attachment to the ould plot here, an Irish thing.

People were perfectly happy to factor in mortgage tax relief in their mortgage payment calculations when it suited, because it meant less money going out, the opposite.........................

You'd think after a huge property crash they'd get over that emotional attachment. I thought a property crash could have had some positive aspects, the anti campaign shows me, property could be worth €-1,000,000 and so many Irish people would still kill over the ould plot.

It's something right and left wing politics don't stand a hope in hell of curing! Irrational thoughts.

eth0

K-9 wrote: »

I see what you are getting at, but it's the emotional attachment to the ould plot here, an Irish thing.

People were perfectly happy to factor in mortgage tax relief in their mortgage payment calculations when it suited, because it meant less money going out, the opposite.........................

You'd think after a huge property crash they'd get over that emotional attachment. I thought a property crash could have had some positive aspects, the anti campaign shows me, property could be worth €-1,000,000 and so many Irish people would still kill over the ould plot.

It's something right and left wing politics don't stand a hope in hell of curing! Irrational thoughts.

Not an Irish thing and you seem to be insinuating that its somehow bad that they are attached to their plot and if its your plot with your house on it then its only natural that you would fight over it and you wouldn't give two sh1ts what some lad on the open market thinks its worth. People all over the world stay on their plots despite impending disasters that are about to make it worth €-1,000,000 because they built it with their own two hands and everybody they know live around it.

People who sat on the same plot while this place turned gradually turned into the Celtic Tiger madhouse of excess that it did have the right to be pissed off that the government is looking to them for money to help clean up the mess.You shouldn't have to pay the government every year to be allowed keep it just because its possible to sell it for a certain amount. If the value of the house goes up do you want to increase the tax as well? like in the states only rich people can afford to live in places with high property tax, a great way of pushing people into the right area to live for their class.

The property crash has had positive effect - property is somewhat affordable again but a lot of it is still overpriced. The snobbery, the constant up-trading of houses, all the cowboys that got involved in property because it was the done thing - anyone who knew how to hold a shovel was a landscaper at one point.

MadYaker

To all you people complaining about bondholders and the Troika thats not where this money is going:

What will the household charge finance?
Revenues from the household charge will support the provision of local services. Internationally, local services are administered by local authorities and financed by local service charges. In Ireland, local authorities are responsible for, among other services, public parks; libraries; open spaces and leisure amenities; planning and development; fire and emergency services; maintenance and cleaning of streets and street lighting. These facilities benefit everyone.

Thats from https://www.householdcharge.ie/Faq.aspx#fk12

eth0

MadYaker wrote: »

To all you people complaining about bondholders and the Troika thats not where this money is going:



Thats from https://www.householdcharge.ie/Faq.aspx#fk12

It displaces money currently going to the councils freeing up more for the troika and the bondholders. Very old trick "we'll use all the money from this particular tax for (infrastructure or service everybody wants)" and I can't believe people are still falling for it

The Quadratic Equation

K-9 wrote: »

As for this tax, well it looks like the Anti people are the sheep and I think there is a good reason to bring this in, Irish people and the romantic attachment to their plot and that is all it is, an emotional attachment, over powering rationale.

I see your blueshirt Irish landlord fantasies are arising again.

df1985

Ill pay it if i get some sort of letter in the door, but at the minute im too lazy to find out even how to pay it.

Ill end up paying eventually.

Am Chile

df1985 wrote: »

Ill pay it if i get some sort of letter in the door, but at the minute im too lazy to find out even how to pay it.

Ill end up paying eventually.

You l get a leaflet sometime in the next two weeks about it, you won,t be getting a bill for it, by the way your last comment, I hope you have heard less then five per cent have paid in the first month.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jetUZABRlxg

hawkelady

Wouldnt it be alot fairer if everyone who has a roof over their head pay?? ie ,the people in councils houses and tenants etc... why wouldnt mrs Kenny adhere to this?? chicken perhaps....

The_Thing

MadYaker wrote: »

To all you people complaining about bondholders and the Troika thats not where this money is going:

Thats from https://www.householdcharge.ie/Faq.aspx#fk12

Local authority budgets have been slashed by an amount greater than that which would be raised if everyone were stupid enough to pay this €100.

Below is a clip from 6 April 2011 showing one of the blue-shirts before the election:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LTCT7QIeP8

However, almost a year later we have the following taken from the Irish Times website dated 26-1-2012 - http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0126/1224310758880.html

THE IRISH Stock Exchange yesterday announced the controversial five-year Anglo Irish Bank senior, unguaranteed and unsecured bond had ceased to exist as a security that could be bought and sold. A one-line statement simply said the listing of and trading in the bond had been cancelled.

This marked the repayment of €1.25 billion to senior unguaranteed bondholders at the full face value of the debt, meaning anyone who held the debt received 100 cents in the euro of its value.

Here's an article by Claire Daly on theJournal.ie - Why the household charge is a ‘gateway tax

As far as I'm concerned Phil Hogan and the rest of them can all fcuk off and die.

Don't register \ Don't pay

tayto lover

Originally Posted by K-9
As for this tax, well it looks like the Anti people are the sheep and I think there is a good reason to bring this in, Irish people and the romantic attachment to their plot and that is all it is, an emotional attachment, over powering rationale.

I have just as much of an attachment to the few remaining euro I have left. Like its nice to be able to have a pint or two at the weekend or to give the grandkids a few euro for the cinema.
I would rather do that than give it to the gamblers who took a chance and lost but who have been given their money back by our gobs***** because they think they can get recoup it from stupid Irish citizens who never object to anything. Well I am objecting and saying "no more".

dxhound2005

hawkelady wrote: »

Wouldnt it be alot fairer if everyone who has a roof over their head pay?? ie ,the people in councils houses and tenants etc... why wouldnt mrs Kenny adhere to this?? chicken perhaps....

I think you are right on this one in saying the Government probably chickened out of including council house tenants this year. In my eyes the Socialists have zero credibility in pretending to be for the interests of private property owners and their campaign is just agitation to disrupt the capitalist system and make themselves seem more re-electable. If council house tenants had been included this year their campaign would be able to say this was a charge on the most disadvantaged. So chickening out or real politik I'm not surprised by the Government decision.

However in future years there is bound to be a much bigger outcry from private home owners if this was to continue so I doubt whether they will be excluded totally from the system (maybe just higher rents). Another group which might have to pay more in future is private tenants as landlords will find some way of getting the money from them.

mikom

Don't register, don't pay.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLakgUosAsM

K-9

eth0 wrote: »

It displaces money currently going to the councils freeing up more for the troika and the bondholders. Very old trick "we'll use all the money from this particular tax for (infrastructure or service everybody wants)" and I can't believe people are still falling for it

Don't forget Welfare, PS pay and services here.

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

I see your blueshirt Irish landlord fantasies are arising again.

Far from a blueshirt laddie. One for the ignore button as adding no value whatsoever,

tayto lover wrote: »

Originally Posted by K-9
As for this tax, well it looks like the Anti people are the sheep and I think there is a good reason to bring this in, Irish people and the romantic attachment to their plot and that is all it is, an emotional attachment, over powering rationale.

I have just as much of an attachment to the few remaining euro I have left. Like its nice to be able to have a pint or two at the weekend or to give the grandkids a few euro for the cinema.
I would rather do that than give it to the gamblers who took a chance and lost but who have been given their money back by our gobs***** because they think they can get recoup it from stupid Irish citizens who never object to anything. Well I am objecting and saying "no more".

Don't forget the Welfare................................. for Irish people.

lividduck

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

It is a very common remark among the pro golden circle lackies, check out the applauding and guffaws approving and licking up to Bertie's vendictive remarks. Those type of people have not gone away you know.
But just like Bertie they always get away with it by pretending to say sorry afterwards.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfjGSfuSQpA

How come you haven't been banned for been a troll , cause you are insulting

The Quadratic Equation

lividduck wrote: »

How come you haven't been banned for been a troll , cause you are insulting

You're the one that got infracted/banned for telling people who are against the household banker/bondholder tax to go and commit suicide.

2pack

Im not paying thats for sure,
Fine Gael/labour are bunch of morons and power has went to their head,
Kenny is just a top notch fool, GREAT at backtracking and telling lies but little else, very very disappointing...

Just wait for it in the next few months you will hear of more cuts and even more lies from these cowboys , but suppose we have only ourselves to blame for putting up with it and not taking a stronger stand

squod

tayto lover wrote: »

.......gamblers who took a chance and lost

They haven't lost, that's the thing. Because they were allowed withdraw their capital and leave the banks with their debts. Now we have FF/Greens to thank for an almighty debt burden we should never have had.

This isn't hindsight in case someone points it out. Everybody new the state Anglo was in before the guarantees of Sept. 2008.

squod wrote: »

Gilmore repeats economic treason charge

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0113/1224287413015.html

Never forget.

The Quadratic Equation

“It is morally wrong, unjust and unfair to tax a persons home” – Enda Kenny, 1994

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gg1yfAdQsjQ

mikom

Galway folks, don't forget tonight.....

Galway County-Wide Public Meeting


A public meeting of the Campaign Against Household, Water and Septic Tank Taxes will take place in The Harbour Hotel Galway Monday 6th February @ 8pm.
Main Speaker : Clare Daly TD
http://nohouseholdtax.org/node/257

mickydoomsux

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

“It is morally wrong, unjust and unfair to tax a persons home” – Enda Kenny, 1994

Quoting something someone said 17 years ago is clutching at straws.

Things change.

The Quadratic Equation

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Quoting something someone said 17 years ago is clutching at straws.

Things change.

lol, since when did lies become truth ? Satan is the father of all lies.

squod

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Quoting something someone said 17 years ago is clutching at straws.

Things change.

Everything changes but the politics of gombeenism, cronyism, corruption and bolloxology.