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Potential SHTF scenarios & tinfoil hat thread (Please read post 1)

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,111 ✭✭✭ShadowFox


    Some good points here mostly aimed at America but out of the 10 points i could see at least 8 happen here if not all 10
    http://offgridsurvival.com/shtfprepperthreats/


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,615 ✭✭✭kildare.17hmr


    grapeape wrote: »
    Some good points here mostly aimed at America but out of the 10 points i could see at least 8 happen here if not all 10
    http://offgridsurvival.com/shtfprepperthreats/
    Good link! I think all 10 could well happen over here if things got bad enough


  • Registered Users Posts: 563 ✭✭✭bonniebede


    Thanks, interesting points. One of the comments sparked a point - books.
    I do rely a lot on the internet for information, but think the need to have material printed is very important. I know readers and so on can store oodles, and can be simply recharged with solar, but like everything else why put all the eggs in one basket.

    I'm going to start a list for a basic survival library, and also a real (on paper) folder for print outs of useful items. At the moment all very cheap to do, but could be invaluable in the future.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,956 ✭✭✭Doc Ruby


    grapeape wrote: »
    Some good points here mostly aimed at America but out of the 10 points i could see at least 8 happen here if not all 10
    http://offgridsurvival.com/shtfprepperthreats/
    Points one through six, particularly this bit:
    4. Gangs & Raiders If things go bad, there will likely be more people who mean to do you harm than there will be people who are prepared. This is something that you must accept and learn to deal with. The fact is, most people have no idea what it really takes to survive and once their safety net is removed they will become increasingly desperate and unpredictable.
    are not based on real social behaviour during emergencies. Yes criminal gangs will continue to do criminal things, areas of economic inequality will get worse temporarily, but the 99.99% of the population not given to random violence isn't going to whip out the leather chaps and start chaining one another to burning cars.

    Its a very American article to be honest, based more on media dramatisation than a cool headed look at the facts. They're more likely to gun down innocents that blunder into their bunker zones than protect themselves from any realistic danger, setting themselves up on a hair trigger.

    With that said I acknowledge that in a scenario of long term deprivation things might get nasty, but there is one and only one such scenario I can come up with - famine in a developed country. Its unheard of and considered by most to be fairly impossible, so obviously no studies exist on it.

    Its considered impossible for a good reason - when you hear people talk about subsidies for farmers in the EU and US, wine lakes and bread mountains, CAP, that's all about protecting the local food supply. These are strategic policies so we don't become dependent for our food on places far away, not economic policies purely for the benefit of farmers.

    Something that would suddenly and severely disrupt local food supplies would also almost certainly kill off large sections of the population in the process. A plague for example, so you wouldn't be short of much.

    If some new hyperdeadly "potato blight" that affected all vegetable stocks of all sorts and all livestock of every breed including fish arose, itself ludicrously low in terms of possibility, then there might be a problem. Its about as likely as meteorites simultaneously hitting every city in the world by sheer chance however.

    Oil, that which brings the food from field to table, is not going to vanish overnight. They have a very clear idea how much is left in the ground, and alternate sources even if that magically vanishes. The increasing push towards electric vehicles means even that will soon cease to be a problem.

    However, if a high altitude nuke is set off, an EMP bomb, that might interrupt the food supply for a significant time, and would be perhaps the only realistic scenario where famine might become an issue.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,956 ✭✭✭Doc Ruby


    bonniebede wrote: »
    but like everything else why put all the eggs in one basket.
    Books are a lot heavier than eggs! :p Thats why I'm thinking of getting a backup reader though.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 902 ✭✭✭baords dyslexic


    Doc Ruby wrote: »
    Books are a lot heavier than eggs! :p Thats why I'm thinking of getting a backup reader though.

    I've got books on my bookshelves that are 100 years old and still perfectly relevant today, the batteries on your readers might last about 5-6 years?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,956 ✭✭✭Doc Ruby


    I've got books on my bookshelves that are 100 years old and still perfectly relevant today, the batteries on your readers might last about 5-6 years?
    How many of those will you be carrying if you have to leave in a hurry?

    I've got several thousand books sitting so comfortably in a pocket that its easy to forget they are even there.

    And if the world hasn't rectified itself to the stage where batteries are available 5-6 years after a global disaster (and it works when attached to a power source even with flat batteries), you can always go back and get some books. ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 902 ✭✭✭baords dyslexic


    Doc Ruby wrote: »
    How many of those will you be carrying if you have to leave in a hurry?

    I've got several thousand books sitting so comfortably in a pocket that its easy to forget they are even there.

    And if the world hasn't rectified itself to the stage where batteries are available 5-6 years after a global disaster (and it works when attached to a power source even with flat batteries), you can always go back and get some books. ;)

    And what did you suggest a couple of posts back as "perhaps the only realistic scenario" ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,956 ✭✭✭Doc Ruby


    And what did you suggest a couple of posts back as "perhaps the only realistic scenario" ?
    You wouldn't be carrying your bookshelf along with you in either case, EMP or not.

    I do have a miniature printed copy of the SAS survival guide in one of the pouches, but beyond that in most situations I've got access to a lot more information and entertainment than otherwise, at very little cost in terms of weight. There's no reason not to carry a nook, and plenty of reasons why its a great idea.

    It would be easy to keep it or a backup in a metal box or foil, quite portable, if I thought an EMP attack was likely. I don't really though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,956 ✭✭✭Doc Ruby




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  • Registered Users Posts: 563 ✭✭✭bonniebede


    Doc Ruby wrote: »
    How many of those will you be carrying if you have to leave in a hurry?

    I've got several thousand books sitting so comfortably in a pocket that its easy to forget they are even there.

    And if the world hasn't rectified itself to the stage where batteries are available 5-6 years after a global disaster (and it works when attached to a power source even with flat batteries), you can always go back and get some books. ;)


    But..
    1. It's smart to have both... reader and books. Why not?
    2. If the disaster is that big where are you leaving for? Sure you need your library at your bug out location, but presumably one hopes to be able to stock that in advance.
    3. Libraries are the way we have managed and transmitted civilsation for the last several millenia, and I know you are invested in that idea.:)

    So not either/or but both/and. Especially as putting everythng onto a reader, which I think is a great job, also means putting all your knowledge into one device which could get lost or damaged.

    further, some advice is necessary in the immediate short term, like how to purify water from various sources, and so on. This is the kind of info that is absolutely necessary to get through that bottleneck, so why not have it in multiply redundant ways. what if i die of the plague, and my loved ones are relying on whatever I prepped and left behind?

    Finally, while I agree with you in your various observations about how people are as likely, if not more likely to pull together rather than turn into psycho nut gangs of roaming bandits, when there is no law enforcement back up it only takes one or two people to be an immediate threat to me. It is no consolation that the majority of people are being decent and helping their neighbour if the one pyscho has decided to knock on my door.

    After all, we currently have as much law enforcement and army as we can afford, and live in a reasonably decent society, but I still have to take precautions to protect myself from random assaults/muggings. (not so worried about burglary its only stuff) So why not be prepared for a scenario which might not get much worse, but certainly would not be better.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,956 ✭✭✭Doc Ruby


    bonniebede wrote: »
    But..
    1. It's smart to have both... reader and books. Why not?
    I've already mentioned I do have a miniature SAS Survival Guide packed. As for why not generally, books are really heavy and bulky. Any comprehensive amount of them will quickly end up costing space and energy that could have been better used.
    bonniebede wrote: »
    2. If the disaster is that big where are you leaving for? Sure you need your library at your bug out location, but presumably one hopes to be able to stock that in advance.
    If someone has a dry and well maintained BOL where they can keep a library more power to them, but most people won't have that luxury.
    bonniebede wrote: »
    3. Libraries are the way we have managed and transmitted civilsation for the last several millenia, and I know you are invested in that idea.:)
    Indeed, but there's a reason we aren't using papyrus scrolls any more. Something better superceded them. Ereaders are better in some ways, worse in others, but for the purposes of the discussion they present advantages that can't be ignored.
    bonniebede wrote: »
    So not either/or but both/and. Especially as putting everythng onto a reader, which I think is a great job, also means putting all your knowledge into one device which could get lost or damaged.
    The same applies for books, unless you are keeping multiple copies of the one book in different locations. Also, ereaders aren't likely to be scavenged for kindling. ;)
    bonniebede wrote: »
    further, some advice is necessary in the immediate short term, like how to purify water from various sources, and so on. This is the kind of info that is absolutely necessary to get through that bottleneck, so why not have it in multiply redundant ways.
    I do, the core information anyway. That I can carry immensely more information at very little cost is to my mind a big bonus.
    bonniebede wrote: »
    what if i die of the plague, and my loved ones are relying on whatever I prepped and left behind?
    They can't read an ereader?

    I've nothing against electronics generally, in the great outdoors or any other place. They are a tool like any tool, and shouldn't be excluded from BOBs just because they can't be fixed with a wrench and sharpening stone.
    bonniebede wrote: »
    Finally, while I agree with you in your various observations about how people are as likely, if not more likely to pull together rather than turn into psycho nut gangs of roaming bandits, when there is no law enforcement back up it only takes one or two people to be an immediate threat to me. It is no consolation that the majority of people are being decent and helping their neighbour if the one pyscho has decided to knock on my door.

    After all, we currently have as much law enforcement and army as we can afford, and live in a reasonably decent society, but I still have to take precautions to protect myself from random assaults/muggings. (not so worried about burglary its only stuff) So why not be prepared for a scenario which might not get much worse, but certainly would not be better.
    Actually the research I linked to in your "Happy Easter" thread indicates that it does in fact get better. People in general tend to help one another far more than usual. The lone psycho is a valid issue, but its as much of an issue in everyday life. My advice wouldn't be to bunker up but to go out and help others in the community. That doesn't mean handing out your food like sweets at Halloween, but joining in will improve survival chances.

    Incidentally the other side of the law enforcement coin is that criminals can often act with impunity because responsible citizens are more afraid of the law than the criminals. Take that away and the bad guys might find themselves in deep trouble very quickly.


  • Registered Users Posts: 563 ✭✭✭bonniebede


    Doc Ruby wrote: »
    If someone has a dry and well maintained BOL where they can keep a library more power to them, but most people won't have that luxury.
    .

    :eek: Books are not a luxury! (emm. is it possible to be a book-a-holic? just wondering:o)
    Doc Ruby wrote: »
    Ereaders are better in some ways, ereaders aren't likely to be scavenged for kindling. ;)
    .

    True of course they have advantages. Kindling, hmm, you've just made me feel better about having a stack of books, though simulatnaously traumatised by the thought of BURNING A BOOK!!!!:p
    Doc Ruby wrote: »

    They can't read an ereader?
    .

    Well of course they can thats why I would like to have both.
    Doc Ruby wrote: »
    I've nothing against electronics generally, in the great outdoors or any other place. They are a tool like any tool, and shouldn't be excluded from BOBs just because they can't be fixed with a wrench and sharpening stone.
    .

    Well said that man. Too easy as a prepper to get seduced by some back to nature/back to basics fantasy. a month using an outdoor toilet would soon cure that. In fact, as i currently have a tummy bug make that an hour. (continuous:pac:)
    Doc Ruby wrote: »

    The lone psycho is a valid issue, but its as much of an issue in everyday life. My advice wouldn't be to bunker up but to go out and help others in the community.
    Incidentally the other side of the law enforcement coin is that criminals can often act with impunity because responsible citizens are more afraid of the law than the criminals. Take that away and the bad guys might find themselves in deep trouble very quickly.

    Agreed. Maybe its being female and being used from a young age to always consider the dangers of any place I happen to be, especially at night etc. I can't imagine not being vigilant for ones own safety. Preparations for what to do if attacked at home are nto part of prepping for sometime but part of dealing with present real possibilities. The only change I anticipate would be increased numbers of criminals and increased violence. Other than that, plus ca change.:cool:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 902 ✭✭✭baords dyslexic


    Hmmmm Kindling - no pun intended then :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,599 ✭✭✭Fiskar


    Public sector numbers in defence 15% and Justice down 13% repectively or 3,700 personnel.
    That's a hell of a lot of a reduction which will only serve to dimish law and order response and responses to weather disasters.
    Not a good start and I only got to the 1st item on the website!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,111 ✭✭✭ShadowFox


    Doc Ruby wrote: »
    Points one through six, particularly this bit:

    are not based on real social behaviour during emergencies. Yes criminal gangs will continue to do criminal things, areas of economic inequality will get worse temporarily, but the 99.99% of the population not given to random violence isn't going to whip out the leather chaps and start chaining one another to burning cars.

    I deal with the Scum of Dublin on a daily basis and ive noticed a big change in them lately where you used to have beggars all over the city now because people dont have the money to give them they are mugging people at knife point if the SHTF this will get a whole lot worse as you will have normal people fighting for food as it is the amount of people going to the soup kitchens in Dublin city have increased 40 to 50 %
    Also ive been doing some research and the experts state that during EMP or major power cuts is when people get so afraid for their safety that most would hide away rather than help each other but most other cases they would join together


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,536 ✭✭✭touts


    All through history the king or lord or baron has been the biggest scumbag in the area who killed all opposition and intimidated the local community with his armed thugs. Civilised society has controlled this but only in ths last century or so. In some parts of africa, asia and the middle east the thugs still hold power.

    In any collapse of society the ones who rise to local "leadership" will be the elements who currently think drive by shootings are an acceptable business strategy or who think slash hooks are standard issue at funerals. Ironically among the first victims of the new local lords will be the wealthy lawyers and judges who currently defend their rights. When these boyos start looking for fancy houses and flash cars they wont care about the legal arguments of the current owners.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,956 ✭✭✭Doc Ruby


    grapeape wrote: »
    I deal with the Scum of Dublin on a daily basis and ive noticed a big change in them lately where you used to have beggars all over the city now because people dont have the money to give them they are mugging people at knife point if the SHTF this will get a whole lot worse as you will have normal people fighting for food as it is the amount of people going to the soup kitchens in Dublin city have increased 40 to 50 %
    Sure, so avoid rough areas if things get wild.
    grapeape wrote: »
    Also ive been doing some research and the experts state that during EMP or major power cuts is when people get so afraid for their safety that most would hide away rather than help each other but most other cases they would join together
    Interesting, have you a link handy, I'd like a read. The more of a detailed idea of how people are going to respond in various emergencies we have, obviously the better prepared we will be.
    touts wrote: »
    In any collapse of society the ones who rise to local "leadership" will be the elements who currently think drive by shootings are an acceptable business strategy or who think slash hooks are standard issue at funerals.
    This isn't what happens, typically.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,111 ✭✭✭ShadowFox


    Doc Ruby wrote: »
    Sure, so avoid rough areas if things get wild.

    I work in the "posh" parts of Dublin and the "rough" parts and to be honest lately there isnt a hell of a difference lately One of our lads got stabbed in what we classed a year ago as a handy quiet area I myself have been out injured for the last 6 months and there is no sign of an end to it as yet


    Interesting, have you a link handy, I'd like a read. The more of a detailed idea of how people are going to respond in various emergencies we have, obviously the better prepared we will be.

    Ill have a look for the link again it was also featured on doomsday preppers on Natgeo channel some good ideas on that show things i didnt know or would have thought about


    This isn't what happens, typically.
    In my personal opinion the way i look at things is nothing like this has happened here (since the english rule) and the Irish are really too laid back so there is no typically here as we dont know how people will act. So i look at it as prepare for the worst anything else is a bonus


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,956 ✭✭✭Doc Ruby


    grapeape wrote: »
    In my personal opinion the way i look at things is nothing like this has happened here (since the english rule) and the Irish are really too laid back so there is no typically here as we dont know how people will act.
    What, and the other places where disasters happened were regular war zones were they? I'm not talking about my opinion or yours, I'm talking about what historically has happened. Not what we see on youtube, not what we see in disaster movies, thats just entertainment.
    grapeape wrote: »
    So i look at it as prepare for the worst anything else is a bonus
    A wise policy, more power to you.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,111 ✭✭✭ShadowFox


    Doc Ruby wrote: »
    What, and the other places where disasters happened were regular war zones were they? I'm not talking about my opinion or yours, I'm talking about what historically has happened. Not what we see on youtube, not what we see in disaster movies, thats just entertainment.


    Im talking about this country not the rest of Europe we have been very lucky in the fact that we havent as yet got major hurricanes earth quakes the last war zone we had was english rule nearly 100 years ago (apart from the north but again english rule)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,111 ✭✭✭ShadowFox


    This seems a strange thing for him to be doing seeing as he could be voted out in september
    http://offgridsurvival.com/obamadeclaresnationalemergency-6262012/


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,081 ✭✭✭sheesh


    bonniebede wrote: »

    you should go into college microbiology/ virology lecture and its that every second sentence. virologists are complete drama queens! :D

    its all Aids-becoming-airborne this drug-resistant-malaria that

    it makes it very easy to remember and fun too!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,111 ✭✭✭ShadowFox


    Some pictures of what happened in the uk last night check out the hail stones one of them to the head is gonna hurt
    http://uk.news.yahoo.com/photos/uk-gripped-by-flooding-after-torrential-downpours-slideshow/car-seen-abandoned-flood-water-under-metro-bridge-photo-195050910.html


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,761 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tabnabs


    I saw one shot on the news last night where someone had one of these barriers and thought it looked good for a flood area.

    http://www.floodmaster.co.uk/door-barriers.html


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,111 ✭✭✭ShadowFox


    Tabnabs wrote: »
    I saw one shot on the news last night where someone had one of these barriers and thought it looked good for a flood area.

    http://www.floodmaster.co.uk/door-barriers.html
    Ive seen them for your driveway somewhere before too they look and work great


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,956 ✭✭✭Doc Ruby


    Mother nature still kicks like a mule, I see.
    (Reuters) - More than 1.4 million people from Illinois to Virginia remained without power Tuesday morning after the weekend's violent storms, and a heat wave continued to bake much of the region, the regional power companies said. The power companies warned some customers could be without power to run their air conditioners for the rest of the week in the worst hit areas.

    High temperatures across the region were expected to reach the 90s Fahrenheit (32 Celsius) over the next several days, according to AccuWeather.com.
    The storms crossed the Eastern United States with heavy rain, hail and winds reaching 80 miles per hour starting Friday night, leaving more than 3 million homes and businesses without the power, according to a federal energy report.

    The storms also claimed at least 15 lives, mostly from falling trees and branches across the Midwest and Mid-Atlantic states.

    American Electric Power Co Inc of Ohio said Tuesday morning that crews were working to restore power to 357,000 customers in Virginia and West Virginia; 298,000 in Ohio; 32,000 in Indiana; and 14,000 in Kentucky.

    FirstEnergy Corp of Ohio said it had 216,000 customers out in its five-state service area of Ohio, Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Maryland and New Jersey. That was down from about the initial 566,000 affected by the storms.

    Illinois-based Exelon Corp said its Baltimore Gas & Electric (BG&E) unit in Maryland had about 170,000 customers out, down from about 600,000 homes and businesses affected.

    Virginia power company Dominion Resources Inc said it still had more than 170,000 customers without electricity in its Virginia and North Carolina service areas.

    Washington, D.C.-based Pepco Holdings Inc said it had more than 116,000 customers without power in the District of Columbia and Maryland and more than 69,000 out in New Jersey.
    This is something I could see happening in Ireland as the weather gets weirder year on year.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,111 ✭✭✭ShadowFox




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,111 ✭✭✭ShadowFox




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,956 ✭✭✭Doc Ruby


    grapeape wrote: »
    You seriously need to find a new website to read. :p


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,956 ✭✭✭Doc Ruby


    More welly weather en route...

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0706/breaking18.html?via=mr

    Met Éireann has warned of possible flooding in parts of Leinster and east Munster today as heavy rain spreads westwards across the country.
    The forecaster said a band of heavy rain which affected Wales and central England overnight has pushed its way across the Irish Sea, with coastal counties of Leinster already experiencing heavy downpours this morning.
    Rain will become heavier in the east and continue throughout the afternoon. All areas of Leinster are expected to experience heavy rain but Dublin, Wicklow and Wexford will be worst affected with 25 to 30mm of rainfall forecast in some areas.
    “Ground conditions are very saturated at the moment all over the country,” said Met Éireann meteorologist Vincent O’Shea.
    “Getting another 25 or 30 millimetres of rain in the southern half of Leinster today will lead to a high risk of flooding. Eastern counties of Munster, most notably Cork and Waterford, could also be at risk,” he said.
    Rainfall is expected to be more widespread than the deluge in Cork and Antrim last week which caused severe localised flooding.
    Rain will be more scattered in Connacht and west Ulster, with some spells of sunshine. It will be mild and humid, with temperatures reaching 21 or 22 degrees in some parts.
    There will be outbreaks of rain across the country tonight, with a risk of heavy, thundery showers.
    Some bright and sunny spells are expected in the south and east tomorrow, but the west and northwest of the country will experience scattered showers and heavy rain at times.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,271 ✭✭✭✭johngalway


    grapeape wrote: »
    Ive seen them for your driveway somewhere before too they look and work great

    If water was to come that high I'd be worried about drains as well as doors. Could find that the sewer backs up.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,956 ✭✭✭Doc Ruby


    Today is the 50th anniversary of Starfish Prime, the first test of an atmospheric EMP bomb.
    On July 9, 1962, the US launched a Thor missile from Johnston island, an atoll about 1500 kilometers (900 miles) southwest of Hawaii. The missile arced up to a height of over 1100 km (660 miles), then came back down. At the preprogrammed height of 400 km (240 miles), just seconds after 09:00 UTC, the 1.4 megaton nuclear warhead detonated.

    And all hell broke loose.

    ---

    One immediate effect of the blast was a huge aurora seen for thousands of kilometers around. Electrons are lightweight and travel rapidly away from the explosion. A moving electron is affected by a magnetic field, so these electrons actually flowed quickly along the Earth’s magnetic field lines and were dropped into the upper atmosphere. At a height of roughly 50 – 100 kilometers they were stopped by the atoms and molecules of Earth’s atmosphere. Those atoms and molecules absorbed the energy of the electrons and responded by glowing, creating an artificial aurora.

    Heavy ions (atoms stripped of electrons) are also created in the blast, and get absorbed somewhat higher up in the atmosphere. The image here shows this glow as seen by an airplane moments after the nuclear explosion. The feathery filament is from the bomb debris, while the red glow may be due to glowing oxygen atoms; this tends to be from atoms higher than 100 km, so the glow is probably due to the heavy ions impacting our air.

    Taking the pulse of a nuclear weapon

    But the effects were far more than a simple light show. When the bomb detonated, those electrons underwent incredible acceleration. When that happens they create a brief but extremely powerful magnetic field. This is called an electromagnetic pulse, or EMP. The strength of the pulse was so huge that it affected the flow of electricity on the Earth hundreds of kilometers away! In Hawaii it blew out hundreds of streetlights, and caused widespread telephone outages. Other effects included electrical surges on airplanes and radio blackouts.

    The EMP had been predicted by scientists, but the Starfish Prime pulse was far larger than expected. And there was another effect that hadn’t been predicted accurately. Many of the electrons from the blast didn’t fall down into the Earth’s atmosphere, but instead lingered in space for months, trapped by Earth’s magnetic field, creating an artificial radiation belt high above our planet’s surface.

    When a high-speed electron hits a satellite, it can generate a sort-of miniature EMP. The details are complex, but the net effect is that these electrons can zap satellites and damage their electronics. The pulse of electrons from the Starfish Prime detonation damaged at least six satellites (including one Soviet bird), all of which eventually failed due to the blast. Other satellite failures at the time may be linked to the explosion as well.

    The overall effect shocked scientists and engineers. They had expected something much smaller, not nearly the level that actually occurred. Because of this, later high-altitude nuclear tests made by the US as part of Operation Fishbowl were designed to have a much lower yield. Although the explosion energies are still classified, it’s estimated they ranged from a few dozen to a few hundred kilotons, a fraction of the 1.4 megaton Starfish Prime explosion.

    Ripples downstream

    The long-term physical effects from the explosion died down after a few months, but the ramifications live on today. In 2010, the Defense Threat Reduction Agency issued a report called "Collateral Damage to Satellites from an EMP Attack", and I highly recommend reading it if you’ve gotten too much sleep lately. It details the effects of a high-altitude nuclear blast, and how one could be used to disable an entire country in one blow.

    I am of the opinion that knowing is better than not knowing, even when the knowledge is terrifying. In this case, forewarned is forearmed. This EMP knowledge has been out there for decades, so the more we understand it, the better we may be able to use it to prevent damage from the bad guys from trying something like this.



    Happy birthday, end of the world as we know it!


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,956 ✭✭✭Doc Ruby


    No word on whether or not this is a drug resistant/immune strain or just poor public health practise, but TB is rearing its head again...
    The state of Florida has been struggling for months with what the Centers for Disease Control describe as the worst tuberculosis outbreak in the United States in twenty years.

    Although a CDC report went out to state health officials in April encouraging them to take concerted action, the warning went largely unnoticed and nothing has been done. The public did not even learn of the outbreak until June, after a man with an active case of TB was spotted in a Jacksonville soup kitchen.

    The Palm Beach Post has managed to obtain records on the outbreak and the CDC report, though only after weeks of repeated requests. These documents should have been freely available under Florida’s Sunshine Law.

    According to the Post, the coverup began as early as last February, “when Duval County Health Department officials felt so overwhelmed by the sudden spike in tuberculosis that they asked the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to become involved. Believing the outbreak affected only their underclass, the health officials made a conscious decision not to not tell the public, repeating a decision they had made in 2008, when the same strain had appeared in an assisted living home for people with schizophrenia.”

    That decision now appears to have gone terribly awry, partly because the disease appears to have already spread into the general population but also because just nine days before the CDC warning was issued, Florida Governor Rick Scott had signed a bill downsizing the state’s Department of Health and closing the A.G. Holley State Hospital that had treated the most difficult tuberculosis cases for over 60 years.

    With health officials preoccupied by the challenge of restructuring, the CDC report went unseen, and an order even went out for the hospital to be closed immediately, six months ahead of schedule.

    According to the Post, by April the outbreak had been linked to thirteen deaths, with 99 individuals infected, including six children. Most of those affected were poor black men, ten of whom simply wasted away from the disease before getting treatment or were not treated in time to stop its progression.

    Now it is estimated that as many as 3000 people may have been exposed to the strain over the past two years, mainly in Jacksonville’s homeless shelters, jails, and a mental health clinic. Only 253 of those have been found, of whom one-third have tested positive for TB exposure.

    “The high number of deaths in this outbreak emphasizes the need for vigilant active case finding, improved education about TB, and ongoing screening at all sites with outbreak cases,” the CDC report urged.

    Now the strain has not only spread beyond the underclass but has started appearing in other parts of the state, including Miami.

    I get the feeling we haven't heard the last of this particular bug.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,615 ✭✭✭kildare.17hmr


    Could be nothing but then again..

    http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2056698176


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,738 ✭✭✭mawk


    military taking over you say?


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,761 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tabnabs


    Have been following the thread, but reckon Boards would be light up if anything significant was happening.


  • Registered Users Posts: 326 ✭✭evilmonkee


    Possibly not related but a large truck toppled over in the city yesterday (didnt catch the location), may be related.

    When I was in a car crash and the car flipped, witnesses said it sounded like a truck crashing, it was a very small car (VW Lupo, about the size of the old micra). The noise from a truck toppling could be very loud.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,615 ✭✭✭kildare.17hmr


    I was expecting something a bit more than an unexplainable noise and a few unrelated garda and army helicopters :rolleyes: haha


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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,761 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tabnabs


    This is an incredible story about luck as much as anything else!
    William Martin LaFever has lots of reasons for still being alive after wandering for weeks in the remote Escalante Desert of southern Utah. One is the sheer luck that searchers put a rescue helicopter in just the right place; that was what ended one of the most amazing -- and perhaps luckiest -- survival stories in years.

    But Garfield County, Utah, sheriff’s authorities point to one other providential fact: LaFever is autistic, which might have led him to stay close to the life-giving Escalante River.

    “They say that those who are autistic are drawn to water,” sheriff's spokeswoman Becki Bronson told the Los Angeles Times. "He stayed with a water source, that was key. A person can go three weeks without food but only a few days without water. He stayed cool in the river, and he hydrated himself.”

    Following his rescue Thursday, the 28-year-old Colorado Springs, Colo., man told officials he scavenged bits of food, captured frogs and drank river water while attempting to walk the 90 miles from Boulder, Utah, to Page, Ariz. He made 40 of those miles over three weeks before being rescued, emaciated but alive.

    Bronson told The Times that the desert landscape from which LaFever was plucked is as inhospitable as Mars.

    “It’s a place where they hold outdoor survival classes, a mixture of jagged lava rock and slippery sandstone, heavy sagebrush and juniper trees, desert terrain marked by sheer cliffs,” she said. “This is some of the most unforgiving terrain you will find anywhere on Earth. Where he was – there just isn’t anyone out there. There are no people. There are no towns."

    Full (and long) story here http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-autistic-man-utah-desert-20120713,0,3210052.story


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,111 ✭✭✭ShadowFox


    Public servants to have their sick leave cut in half they will be going on a super go slow after this
    http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/public-servants-to-have-sick-leave-cut-by-half-559826.html


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,455 ✭✭✭RUCKING FETARD


    grapeape wrote: »
    Public servants to have their sick leave cut in half they will be going on a super go slow after this
    http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/public-servants-to-have-sick-leave-cut-by-half-559826.html
    No worries, they can just say they were sick all through their holidays and take them all again.

    They're encouraged to take all their sick days so I'd say it'll be the same carry on with this.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,536 ✭✭✭touts


    grapeape wrote: »
    Public servants to have their sick leave cut in half they will be going on a super go slow after this
    http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/public-servants-to-have-sick-leave-cut-by-half-559826.html

    So we go from **** all service to **** all service delivered slowly. At least it might bring it all to a head. Two to three weeks of a general public service strike followed by a few days of riots as the general population burn down the union HQs and break the power of the unelected champagne swilling socialists. Then the country will start to get back on its feet. And I'll follow it all on my battery powered radio while eating my canned food and drinking my bottled water. Bring it on.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,956 ✭✭✭Doc Ruby


    “They say that those who are autistic are drawn to water,” sheriff's spokeswoman Becki Bronson told the Los Angeles Times.
    No one can hear you scream when your face is in your palm.
    touts wrote: »
    Two to three weeks of a general public service strike followed by a few days of riots as the general population burn down the union HQs and break the power of the unelected champagne swilling socialists.
    Its tempting to think that might be the outcome, but these lads are big fans of brinkmanship. I hope its as quick and clean as that, but probably it will be a running battle for decades to come.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,455 ✭✭✭RUCKING FETARD


    touts wrote: »
    my bottled water.
    eww, all the leached plastic in that. eww, yuck.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,738 ✭✭✭mawk


    eww, all the leached plastic in that. eww, yuck.

    mmm delicious polyethyleneterapethalate! flavoursome!

    pet is photo sensitive, so if the bottles are kept out of daylight they should be ok for years


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 428 ✭✭wolfeye


    The number of U.S. whooping cough cases has risen to around 18,000 in an outbreak that is on track to become the most severe in over a half century and could in part stem from possible waning vaccine protection, health officials said on Thursday.


    Waning vaccines thats the start of it!

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/health/sns-rt-us-usa-whoopingcoughbre86j05u-20120719,0,1402745.story


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,407 ✭✭✭Cardinal Richelieu




  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,761 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tabnabs


    I wouldn't take too much of that to heart, when you look at longer averages it's not bleak at all.

    http://www.indexmundi.com/commodities/?commodity=wheat&months=120&commodity=soybeans


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