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Why is suicide so common here?
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TeddyTedson wrote: »The number of suicides here is obviously a huge problem, but what do people think some of the reasons are?
Accusations of being a troll and then subsequently banned can take its toll on some people and push them over the edge.
So, I would say, heavy-handed modding plays its part in a very small number of cases.
With great power. . . .0 -
MrStuffins wrote: »No need for that lads. If you disagree with my points then say so, no need for what you're doing here.
You must be the most irritating poster I have seen in some time. Those two are just acting out their frustration.
Threads like these is why we need 24-hour moderation.0 -
You must be the most irritating poster I have seen in some time. Those two are just acting out their frustration.
Threads like these is why we need 24-hour moderation.
What the hell is this all about?
What ever happened to attack the post and not the poster?
How exactly have I irritated you sir? DO you have an issue with my points?
If you have a problem with my posts, report them. There are mods online right now. And if you have a problem with me, feel free to PM me.0 -
MrStuffins wrote: »What the hell is this all about?
What ever happened to attack the post and not the poster?
How exactly have I irritated you sir? DO you have an issue with my points?
If you have a problem with my posts, report them. There are mods online right now. And if you have a problem with me, feel free to PM me.
I read seven pages of comments on this thread, and I can't tell whether your comments are designed to wind people up or not. You started off with a corker:MrStuffins wrote: »This is pretty amazing! As if suicide is smallpox and we need to discover some sort of key ingredient or make some sort of breakthrough and BANG..... suicide is no more.
Cop on lads jaysus! :rolleyes:
I am not going to quote every single one of your comments. Some of them did seem to engage on the subject, but it was as though you could not decide whether you wanted to be funny, or serious.
This little 'conversation' was annoying to read.:MrStuffins wrote:Maybe you haven't been able to put across your thoughts as well as you can up until now but so far one of the things you've said is that a cause for suicide is that there is no possibiliy of negative repercussions in the afterlfe.
I strongly disagree!applehunter wrote:What are you thoughts?MrStuffins wrote:My thoughts on suicide in general or my thoughts on religion as a factor?applehunter wrote:On the thread title.Well we don't have a specifically high suicide rate.
After all that, your thoughts are that we dont have a specifically high suicide rate? Then why bother with this back and forth? Why not just say that?
To respond to your PM publiclyMrStuffins wrote:Mind telling me what exactly your problem is on the suicide thread?
If you've got a problem with my points, discuss them. Calling me irritating is just petty and childihs if you ask me. I've no idea who you even are. I don't think i've ever spoken to you on Boards before.
Regards.
And I am sorry if I offended you with my comment but I honestly could not tell if you are being genuine or not. My intent was not to be either petty or childish, but that is how you come across.0 -
I read seven pages of comments on this thread, and I can't tell whether your comments are designed to wind people up or not. You started off with a corker:
I explained later in the thread why I said what I said in that comment. It was because a poster earlier in the thread said that the circumstances surrounding suicide should be "eradicated". That word is generally used when speaking about viruses or infectious diseases which is why I said "Smallpox". it completely fails to take into account the complexities of the human psyche, human emotions, the complex web of reasons, whether they be psychological or personal, contributing to ones decision to commit suicide.
To claim that some general circumstance can be discovered and "eradicated" and BANG, the end of suicide, shows the lack of understanding surrounding the issue by some people.I am not going to quote every single one of your comments. Some of them did seem to engage on the subject, but it was as though you could not decide whether you wanted to be funny, or serious.
This little 'conversation' was annoying to read.:
After all that, your thoughts are that we dont have a specifically high suicide rate? Then why bother with this back and forth? Why not just say that?
Well, I did when i was asked. What I was speaking about before was the posters' ill concieved (IMO) notion that drink, drugs and lack of religion were the 3 main reasons for suicide. 3 horribly superficial reasons (IMO) and you can read my thoughts on that in the thread.To respond to your PM publicly
And I am sorry if I offended you with my comment but I honestly could not tell if you are being genuine or not. My intent was not to be either petty or childish, but that is how you come across.
I seriously don't appreciate you posting my PM on the forum. Not because I said anything wrong, but because it is a PERSONAL message, hence the acronym PM. It's just not cool!0 -
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MrStuffins wrote: »I explained later in the thread why I said what I said in that comment. It was because a poster earlier in the thread said that the circumstances surrounding suicide should be "eradicated". That word is generally used when speaking about viruses or infectious diseases which is why I said "Smallpox". it completely fails to take into account the complexities of the human psyche, human emotions, the complex web of reasons, whether they be psychological or personal, contributing to ones decision to commit suicide.
Yeah you explained later in the thread but it was like getting blood out of a stone. Why could you not be up front about your opinions and engage. Instead of making cryptic comments, and one line answers. It was very annoying to read.MrStuffins wrote:To claim that some general circumstance can be discovered and "eradicated" and BANG, the end of suicide, shows the lack of understanding surrounding the issue by some people.
The first line of the thread includes "... what do people think some of the reasons are[for suicide]?
So my understanding is the point of the thread was to discuss what some of the reason might be. No-one said Drink, drugs and no religion were the three reasons, they were just opinions put out in a discussion. You seemed to take an affront to them but didn't clearly state why for some time.MrStuffins wrote:Well, I did when i was asked. What I was speaking about before was the posters' ill concieved (IMO) notion that drink, drugs and lack of religion were the 3 main reasons for suicide. 3 horribly superficial reasons (IMO) and you can read my thoughts on that in the thread.
When pushed on it, as per my above example, you said you didn't think we have a specifically high suicide rate. Another one line answer. You were given ample oppertunities to explain yourself but instead it seemed like you were being obtuse on purpose, which I found genuinely irritating.MrStuffins wrote:I seriously don't appreciate you posting my PM on the forum. Not because I said anything wrong, but because it is a PERSONAL message, hence the acronym PM. It's just not cool!
Well to be honest I didn't appreciate getting a PM from you asking why I thought you were irritating, mere moments after you had asked same on the thread and while I was concocting a reply.
I have apologised. I suggest we leave it at that.0 -
You lads give more bad credit to Ireland then should.
I was on a road to suicide, because extremely complicated relationship with parents, financial difficulties.
The thing that saved me: grab my misses hand and run away from all my surroundings. Came to Ireland to start a new life, it was hard to start everything from zero, but it was worth it. now I couldn't be more happier and I newer though of suicide ever again.
There are tons of reasons why young people go for a suicide: financial problems, family, social life. It's even harder to find the person on a road to suicide, Those who really want to go for it and don't just want attention are almost invisible.
The other problem: so called friends and family members can do more harm then actuolly help. Sometimes you just need to get out from everything, just to put things in theyr places.
So trust me, ireland is not the worst place in the world. It's a good place. Just need less talk about how bad things are and howit all goes to hell. It does more harm then help.0 -
After waking up earlier to this weather has me convinced the weather is a big factor. You often hear people refer to the weather as being depressing. The lack of vitamin D has been suggested to be a factor.0
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Yeah you explained later in the thread but it was like getting blood out of a stone. Why could you not be up front about your opinions and engage. Instead of making cryptic comments, and one line answers. It was very annoying to read.
I was upfront. And when asked questions i answered them.
If you wanted to know something maybe you should've, you know, asked me. Then you'd have an answer!The first line of the thread includes "... what do people think some of the reasons are[for suicide]?
So my understanding is the point of the thread was to discuss what some of the reason might be. No-one said Drink, drugs and no religion were the three reasons, they were just opinions put out in a discussion. You seemed to take an affront to them but didn't clearly state why for some time.
Wrong.applehunter wrote: »3 main things for me
1. Alcohol misuse
2. Drug misuse
3. Reduced roll of God/religion in peoples lives.
The poster said they were the 3 MAIN reasons. I disagreed.
I think you'll find I clearly stated why I believed why all 3 of these reasons were wrong in my opinion. If you have a problem with the time it took the conversation to develop then that's not my fault.When pushed on it, as per my above example, you said you didn't think we have a specifically high suicide rate. Another one line answer. You were given ample oppertunities to explain yourself but instead it seemed like you were being obtuse on purpose, which I found genuinely irritating.
Again, I explained myself in detail throughout this thread on all of the topics in the OP and the ones which occured naturally in the thread. But in the case of us having an unusually high suicide rate, i didn't believe this to be true. I don't know what more detail you wanted.Well to be honest I didn't appreciate getting a PM from you asking why I thought you were irritating, mere moments after you had asked same on the thread and while I was concocting a reply.
I have apologised. I suggest we leave it at that.
Well if you didn't appreciate it you could've either told me so through PM or you could've simply ignored it.
Apology accepted.0 -
I attempted suicide twice as a teen I realise now thou it was brought to a head by pms. I think pms in female suicide is an underated cause. I still get suicidal before my period but have learned to cope. Now of course I have reasons in my life that make it very difficult to live more so than most but I do hope my first port of call will be to run away if I ever get that bad again.
I also think the attitude of the Irish, everything is a laugh and a joke you dare not be serious and people don`t want to be around you if you are, if you have problems don`t talk about them too much. I think even with family relationships can be superficial here people are very selfish and only here for the good times. I don`t drink and am a bit different so I never fitted in and not fitting in in a country this small is a problem but then the ones who do commit suicide are commonly the ones no one expects the ones who really fit in, They probably here what people say about weirdo`s like me and never want to be spoke of like that so say nothing.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/46479466/Bill-Zeller-Suicide-Note
Here is someone justifying his actions in commiting suicide and I think it does accurately display what a lot of people feel when they realise their past is unsurmountable.0 -
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Intolerance to mental health, the infastructure not in place to deal with mental health.
The get on with it method of dealing with unhappiness.
societies contempt for a person so that they must always conform to a stereotype resulting in wearing a false mask that one day will become to much to bear.
The preasure put on people, simple people who cannot deal and should not have to deal with the stress resulting from financial and business mistakes, sadly in Ireland there is a very unforgiving nature, were great in death but a bit judgmental in life.
The lack of mental health education with primary and secondry school teachers who 99% of the time will miss the signs of someone who can become now or in the future suicidal.
The cynical and financially obsessed media turning people into the same where regard for what they have and what they want
and what they could have outweighs and is currently eroding the good spirit that can exist between people.
The people we elect putting institutions before the mentaly ill.
The selfish nature that is society.
Health care professionals not being very professional.
Lifes expectations becoming to lofty and forgetting about nature and what nature has to offer.
When sadness far outweighs happiness.
I could go on but its pointless, fact is there is far too little help for those who need it, in a proffessional and personal manner.0 -
The way the Irish family is raised and their beliefs definitely doesn't help. I don't know of any families where they openly discuss feelings and emotions and if there are some then it is a minority. There is the typical "come on now, snap out of it" approach. I don't know if it's the fact that Irish people are shy or they don't know how to express their feelings, but we are quite awkward when dealing with emotional issues. Very few would consider getting professional help for fear of what others think. A lot of people were raised in very religious communities and segregated schools and lacked the foundations for developing relationships with the opposite sex, alcohol is then used as a fuel to breaking this barrier. The fact that there is so much peer pressure to go out and binge drink at the weekends doesn't help someone who is fragile.
These issues need to be tackled from an earlier age. The religious guilt trip needs to be eliminated from the schools, proper alcohol education programs need introducing, social integration & development programs should be part of the curriculum, teenagers need more social outlets that doesn't revolve around alcohol, teens need to be able to express themselves, social workers should be available to schools so that problem issues can be tackled.0 -
Alcohol and drugs, poor diet and not enough excercise.
Some say people were found dead without any alcohol in their bodies but you can still be depressed days after drinking lots of alcohol in 1 session. (binge drinking)
I don't believe the health system offers practical advice.
Most people who visit their GP for depression get sent away with a prescription for some anti-depressants and these could also be contributing factor in suicide if unsupervised.
Yes, I'm saying anti-depressants can actually lead a person to suicide (well documented)0 -
I was in a taxi a few days ago and the driver was telling me how young people weren't drinking to have the craic any more, but drinking to get drunk. Though the memory of my own juvenile drinking period is a bit hazy, that's something new. I reckon there are a lot more mental health problems coming down the road in the next ten to fifteen years.The fact that there is so much peer pressure to go out and binge drink at the weekends doesn't help someone who is fragile.
While not a religious man myself, being more spiritual, I do think that religions play a positive role in preventing suicide, for several reasons. First is the link religion claims with the afterlife, which for the faithful is a serious impediment in that there are consequences after the act, and second is that priests and so on are usually trained counsellors even when society doesn't provide one. Plus, if you think your body is just a meat machine running around the place, well why not turn it off like any other machine. If you think there's something more, you take it a bit more seriously.
Its amazing how much of positive mental attitude is literally just choosing to feel good though, making the decision to smile and play up the little successes. The harshest critic is usually the one looking back at you from the mirror. And yet so few people know this, let alone practise it.0 -
pappyodaniel wrote: »Where's this São Tomé & Príncipe and why is it the only country in the world with a higher suicide rate for females over males?
The name of the country as it appears in the list is a link to its Wikipedia page. Why would you even pretend not to have known that?
I don't see any obvious pattern in the list of countries. There are places with Caribbean climates at both ends of the table, poor countries mixed in with rich ones throughout, peaceful ones side by side with violent countries and secular states right alongside strongly religious ones.
Haïti is by any standards just about the worst place in the world to live yet people still don't seem to be driven to suicide by just how awful their lot is.0 -
The biggest factor for young men in this country is simply not talking about it, and im speaking from experience.Ive told my story before on other depression/suicide threads.
Point is....I rang the samaritans twice, middle of the night, in a state.....and went to my gp once. hey presto, just talking about it a massive weight lifted off my shoulders and ive been fine since.All the pain I had bottled up for months and months while putting on a smile disappeared.
Theres no shame in asking for help.0 -
The only people who know why they did it are gone now, sadly.
Lack of belief is not a factor, if anything depression drives people to or back to belief.0 -
PMDD or something along that line is what's its called, I'm like that as well, I read a piece by a woman who eventually got a full hysterectomy and she basically was a different person after due to the fact the hormones were not affecting her any moreI attempted suicide twice as a teen I realise now thou it was brought to a head by pms. I think pms in female suicide is an underated cause. I still get suicidal before my period but have learned to cope. Now of course I have reasons in my life that make it very difficult to live more so than most but I do hope my first port of call will be to run away if I ever get that bad again.
I also think the attitude of the Irish, everything is a laugh and a joke you dare not be serious and people don`t want to be around you if you are, if you have problems don`t talk about them too much. I think even with family relationships can be superficial here people are very selfish and only here for the good times. I don`t drink and am a bit different so I never fitted in and not fitting in in a country this small is a problem but then the ones who do commit suicide are commonly the ones no one expects the ones who really fit in, They probably here what people say about weirdo`s like me and never want to be spoke of like that so say nothing.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/46479466/Bill-Zeller-Suicide-Note
Here is someone justifying his actions in commiting suicide and I think it does accurately display what a lot of people feel when they realise their past is unsurmountable.0 -
guitarzero wrote: »I could think of a few reasons for suicide.
- Feeling unloved
- Feeling inadequate
- Having no beliefs
- The struggle of working and striving outweighing its reward.
- Incapable of feeling happiness is a good one.
- Having personality disorders such as aspergers, BPD, etc
- Feeling you've gone beyond your peak in life
- Not being liked by the opposite sex
- Being alone all the time due to not relating to people.
- Not having an interest in sex
- Losing someone so dear to you and having no one else in your life
- Apathy
- Having no creativity
- Being boring/bored
- No religious belief to judge your act (Im sure many in the past would have thrown in the towel long ago had they the same lack of belief as folks today)
Seriously, I could go on but I wont. What I find particularly interesting is people who cant understand suicide.
12 out of 15 for me but i dont feel like topping myself. i think i would drown myself if i was going to do it though. just jump into the water with a heavy slab and when im down far enough try to breath in. id rather do it somewhere the water is warm and clear though. i dont like when i cant see the bottom.0 -
odd. NObody has mentioned debt as a cause yet.0
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I see lack of religious belief coming up as a possible cause for suicide and I have to make a point on it.
The fear of repercussions in the afterlife may prevent some people from ending their life but it's not a valid response to suicide rates.
It's the equivalent of me telling a suicidal person if they kill themselves I'll kill their family. Sure, it may prevent them from committing suicide but it doesn't address the issue nor would anybody suggest my lack of threats are responsible for suicide rates.
On the other hand Faith may help someone get out of the suicidal mindset but I'm sure plenty of religious people have ended their own life because they believe God has abandoned them which is the only reason they can see why they are where they are. It can be a double-edged sword in this respect.
I'm sure most would agree that economic situation, family situation and personal mental health are much greater factors, and I'm not saying religion isn't or can't be a factor only that it is not a solution nor necessarily a major factor in suicide.
In other words having belief may be a good thing for those in desperate situations but it should not be considered a long term solution to suicide rates.0 -
Or the fact that it's been ingrained into you by the church that girl liking girl / boy liking boy is immoral wrong and the person is some how damaged who is like that,is from my outlook responsable for a hell of a lot more suicidesI see lack of religious belief coming up as a possible cause for suicide and I have to make a point on it.
The fear of repercussions in the afterlife may prevent some people from ending their life but it's not a valid response to suicide rates.
It's the equivalent of me telling a suicidal person if they kill themselves I'll kill their family. Sure, it may prevent them from committing suicide but it doesn't address the issue nor would anybody suggest my lack of threats are responsible for suicide rates.
On the other hand Faith may help someone get out of the suicidal mindset but I'm sure plenty of religious people have ended their own life because they believe God has abandoned them which is the only reason they can see why they are where they are. It can be a double-edged sword in this respect.
I'm sure most would agree that economic situation, family situation and personal mental health are much greater factors, and I'm not saying religion isn't or can't be a factor only that it is not a solution nor necessarily a major factor in suicide.
In other words having belief may be a good thing for those in desperate situations but it should not be considered a long term solution to suicide rates.0 -
applehunter wrote: »Mr. Stuffins you remind me of a guy that was in my class in school. Loved arguing over nothing.
What an annoying bollix he was.
In fairness, all you seem to be saying is if people had some Jesus in their lives, or didn't drink or do drugs, they wouldn't kill themselves.
You don't seem to be offering these scenario's as a means to improve the lives or relieve the issues that a person might be going through, but just as a way to stop them from committing the act itself.
I have known quite successful, very devout religious folk who had no substance abuse issues who killed themselves.
Suicide doesn't fit a model, and it certainly doesn't fit a model that will promote the personal views and beliefs of people who post here.
It would be my suggestion that people knock off the one-upmanship bull**** and start discussing the issues.
It would be my opinion that a large part of the reason for our suicide rate would be social, people don't talk about real stuff, it's all weather and football and blah di ****ing blah. People rarely have a real conversation about things that are genuinely affecting them.
Another part would be that the mental health system in Ireland is muck, plain and simple.0 -
Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.
No offence sam, but imo, that's complete bull****, and I for one am sick of hearing that line spouted as if it's meant to be some sort of reassurance. All it really is is a round about way of saying whatever you're feeling I don't understand but I'm sure it's nothing, and you'll get over it in a bit. how saying this to someone is meant to help, I really don't know.ottostreet wrote: »She is a very logical, rational person, and was an atheist for years.
Finding some form of spiritual enlightenment that her logical mind can accept has allowed her the happiness that she was missing.
wow, talk about insulting. I'm a very logical person, and I believe in god.Its amazing how much of positive mental attitude is literally just choosing to feel good though, making the decision to smile and play up the little successes. The harshest critic is usually the one looking back at you from the mirror. And yet so few people know this, let alone practise it.
I find this attitude quite patronising. it's along the lines of..cheer up!
my own opinion on this is that Ireland is a very 'ah sure..we'll get on with it' kind of place. I don't know where this attitude came from, but it's applied to everything. Look at how many people won't complain if they get ****ty service, or the wrong food order. yeah we moan to each other, but it's always punctuated with ah sure what can ya do/i'll live. How's it going - not too bad. it's like we're always wanting to say things aren't good, but we'll struggle on, and make out like we're ok.
i'm still not used to my friends asking how i'm feeling, and genuinely wanting to know. my family know i'm on anti depressants but don't ever ask how I'm doing. don't ever mention it. in fact I only get a phone call at most once a month. when I told my brother I was put on them, his first and only question was 'sure what are you doing on them'. how do you answer that? it wasn't an inquisitive sentence, it was almost accusatory.
even with my friends that are the most genuine friends i've had, I feel like it's getting too much for them. i'm unemployed now, so my moods are more unstable and so it's a daily check on how i'm doing.
people in ireland aren't taught how to deal with these things - either having a problem, or having a friend with a problem. people are uncomfortable talking about things. the advice is always 'talk to someone' but what is that going to do when, if you do, you're met with a blank expression and an awkward attempt at a response, which can either be good or bad, but either way it's uncomfortable.
i think the relation to alcohol is very significant here, because alcohol use/abuse is much more accepted here. it's still very prevalent to talk about how bladdered you were last weekend etc. even just talking about drink... if you can't go out without drinking, you're considered normal. i've recently given up drinking on nights out because of how it affects my mood for days after, and many times i've been asked why i'm not drinking. there has to be a reason! if someone has to have a beer or two every night before he can relax, it's a problem! it shouldn't be treated like it's normal.
I think that the figures may be very skewed. any of those one car collisions, i'm quite suspicious about those, though many may be someone falling asleep at the wheel either. but i think because of the stigma that still surrounds mental health problems (and lack of understanding), the older generations especially can be embarrassed to have a death in the family due to suicide. I don't even just mean the 60-80 group. even my dads generation and a little younger are this type too.0 -
I'm not sure if religion is much to do with it. You don't see too many young males going to mass or being very religious.0
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rural ireland is a depressing place to be at times and that i am sure doesnt help.
now while i am not sure of statistics, its pretty high surely compares to densily populated areas?
i know 4 people in recent times from my locality that have killed themselves, all for various reasons.0 -
Our bad weather with constantly grey skies and rain definitely plays a big part in higher rates of depression in ireland. it is proven that cold,wind,rain,snow,dark clouds etc cause people to become depressed especially in winter time kincknamed 'winter blues''.And seeing as our summers here are very like our winters except less cold irish people have winter blues all year long. but im very odd, dark skies, cloud,heavy rain,snow,ice ,wind make me very happy....i get very depressed on sunny clear days during autumn and winter time. i only like sun and heat in june,july and august and september, outside of those months the sun makes me depressed, and i hope for lots of dark cloud,and heavy rain or better yet lots of snow and ice.0
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Small genepool, weather, drinking culture, lack of opportunities, Irish people dont really do emotions well, etc.0
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Glommy bad weather is proven to affect peoples moods and cause depression,serious in some cases.
''Seasonal affective disorder (SAD), also known as winter depression or winter blues, is a mood disorder in which people who have normal mental health throughout most of the year experience depressive symptoms in the winter or, less frequently, in the summer, repeatedly, year after year. The US National Library of Medicine notes that "some people experience a serious mood change when the seasons change. They may sleep too much, have little energy, and crave sweets and starchy foods. They may also feel depressed. Though symptoms can be severe, they usually clear up."0
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