Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

Ghandee

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Nope, that's not what i said at all. I said that if TDs are actively telling people to break the law, they should be fired.

If they want to oppose the charge, then fine, but it is beyond their remit to tell people what taxes they should and shouldn't decide to pay.

Would it be ok if they told people not to bother with motor tax or if they told people running their own businesses to fix their books to pay less tax?

Equally though, would it be ok if they started to pay people to pay their motor tax, tax returns etc?

Cos lets call a spade a spade here, they're effectively bribing paying people to go online and register.

If the law its the law, the public should just be told to pay the fcukin thing, or suffer the consequences!
Surprise surprise though, they aren't doing that (I wonder why?:rolleyes:)
Answer me, in all seriousness, why the 95% reduction as an incentive to get you to register for this charge?

Pete M.

K-9 wrote: »

The Shinners are getting their chance in the North.

But apparently their coalition Governments are different to ours!

PS. You jinxed Suarez.

Yeah, they are and not exactly sticking it to Cameron & Co. I know.

And for sure they is different up there.

But I would love to see what a properly & politically different government could do if in power. As in one that opposed the will of the IMF etc. and just stuck up for the people it represents, instead of selling off their futures.

And Suarez jinxes himself (such a kick at Parker love him though )

As for civil unrest etc. it's too cold now, srsly, but it's a comin I reckon...

There is real, actual opposition to this, not just online, but in the Real World too.

Mr CJ

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Nope, that's not what i said at all. I said that if TDs are actively telling people to break the law, they should be fired.

If they want to oppose the charge, then fine, but it is beyond their remit to tell people what taxes they should and shouldn't decide to pay.

Would it be ok if they told people not to bother with motor tax or if they told people running their own businesses to fix their books to pay less tax?

Ill try keep calm there is alot I want to say but ill end up getting banned probably.....

Ok first of all why in gods name is people raising the term motor tax please answer me? actually dont because im sure your answer will be more cr£$ This shows an insight to the mentality behind some of the posts

Wake up or is that possible?? this is not a discussion about motor tax or any other tax these are not the issue here, what is the issue is the government TRYING to screw the Irish person for a charge which is the easy way out.

I find it totally mind blowing that some people cant see the madness of this proposal, I have said it all before and im sick repeating myself.

We may aswel get out of the euro and print our own currency, anyone that has a small bit of knowledge in economics will understand how stupid this new tax is.

As for the people who think politicians should be fired for trying there damndest to destroy a ridiculous law, all I can say is I hope to god there are not many out there because then there is no hope for us at all!! Sounds like totalitarianism is what you want, next it will be anyone who says anything against the government will be imprisoned....

mickydoomsux

Mr CJ wrote: »

Ill try keep calm there is alot I want to say but ill end up getting banned probably.....

Ok first of all why in gods name is people raising the term motor tax please answer me? actually dont because im sure your answer will be more cr£$ This shows an insight to the mentality behind some of the posts

Wake up or is that possible?? this is not a discussion about motor tax or any other tax these are not the issue here, what is the issue is the government TRYING to screw the Irish person for a charge which is the easy way out.

I find it totally mind blowing that some people cant see the madness of this proposal, I have said it all before and im sick repeating myself.

We may aswel get out of the euro and print our own currency, anyone that has a small bit of knowledge in economics will understand how stupid this new tax is.

As for the people who think politicians should be fired for trying there damndest to destroy a ridiculous law, all I can say is I hope to god there are not many out there because then there is no hope for us at all!! Sounds like a dictatorship is what you want, next it will be anyone who says anything against the government will be imprisoned....

You managed to miss my point yet again and hit all the usual rabble-rabble, poorly thought out, rambling nonsense talking points.

I'm impressed.

We should get out of the Euro because of a €100 property tax. How does that even make sense in your head?

You think i want a dictatorship because i find it despicable that politicians who are getting paid out of tax receipts are telling people not to pay a certain tax. How about they take a wage cut that will cover the equivalent amount that will be taken in by the implementation of this tax instead?

tayto lover

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Is that David "BUY MY BOOK" Mc Williams narrating?

Another populist panderer.

Its a pity Brian Lenihan didn't listen to him though. We might have avoided most of this mess.

JCabot

The media are a bit quite about this

tayto lover

mickydoomsux wrote: »

You managed to miss my point yet again and hit all the usual rabble-rabble, poorly thought out, rambling nonsense talking points.

I'm impressed.

We should get out of the Euro because of a €100 property tax. How does that even make sense in your head?

You think i want a dictatorship because i find it despicable that politicians who are getting paid out of tax receipts are telling people not to pay a certain tax. How about they take a wage cut that will cover the equivalent amount that will be taken in by the implementation of this tax instead?

Maybe just maybe they see it as an unjust tax on a person's home. A home that already had Stamp Duty paid on it.

LaFlammeRouge

tayto lover wrote: »

Maybe just maybe they see it as an unjust tax on a person's home. A home that already had Stamp Duty paid on it.

They are fooling and conning people for political gain. You won't be able to sell a house with unpaid taxes. Revenue are the most efficient government department. They will **** you over, I see it everyday in my job. What Stamp Duty you paid is irrelevant.

Mr CJ

mickydoomsux wrote: »

You managed to miss my point yet again and hit all the usual rabble-rabble, poorly thought out, rambling nonsense talking points.

I'm impressed.

Alot of the points I made are correct with logic behind them and I did not miss your point at all, I understood it.

How do you honestly think the opposition in power can fight against this bill without the strategies they are using now?? Lets be honest they would not have a leg to stand on because they would be ignored!!

Lets be perfectly straight here, it is a fact that over 50% of the population oppose this new bill ok?? We have TD's acting for the majority of the Irish people which is fantastic and anyone objecting against the strategies of the opposition shame on them!! Im sure your the ones that voted Fine Fail all the time!!

This is called change and this is what the Irish wanted when they voted these TD's in!! Fair play to them thats all I can say!!

DONT REGISTER DONT PAY!!!!!! IGNORE THE SCAREMONGERS AND THE FOOLS, THESE ARE PEOPLE THAT DO NOT WANT CHANGE AND DO NOT GIVE A SHI4 ABOUT THE IRISH AND THIS COUNTRY

tayto lover

LaFlammeRouge wrote: »

They are fooling and conning people for political gain. You won't be able to sell a house with unpaid taxes. Revenue are the most efficient government department. They will **** you over, I see it everyday in my job. What Stamp Duty you paid is irrelevant.

No. I can see this one being terminated. People just fed up with all these new fund-raising taxes for Angels. We have reached our limit.

K-9

Snazzy_Chazzy wrote: »

Forward this on to as many as you know, very interesting!

“You won’t get a bill because the charge is a Statute. People need to understand this: A Statute is a “legislated rule of society given the force of law by the consent of the governed.”(Black’s Law Dictionary 4th edition). Who are those it governs? Us, the public.
This household charge is a Statute, otherwise known as an Act of Government and only carries the force of law upon you if you consent to it which means that you are legally obliged to pay if you consent or in other words go on to householdcharge.ie and register. Your silence and inaction will also give the appearance of no consent. If you do not consent, a Statute cannot affect you in any way whatsoever.
The courts know this and the last thing they will do is tell you. In fact they will hide this from you at every opportunity they can. On the other hand, if you tell them, they will accept it because they know it is actually true. According to the above definitions a statutory instrument is a contract. If you register for this “charge” you are consenting to this statute ie: signing the contract. This is why the Government are ASKING the people to register and not just billing them instead.”

People seriously take this stuff seriously, seriously?

Bloody sheep! I got it in an email or read it on Facebook!

Mr CJ

mickydoomsux wrote: »

We should get out of the Euro because of a €100 property tax. How does that even make sense in your head?

You think i want a dictatorship because i find it despicable that politicians who are getting paid out of tax receipts are telling people not to pay a certain tax. How about they take a wage cut that will cover the equivalent amount that will be taken in by the implementation of this tax instead?

You find it dispicable that politicians are fighting an unjust, unfair, crazy, mental, insane, ridiculous charge for the majority of the Irish public??? need I say more?

Thats the point, you would not understand this as your not thinking straight like most of the people for this tax. If you knew more about econimics you would understand my point.

I should of using the word totalitarianism instead of dictatorship my mistake but it seems that this is what you want....

K-9

Pete M. wrote: »

Yeah, they are and not exactly sticking it to Cameron & Co. I know.

And for sure they is different up there.

But I would love to see what a properly & politically different government could do if in power. As in one that opposed the will of the IMF etc. and just stuck up for the people it represents, instead of selling off their futures.

And Suarez jinxes himself (such a kick at Parker love him though )

As for civil unrest etc. it's too cold now, srsly, but it's a comin I reckon...

There is real, actual opposition to this, not just online, but in the Real World too.

What it comes down to as with all politicians, and the Shinners and ULA are no different, is self interest.

Tbh, I'd love to see the Shinners and ULA in power and trying to explain how Welfare, PS Pay and services aren't going to be hit, how we'll tell it to the IMF or leave the Euro!

Online opposition opposition matters little. Politicians might listen to people marching like the pensioners, too much effort when you can press a thumbs up and type angry words on a keyboard.

Mr CJ wrote: »

I find it totally mind blowing that some people cant see the madness of this proposal, I have said it all before and im sick repeating myself.

We may aswel get out of the euro and print our own currency, anyone that has a small bit of knowledge in economics will understand how stupid this new tax is.

Raising taxes or cutting Welfare, PS pay and services are both pretty dumb in a recession. I've yet to see anybody come up with a magic pill.

Pete M.

K-9 wrote: »

What it comes down to as with all politicians, and the Shinners and ULA are no different, is self interest.

I don't know about that. It hasn't been proven, which is why I'd to see them get the chance. Maybe once in power, they would prove it, but until then I know what side I'm on. Change is good as a rest eh?

K-9 wrote: »

Tbh, I'd love to see the Shinners and ULA in power and trying to explain how Welfare, PS Pay and services aren't going to be hit, how we'll tell it to the IMF or leave the Euro!

Then support them

K-9 wrote: »

Online opposition opposition matters little. Politicians might listen to people marching like the pensioners, too much effort when you can press a thumbs up and type angry words on a keyboard.

Fair enough. True it means bugger all, but is a small part of the propaganda war. But there are plenty more, along with myself, who are trying to make a difference out there.

K-9 wrote: »

Raising taxes or cutting Welfare, PS pay and services are both pretty dumb in a recession. I've yet to see anybody come up with a magic pill.

There is no magic pill and whatever solution there may be will be born out of some proper turmoil induced change.
We need something to rally about to get that change started and I think not paying this tax and building a campaign about it, nationwide, is a chance to build some real opposition to the way this country is being run and to try and change that for the better.

Sure beats just trying to maintain the status quo or throwing your hands up and saying things will never change.

Frank Black

Pete M. wrote: »

There is no magic pill and whatever solution there may be will be born out of some proper turmoil induced change.
We need something to rally about to get that change started and I think not paying this tax and building a campaign about it, nationwide, is a chance to build some real opposition to the way this country is being run and to try and change that for the better.

Sure beats just trying to maintain the status quo or throwing your hands up and saying things will never change.

rather than mouth meaningless platitudes, why don't you explain exactly how you think your approach will work?

I'd particularly like to hear how we go about funding our current deficit.

Mr CJ

Pete M. wrote: »

There is no magic pill and whatever solution there may be will be born out of some proper turmoil induced change.
We need something to rally about to get that change started and I think not paying this tax and building a campaign about it, nationwide, is a chance to build some real opposition to the way this country is being run and to try and change that for the better.

Sure beats just trying to maintain the status quo or throwing your hands up and saying things will never change.

Exactly this is precisely what we need! Its a breath of fresh air to see such common sense!!

There is no magic pill but there are solutions and plenty of them.

I will be the first one to pay this household charge when the government have exhausted all other possible solutions, but until that happens I will not pay this charge not because I cant afford it or not because I think its a rip off its because I want change!!

K-9

Pete M. wrote: »

I don't know about that. It hasn't been proven, which is why I'd to see them get the chance. Maybe once in power, they would prove it, but until then I know what side I'm on. Change is good as a rest eh?



Then support them



Fair enough. True it means bugger all, but is a small part of the propaganda war. But there are plenty more, along with myself, who are trying to make a difference out there.



There is no magic pill and whatever solution there may be will be born out of some proper turmoil induced change.
We need something to rally about to get that change started and I think not paying this tax and building a campaign about it, nationwide, is a chance to build some real opposition to the way this country is being run and to try and change that for the better.

Sure beats just trying to maintain the status quo or throwing your hands up and saying things will never change.

Because SF and the ULA are about a return to 80's tax policies, they mightn't agree with this tax, but they'll want a wealth tax and when that doesn't work, tax the middle classes. End up back in the same position.

Whatever about FG/FF, their first instinct isn't to tax the shyte out of everything. FG/FF would love not to introduce this tax, politicians after all. With the Shinners and the ULA it's the immediate reaction.

FG/FF and even Labour are going against ingrained thinking from the last 20 years, because, well, nobody has any better ideas!

dxhound2005

Pete M. wrote: »

Yeah, they are and not exactly sticking it to Cameron & Co. I know.

And for sure they is different up there.

But I would love to see what a properly & politically different government could do if in power. As in one that opposed the will of the IMF etc. and just stuck up for the people it represents, instead of selling off their futures.

And Suarez jinxes himself (such a kick at Parker love him though )

As for civil unrest etc. it's too cold now, srsly, but it's a comin I reckon...

There is real, actual opposition to this, not just online, but in the Real World too.

Let's play fantasy government. Taoiseach Joe Higgins, Minister for Finance Clare Daly. I know it's unfair to ask them to take over a capitalist nightmare and turn it into a socialist paradise but they seem to think the solutions are out there if other people weren't being so stupid.

So after they have sent the bondholders on their merry way minus their €30/50/200 billion or whatever it is and closed down Anglo Irish they turn their thoughts to taxation and spending. Increase income tax and introduce a wealth tax for the rich (fair enough) and slash unemployment with a Great Leap Forward in public works solving all the infrastructure problems in a year. So no more leaking water mains and free water for everyone for life. Those left on the dole would have their payment increased to above the poverty line and pensioners would get their Christmas bonus back.

But then Clare might turn to Joe and say what about the class enemy the private property owners and especially the land owners. They should be asked for more not a property tax but a social improvement contribution. The ones living in gated mansions in Malahide could pay €10000, ordinary houses could pay €500. And nobody here who says they will break the law because they don't agree with how the economy is being run now could object, these are honourable people who only take home the same as an ordinary working person.

K-9

Political arguments are kind of missing the point on this tax though.

This is Joe Higgins and the late 90's with bin rates. People in Castleknock with 2 cars, and 2 nice cars, giving a thumbs up to Joe.

2 cars was wealthy in those days, hard to comprehend for the Celtic Tiger Cubs who think giving up the iPod equates to starvation.

Pete M.

black francis wrote: »

rather than mouth meaningless platitudes, why don't you explain exactly how you think your approach will work?

I'd particularly like to hear how we go about funding our current deficit.

Well firstly....

Nah, fcuk it. I'll save myself for when I'm talking in the real world :P

And now ideals and hopes are just meaningless? Maybe to you boss :cool:

I'm just glad that the Nos have it in the poll above and you lot who would pay it, without any resistance, are trying so desperately to defend it.

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Let's play fantasy government. Taoiseach Joe Higgins, Minister for Finance Clare Daly. I know it's unfair to ask them to take over a capitalist nightmare and turn it into a socialist paradise but they seem to think the solutions are out there if other people weren't being so stupid.

So after they have sent the bondholders on their merry way minus their €30/50/200 billion or whatever it is and closed down Anglo Irish they turn their thoughts to taxation and spending. Increase income tax and introduce a wealth tax for the rich (fair enough) and slash unemployment with a Great Leap Forward in public works solving all the infrastructure problems in a year. So no more leaking water mains and free water for everyone for life. Those left on the dole would have their payment increased to above the poverty line and pensioners would get their Christmas bonus back.

But then Clare might turn to Joe and say what about the class enemy the private property owners and especially the land owners. They should be asked for more not a property tax but a social improvement contribution. The ones living in gated mansions in Malahide could pay €10000, ordinary houses could pay €500. And nobody here who says they will break the law because they don't agree with how the economy is being run now could object, these are honourable people who only take home the same as an ordinary working person.

Hilarious, really. You should include Ming in there someplace though.Maybe as ambassador for extraterrestrial activities maybe?

mickydoomsux

Pete M. wrote: »

Well firstly....

Nah, fcuk it. I'll save myself for when I'm talking in the real world :P

So you haven't got any sensible ideas then?

mikom

mikom wrote: »

Galway folks, don't forget tonight.....

Galway County-Wide Public Meeting

A public meeting of the Campaign Against Household, Water and Septic Tank Taxes will take place in The Harbour Hotel Galway Monday 6th February @ 8pm.
Main Speaker : Clare Daly TD
http://nohouseholdtax.org/node/257

Standing room only tonight folks...... even for the RTE crew.
I reckon "Hulk" Hogan's got a fight on his hands.

See for yourself...... http://i.imgur.com/nlIj3.jpg

dxhound2005

mikom wrote: »

Standing room only tonight folks...... even for the RTE crew.
I reckon "Hulk" Hogan's got a fight on his hands.

See for yourself...... http://i.imgur.com/nlIj3.jpg

Must have been pretty bizarre with the socialists telling the country people with their septic tanks how they are really loved private property all along.

mikom

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Must have been pretty bizarre with the socialists telling the country people with their septic tanks how they are really loved private property all along.

I wasn't worrying about that to be fair.
Shur all politicains change their minds.
*Looks down at sig*

Crowd was very vocal BTW.

Frank Black

Pete M. wrote: »

Well firstly....

Nah, fcuk it. I'll save myself for when I'm talking in the real world :P

And now ideals and hopes are just meaningless? Maybe to you boss :cool:

As I suspected - haven't got a clue have you?

Back to the t-shirts slogans with you.

lividduck

Snazzy_Chazzy wrote: »

Forward this on to as many as you know, very interesting!

“You won’t get a bill because the charge is a Statute. People need to understand this: A Statute is a “legislated rule of society given the force of law by the consent of the governed.”(Black’s Law Dictionary 4th edition). Who are those it governs? Us, the public.
This household charge is a Statute, otherwise known as an Act of Government and only carries the force of law upon you if you consent to it which means that you are legally obliged to pay if you consent or in other words go on to householdcharge.ie and register. Your silence and inaction will also give the appearance of no consent. If you do not consent, a Statute cannot affect you in any way whatsoever.
The courts know this and the last thing they will do is tell you. In fact they will hide this from you at every opportunity they can. On the other hand, if you tell them, they will accept it because they know it is actually true. According to the above definitions a statutory instrument is a contract. If you register for this “charge” you are consenting to this statute ie: signing the contract. This is why the Government are ASKING the people to register and not just billing them instead.”

No, not even the anti property tax are using this facile argument.

lividduck

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Is that David "BUY MY BOOK" Mc Williams narrating?

Another populist panderer.

A bit unfair, actually McWillliams has been a lot of the time, and a lot of what he says makes sense.
he has always struck me as independent minded, and certainly not afraid to tackle some of the misrepresntations coming from this Government and the last regarding the causes and potential remedies of the Euro and banking crisis.

donalg1

Mr CJ wrote: »

Exactly this is precisely what we need! Its a breath of fresh air to see such common sense!!

There is no magic pill but there are solutions and plenty of them.

I will be the first one to pay this household charge when the government have exhausted all other possible solutions, but until that happens I will not pay this charge not because I cant afford it or not because I think its a rip off its because I want change!!

Unbelievable, you seem to be the most confused person I have ever seen on Boards. You say the government needs to raise additional funds and therefore no one should pay their taxes???

Mind boggling!!!

gerryo777

donalg1 wrote: »

Unbelievable, you seem to be the most confused person I have ever seen on Boards. You say the government needs to raise additional funds and therefore no one should pay their taxes???

Mind boggling!!!

Eh, I think he said 'this tax' not all his taxes.

donalg1

gerryo777 wrote: »

Eh, I think he said 'this tax' not all his taxes.

Yeah but you see this tax was introduced as an interim measure to fund local services until the property tax is introduced. The money raised from this charge will help raise revenue for the government which is what he has said is needed. Yet he then says he wont pay this, very funny indeed poor lad.