LETS ALL LAUGH AT PEOPLE WITH DEPRESSION!!

nesf

guitarzero wrote: »

Can I ask what are the worst side effects with anti-depressants, preferably from your own experience? I've read loss of libido and suicide, which is pretty much paradoxical in the taking of them. I'm really considering them but I'm very cautious still.

I've seen two sides to the suicide thing. First is suicidal thoughts in teenagers where there weren't suicidal thoughts before, no one really knows why but it's a major issue with some types of antidepressants but not all antidepressants. The second is people were suicidal anyway suddenly having energy and motivation, which is a bad mix. In a hospital setting someone is put on serious suicide watch the moment they start acting like they're feeling better after being suicidal for a while. There's a damn good reason for this. That said, if someone is seriously suicidal then out-patient treatment isn't the best place for them.


There's no evidence though that these drugs will make an adult suicidal if they weren't already suicidal from what I've read.

Libido and other stuff can get a bit messed up. Varies from person to person, drug to drug. Some people don't experience this, some experience it with only one or two types of antidepressants and some with nearly all of them.


As always discuss this kind of thing with your doctor before taking any drug.

K-9

nesf wrote: »

The second is people were suicidal anyway suddenly having energy and motivation, which is a bad mix. In a hospital setting someone is put on serious suicide watch the moment they start acting like they're feeling better after being suicidal for a while. There's a damn good reason for this. That said, if someone is seriously suicidal then out-patient treatment isn't the best place for them.

Indeed, I know of a couple of cases were family members were released from suicide watch by the family because they looked great, felt fantastic and seemed to be "cured". Within a few days, well, you know the rest.........

People think rationally about these things. A suicidal person does as well, i.e. the rational objective is to achieve suicide. Acting normally and making the outside world think you are normal and "recovered" is very rational!

stupidusername

I've been at that point, where people ask are you ok, and i've said yeah feeling better etc. cause i've accepted i'm going nowhere, and all i'm doing by talking to a friend about it is bringing them down, when there's nothing they can do anyway.

cloud493

If I were a doctor, and someone who was in hospital for a suicide attempt claimed they were 'ok now' that would set alarm bells ringing.

Dudess

Re the stigma: I know a young woman who has been unwell for years, hasn't had a job for years, has a drink problem, is painfully thin, has cut marks on her arms, has disappeared for days, wound up in cells one night for being a danger to herself and others. She just moseys around in a daze every day - a kind and compassionate, intelligent, beautiful (seriously could have been a model but she of course doesn't see it), catatonic shell. In desperation, her friends got papers drawn up for her to be hospitalised - but her parents needed to sign them, and refused.
They couldn't face reality that their girl is mentally ill - the ultimate shame when they were growing up. It's a ****ing tragedy...

K-9

cloud493 wrote: »

If I were a doctor, and someone who was in hospital for a suicide attempt claimed they were 'ok now' that would set alarm bells ringing.

It does but when family members over ride professional opinion, there isn't a lot they can do.

The family think they are cured, 3 or 4 days in hospital, sure they are thinking "normally", bright, positive and cheerful. The daughter or son might complain about the care as well and all of a sudden it's "what would they know? I know my son/daughter".

Devastating consequences but it does happen.

PS. The reason the son/daughter is cheerful is they've planned the suicide down to every detail and are suddenly perfectly calm, cheerful and normal. Rational thinking after all.

cloud493

Oh yeah I don't disagree. I was exactly the same, people were asking ms if I was ok, even after being discharged, and I was telling everyone I was fine, moment of silliness, I was fine now. Still, it's a shame.

DeVore

I was told as a kid that various relatives suffered "with their nerves".

I grew up thinking members of my extended family were insensate.


You'd have to laugh it wasn't such a serious issue....

DeV.

K-9

cloud493 wrote: »

Oh yeah I don't disagree. I was exactly the same, people were asking ms if I was ok, even after being discharged, and I was telling everyone I was fine, moment of silliness, I was fine now. Still, it's a shame.

It's a terrible shame. People feel guilt after any suicide, 3/4 days after releasing the victim from a hospital against medical advice, must be absolutely horrible.

Thingy

Hello all,

I came across this piece in my research on depression to the point of suicide. The is a post I found on reddit.com (Are you allowed to repost from competitors ) Anywhoo. It had the following insight by David Foster Wallace on a person reaching the state of suicide.

"The so-called ‘psychotically depressed’ person who tries to kill herself doesn’t do so out of quote ‘hopelessness’ or any abstract conviction that life’s assets and debits do not square. And surely not because death seems suddenly appealing. The person in whom Its invisible agony reaches a certain unendurable level will kill herself the same way a trapped person will eventually jump from the window of a burning high-rise. Make no mistake about people who leap from burning windows. Their terror of falling from a great height is still just as great as it would be for you or me standing speculatively at the same window just checking out the view; i.e. the fear of falling remains a constant. The variable here is the other terror, the fire’s flames: when the flames get close enough, falling to death becomes the slightly less terrible of two terrors. It’s not desiring the fall; it’s terror of the flames. And yet nobody down on the sidewalk, looking up and yelling ‘Don’t!’ and ‘Hang on!’, can understand the jump. Not really. You’d have to have personally been trapped and felt flames to really understand a terror way beyond falling."

I never really understood how someone could reach that level until I read that quote.

Oh and there is a poem

For all the people who are dismissive of suicide and sick of the threads. Just take a breath and concentrate on breathing it for awhile. I know you have seen a lot of the inter web and you may be waiting for the next thread that will peak your interest and excite you. But that boredom in between is what makes the next YouTube clip or screwed up celebrity tweet all the more funny and sweet.

g'em

I've read this thread since its inception and at various times gone to post and then chickened out. But here goes...

I'm another one of those people who you'd never, ever think was 'depressed' to look at me and to know me casually. Outgoing, loud (often to the point of obnoxious ), gregarious - all words commonly associated with me. But that's the side of me that I let the world see. In 2002 I was first diagnosed with depression following a glorious summer spent working in Hawai'i - there I was, living in paradise, and I was waking up crying most days. Ludicrous huh? I sought therapy, I was medicated, I got worse, I changed medication, I got better, I declared myself well again. Happy days.

And then, over the years, I found myself needing to go back to therapy. It's just a top-up, I'd tell myself. It's because of stuff that's happening to me. But I'm not depressed. I've dealt with that. It's quite normal to fantasise about driving your car off a bridge or hope that my train will spontaneously crash into a wall and I'll be one of the 'un'lucky ones who don't survive... isn't it?

I spoke to a colleague who is a counsellor before Christmas. She said it takes the average person with depression ten years to accept their mental health status. It took me nine years and three months. A couple of months ago I remedicated and it has - quite literally - saved my life. I have depression. At times I suffer from it, at others it's quiet and it causes me no problems. But it's taken me nine years to accept that this is something I have, this is something I will always live with, it is something I will need to periodically take tablets to help me cope with it. And that's ok. It doesn't make me a lesser person, it doesn't make me weak, or at fault, or in anyway wrong or inadequate. It's just me, it's part of who I am, the same way that I have green eyes and an inny-bellybutton and one leg slightly longer than the other, I also have depression. And that's ok. It really is

guitarzero

Thanks for the replies.

Another thing I've come across is diet. I watched a vid about a woman who had been suffering of depression for a long time and switched her diet to taking in a lot of raw fruit/veg and omega 3's - salmon. Apparently it made a drastic difference for her. I'll try to find the link.

Does anyone have experience of diet making some form of impact?

steddyeddy

Thought I would post back on here again. Its been a tough festive season (sounds paradoxical I know) but Im making efforts to begin the road to recovery. Im back at college next week and it couldnt have came quick enough. Im also going to make an apointment with the college counsellor aswell. Friends have been very good to me over christmas I have to say. The worst has been going out with colleagues and feigning happiness if that makes sense.

nesf

guitarzero wrote: »

Does anyone have experience of diet making some form of impact?

No, I made massive changes to my diet for about 3 months. Felt great. Then I went into another depression and all that change went out the window. Might work for some people but it didn't help me.

I'd be extremely wary of people recommending extreme diets like all raw veg and similar. You should aim for a balanced one, maybe a high protein one (NOT Atkins), not something extreme like that.

djk1000

guitarzero wrote: »

Thanks for the replies.

Another thing I've come across is diet. I watched a vid about a woman who had been suffering of depression for a long time and switched her diet to taking in a lot of raw fruit/veg and omega 3's - salmon. Apparently it made a drastic difference for her. I'll try to find the link.

Does anyone have experience of diet making some form of impact?

Yeah, some fish oils have been shown to be an effective mood booster, google "plus EPA" a study (sponsored by the company) showed that epa extracted from fish oil can be very effective, particularly in combination with a prescribed antidepressant. EPA alone was as effective as Prozac. I've been taking it for a couple of months along with a new type of antidepressant (valdoxan) and I haven't felt this good in a long time!

g'em

I work in academia and I just got word that an undergraduate committed suicide last week. That's three young males who have taken their lives since November in this University alone. Three young men with their lives ahead of them who felt that they couldn't cope anymore, that they had no other option, that they felt the world would be a better place without them in it. As someone who works closely with these students I wish I could reach out to every single one of them to tell them that this someone is glad they are here - maybe that one gesture could help, who knows. Maybe being able to post here has saved someone's life, maybe it's been enough. I hope so.

Suicide is real, depression is real, it's happening on all of our doorsteps all of the time. It needs to be talked about and it needs to be addressed. This is a good start.

djk1000

g'em wrote: »

I work in academia and I just got word that an undergraduate committed suicide last week. That's three young males who have taken their lives since November in this University alone. Three young men with their lives ahead of them who felt that they couldn't cope anymore, that they had no other option, that they felt the world would be a better place without them in it. As someone who works closely with these students I wish I could reach out to every single one of them to tell them that this someone is glad they are here - maybe that one gesture could help, who knows. Maybe being able to post here has saved someone's life, maybe it's been enough. I hope so.

Suicide is real, depression is real, it's happening on all of our doorsteps all of the time. It needs to be talked about and it needs to be addressed. This is a good start.

2011 Government funding for road safety measures €40m road deaths 186, Government funding for suicide prevention €5m, deaths recorded as suicide 600+.

Add to that the suicides recorded as road deaths and death by misadventure and that 600 increases.

If I might suggest, the students and faculty in your University could make some noise, sign a petition, write an open letter to the Government. I think if this happens enough, eventually someone will listen.

sheesh

guitarzero wrote: »

Thanks for the replies.

Another thing I've come across is diet. I watched a vid about a woman who had been suffering of depression for a long time and switched her diet to taking in a lot of raw fruit/veg and omega 3's - salmon. Apparently it made a drastic difference for her. I'll try to find the link.

Does anyone have experience of diet making some form of impact?

yes apparently there is some research to suggest that fish oils can help also if you are deficient in vitamin C can lead to symptoms of depression.

Shryke

I'd like to say something here. I know it's well into the thread and it's been said before but there is help for everyone out there. I had an awful time for a good long while. I was always depressed, tired and anxious. I was very in the dumps for ages and I thought it was all just in my head. That I was the problem, but it wasn't the case. I wish it was as easy for everyone else in the end for me.
It seems a vitamin deficiency slowly led me to become anemic. There's a long list of symptoms and they're quite vague. More or less you just feel awful constantly. The realisation took a long time to come, and I was very worried about myself at times. It's hard to believe how unwell I probably was now, and how simply getting a high dose of vitamins brought me back from all of that. Like I said it would be great if that solution worked for everyone but, I don't know. Things can get better and there's help around the corner whatever problems there might be. I don't know if I can articulate what I want to say any better than that really, I'll leave it at that. Be well everyone.

nesf

sheesh wrote: »

yes apparently there is some research to suggest that fish oils can help also if you are deficient in vitamin C can lead to symptoms of depression.

Yeah but nothing conclusive yet on either one unfortunately. Would be great if they turned out to be conclusively effective since they're so available and relatively cheap.

Sarky

Eating healthily generally contributes to feeling a bit better about yourself. Exercise releases endorphins, fit people usually like the way they look, things like that. Certainly being overweight or eating poorly can contribute to depression, which can cause a nasty cycle of eating because you're unhappy and being unhappy because you eat too much. It's not a clear relationship by any means, but a healthy diet is never a bad idea, depressed or not.

When I was depressed, I had the strangest craving for blueberries or similar fruit. I wouldn't be surprised if they contained mood-boosting something-or-other.

nesf

Sarky wrote: »

Eating healthily generally contributes to feeling a bit better about yourself. Exercise releases endorphins, fit people usually like the way they look, things like that. Certainly being overweight or eating poorly can contribute to depression, which can cause a nasty cycle of eating because you're unhappy and being unhappy because you eat too much. It's not a clear relationship by any means, but a healthy diet is never a bad idea, depressed or not.

When I was depressed, I had the strangest craving for blueberries or similar fruit. I wouldn't be surprised if they contained mood-boosting something-or-other.

It's a good idea certainly for loads of other reasons. But as a proof against depression? Not much evidence for that really.

Meditation on the other hand has quite a bit of evidence in its favour. Ditto Yoga with psychosis etc.

Linkie: http://cebmh.warne.ox.ac.uk/csr/mbct.html (i.e. good for people with many past episodes of depression, not shown to be effective for people with only one or two episodes, possibly indicating that the former lack some kind of ability to manage emotions that mindfulness helps with)

steddyeddy

nesf wrote: »

It's a good idea certainly for loads of other reasons. But as a proof against depression? Not much evidence for that really.

Meditation on the other hand has quite a bit of evidence in its favour. Ditto Yoga with psychosis etc.

Linkie: http://cebmh.warne.ox.ac.uk/csr/mbct.html (i.e. good for people with many past episodes of depression, not shown to be effective for people with only one or two episodes, possibly indicating that the former lack some kind of ability to manage emotions that mindfulness helps with)

I have recently started meditation and although Its early days yet I can see how it would be benificial.

nesf

steddyeddy wrote: »

I have recently started meditation and although Its early days yet I can see how it would be benificial.

I found it very helpful with anger issues for what it's worth. Depression has never been my main problem so not sure if it's helping there or not.

I do need to practice what I preach more, I've meditated once in the past month when I should be doing it for 10-15 minute daily.

Wibbs

nesf wrote: »

It's a good idea certainly for loads of other reasons. But as a proof against depression? Not much evidence for that really.

There may be a link with Vitamin D alright N. Here's another. I recall a couple of studies that found both vit d and medication made a cumulative improvement, but sadly can't find it online at the moment. I suppose it would make sense in particular for those folks with the seasonal type of depression, IE not just the lack of bright light triggering brain chemistry changes, but also the vitamin D3 produced by it. Might be worth it for some to talk to their health professional about some supervised supplementation anyway.

nesf

Wibbs wrote: »

There may be a link with Vitamin D alright N. Here's another. I recall a couple of studies that found both vit d and medication made a cumulative improvement, but sadly can't find it online at the moment. I suppose it would make sense in particular for those folks with the seasonal type of depression, IE not just the lack of bright light triggering brain chemistry changes, but also the vitamin D3 produced by it. Might be worth it for some to talk to their health professional about some supervised supplementation anyway.

That's vitamin D not general dietary change though. I was referring to the latter, supplementing with vit D or fish oils has some conflicting evidence in favour of it, no question. There just weren't strong meta studies showing them to be effective last time I checked.

InTheTrees

What about Vitamin B?

Isnt it known as the mood enhancer?

saa

guitarzero wrote: »

Thanks for the replies.

Another thing I've come across is diet. I watched a vid about a woman who had been suffering of depression for a long time and switched her diet to taking in a lot of raw fruit/veg and omega 3's - salmon. Apparently it made a drastic difference for her. I'll try to find the link.

Does anyone have experience of diet making some form of impact?

From my experience I reckon: this is more of a general diets and mental health so don't worry if some things arent applicable.

Short answer: Yes it makes the world of difference, you can't take care of your mind fully without caring for body. But
no to diets if you have issues with food or body image (may cause you to relapse on your diet or go back to old ways if the issue isn't just with the food itself) you need to sort those out slowly along with the lifestyle over time or else they will still be there,unresolved regardless of weight or health nutrition wise, just sayin that might be the problem but good whole food always help some people should phase them in, if you can handle "switching" do it but mind yourself.

Long answer:
I would strongly advise against if you are going to get stressed over it for the sake of your mental health or crash then you would be the type of person who would benefit from bringing in changes over time or managing and tackling bad food habits over time, but getting out and exercising always help as some fella once said "there never was one run I regretted" well a jog or walk for me.

I sway towards the over time change thing because after 5+ failures in these "big changes" it becomes more difficult, but I know it works for some people and after a month eating well good food becomes much more delicious, you crave exercise and couldn't imagine life being like it used to (well thats me until the depression comes back and then its back to not caring)
Yes many foods we drift towards leave us with less energy and our diets are usually not balanced, I believe it would improve just about everyones mood but I'd say the results depend on the cause but I don't see what you've got to lose! the best place you can be with you body is content that it isn't something you think about a lot you just take care of.

Snowie

steddyeddy wrote: »

I have recently started meditation and although Its early days yet I can see how it would be benificial.

man meditation can be washing the dishes to sweeping floors to anything you want

i think jogging to a degree is the same i recon...

puzzles the hole point of meditation is to soley concentrate on one task so the rest gains peace...

tho I also found when i was suffering from my dark days.. That my life style was messy as much as my way of life I think its important if your suffering depression not to sit there feeling sorry for your self, the key to beating it is the ability to go enoughs enough and just bull throughout the want to sit there and make use of your time. like keeping organized I think thats a really for filling method, which bassiacly means you give your self a time table and a routine... which i think we all need when were in that state of mind...

at last but not least dark chocolate can be a god send

opinion guy

Wibbs wrote: »

This is the part that really makes me angry. We have some very good mental health professionals in this country, but they often struggle with the support system around them that is too often underfunded. For people already struggling with this curse to have to deal with that borders on a crime. On a weekly basis more people are leaving us and their families than are taken in car crashes. I'd warrant way more, yet there are a lot more resources being aimed at road safety than aimed at mental health. That's fcuked up IMH. I'm not saying road safety isn't important. It clearly is, but stats wise as a society we need to be looking to the all too often hidden waste of good people elsewhere. Waste that could be reduced. That doesn't include the many more and their families and friends who are fighting and surviving through this.

Of course you realise why - car crashes make big dramatic messes and everyone can see and politicians can be held accountable and can be seen to do something about it ("He FIXED the ROAD")
Depression is quite and people don't talk about it, and politicians haven't a clue how to deal with it and thus can't take credit. On the flip side if it doesn't work they can be seen as wasting money. Roads are almost never seen as a waste of money.

Wibbs wrote: »

There may be a link with Vitamin D alright N. Here's another. I recall a couple of studies that found both vit d and medication made a cumulative improvement, but sadly can't find it online at the moment. I suppose it would make sense in particular for those folks with the seasonal type of depression, IE not just the lack of bright light triggering brain chemistry changes, but also the vitamin D3 produced by it. Might be worth it for some to talk to their health professional about some supervised supplementation anyway.

Vitamin D is the sexy vitamin these days. There are tonnes of studies coming out on it in relation to many conditions.