Why is suicide so common here?

TeddyTedson

The number of suicides here is obviously a huge problem, but what do people think some of the reasons are?
Off hand I can personally think of around five cases, some of the people I only knew to see and others I would have known well. I only know one person who has died in a car crash to put my own perspective on it, and I didn't know them well, I know this is just my personal experience and has no relevance in the over all scheme of things.
The country being so dark must play a part. I know that they say suicide rates are highest near Christmas and that dark countries generally have a higher rate. But I think a lot of the old soviet Russian countries have very high rates due to the unique social structure in them which must skewer the statistics a bit. I'm only pointing that out because I think the situation here is drastically different, but I could well be wrong.
I think Alcohol must play a massive part. A lot of people take their own life after drinking a lot. But I imagine many of these people have something else initially at the root of the cause.
There are things like peoples sexuality/financial situation/relationships/stress and everything in between which may factor into it, but these situations aren't exclusive to people in Ireland. Could it be a fear of disappointing other people?
I always sort of feel females are over looked when it comes to talking about suicide in Ireland but I'll have to generalise here a bit so forgive me. Young Irish men are at the highest risk, and it seems in my opinion to be because they are incapable of dealing with the pressure, of what ever the underlying reason(s) are. I realise that's perhaps an overly simplistic statement to make, on such a sensitive subject, so excuse me for that.
I know its a typically Irish thing to say now and suggest that perhaps schools could find a way to help young people cope, and obviously it will be society as a whole that will have to try and resolve the issue. But thinking back to primary school, it's more like a small community when compared to secondary school, from the schools I went to anyway. I noticed people tend to stick to "their own kind" in a way of sorts in secondary school. I could be completely off the mark about this, but I think it sort of builds up walls so to speak that people carry with them for a long time in many ways.
I've a lot of personal guess work thrown into my post there so I apologise if I've said anything factually way off the mark. I'd be interested to hear the thoughts of other people on the matter.

cofy

TeddyTedson wrote: »

The number of suicides here is obviously a huge problem, but what do people think some of the reasons are?

I think Alcohol must play a massive part. A lot of people take their own life after drinking a lot. But I imagine many of these people have something else initially at the root of the cause.
.

At the inquest in my brothers case there was no alcohol or other substances in his system. It's a relief in one way, but thinking of him doing that to himself in his full senses is distressing.

I do feel that relationships play a bigger role than alcohol. I don't have any statistics to back this up, it's just my gut feeling.

You are right, though, to question what can we do to prevent this from happening, no matter how simplistic you feel your opinion is, we need to start somewhere.

Chuck Stone

You should provide some evidence that we have a higher suicide rate than the average if that is the claim you're making.

According to wiki there are 34 countries with higher suicide rates.

Any suicide is a tragedy but I thought we should get a little international perspective - we're nowhere near the worst.

ottostreet

Evidence smevidence. People are killing themselves. Any creature with self-awareness should have no reason to do so, without circumstances affecting decision making. What are those circumstances? We should be trying to find it and eradicate it. End of.

Deus Ex Machina

I quite honestly believe that life is completely pointless. I'd make my own quietus if I weren't enjoying it so much and if my prospects for further enjoyment appeared to be poor.

It's a silly little game is all it is, wanting to end it if it's going badly seems like a fine idea to me.

policarp

That's the question we'd all love the answer to.

Snowie

theres nothing to do

TeddyTedson

Chuck Stone wrote: »

You should provide some evidence that we have a higher suicide rate than the average if that is the claim you're making.

According to wiki there are 34 countries with higher suicide rates.

Any suicide is a tragedy but I thought we should get a little international perspective - we're nowhere near the worst.

I'm saying it's a huge problem, anyway, there's 107 counties on that list and we're 34!! In the top third of the list!
Also, there are cases where people die and it's not put down officially as suicide.

EKClarke

ottostreet wrote: »

Evidence smevidence. People are killing themselves. Any creature with self-awareness should have no reason to do so, without circumstances affecting decision making. What are those circumstances? We should be trying to find it and eradicate it. End of.

It's not that easy. People are meant to feel pain. Some people are born with predispositions to anxiety. PREDISPOSITIONS like. They're already behind everyone else and find it a lot more difficult to cope. Even if there was little reason to be depressed, if we lived in a utopia, people would still find reasons as they judge what happiness they have against what they haven't or could have.

Our culture though could help about being more open about mental health issues but we're too entrapped in shame and guilt.

CamperMan

Glaxo and there drug Seroxat / Paxil.. that can send people over the edge.. my wife was on this evil $hit and she attempted it many times.. http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/antidepressant-seroxat-linked-to-suicide-attempts-among-adults-503873.html

thankfully, she has fully recovered and has been clear of these drugs for over 7 years now.

guitarzero

I could think of a few reasons for suicide.

- Feeling unloved
- Feeling inadequate
- Having no beliefs
- The struggle of working and striving outweighing its reward.
- Incapable of feeling happiness is a good one.
- Having personality disorders such as aspergers, BPD, etc
- Feeling you've gone beyond your peak in life
- Not being liked by the opposite sex
- Being alone all the time due to not relating to people.
- Not having an interest in sex
- Losing someone so dear to you and having no one else in your life
- Apathy
- Having no creativity
- Being boring/bored
- No religious belief to judge your act (Im sure many in the past would have thrown in the towel long ago had they the same lack of belief as folks today)

Seriously, I could go on but I wont. What I find particularly interesting is people who cant understand suicide.

Brendog

Ireland is a very depressing place.

Grey skies and rain almost constantly.
Theres very few things to do that'll get you in a good mood.
Constant bad news on TV, radio, internet etc.
The Irish male is programmed to not talk about his feelings and keep everything bottled up.

lestat21

Ireland has over 500 suicides a year bt like EClarke said many deaths are not listed as suicide because of the circumstances. Some professionals suggest the real number could be as high as 800.

Ireland may be much higher if you compare it with other countries on that list that have much bigger populations or maybe that has already been taken into account.

Every case is different.. but I believe it is a combination of many factors that are personal and distressing to the individual. Many of the commonly given answers have been discussed here already. BUT noone has mentioned the stigma associated with depression, the inability of people to talk about their problems with family or professionals and the lack of training in suicide prevention.. Just some thoughts.

For anyone who is feeling suicidal or in distress 1Life 1800 247 100 offers a 24hour service.

Chuck Stone

ottostreet wrote: »

Evidence smevidence. People are killing themselves. Any creature with self-awareness should have no reason to do so, without circumstances affecting decision making. What are those circumstances? We should be trying to find it and eradicate it. End of.

Is that not presuming that every suicide is an act of insanity? If we conclude that every suicide is an act of insanity should a person then be detained to prevent suicide?

What about people who are terminally ill and decide to take their lives? Are they insane?

lawhec

The table on wiki is a bit unreliable as those figures are not calculated over a common time period, one result is from 1978!

It does seem to show a colleration though that parts of the world with the highest suicide rates include countries that form an arc around the Baltic Sea (with the notable exception of Germany), quite a lot of Eastern Europe and Far East Asia. However I do wonder if the countries that are lower down the list are accurately reporting their suicide rates.

the groutch

because of the increasing popularity of the After Hours forum

EKClarke

guitarzero wrote: »

I could think of a few reasons for suicide.

- Feeling unloved
- Feeling inadequate
- Having no beliefs
- The struggle of working and striving outweighing its reward.
- Incapable of feeling happiness is a good one.
- Having personality disorders such as aspergers, BPD, etc
- Feeling you've gone beyond your peak in life
- Not being liked by the opposite sex
- Being alone all the time due to not relating to people.
- Not having an interest in sex
- Losing someone so dear to you and having no one else in your life
- Apathy
- Having no creativity
- Being boring/bored
- No religious belief to judge your act (Im sure many in the past would have thrown in the towel long ago had they the same lack of belief as folks today)

They all apply to me.

Seriously, I could go on but I wont. What I find particularly interesting is people who cant understand suicide. A little bit macabre aren't you.

Particularly the working bit. Don't see the point in the whole modern concept of working till your 66-67 all through the best years of your life to earn enough to get by so you can buy the ****e which doesn't have to be so expensive or you don't need while millions are homeless and in poverty and are sexually abused throughout the world. And then you die.

Red21

Something doesn't seem right about that table there maybe more to it than meets the eye, going by it, you are twice as likely to take your own life if you're born in france or belgium as opposed to germany.
My O.h is from france and she claims is not such a big issue there, she doesn't know a single person meanwhile I knew 4 quiet well and knew of many more and we are 17 places below them

ILikeBananas

I heard a quote before about the two things that Irish people notice when they first go to America:

1. How big the country is
2. How the people there seem to want to tell you everything about themselves

The second point is the interesting one in this context. Irish people are renowned for having "the gift of the gab" but a lot of it is comical nonsense. We make jokes and we moan about things but we rarely touch on anything beneath the surface.

A lot of young males would be afraid of saying anything about their feelings for the simple reason that they would leave themselves open to a slagging. You can't open up without showing vunerability and unfortunately a lot of people see vunerability as being the same as weakness.

This mindset is ingrained in us from an early age and so when things go wrong, as they naturally do, some people do not know how to deal with it in a healthy manner. If you block up a kettle and boil it, it'll explode. Human's aren't that much different.

crash davis

Chuck Stone wrote: »

You should provide some evidence that we have a higher suicide rate than the average if that is the claim you're making.

According to wiki there are 34 countries with higher suicide rates.

Any suicide is a tragedy but I thought we should get a little international perspective - we're nowhere near the worst.

What I find so interesting from that wiki page is that the majority of countries at the bottom of that list have living standards or a GNP that are worse than our own. I think Capitalism has alot to answer for. Seriously.

TeddyTedson

lestat21 wrote: »

Ireland has over 500 suicides a year bt like EClarke said many deaths are not listed as suicide because of the circumstances. Some professionals suggest the real number could be as high as 800.

Ireland may be much higher if you compare it with other countries on that list that have much bigger populations or maybe that has already been taken into account.

Every case is different.. but I believe it is a combination of many factors that are personal and distressing to the individual. Many of the commonly given answers have been discussed here already. BUT noone has mentioned the stigma associated with depression, the inability of people to talk about their problems with family or professionals and the lack of training in suicide prevention.. Just some thoughts.

For anyone who is feeling suicidal or in distress 1Life 1800 247 100 offers a 24hour service.

Americans are very open about seeing psychiatrists or psychologists, here there is probably some stigma still attacked to it.

I also remember hearing as a kid of a woman who lived near me who had "gone a bit crazy". People in the area tried to avoid her because she could getting into a shouting match with you in public over the smallest of things. Society shied away from her because she had mental illness.
In a family people would have been able to give her some of the support she needed. Stigma there.

applehunter

3 main things for me

1. Alcohol misuse
2. Drug misuse
3. Reduced roll of God/religion in peoples lives.

lestat21

guitarzero wrote: »

I could think of a few reasons for suicide.

- Feeling unloved
- Feeling inadequate
- Having no beliefs
- The struggle of working and striving outweighing its reward.
- Incapable of feeling happiness is a good one.
- Having personality disorders such as aspergers, BPD, etc
- Feeling you've gone beyond your peak in life
- Not being liked by the opposite sex
- Being alone all the time due to not relating to people.
- Not having an interest in sex
- Losing someone so dear to you and having no one else in your life
- Apathy
- Having no creativity
- Being boring/bored
- No religious belief to judge your act (Im sure many in the past would have thrown in the towel long ago had they the same lack of belief as folks today)

Seriously, I could go on but I wont. What I find particularly interesting is people who cant understand suicide.

Ahhh... ya ive highlighted the one that can sometimes lead someone to depression (NOT SUICIDE) The rest of your list is either symptoms of depression or common myths about people who are suicidal.

Religious belief doesnt have any relation to people developing depression or dying by suicide. People did commit suicide in Catholic Ireland but it wasnt talked about and sometimes not listed on the death cert. It is great that people are now open to discussing depression and suicide.

I know many people will say that there werent as many suicides back in the day. I think you would be right to put the rise in suicides down to the stresses of modern life. The rate of suicide increased (in one Irish county) by 110% between 2008 and 2010, just as the recession hit.

TeddyTedson

ILikeBananas wrote: »

I heard a quote before about the two things that Irish people notice when they first go to America:

1. How big the country is
2. How the people there seem to want to tell you everything about themselves

The second point is the interesting one in this context. Irish people are renowned for having "the gift of the gab" but a lot of it is comical nonsense. We make jokes and we moan about things but we rarely touch on anything beneath the surface.

A lot of young males would be afraid of saying anything about their feelings for the simple reason that they would leave themselves open to a slagging. You can't open up without showing vunerability and unfortunately a lot of people see vunerability as being the same as weakness.

This mindset is ingrained in us from an early age and so when things go wrong, as they naturally do, some people do not know how to deal with it in a healthy manner. If you block up a kettle and boil it, it'll explode. Human's aren't that much different.

Great point.
I wanted to add more to your point but I've taken my tablet and can't really follow.

crash davis

TeddyTedson wrote: »

Americans are very open about seeing psychiatrists or psychologists, here there is probably some stigma still attacked to it.

I also remember hearing as a kid of a woman who lived near me who had "gone a bit crazy". People in the area tried to avoid her because she could getting into a shouting match with you in public over the smallest of things. Society shied away from her because she had mental illness.
In a family people would have been able to give her some of the support she needed. Stigma there.

Some Americans are, but they still kill each other with firearms. You think Americans tell their friends they're seeing counsellors? Not a chance.

TeddyTedson

I think I saw a show before about these people who came into schools and broke down social barriers between different peer groups. Many of them could related to each others problems and they became better friends because they could feel empathy for each other.

hondasam

Suicide is devastating for any family to cope with, there are no answers. Suicide is more common in young men.
There is help out there for anyone that needs it. Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.


http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=suicide%20in%20ireland%20statistics&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CEgQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nosp.ie%2F&ei=kyjgTuTTFcWnhAfImcCcBQ&usg=AFQjCNFdMtp5h2ao1Xk9ubHVA84glvXZSw

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=suicide%20in%20ireland%202011&source=web&cd=5&sqi=2&ved=0CFYQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnewspaper%2Fireland%2F2011%2F0907%2F1224303638597.html&ei=3CngTqT8BorChAfptqiRBQ&usg=AFQjCNFNnyLuKiR8M0zcvmve_l-HuW8iug

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=suicide%20in%20ireland%20primet&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CEwQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.independent.ie%2Fnational-news%2Fthe-bottom-line-is-that-eight-out-of-ten-suicides-are-males-2307282.html&ei=FCrgTsLlJ8u4hAeV5NyKBQ&usg=AFQjCNH24hgiq8a60kl8h02Seu40eVaR_Q

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=suicide%20in%20ireland%20suicidiology&source=web&cd=1&sqi=2&ved=0CEAQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ias.ie%2F&ei=4irgTqWtKsOzhAfU_tz_BA&usg=AFQjCNFb2vI-ja6BCoHaoLv3yh2kJ1rj3g

MrStuffins

This is pretty amazing! As if suicide is smallpox and we need to discover some sort of key ingredient or make some sort of breakthrough and BANG..... suicide is no more.

Cop on lads jaysus! :rolleyes:

applehunter wrote: »

3 main things for me

1. Alcohol misuse
2. Drug misuse
3. Reduced roll of God/religion in peoples lives.

Lol

TeddyTedson

hondasam wrote: »

Suicide is devastating for any family to cope with, there are no answers. Suicide is more common in young men.
There is help out there for anyone that needs it. Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.


http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=suicide%20in%20ireland%20statistics&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CEgQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nosp.ie%2F&ei=kyjgTuTTFcWnhAfImcCcBQ&usg=AFQjCNFdMtp5h2ao1Xk9ubHVA84glvXZSw

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=suicide%20in%20ireland%202011&source=web&cd=5&sqi=2&ved=0CFYQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnewspaper%2Fireland%2F2011%2F0907%2F1224303638597.html&ei=3CngTqT8BorChAfptqiRBQ&usg=AFQjCNFNnyLuKiR8M0zcvmve_l-HuW8iug

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=suicide%20in%20ireland%20primet&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CEwQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.independent.ie%2Fnational-news%2Fthe-bottom-line-is-that-eight-out-of-ten-suicides-are-males-2307282.html&ei=FCrgTsLlJ8u4hAeV5NyKBQ&usg=AFQjCNH24hgiq8a60kl8h02Seu40eVaR_Q

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=suicide%20in%20ireland%20suicidiology&source=web&cd=1&sqi=2&ved=0CEAQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ias.ie%2F&ei=4irgTqWtKsOzhAfU_tz_BA&usg=AFQjCNFb2vI-ja6BCoHaoLv3yh2kJ1rj3g

I like that line

crash davis

MrStuffins wrote: »

This is pretty amazing! As if suicide is smallpox and we need to discover some sort of key ingredient or make some sort of breakthrough and BANG..... suicide is no more.

Cop on lads jaysus! :rolleyes:

Well, we need to speak about it more than you're willing to, otherwise it will continue to take young lives from us. You sound like a person who wants to sit back and watch the fireworks rather than discuss and analyse the ramifications for us as individuals and as a nation.

Chuck Stone

MrStuffins wrote: »

Lol

Indeed.

You could make an even more convincing argument that increasing atheism helps to prevent suicide because there is no escape route to 'the happy place'.