Why is suicide so common here?

Cicero

Depression is your body's way of saying...hey..."time out here...."....."you need to listen to what I'm saying...or else...".....sometimes people listen .....and sometimes they don't ....not listening can cause issues....that can lead to greater trouble in the future..

..I think that suicide is the ultimate way of saying....I'm not going to listen to what my body and mind is telling me anymore...Feic it...I'm going to do it my way....


...I hope that those reading this thread will listen to their bodies and minds and try and hear what they are saying to you...especially if they are feeling down....and seek professional help and assistance....

...there is a myriad of ways to gain solace...and peace....what works for some may not work for others but theres a lot of help out there...

Take care all and have a safe Christmas 2011.:)

tayto lover

A senior Garda said recently at a meeting that he suspected that many of the single vehicle fatal car accidents were actually suicides. People hitting the only tree or wall on a straight road in perfect conditions.
Probably made to look accidental so that parents or loved ones benefit from insurance claims. I don't think they pay out on suicides.

token56

If someone is really considering depression then I dont think something like the weather, even religion or lack of etc is going to be most significant contributing factor. There are other underlying factors in a lot of cases a lot of the time due to anxiety or something causing anxiety in a persons life that need to be treated and other things such as drink or whatever exaggerate the feelings.

But the problem in Ireland is two fold in my opinion, the first is the culture, particularly among young men and the second is the infrastructure to support those you need help. Regarding culture it just not normal in a lot of social groups to talk about feelings especially things that get you so down you feel depressed. In young men a lot is often due just to embarrassment and feeling afraid to talk to a friend I know it was like that for me. But there is still that culture of ah things will be ok you'll get over it, and such are feelings brushed away if someone does try talk about it. This could be someone making the first effort to try and talk and this sort of response will stop them trying again. I've seen this in groups of teens and with parents talking to teens, I've even had doctors with this sort of attitude. Ireland needs a bit of culture change so that if someone feels like they have a problem and want to be able to talk about it with someone they trust they can.

Regarding infrastructure well its simply terrible in my opinion. If someone does try seek help regarding a problem the first step if often medication from the GP and that's it, the symptoms have been treated but whatever the underlying cause is hasn't.

The HSE's website even says

Most people with mental health problems can be treated by their GP, and are referred to HSE Mental Health Services when necessary.

http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/Find_a_Service/Mental_Health_Services/

And the mental health services on offer, well they are severally lacking in my opinion. While I'm sure there are a lot people who care involved with those services my experience was that of seeing doctors who were there only because its was part of doing their training and who cared very little. The level of support you get particularly as a young adult in my opinion is very little. In my case a visit would amount to a 5 min chat regarding if medication is working and a few small questions about how I am, but it seemed to be different for those older than me. Now you might think well there is your perfect opportunity to talk but you have to understand that if you are in a depressed frame of mind its often not easy to talk about whatever is bothering you. Especially if you feel you only being an inconvenience to the person there. Maybe mine was a select experience but I doubt it. The problem with this is that people who suffer from issues especially due to anxiety need to learn what's causing it and methods to cope with it when such issues arise. Medication doesn't do this and in my experience the mental health services available don't either. For me it wasn't until I sought out private counselling that I was able to learn these things.

There are a lot of areas which Ireland needs to improve on regarding mental health and I hope it happens soon.

amacachi

tayto lover wrote: »

A senior Garda said recently at a meeting that he suspected that many of the single vehicle fatal car accidents were actually suicides. People hitting the only tree or wall on a straight road in perfect conditions.
Probably made to look accidental so that parents or loved ones benefit from insurance claims. I don't think they pay out on suicides.

I still haven't been able to get verification but I heard that it's something along the lines that they won't pay out if the motivation for it was financial.
It all seems pretty all over the place. As I said, I know of one obvious case that wasn't ruled as a suicide, may have been the judge trying to do a favour to the family, doesn't help the accuracy of the stats though.

Warper

tayto lover wrote: »

A senior Garda said recently at a meeting that he suspected that many of the single vehicle fatal car accidents were actually suicides. People hitting the only tree or wall on a straight road in perfect conditions.
Probably made to look accidental so that parents or loved ones benefit from insurance claims. I don't think they pay out on suicides.

More like made to look like an accident and not the horror of suicide.

amacachi

token56 wrote: »

Regarding infrastructure well its simply terrible in my opinion. If someone does try seek help regarding a problem the first step if often medication from the GP and that's it, the symptoms have been treated but whatever the underlying cause is hasn't.

I know one case where someone checked themselves into a facility and after one night was told they couldn't do much for him and he'd have to go down another avenue. Think it was less than a week later he killed himself. Wonderful stuff.

cocoshovel

Is there anywhere I can find up to date suicide statistics for lets say 2010 in Ireland?
also as Im sure it has already been said in this thread, a large amount of suicide are put down as "accidental death" or some other bull**** by someone in denial (probably). Makes me annoyed. I think I once read a few years back that it was about 300 people a year but Im not sure where I got that from.
If it is 300 people then thats a lot less than I would have expected, maybe it just seems so high due to our low population?

amacachi

cocoshovel wrote: »

Is there anywhere I can find up to date suicide statistics for lets say 2010 in Ireland?
also as Im sure it has already been said in this thread, a large amount of suicide are put down as "accidental death" or some other bull**** by someone in denial (probably). Makes me annoyed. I think I once read a few years back that it was about 300 people a year but Im not sure where I got that from.
If it is 300 people then thats a lot less than I would have expected, maybe it just seems so high due to our low population?

The majority of possible suicides would be unexpected deaths so require an inquest. The judges don't seem averse to ruling obvious suicides as something else.

token56

amacachi wrote: »

I know one case where someone checked themselves into a facility and after one night was told they couldn't do much for him and he'd have to go down another avenue. Think it was less than a week later he killed himself. Wonderful stuff.

Well in a practically different more selfish life compared to now I once took an overdose of medication I was on and was brought to A&E. The doctors had to actually fight with the on call psychiatrist to get him to come in to see me. They were preparing to send me home if he didn't so I'd well believe it.

stupidusername

token56 wrote: »

Well in a practically different more selfish life compared to now I once took an overdose of medication I was on and was brought to A&E. The doctors had to actually fight with the on call psychiatrist to get him to come in to see me. They were preparing to send me home if he didn't so I'd well believe it.

jesus. what the ****

token56

stupidusername wrote: »

jesus. what the ****

I dont exactly know what was going on that they had to fight to get him in, but the nurses filled a complaint against the doctor and asked me to do the same.

amacachi

stupidusername wrote: »

jesus. what the ****

Cousin of mine self-harmed a lot in his teens. My mother met him in town once and called an ambulance because his arms were bleeding so much. Didn't get so much as a referral. Fast-forward 20 years and he killed himself.

stupidusername

token56 wrote: »

I dont exactly know what was going on that they had to fight to get him in, but the nurses filled a complaint against the doctor and asked me to do the same.

well at least that says it's not acceptable.

amacachi wrote: »

Cousin of mine self-harmed a lot in his teens. My mother met him in town once and called an ambulance because his arms were bleeding so much. Didn't get so much as a referral. Fast-forward 20 years and he killed himself.

i'd like to think that it was something to do with the time that it happened. i'd like some hope that 20 years later the same wouldn't happen. i've no idea.

bb1234567

tayto lover wrote: »

A senior Garda said recently at a meeting that he suspected that many of the single vehicle fatal car accidents were actually suicides. People hitting the only tree or wall on a straight road in perfect conditions.
Probably made to look accidental so that parents or loved ones benefit from insurance claims. I don't think they pay out on suicides.

A teacher of mine was just talking about that the other day, we were actually talking about firemen and how hard their jobs are..he said his heart went out to them when they had to recover the bodies from a crash he himself witnessed one day on a motorway. At first it was thought to be an accident but turns out it was a couple who chose to commit suicide together. weather conditions were fine so couldnt have been that, and they drove full speed into the back of a parked truck and the car was going so fast that the car went in under the truck (between wheels and body of truck) and they were decapitated.very sad..god imagine being the one to have to remove the bodies..we were having a debate about whether firmen should earn higher wages because of some of the gruesome stuff they must do when surgeone do the same sort of stuff(but less physical but still saving lives) and are paid 10 times what a fireman is.

token56

I do just want to say that I do know there are a lot of good people working in the mental health service but they are limited in what they can do by the infrastructure they have to work within. There also a lot of bad ones too and in area like this where it can be the difference between life and death its not ok.

amacachi

stupidusername wrote: »

i'd like to think that it was something to do with the time that it happened. i'd like some hope that 20 years later the same wouldn't happen. i've no idea.

Same here, others' recent experience doesn't suggest it's changed an awful lot alas.

DEFTLEFTHAND

The weather and daylight hours in winter could be linked as the Scandinavian countries have high rates, particularly Finland.

In Ireland I feel there is still a stigma attached to mental health (especially with men both young and old) and people don't feel comfortable laying their true feelings bare as they fear being mocked or looked upon as being a bit odd or loopy.

cocoshovel

Am I able to just walk into a garda station or council office and request information on suicide statistics in a certain region or area? Bit off topic I know but it does interest me.

tayto lover

cocoshovel wrote: »

Am I able to just walk into a garda station or council office and request information on suicide statistics in a certain region or area? Bit off topic I know but it does interest me.

I don't think you can do that. Below is the figure for 2010 in Ireland.

Central Statistics Office provisional data for 2010, by year of registration, shows a total of 486 deaths by suicide of which 386 were male and 100 female. This is a decrease of 41 (8%) on the record high in 2009 of 527 suicides.

Whilst this reduction is welcome it must be remembered that these are only provisional figures which usually rise when full year of occurrence data is released. CSO data will be closely monitored and all of our efforts will continue to ensure that the suicide figures show a consistent downward trend.

tayto lover

cocoshovel wrote: »

Am I able to just walk into a garda station or council office and request information on suicide statistics in a certain region or area? Bit off topic I know but it does interest me.

http://www.nosp.ie/suicide_in_ireland.pdf
That is an older report but on P.20 it gives regions and age profiles

amacachi

tayto lover wrote: »

http://www.nosp.ie/suicide_in_ireland.pdf
That is an older report but on P.20 it gives regions and age profiles

Everyone should read page 46 (according to adobe reader) of that report.

tayto lover

amacachi wrote: »

Everyone should read page 46 (according to adobe reader) of that report.

Yes indeed. It's 10 years old but worth reading.

Seachmall

tayto lover wrote: »

A senior Garda said recently at a meeting that he suspected that many of the single vehicle fatal car accidents were actually suicides. People hitting the only tree or wall on a straight road in perfect conditions.
Probably made to look accidental so that parents or loved ones benefit from insurance claims. I don't think they pay out on suicides.

In Sway the authors discuss a phenomenon where when a major fatal car accident is reported the rate of other fatal car crashes increases within the months after the initial report. Some studies have suggested it has to do with what you're talking about there, that people are intentionally killing themselves but making it look like accidents.

Scarily enough, the same thing happens with pilots of commercial planes.

I'm not at home now so count quote the book but if ye're looking for a Christmas present for anyone this book is an interesting cheap read.