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Potential SHTF scenarios & tinfoil hat thread (Please read post 1)

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  • Doc Ruby wrote: »
    Its not quite "The Stand" level of disease, but its out there folks, right now, in a lab, the bottled collapse of societies around the globe. Its worth noting that the process to create these strains is probably fairly simple as well, hence the need for secrecy, although many researchers have pointed out that since its so simple it may very well happen naturally anyway.

    Only good thing about the collapse of societies around the globe is that it will also reduce the ability of the suviviors to pass deseases around by reducing international travel.




  • Only good thing about the collapse of societies around the globe is that it will also reduce the ability of the suviviors to pass deseases around by reducing international travel.
    Might be a case of closing the barn door after the horse has bolted, BD! :D I'd be very interested to know are there protocols for quarantining whole geographical areas like cities, countries and states, although I'm fairly sure Ireland hasn't got an emergency plan.

    Sounds like a situation where the oul food stocks and general survival skills might come in handy, with lots of isolated communities and trade routes falling apart.




  • Doc Ruby wrote: »
    Might be a case of closing the barn door after the horse has bolted, BD! :D I'd be very interested to know are there protocols for quarantining whole geographical areas like cities, countries and states, although I'm fairly sure Ireland hasn't got an emergency plan.

    Sounds like a situation where the oul food stocks and general survival skills might come in handy, with lots of isolated communities and trade routes falling apart.


    I think they really have a "cunning plan" :pac:

    We keep chickens and all flocks should be registered (everyone we know with hens is) and were inspected to see that we had the basics if there was a bird flu epidemic, birds needed to have as a minimum covered runs or somewhere they could be housed under cover and all water had to be covered.

    So guess there must be more to the plan than just that ;)




  • So guess there must be more to the plan than just that ;)
    Possibly. I did a bit of digging and found two apparently contradictory accounts of Ireland's preparedness.
    In November 2005, Ireland conducted a national exercise to test its preparedness for an avian flu pandemic. The HSE and the Office of Emergency Planning (OEP) coordinated a plan which dealt with an outbreak of avian flu. The measures conceived consist of home quarantine, field hospitals and regional mass-vaccination centers to cope with a potential bird flu pandemic in Ireland.

    The National Virus Reference Laboratory (NVRL) also conducted an exercise to determine if it could detect the H5N1 avian flu virus. The NVRL managed to identify the H5N1 virus, among a batch of other flu samples, in less than seven hours.

    After reviewing the state’s exercise and avian influenza plan, Ms. Zsuzsanna Jakab, head of the European Centre for Disease Control, commented that Ireland appeared to be among “the best prepared countries” to deal with a pandemic. Ireland's pandemic preparedness strategy will likely allow Ireland to quarantine and cope with the initial phase of a pandemic.
    In 2003 the HSE was accused of failing Irish people by allowing a woman with a "probable" case of the deadly Sars disease to leave hospital.

    The Chinese woman was transferred to a hostel where she was handed a mask and told to stay away from other people.

    She was eventually given the all clear but senior health officials warned she could have infected "possibly hundreds of others she came into contact with over the weekend period".

    One health source said: "The handling of this woman's case was a shambles. When she presented herself to hospital on Good Friday she should have been taken seriously.

    "Instead she was allowed out for four days. As a result, we could have had a potential outbreak on our hands."

    The Government admitted its procedures for notification and control of the virus broke down over the Easter weekend period when the world was gripped by the outbreak.

    In 2006 the Irish Medical Organisation blasted the HSE bird flu response plans.

    President Christine O'Malley, said Ireland was "as unprepared for a bird flu outbreak as it was for Sars".

    She added: "If the hospital system can't cope now, what chance do we stand during a pandemic?"

    So which is the more accurate? Neither appears to be dated any later than five or six years ago. The main issue of course, and why the WHO didn't bother issuing travel restrictions last time round, is that by the time people become aware of the danger, they have already passed it on to everyone around them.

    As these diseases become more deadly and resistant to treatment the eventual effects of one breaking out will be all the more severe. It is in my opinion, only a matter of time.




  • This is a civil service permanent government that utterly mishandled flooding and two cold snaps in the last 3 years creating national disasters out of very minor weather events by international standards. They were the ones that solved a liquidity problem in private banks by bankrupting the nation. They oversaw a flu vaccination programme that was one of the last in the world and they put themselves at the head of the queue. They have ransacked the country to pay back the german loan sharks but refused to take hits in pay or conditions themselves.

    You would be an absolute eegit to (a) believe anything they say about the national state of readiness and (b) to trust that they wont cut you off and look after their own when the **** hits the fan.

    Once a major national disaster hits and you are no longer useful to them (purely in terms of funding their lifestyle through the tax you pay) they will cut you off and all national efforts will be focused on the areas they live in. You need to either rely on your self or move into a leavy Dublin 4 street next door to a senior manager in a governmet department.


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  • touts wrote: »
    This is a civil service permanent government that utterly mishandled flooding and two cold snaps in the last 3 years creating national disasters out of very minor weather events by international standards. They were the ones that solved a liquidity problem in private banks by bankrupting the nation. They oversaw a flu vaccination programme that was one of the last in the world and they put themselves at the head of the queue. They have ransacked the country to pay back the german loan sharks but refused to take hits in pay or conditions themselves.

    In so many ways it would be better if they just said to everyone 'make sure you have enough food and fuel to last a cold snap' rather than trying to do anything about it, because before any civil servant even lifts a finger they've already spent 3 million on the problem and those 3 million and whatever else need to be recouped through tax. They'll be branded as essential services that we'll have to pay property tax for. All because some stupid eejit starved to death cause he couldn't make his daily shopping trip or died of a headache cause he couldn't get to the pharmacy for an aspirin.


    The flooding thing was codology - leaving Inniscara closed just so they could find some fecker who was long dead.




  • Oh !! Is this the same Govt talking heads who had us so well prepared post 9/11 for any possible radiation leaks by delivering potassium iodide tablets to every household..THEN discovering they might as well have sent us a tube of Smarties for all the good they would have done if Sellafield had blown???
    For exellent planning and logical Govt thinking I suggest reading this!!
    Your tax euros at work!!
    Monthy Python couldnt have done better!!:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:


    Thursday September 27 2001
    IT WILL go down as one of the most bizarre interviews in RTE radio history and it led to calls for Joe Jacob's resignation. Mr Jacob began his interview with Marian Finucane yesterday morning by saying he found the events of the previous day "quite inexplicable".
    The junior minister was referring to Ms Finucane's show on Tuesday when researchers had major difficulty identifying the appropriate government department responsible for drawing up a response strategy to possible biological, chemical or nuclear attack.
    "Immediately I heard about it I had my officials contact you and yours to explain the situation and offer myself this morning to come in to you and talk to your readers," he said.
    "I'm grateful because I think it's important to reassure people and know that there is in place a national emergency plan for nuclear accidents."
    The minister said that "immediately in the aftermath of the atrocity of the 11 September, the Taoiseach put in place a co-ordinating committee involving a range of departments and they are meeting daily and dealing with that.
    "We are not in an emergency situation as we speak, and may it continue, but we must be prepared, so that is why my department has been preparing this plan, updating it, upgrading it, so we have what we have now.
    "The plan is complete and we will be doing in the next four weeks a test of that plan, based on assimilated incidents such as you talk about, and we will have in every home in Ireland, within weeks of that test, a fact sheet and that has been planned for two years."
    However, details of the emergency plan were lacking when the minister was questioned about what the nation should do immediately in the event of an instant attack.
    "A public awareness campaign, specifically what to do, would immediately be triggered off," he said.
    Discussing a hypothetical crisis, Marian Finucane asked: "Supposing it happened now, what do people do?" The minister replied: "First of all, the objective of the plan, it's designed to deal with the incident which you describe and it's overseen by a ministerial committee.
    Ms Finucane asked again: "But what would we do now?" The minister replied: "What we would do now is, first of all an early warning system would tell us and we have that early warning system set up at a number of stages. First of all in Ireland, we have our own network of radiation monitors around the country and they will tell us automatically that they have detected an increase in radiation in the air initially and in the water.
    "That will trigger off alarms and those are manned on a 24-hour basis. Before it arrives we have to make provision as well, so we have international warning agreements with international organisations, and countries that detect an emergency will alert us," he said.
    Later, he said: "First of all, Marian, I am very qualified to talk to you about nuclear issues and I have done so and I hope it has had the desired effect. I am not qualified to talk to you about what the question you have asked except to say that there is, in the aftermath, first of all it's highly unlikely and it was considered highly unlikely that as a small nuclear country Ireland would be targeted in such a way."
    Ms Finucane interjected: "I presume as a small neutral country."
    Mr Jacob: "I beg your pardon, I have got nuclear on the brain now, a small neutral country."
    Early warning to the Garda from international sources would take place in minutes and that information would be then passed to the public in a means described "on my fact sheet," Mr Jacob said.
    "In the event of this happening all kind of media information will be issued immediately, Marian, the minute it becomes available," he said. "Yeah, what advice?" she asked. We're eight minutes on now (from a test-run emergency) what should I have said to the listeners?"
    "Well, that information will issue based on the technical expertise or not that will assess the situation when it happens, the scale of the incident, the potential of the incident deteriorating or whatever," he said.
    Ms Finucane: "Well, suppose it's a bad situation say a plane crashed into Sellafield and the wind was blowing this way and it all happened eight minutes ago, what advice do we give to our citizens and what happens?"
    "I'm telling you that, if a plane crashed into Sellafield, we're talking about a very major accident there, something like a great power like the United States aren't geared to cope with last week. So we would tell people the situation and they would know from again this famous fact sheet that I'm talking about.
    "Well, tell me what to do," asked the presenter. "You're going to give me the fact sheet in a couple of weeks time and I'll read it but I'm talking now, it happened nine minutes ago."
    "I'll tell you," he said. "First of all, information through all means of communication." Interrupting him, the interviewer asked: "Do I tell those kids on a school bus to turn back home? Do I tell people to stay indoors?"
    "Alright, Marian, I'll tell you what you would do. We would say please remain indoors with your doors and windows closed. Switch off your ventilation systems. We want to minimise your levels of exposure to the levels of radiation that are now, God forbid, out of doors. Sheltering is most likely to be appropriate. The next thing is restriction of consumption of contaminated water or foods. Also bringing cattle indoors and using stored animal feeds."
    Non-radioactive iodine tablets that reduce the uptake of radio-active iodine following post-nuclear exposure will eventually be available from the Department of Health, he added.
    Asked how people could get hold of these, the minister said "That's one of the things that has to be tweaked in the coming weeks. That will be in the fact sheet when you get it. We mustn't be alarmistic."
    She said "The phones upstairs are going bananas. Minister, here we are now, we're 15 minutes into my warning and how do I get my iodine tablet? Tell me."
    "You'll get them from the Department of Health and Children and they will be maintaining stocks for that purpose.
    "As soon as you need them. You'll be told when we're in an emergency. We're not in an emergency. That is one of the finer points to be decided

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"





  • I'm developing a keen appreciation for the existence of the S&SS forum. So basically since 2007 or thereabouts, as far as we know, nothing has been done to enhance preparedness in this country.




  • Doc Ruby wrote: »
    I'm developing a keen appreciation for the existence of the S&SS forum. So basically since 2007 or thereabouts, as far as we know, nothing has been done to enhance preparedness in this country.

    Au contraire, I've got the porridge stashed.:D




  • Any country/Govt that stated somthing like that fiasco from Joe Jacob,or belived and stated thru another politican in the 1970s that because Ireland would be neutral in a future world war.
    All radiation would halt at our coastline and at the border from Northern Ireland.:eek::eek:
    Add then to two catostrophic Winters[for Irish standards] with the minister for transport toasting his tootsies in Malta in one of them ,and mysteriously our all weather Govt jet cant pick him up to fly home to deal with the crisis.Or even do a internet conference with his dept with the ongoing crisis....
    Not to mind having the bright idea of building the [then ]Govt fallout shelter under a century plus old building in Athlone in the Custume barracks.
    TBH if anything happens here...You are on your own!!!
    And people wonder why I've been prepping and into survivalism since the 1980s.:rolleyes:

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



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  • Man-trapped-in-snowed-in--007.jpg

    A Swedish man who spent two months snowed inside his car as temperatures outside dropped to -30C is "awake and able to communicate", according to the hospital treating him, where stunned doctors believe he was kept alive by the "igloo effect" of his vehicle.

    The man, believed to be Peter Skyllberg, 44, who was found near the north-eastern town of Umeå on Friday by passers-by, told police he had been in the car since 19 December without food, surviving only by eating snow and staying inside his warm clothes and sleeping bag.

    Dr Ulf Segerberg, the chief medical officer at Noorland's University Hospital, said he had never seen a case like it. The man had probably been kept alive, he said, by the natural warming properties of his snowed-in car which would have acted as "the equivalent of an igloo".

    "This man obviously had good clothes; he's had a sleeping bag and he's been in a car that's been snowed over," said Segerberg. "Igloos usually have a temperature of a couple of degrees below 0C and if you have good clothes you would survive in those temperatures and be able to preserve your body temperature. Obviously he has managed to preserve his body temperature or he wouldn't have made it because us humans can't really stand being cooled down like reptiles, for instance, which can change the body temperature."

    Two months was at the "upper limit" of what a person would be able to survive without food, added Segerberg.

    Skyllberg was found emaciated and very weak by a pair of snowmobilers who thought they had found a crashed car. They dug down through about a metre of snow to see its driver lying on the back seat in his sleeping bag, according to Ebbe Nyberg, a local police officer.

    "They were amazed at what they found: a man in his mid-40s huddled inside in a sleeping bag, starving and barely able to move or speak," Nyberg, working in Vaesterbotten county, was quoted as saying.

    A rescuer told the local newspaper Västerbottens-Kuriren: "It's just incredible that he's alive considering that he had no food, but also since it's been really cold for some time after Christmas."

    Police said temperatures around Umeå had fallen to -30C. One doctor, Stefan Branth, said Skyllberg may have survived by going into hibernation mode. "A bit like a bear that hibernates. Humans can do that. He probably had a body temperature of around 31C which the body adjusted to. Due to the low temperature, not much energy was used up."

    But Segerberg said he was "sceptical" of this suggestion. "We can't lower body temperature very much. A little bit we can, but if we lower body temperatures more than just a little bit, we lose consciousness and go into a coma," he said, cautioning that it was not his area of expertise.

    Skyllberg is being treated in an ordinary ward in the University Hospital, where Segerberg said he was "feeling well". It was unclear how he had come to be stranded in the deserted lane.

    Segerberg said that, even in a part of the world where sub-zero temperatures and heavy snow are the norm, this case was unusual. "There have been cases of people caught out in the mountains, and if they can dig themselves down in the snow they are able to survive and be found. But there must be something special in this case."

    mat460.jpg
    source




  • Fecking hell Id feel fairly shoite after a day without food 2 months in there must have been awful for yer man. How come he didn't dig is way out?




  • eth0 wrote: »
    Fecking hell Id feel fairly shoite after a day without food 2 months in there must have been awful for yer man. How come he didn't dig is way out?
    I'd guess the car was completely covered in deep snow over the winter, you can see where its fallen off the sides there, maybe by the time he was able to climb out the window he didn't have the strength to get out.




  • Looks like a Jeep Cherokee.If that is the case they are electric windows and if he ran the battery down they wont open.
    Begs the question then..
    IF he was coverd in this much snow for this length of time..Why didnt he suffocate??Or was poisioned by carbon monoxide from the exhaust fumes if he was running the engine to keep warm???Un openable windows,that high snow on the Jeep would make it pretty airtight...
    Even Igloos have an air vent as any Eskimo will tell you!!!
    Somthing fishy here!!:confused:

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"





  • Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    IF he was coverd in this much snow for this length of time..Why didnt he suffocate??Or was poisioned by carbon monoxide from the exhaust fumes if he was running the engine to keep warm???Un openable windows,that high snow on the Jeep would make it pretty airtight...
    He was eating snow so presumably a window was open to some degree.

    It's possible the snow wasn't actually that high above the vehicle but he decided that even if he dug himself out, he didn't have the clothing to survive a hike back in the ridiculously low temps, so stayed put instead. Then by the time conditions improved, he was too weak to do anything about it.

    19th December might be pushing it a little, the waste he'd produce in two months in such a cramped space would be a nightmare. Maybe he was out of it when talking to police.




  • seamus wrote: »
    He was eating snow so presumably a window was open to some degree.

    It's possible the snow wasn't actually that high above the vehicle but he decided that even if he dug himself out, he didn't have the clothing to survive a hike back in the ridiculously low temps, so stayed put instead. Then by the time conditions improved, he was too weak to do anything about it.

    19th December might be pushing it a little, the waste he'd produce in two months in such a cramped space would be a nightmare. Maybe he was out of it when talking to police.

    not much going in, not much coming out. I'll say no more




  • seamus wrote: »
    the waste he'd produce in two months in such a cramped space would be a nightmare. Maybe he was out of it when talking to police.

    Well, you'd stop pooping very quickly. Nothing in = nothing out. Then you're just looking at pee, which you could put in a cup, then throw out the window presumably (or just pee on the floor - not pleasant, but it wont kill you).

    I wonder what his fat reserves were like starting out? Obviously if he was a bit fat he would have had a much better chance of lasting a decent amount of time. Still though....I'm somewhat sceptical.

    I remember hearing (and have just googled, here's a link to the study on pubmed) of a guy who lasted over a year with no food but with various mineral and vitamin supplements.




  • Still doesnt work out...Even IF he just lived on water,his body fat reserves are depleting double quick to just keep him warm.52 days with out food...
    [Wasnt that how long Bobby Sands or one of the hunger strikers lasted in a hospital without eating before they died??]
    Even doing nothing,but ASFIK your body is breaking down really quick by day 14 plus??to the point of deliruim??
    Hmmm,looking at the pics of the interior,a few coke cans and other identifiable food wrappers??
    Another thing..Why isnt the inside of the Jeep ripped asunder?Like the seat coverings ripped up ?The carpet and roof liner and seat material stuffing?Wouldnt you consider the warmth factor of this material abit more important than the ...er ..good interior looks ??

    Folks I just think there is abit more to this story than is meeting the eye.. Not to mind it seems to have been dropped from the media that this guy was in serious financial difficulties and suicideal as well.Going by Sundays Euro and UK papers.

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"





  • So the lesson from all this is the couple of bars, packet of crisps and bottle of water you have in the car isn't going to get you through 2 months trapped in your car unless it's -30c outside (and even then possibly not).

    I imagine around the world some lads sat down last weekend and tried to work out how to get two months food into their car emergency bag. Now there's a challenge....




  • The latest update on this remarkable story.
    The emaciated 44-year-old man, named in media reports as Peter Skyllberg, was pulled from a totally snow-covered car parked deep in the woods near the northern Swedish town of Umeå last Friday.

    He claimed he had not had access to food since December 19 and had survived on snow, according to local police.

    Starving and barely able to move or speak, the man himself, who has been hospitalized, has so far shed little light on the mystery of how and when he got into the unlikely situation.

    Police have only been able to say he must have been in the isolated spot since before the autumn snow-fall, as there were no tracks to or from the car.

    A shopkeeper in the nearby village of Saevar meanwhile told Monday's Aftonbladet daily that the man had come into his small petrol station and grocery store starting in the summer.

    "He drove here in the car. Sometimes he filled the tank, sometimes he bought sausages and coffee," Andreas Oestensson told the paper's online edition, adding:

    "He said he was living in the woods and was sleeping in a tent and sometimes the car."

    He said the man, who is from the central Swedish town of Örebro, had told him he had worked as a carpenter but had lost his job.

    The paper also quoted an unnamed person who knew him saying he had just taken off last May with debt collectors on his heels and had not been heard from since.

    While the claim he had survived for a full 60 days with no food and in temperatures down to minus 30 degrees Celsius has drawn scepticism, experts say it is theoretically possible.

    Tommy Cederholm, a professor of clinical nutrition at Uppsala University, pointed out to Aftonbladet that 60 days is considered the maximum period a human can survive without food, if water is available.

    He pointed to the case of Bobby Sands, a political prisoner in Northern Ireland who died in 1981 after 66 days on hunger strike.

    "Surviving more than 60 days is unlikely, but cold temperatures can mean the metabolism and energy use decline," he said.
    source


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  • touts wrote: »
    So the lesson from all this is the couple of bars, packet of crisps and bottle of water you have in the car isn't going to get you through 2 months trapped in your car unless it's -30c outside (and even then possibly not).

    I imagine around the world some lads sat down last weekend and tried to work out how to get two months food into their car emergency bag. Now there's a challenge....
    That woukd be an easy challange if it was to stay in the car, 2 months supply of food just enough to stay alive is not that much at all




  • Ah the solar flare. Few dead satellites at the most, possibly a few people panicking because the routine of their daily lives have been interrupted or their gadgets they've grown to rely on stopped working. but very little actual 'bad' happening. most of the damage would be repaired easily enough

    Like the kind of snow or floods we have here, a big fuss made over it by the news with reports of death tolls and billions of damage but really life just goes on when it's finished.




  • grapeape wrote: »
    I was facing the window when it hit this morning and I had to roll over. FML.




  • grapeape wrote: »
    For the last few years they've been belting on about how inactive the Sun was, they were even on about sending up a satelite to see what was up, now they want us worrying about a few UVs.

    I'm breaking out the shorts!




  • Massive solar flares have been reported before

    "Lads! Massive solar flare coming! Stay inside, all your electronics will be fried! Mayhem!"

    ....

    Then nothing. If you go back to see what ever happened that solar flare you might find out a Russian weather satellite on its last legs packed up around the same time as the flare




  • DISAPPOINTED!!!:p
    [Kevin Kline A fish called Wanda]

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"





  • Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    DISAPPOINTED!!!:p
    [Kevin Kline A fish called Wanda]

    You mean I don't even need to wear a tinfoil hat?

    Might at least get a decent aurora borialis? http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/huge-solar-flare-to-hit-earth-with-threat-of-power-cuts-3043967.html

    Last time I saw one from Co Waterford was about 10 years ago.




  • I wish the media wouldn't try to blow up nonevents like this into Hollywood blockbuster style titles. They do it often enough and nobody's going to listen to them when something dangerous really comes along.


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    http://w3.newsmax.com/a/aftershockb/video47.cfm?promo_code=E580-1


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