Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

dxhound2005

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

You see the dogs in the street can smell propaganda and lies a mile away.

We prefer the views of qualified econimists and non golden circle lackies :

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2011/0507/1224296372123.html

Can you give us the words of that song again. They need to be repeated on every page just like the quote from Enda.

squod

K-9 wrote: »

Debating over what is a right thing to bring in is understandable, I've problems with the choices of FG/Labour, but the figures don't lie. Blaming the banks ignores a huge problem, blaming the IMF/EU the same.

The PS pension scheme will cost €180bn and is being described as a ponzy scheme by the popular economists and journos. A lot of them can afford their own pensions.

It makes no sense to raise the cost of living with these taxes. They just make us more uncompetitive and further hamper growth in the economy.
Lookat, we're ten months into FG's reign and there's no sign of improvement. They're as determined as the last crowd to pander to the wealthy, the unions, the minority lobby groups, their' mates and make the working poor pay their bills.

It's not reasonable. Honestly if I could, I'd have the whole fuhken government sectioned. They're obviously off their heads.

The Quadratic Equation

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Can you give us the words of that song again. They need to be repeated on every page just like the quote from Enda.

I realise your unable to dispute the facts so, sure no problem, I'm glad to. It is better than the lies and rubbish posted again and again by the shills.

“It is morally wrong, unjust and unfair to tax a persons home” – Enda Kenny, 1994

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcKoYGNj0BU

K-9

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

You see the dogs in the street can smell propaganda and lies a mile away.

We prefer the views of qualified professors in economics, not golden circle lackeys and shills :

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2011/0507/1224296372123.html

Nah, you prefer the view of the economist who suits your politics I'd say!

Slightly different view on that article, if lacking the we are all doomed commentary and attention seeking:

Economic Incentives: Some general government debt developments

boobar

gerryo777 wrote: »

Thanks boobar.
The point I'm getting at is this, I'm not going to pay this tax, my partner is not going to pay either so I'm just wondering who the government is going to come after to try and collect it?
We are refusing to pay because the only reason this is being brought in is to pay off debts that neither me or her incurred.
People will come on here and say that that isn't the reason this tax is being brought in but even the dogs on the street know that's not the case.
Next year it will probably be €1,000 and then there will be water charges on top of that.
Irishmen and Irishwomen, stand up and be counted!

Good point Gerry,

That's a very interesting approach. As I said in an earlier post, I will pay it myself, provided I get notification to pay. But I got berated for saying this.

I don't have a very convincing argument to make for paying it, and that's why I wouldn't make a point of bashing people online who are refusing to pay it.

The Quadratic Equation

K-9 wrote: »

Nah, you prefer the view of the economist who suits your politics I'd say!

I care for the truth. Politics = LIES

I much prefer the views of independent economists, as opposed to the few shills on the golden circle payroll

NOBEL PRIZE-winning economist Joseph Stiglitz has described the continued payments by the Government to [secret] unsecured bondholders as “unconscionable”.

Ireland’s chances of cutting its way back to health were negligible

In the complexity of the discussion over bondholders, Prof Stiglitz said simple facts were being overlooked: the unsecured bondholders were paid a normal interest rate for bearing a risk by investing in Irish banks, which was and is the nature of the market economy.

[url]
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2012/0127/1224310806521.html[/URL]

K-9

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

I much prefer the views of independent economists, as opposed to the few shills on your payroll

Seriously, you have a form of Tourette's with that word?

squod

K-9 wrote: »

Nah, you prefer the view of the economist who suits your politics I'd say!

Slightly different view on that article, if lacking the we are all doomed commentary and attention seeking:

Economic Incentives: Some general government debt developments

....plus whatever losses the Irish Central Bank has made on its emergency lending

I stopped reading after that. Those ''losses'' refer to the central bank counterfeiting €51bn to feed Anglo's debts. That not loss, that's theft.

The Quadratic Equation

K-9 wrote: »

Seriously, you have a form of Tourette's with that word?

I realise your unable to dispute the economic facts, so try insulting disabled people instead. There is no low your type will not stoop to.

Anyway, so they know what they are again, here's what a SHILL is :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shill

A shill, plant or stooge is a person who helps a person or organisation [golden cirlce] without disclosing that he or she has a close relationship with that person or organisation. Shill typically refers to someone who purposely gives onlookers the impression that he or she is an enthusiastic independent

K-9

squod wrote: »

I stopped reading after that. Those ''losses'' refer to the central bank counterfeiting €51bn to feed Anglo's debts. That not loss, that's theft.

Well if a term offends your sensibilities so much, probably better not read much more, anywhere, about it.

K-9

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

I realise your unable to dispute the economic facts, so try insulting disabled people instead. There is no low your type will not stoop to.

Anyway, so they know what they are again, here's what a SHILL is :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shill

No, I'm just commenting on what seems to be an uncontrollable urge of yours to call posters who disagree with you a shill.

Maybe don't judge people so quickly and easily and stop throwing cheap insults yourself, then you wont get any back. Or if you can't, don't moan when you get it back.

It isn't about disputing anything, just offering different views from Economists.

The Quadratic Equation

K-9 wrote: »

No, I'm just commenting on what seems to be an uncontrollable urge of yours to call posters who disagree with you a shill.

Maybe don't judge people so quickly and easily and stop throwing cheap insults yourself, then you wont get any back. Or if you can't, don't moan when you get it back.

It isn't about disputing anything, just offering different views from Economists.

Shill is factual, whereas trying to use people with Tourettes syndrome in a degrogatory fashion, as you have done, is your level. I hope you are proud of yourself. You see pride comes before the fall.

"Beware of the thing that is coming, beware of the risen people
Who shall take what ye would not give.
Did ye think to conquer the people, or that law is stronger than life,
And than men’s desire to be free?
We will try it out with you ye that have harried and held,
Ye that have bullied and bribed.
Tyrants… hypocrites… liars!"

The Rebel, by Patrick Pearse

K-9

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

Shill is factual

How you work that one out?

Pete M.

Now now ladies, keep it to the topic :cool:

And besides Equation, look at the poll. you're on the right side of it :cool:

And k-9, Luis is back against Spurs so it's all good

The longer the campaign goes on, the more people are confident enough to say that they won't pay, but we'll have to wait until after the deadline before we see who is good to their word.

A shill's a shill and a boat is a boat is all I know.

And that I won't be paying...

tayto lover

Pete M. wrote: »

Now now ladies, keep it to the topic :cool:

And besides Equation, look at the poll. you're on the right side of it :cool:

And k-9, Luis is back against Spurs so it's all good

The longer the campaign goes on, the more people are confident enough to say that they won't pay, but we'll have to wait until after the deadline before we see who is good to their word.

A shill's a shill and a boat is a boat is all I know :pac:

AND I know I won't be paying.

mikom

I won't be paying either.

lividduck

lividduck wrote: »

Jesuz if your lifes that ****e why not just do yourself in, I mean f**k the charge (which I paid) but you sound like one miserable poor bollox

mod: poster banned.

Im unbanned , but in fairness and all I take that back, suicide is a serious issue which I shoudn't have made a joke of and I meant no insult, just badly thought out humour.

The Quadratic Equation

lividduck wrote: »

Im unbanned , but in fairness and all I take that back, suicide is a serious issue which I shoudn't have made a joke of and I meant no insult, just badly thought out humour.

It is a very common remark among the pro golden circle lackies, check out the applauding and guffaws approving and licking up to Bertie's vendictive remarks. Those type of people have not gone away you know.
But just like Bertie they always get away with it by pretending to say sorry afterwards.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfjGSfuSQpA

Gareth2011

dxhound2005 wrote: »

This is what the Act says:

Financial Implications of the Bill
The Bill has no direct financial implications for the Exchequer as
the revenue from the €100 household charge will be lodged to the
Local Government Fund out of which funding will be provided by
the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local
Government to local authorities in the form of General-Purpose
Grants.

boobar wrote: »

Why does it matter where the money is going? Of course, it bloody well matters. Do you mindlessly hand over money every time you're asked for it without question?

My point is, some members of the government refer to this as a charge to fund local services.

All I'm suggesting is that if it is indeed for local services that it should be transparent as to where this money is being spent.

As a taxpayer, I think it's only right that I get to see the value that my taxes create.

The bit highlighted in bold is where the money is going. Its going to grants. I don't question where my taxes are going no and why should I? Its the law that they are paid so why should I suffer fines because I don't know where my taxes are going? I won't suffer its the non payers that will.

Jay D

This one still on the run?

Still haven't paid mine, hardcore so far, agree or not

lividduck

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

It is a very common remark among the pro golden circle lackies, check out the applauding and guffaws approving and licking up to Bertie's vendictive remarks. Those type of people have not gone away you know.
But just like Bertie sure you can always get away with it by pretending to say sorry afterwards.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfjGSfuSQpA

Cop on, i made a silly comment and i was adult enough to say sorry.
Whats your problem?

dxhound2005

Jay D wrote: »

This one still on the run?

Still haven't paid mine, hardcore so far, agree or not

Not very hardcore really. Still another 56 days before you have to pay.

Ghandee

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Not very hardcore really. Still another 56 days before you have to pay.

Why are you so pro paying? (genuine question)

Like, I don't think you'd jump with joy if your weekly wage/monthly salary cheque was ravaged by tax, so why are you so keen to see this one survives

mikom

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Not very hardcore really. Still another 56 days before you have to pay.

Better in his pocket for that period than being used to pay for Wilhelm's swimming pool.

dxhound2005

Ghandee wrote: »

Why are you so pro paying? (genuine question)

Like, I don't think you'd jump with joy if your weekly wage/monthly salary cheque was ravaged by tax, so why are you so keen to see this one survives

Haven't paid yet but will do so in a month or so, haven't voted in the poll either. I don't like paying no more than I like paying PAYE, VAT etc but I'm not going to put myself outside the law for €100 which I can afford. In the end I could see a situation down the road where I would't be able to sell without a whole load of hassle getting discharge certs for the years I didn't pay and having to fork out thousands more than necessary. By way of comparison the NPPR (second homes) tax has cost compliant people €600 so far but those who haven't paid now owe €2000 and rising by €60 every month. I could even see it affecting my credit rating although that is not mentioned in the legislation AFAIK. Just look at the trouble the tax defaulters got themselves into and how much their defiance of the law cost them in the end.

My advice and call me a sheep if you want to is that private house owners should think long and hard before defying the law and not to rely on the TD's who are leading this campaign to be there in the long run to stand up for them. If I am wrong and the campaign suceeds I will have lost €100 this year and I won't have to worry about the charge again. Genuine answer

Mr CJ

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

I am not trolling. I simply believe that this country needs to start making progress. We have an Eur18bn gap and the vast majority of people just don't seem to have a vision as to what might happen in this country if that isn't closed.

If there is this much hassle over a Eur100 charge that yields Eur160m, I would far prefer to have seen a much much larger charge introduced so that at least the debate might relate to something that's actually meaningful.

It's just my point of view, I'm sorry if it doesn't suit you.

Why is there so many sheep in this country, someone please answer?????????????????

People open your minds and think......

Bishop you are so right but so so wrong, yes the country needs to make progress correct, now please explain how this household charge is progress with respect to the massive increases of this charge over the next few yrs??

This charge and every other charge will have a negative effect same as VAT increases, people will have no choice but to spend less if anything at all and who will suffer? business's will causing more job losses.
As pointed out before on this, if people had not got the household charge to worry about, they would spend this money elsewhere ie in the majority of cases put it back into the Irish economy.

I will not pay this, not because I cant afford it, or not because I want a free for all, simply because the government have gone to far and we the Irish need to wake up, cop on, slap yourselfs across the face or what ever it takes for you to wake up and say NO.

If the government see that we mean business maybe then they may start implementing the common sense procedures and start alternative ideas to generate or save revenue, anyone with some common sense knows there are lots of ways to save money. Another point I would like to make, why do ministers need teams of people and need to setup commissions and need to have advisors?? If a minister needs an advisor why do we need a minister?? can we not give that position to an advisor??

Anyway getting back to the point im sick of people saying its only €2 a week.... as someone pointed out in the UK some are charged £1000 per year so soon your little €2 a week will suddenly turn into €24 a week and its beyond believe that people dont see this and even more annoying that people dont see how easy it is for this tax not to be implemented!! Simply dont register and dont pay, if 95% of the country does not pay it will be abolished FACT!!!

For the do-gooders out there who are hell bent on paying this.. can I ask will you be the first one to pay air taxation, vegetable garden tax? Lawn mower carbon tax? waterbarrel meter charges????? Wake up guys this is why we are saying NO NO NO NO... you might laugh at this but its really the government that are laughing because the taxes above can and will be implemented because we will allow them and the people we have to thank for this is like bish and hound...

Please make the right decision and say NO... the government need to get there heads out of there rect$%s and start developing new ideas and stop bleeding us dry!!!

The Quadratic Equation

lividduck wrote: »

Cop on, i made a silly comment and i was adult enough to say sorry.
Whats your problem?

We also heard exactly the same shyte from Bertie after his remarks.

You're the one that needs to cop on.

Fool us once, shame on you . . .fool us twice, shame on us.

Mr CJ

lividduck wrote: »

Trouble is they will say ignorance is no defence in law.
I am paying because 100 quids aint worth the hassle
now if that 100 was to turn into a grand well thats a different question.

This is how you are all going to be stung.... go ahead and register... congrats you have a binding contract to pay over €1000 I would say in about 5yrs could be sooner...

HELLO???????? IT WILL NOT STAY AT €100 LOOK AT THE BIN CHARGES FOR EXAMPLE BUT THIS CHARGE WILL BE WORSE

J.Marston

100 euro this year, what will it be next year 500, a 1000.Sign up now and it will be too late.It's a 100 this year to lure everyone in.Once they have your details your screwed ie septic tank, water charge, where will it end.What will it be used for, to prop up the banks that our politician friends all have shares in.

The_Thing

The Blue-Shirts don't have the balls to tell the bond holders to go fcuk themselves so we have to do it for them - Don't Register \ Don't Pay