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Why is suicide so common here?

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245

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    #32
    guitarzero
    Registered Users Posts: 1,425 ✭✭✭guitarzero


    lestat21 wrote: »
    Ahhh... ya ive highlighted the one that can sometimes lead someone to depression (NOT SUICIDE) The rest of your list is either symptoms of depression or common myths about people who are suicidal.

    Religious belief doesnt have any relation to people developing depression or dying by suicide. People did commit suicide in Catholic Ireland but it wasnt talked about and sometimes not listed on the death cert. It is great that people are now open to discussing depression and suicide.

    I know many people will say that there werent as many suicides back in the day. I think you would be right to put the rise in suicides down to the stresses of modern life. The rate of suicide increased (in one Irish county) by 110% between 2008 and 2010, just as the recession hit.

    Not sure I get you. You mean there are set/strict reasons why people commit suicide? As in, they clearly stated, almost like ticking a box, as to why they committed suicide? You'll have to clear that one up for me. Thanks.


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    #33
    lestat21
    Closed Accounts Posts: 221 ✭✭lestat21


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    This is pretty amazing! As if suicide is smallpox and we need to discover some sort of key ingredient or make some sort of breakthrough and BANG..... suicide is no more.

    Cop on lads jaysus! :rolleyes:

    Not at all.. Mental illness, depression and unfortunately suicide arent going away, but by discussing these issues were might chip away at the the stigma around it.. and maybe even get men talking about there feelings!!

    Efforts wont eradicate suicide but in Ireland especially, we need to be aware and do what we can to reduce the numbers of people in this situation


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    #34
    applehunter
    Registered Users Posts: 6,023 ✭✭✭applehunter


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    This is pretty amazing! As if suicide is smallpox and we need to discover some sort of key ingredient or make some sort of breakthrough and BANG..... suicide is no more.

    Cop on lads jaysus! :rolleyes:




    Lol

    Just from my own personal experience.

    Easy to top yourself if there is nothing to live for.


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    #35
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,153 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    crash davis wrote: »
    Well, we need to speak about it more than you're willing to, otherwise it will continue to take young lives from us. You sound like a person who wants to sit back and watch the fireworks rather than discuss and analyse the ramifications for us as individuals and as a nation.

    You got that from one post? If you've a qualificiation in psychology i'd ask for my money back!
    lestat21 wrote: »
    Not at all.. Mental illness, depression and unfortunately suicide arent going away, but by discussing these issues were might chip away at the the stigma around it.. and maybe even get men talking about there feelings!!

    Efforts wont eradicate suicide but in Ireland especially, we need to be aware and do what we can to reduce the numbers of people in this situation

    I agree. Someone on the thread said something like "We need to find the issues and eradicate them".

    Mental issues are much much more complicated than anyone who has never suffered them could possibly understand. Peoples' lives are far more complicated than people see from the outside too.

    people seems to have this stupid mentality when it comes to suicide. Someone over on the Soccer forum said last week that Gary Speed had no reason to commit suicide because he had a good job and plenty of money.

    Life is easy eh?


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    #36
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,153 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    applehunter wrote: »
    Just from my own personal experience.

    Easy to top yourself if there is nothing to live for.

    What are you on about? The whole point of religion is to be rewarded after you die. Why would that be something to live for?


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    #37
    lestat21
    Closed Accounts Posts: 221 ✭✭lestat21


    guitarzero wrote: »
    Not sure I get you. You mean there are set/strict reasons why people commit suicide? As in, they clearly stated, almost like ticking a box, as to why they committed suicide? You'll have to clear that one up for me. Thanks.

    No I meant that symptoms of depression dont lead to suicide!! Theyre a sign of an illness but depending on the circumstances that person may never have suicidal thoughts or if they do they might discuss it with someone and get help before its too late.

    Also the myths about suicide, like religious people wouldnt consider it or people who threaten suicide are just looking for attention, are really dangerous. They can discourage people from talking about their problems and influence the way we view people with depression. There really has to be more education of young people about these issues because most people dont understand or even know much about depression or suicide.


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    #38
    busyliving
    Registered Users Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭busyliving


    I remember reading something a while back, that said weather had an effect on suicide rates, such countries as Norway, Finland, Sweden, Scotland, Canada, Ireland had higher suicide rates and when everything thing was taken into account, the weather was the most common factor amongst these nations...

    Also in this same article, it mention Seattle having one of the highest rates in the US...

    Now the article is old enough now, but it seemed from the research that had been carried out, and the information they had all seemed to suggest that weather had a major factor in suicide rates


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    #39
    crash davis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 123 ✭✭crash davis


    Sorry Stuffins, we're on the same wavelength. Half asleep here.


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    #40
    guitarzero
    Registered Users Posts: 1,425 ✭✭✭guitarzero


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    This is pretty amazing! As if suicide is smallpox and we need to discover some sort of key ingredient or make some sort of breakthrough and BANG..... suicide is no more.

    Cop on lads jaysus! :rolleyes:




    Lol

    What a lazy comment. Any attempt to solve something is progress whether by omission or understanding. I dont think anyone sees depression like smallpox but the reality is that its an issue so lets tackle it best we can.

    The roll of god can be a huge thing for some people. I'm tempted to get a warning over you. Open your eyes.


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    #41
    applehunter
    Registered Users Posts: 6,023 ✭✭✭applehunter


    Gary Speed .....

    Not many fit his description from where I live.

    5 I know of around the 20-27 years age group took their own life in my area this year. All male. I would have put 4/5 down as drink/drugs users.

    Was that a symptom of something worse. I don't know. But it played a part I'm sure.


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    #42
    Red21
    Closed Accounts Posts: 594 ✭✭✭Red21


    I think Ireland has a competiveness thats unnecessary, this need to be seen succesful financially seems stronger here.
    One area I think driving this competiveness is the leaving cert where getting high marks to impress friends neighbours and family seems to be more important than finding a career you'll enjoy.
    This whole property boom thing with people buying extra houses etc was more competing, all this adds greatly to the stress people are under.


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    #43
    guitarzero
    Registered Users Posts: 1,425 ✭✭✭guitarzero


    lestat21 wrote: »
    No I meant that symptoms of depression dont lead to suicide!! Theyre a sign of an illness but depending on the circumstances that person may never have suicidal thoughts or if they do they might discuss it with someone and get help before its too late.

    Also the myths about suicide, like religious people wouldnt consider it or people who threaten suicide are just looking for attention, are really dangerous. They can discourage people from talking about their problems and influence the way we view people with depression. There really has to be more education of young people about these issues because most people dont understand or even know much about depression or suicide.

    But if depression can lead to suicide, surely the symptoms of depression are in some way related to suicide?


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    #44
    applehunter
    Registered Users Posts: 6,023 ✭✭✭applehunter


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    What are you on about? The whole point of religion is to be rewarded after you die. Why would that be something to live for?

    Ok to phrase it another way.

    "Why not top myself cause there are no consequences."


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    #45
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,153 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    guitarzero wrote: »
    What a lazy comment. Any attempt to solve something is progress whether by omission or understanding.

    Yes and it seems some people don't understand at all. Every single person who commits suicide has a very complicated web of reasons for doing so. What's lazy is saying "Oh, he was a drinker. Must've been the drink"
    I dont think anyone sees depression like smallpox but the reality is that its an issue so lets tackle it best we can.

    The language of the following quote suggests to me that this poster thinks that there are a set of issues common to suicide and they must be stopped.... like Smallpox

    ottostreet wrote: »
    Evidence smevidence. People are killing themselves. Any creature with self-awareness should have no reason to do so, without circumstances affecting decision making. What are those circumstances? We should be trying to find it and eradicate it. End of.
    The roll of god can be a huge thing for some people. I'm tempted to get a warning over you. Open your eyes.

    A warning? I'm not sure what you mean by this?


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    #46
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    You should provide some evidence that we have a higher suicide rate than the average if that is the claim you're making.

    According to wiki there are 34 countries with higher suicide rates.

    Any suicide is a tragedy but I thought we should get a little international perspective - we're nowhere near the worst.
    The stats are ridiculously unreliable though, some judges seem to really not want to rule suicide. Apparently a shotgun to the head is misadventure, not suicide. On a thread a while back here someone posted yeatly county-by-county stats for suicide. I think it was Leitrim alternated between 0 and around a dozen per yer. It would be statistically amazing if that were accurate. More logical would be to take the normal amount as a baseline rate at least.


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    #47
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    Red21 wrote: »
    I think Ireland has a competiveness thats unnecessary, this need to be seen succesful financially seems stronger here.
    One area I think driving this competiveness is the leaving cert where getting high marks to impress friends neighbours and family seems to be more important than finding a career you'll enjoy.
    This whole property boom thing with people buying extra houses etc was more competing, all this adds greatly to the stress people are under.

    Funny, usually boards is full of people saying that being seen to be financially successful is seen as a bad thing.




    Thinking of the suicides close enough to me (that I can take a decent guess at the final causes) the main factors were family circumstances, being tortured by some scumbags and two that followed that one within a week.


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    #48
    pappyodaniel
    Registered Users Posts: 5,720 ✭✭✭pappyodaniel


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    wiki

    Where's this São Tomé & Príncipe and why is it the only country in the world with a higher suicide rate for females over males?


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    #49
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,153 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    applehunter wrote: »
    Ok to phrase it another way.

    "Why not top myself cause there are no consequences."

    this is a very very good example of the ridiculously simplistic attitude from some people as far as suicide is concerned.

    What a mind-boggling thing to say!


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    #50
    guitarzero
    Registered Users Posts: 1,425 ✭✭✭guitarzero


    MrStuffins wrote: »






    A warning? I'm not sure what you mean by this?

    A slap on the wrist from the mods for resorting to foul language and insults.


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    #51
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,153 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    guitarzero wrote: »
    A slap on the wrist from the mods for resorting to foul language and insults.

    Foul language and insults?

    Where? Can you show me where I used foul language and/or insulted anyone in the thread?


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    #52
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    Also on the stats, wili has Ireland at 11.6 per 100k for 2009. Last year I know of 9 in Dundalk (I'm not even that plugged in) which is a rate of about 27. I haven't heard of it being a suicide hotspot.


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    #53
    ottostreet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,987 ✭✭✭ottostreet


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    Is that not presuming that every suicide is an act of insanity? If we conclude that every suicide is an act of insanity should a person then be detained to prevent suicide?

    What about people who are terminally ill and decide to take their lives? Are they insane?

    Well, in a way, it is. It is an act which, put bluntly, is a self aware animal that has been mentally tortured (either through its own thought process or the circumstances of its existence) to the point where it feels self-termination is the only cure.

    If you think I am being too cold about it, it is something that I am lucky has not deprived my family and myself of my mother. She has suffered from depression for a few years now and has tried to kill herself. She is a very logical, rational person, and was an atheist for years. She said that on bad days, she wakes up and its like a massive black hole has enveloped her mind and is writhing around, kicking and screaming constantly in her head, constantly telling her that the only end to the mental torture, is through physical death.

    She has undergone treatment and continues to do so, and she is much better now. She has rediscovered some old hobbies, but...oddly, has become a fully fledged Quaker. Finding some form of spiritual enlightenment that her logical mind can accept has allowed her the happiness that she was missing. A poster above mentioned a lack of God/religion, and I can't disagree with that right now. I'm 23, and maybe because my own mortality has not been brought into focus in my own head, my atheism has not made me unhappy yet. I don't understand suicide, I don't understand mental illness, despite seeing it first hand. I can't understand how a logical mind can crack. It makes it very difficult for me to sympathise with someone who is depressed, as logically, I feel that a change in circumstances can rectify the situation.


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    #54
    crash davis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 123 ✭✭crash davis


    You didn't, you're just a sarcastic git sometimes!


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    #55
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,418 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    TeddyTedson wrote: »
    I like that line

    It's the harsh reality of suicide, families are left with the devastation of not knowing why and blaming themselves.
    Unfortunately the person who commits suicide thinks it's the best thing for the family but it's not. No one knows what goes through the mind of someone who makes this choice.
    I don't think depression always plays a part in suicide, there are other factors.


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    #56
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    applehunter wrote: »
    Gary Speed .....

    Not many fit his description from where I live.

    5 I know of around the 20-27 years age group took their own life in my area this year. All male. I would have put 4/5 down as drink/drugs users.

    Was that a symptom of something worse. I don't know. But it played a part I'm sure.

    In my personal and second-hand experience drink/drugs are usually a symptom of underlying problems more than they're the cause.


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    #57
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,153 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    crash davis wrote: »
    You didn't, you're just a sarcastic git sometimes!

    Now THAT'S an insult!

    Sarcasm isn't against the forum charter.

    Also, I wasn't being sarcastic at all in this thread.


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    #58
    lestat21
    Closed Accounts Posts: 221 ✭✭lestat21


    guitarzero wrote: »
    But if depression can lead to suicide, surely the symptoms of depression are in some way related to suicide?

    In a way, but not everyone who suffers from depression is at risk of suicide. Everyone on this site seems to think that one leads to another. Clinical depression is one of many factors that might result in someone taking their own life.

    In my role as a volunteer, I have heard many distressing stories about suicide and so often, I hear people say we had no idea, they never talked to us about it. Speaking to lads who have survived depression themselves, they had a support there, someone to talk to and someone who listened. That can really make the difference!


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    #59
    applehunter
    Registered Users Posts: 6,023 ✭✭✭applehunter


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    this is a very very good example of the ridiculously simplistic attitude from some people as far as suicide is concerned.

    What a mind-boggling thing to say!

    So what is your opinion?

    I was just giving my thoughts. I'm not an expert.

    You've said its more complex and you have laughed down my suggestions so what is in you opinion that has made suicide so common here?


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    #60
    guitarzero
    Registered Users Posts: 1,425 ✭✭✭guitarzero


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    Foul language and insults?

    Where? Can you show me where I used foul language and/or insulted anyone in the thread?

    No, I was saying I wouldnt want to fall into throwing foul language at you for such a half witted comment as you roll your eyes and throw around smallpox analogies.


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    #61
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,153 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    amacachi wrote: »
    In my personal and second-hand experience drink/drugs are usually a symptom of underlying problems more than they're the cause.

    Great point.

    This is part of what i've been trying to say. Rather than trying to figure out and understand the reasons why this person was drinking or on drugs, it must've been the simple case of the person being care-free, started usng drugs and then commited suicide!


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