Detailing Thread

vectra

richardsheil wrote: »

Then I minterised it "in the rain" using wool mop and Chemical Guys P40.


Knackered after all that.

That P40 is good tack for cleaning the paint

MetzgerMeister

richardsheil wrote: »

Yeah- brother in law bought a Saab 9-3 on Tuesday on which I changed thermostat on Friday. Then I shampooed the seats (with Woodies carpet shampoo machine (rent for 20 a day, use washing powder as detergent).

Then I minterised it "in the rain" using wool mop and Chemical Guys P40.

Dried it out and applied Autoglym sealant under a garage canopy as the rain continued and the minterising was complete. Car feels like it is worth at least 1500 more now that it doesn't stink of smoke and now the body gleams. Sorry no photos.

Knackered after all that.

What's minterising? I've never come across that term before.

E39MSport

It's a genius Phrase and gave me a chuckle. Adopted

Let the Minterisation begin ...

richardsheil

einheisserschre wrote: »

What's minterising? I've never come across that term before.

Turning the car from a dog into a mint car or minter.

BanzaiBk

Had a nightmare weekend doing an enhancement correction on pearl blue VW Passat. I tried nearly 12 pad/fluid combinations before I was happy. It was my first use of Dodo's Supernatural Hybrid and I was impressed by initial depth of shine. Tight beads too

no1beemerfan

I went up to Andy in detailer.ie during the summer and bought a whole load of products and a polishing machine etc. Andy went through everything with me and since then I've done........................


nothing!


Don't have a shed to work in and every weekend I'm at home it rains and every weekend I'm away its dry!

vectra

BanzaiBk wrote: »

Had a nightmare weekend doing an enhancement correction on pearl blue VW Passat. I tried nearly 12 pad/fluid combinations before I was happy. It was my first use of Dodo's Supernatural Hybrid and I was impressed by initial depth of shine. Tight beads too

What cutting/Pad combo did you find the best?

Can anyone offer advice on wet sanding?
I don't mean the type of advice such as "Look on youtube"
I need actual paint type advice.

Owen

It's fooking scary that every here is so gung ho at going wet sanding.

vectra

Owen wrote: »

It's fooking scary that every here is so gung ho at going wet sanding.

Owen

It's just that wet sanding seems to be a buzz word that people here have hooked on to. Wet sanding is very extreme - I mean stupidly extreme. The only time you should use wet sanding IMHO is if there's dust in freshly applied paint and you want to sand it flat.

People here are having a go at detailing from an amateur perspective and fair play, everyone likes learning new stuff. Wet sanding is impossibly difficult to buff back to a decent clear shine unless you've been at it a very long time. It's a dangerously destructive process, and it's genuinely scary here to see so many people willing to go at it on their cars.

I think people would be better served learning how to use their polishing mops and polishes. There's nothing anyone on this forum wants to achieve with wet sanding that isn't achieveable with slow, methodical polishing with different grade polishes.

E39MSport

Owen wrote: »

It's fooking scary that every here is so gung ho at going wet sanding.

Sounds scary enough alright but there's only so much that a polish and pad can do I think.

I'm going to use my Esty as a donor body and get at some panels with overnight soaked fine grit.

If I can sand then polish in a fraction of the time then I'm all up for it.

Stewie (dw.co.uk) used grit on my (now) Bora....

Owen

E39MSport wrote: »

Sounds scary enough alright but there's only so much that a polish and pad can do I think.

Polish and a pad can burn down to metal if used incorrectly - why do people think it can't restore paintwork and only wet sanding can?

I agree for very bad swirl marks, it can make life a little easier, but when you consider that on most cars lacquer is about 1-1.5mm thick why would someone wet sand off most of it, and then go at it with a polisher inevitably removing the rest? It's asking for trouble IMHO - especially when people here discuss the grades of paper they want to use, 1200, 1500, 2000. Andy's been here talking about what he uses when he has to, and even he'll only go at panels with 3000 when it's necessary.

E39MSport

3000 was where I was going.

Don't get me wrong - it does sound scary to me but want to give it a try myself.

I couldn't give a flying fook if thr Esty ends up with bald patches - at least the other motors won't

Thanks man

vectra

Owen wrote: »

Polish and a pad can burn down to metal if used incorrectly - why do people think it can't restore paintwork and only wet sanding can?

I agree for very bad swirl marks, it can make life a little easier, but when you consider that on most cars lacquer is about 1-1.5mm thick why would someone wet sand off most of it, and then go at it with a polisher inevitably removing the rest? It's asking for trouble IMHO - especially when people here discuss the grades of paper they want to use, 1200, 1500, 2000. Andy's been here talking about what he uses when he has to, and even he'll only go at panels with 3000 when it's necessary.

This is what I am wondering.
Would there be lacquer on a '01 Seat Toledo Black?
It may look shiney but trust me..There are some serious swirls in it that a da did nothing for. If it is a clear over base then I would leave it. If it is solid color then I would be prepared to give it a go
This one>

TomMc

Vectra have a read through this.

http://www.defelsko.com/applications/paintmeter/automotive-paint-detailing.htm

Most modern cars (10 yrs old and newer) will have clearcoat, not just metallic colours. If you were to polish factory paint with an abrasive polish if no bodycolour comes out on your applicator you can assume you have a clearcoat. Ultimately, you want to remove as little clearcoat as possible over the lifetime of the vehicle or it could lead to premature clearcoat failure. The UV filters in clearcoat that help to prevent colour fading and oxidation migrate through the coating over time. So the top few percent is the most valuable part of the clearcoat altogether. On a 10 year old car, I would be preserving the existing clearcoat, rather than trying to remove anymore. I wouldn't dream of wet sanding. Although some do so on newer cars to reduce orange peel (poor quality factory paint jobs these days), but that's another story! In fact it would be wise not to wet sand or polish the paint intensively without getting paint thickness readings first. And only the very expensive electronic measuring devices can measure the thickness of individual paint coatings. The less expensive metal ones just measure all coatings added together (not individually), so a guestimate is where it is at.

http://www.autopia.org/forum/epic-threads/136546-clear-coat-thickness-paint-removal-polishing.html

http://www.1car-detailing-training.com/electronic-paintthickness-gauges-a-31.html

Owen

Thanks Tom, yourself and Andy know a lot more about detailing than me - that's a brilliant lot of information!

MetzgerMeister

Tom - what would your advice be regarding getting a paint correction done on Japanese cars?

I own a 2007 Mazda and I think it's fairly common knowledge that Jap cars have thin paint and lacquer coatings.

Would it make any difference that it's an original Irish car and not Jap import?

vectra

TomMc wrote: »

Vectra have a read through this.

Now you have made me have second thoughts.

TomMc

einheisserschre wrote: »

Tom - what would your advice be regarding getting a paint correction done on Japanese cars?

I own a 2007 Mazda and I think it's fairly common knowledge that Jap cars have thin paint and lacquer coatings.

Would it make any difference that it's an original Irish car and not Jap import?

Yes, most Japanese marques have soft paint, some jap cars the softest of all. Although Nissan (Infiniti in the USA) introduced a self-healing paint on some of their high end models. So the general rule of thumb is to start with the least abrasive polish and work from there. Some colours and paint types will require more work than others to perfect. From defect or swirl removal on harder paints to say avoid leaving holograms behind on soft solid dark colours.

And while as you say it is common knowledge that Mazda's paint is regarded among the soft types, you really have to treat each car individually. As paint quality/thickness can vary from one car to the next (same model), and even panel to panel on the same car. And then you have to factor in if you are polishing factory paint or an aftermarket (respray) finish. That's where a paint measuring device is really handy.

Without having first hand experience of various examples of whatever exact model of Mazda you have, I can only speculate. Normally I would assume that the standard of paint on an official Irish car would be the same as on a jap import, providing both cars have OEM paint and were manufactured in the same plant or country. But of course many motor manufacturers have plants on numerous continents serving different markets, so paint type and quality could vary between the two.

What I would recommend is that you get a full-time professional detailer, nothing less. Someone with the expertise, equipment and on-site facilities to do the job right. I wouldn't go to a bodyshop, as while many have the skills, very few will be in a position to set aside enough time to do things to detailing standard. They have a completely different business model and time is money.

E39MSport

@ einheisserschre, this is the DIY thread and my recommendation is to use the money that you would burn on a 'pro' to invest in your own kit and take your time with it

By it's nature, it's repeat work to a certain extent.

The net is your friend - there has to be Mazda specific info out there.

It's (paintwork correction/protection) not rocket science by any means and something that many enthusiasts are adopting.

Personally, I am very particular and find that most pros in many domains don't meet my standards.

That's not to detract from the skills and knowledge of some on here that may make a living from it.

Northern Monkey

This should give you a rough starting point with regard to your paint hardness, but as Tom said every car is different (A R32 golf has softer paint than the rest of the VW range for example) so you should always start with your lightest posible combination of polish and pads and work your way up.

http://www.polishedbliss.co.uk/acatalog/pdfs/painthardness.pdf

MetzgerMeister

E39MSport wrote: »

@ einheisserschre, this is the DIY thread and my recommendation is to use the money that you would burn on a 'pro' to invest in your own kit and take your time with it

By it's nature, it's repeat work to a certain extent.

The net is your friend - there has to be Mazda specific info out there.

It's (paintwork correction/protection) not rocket science by any means and something that many enthusiasts are adopting.

Personally, I am very particular and find that most pros in many domains don't meet my standards.

That's not to detract from the skills and knowledge of some on here that may make a living from it.

From my experience of valeting (yes, I know detailing is different :P) I wouldn't have the patience or the facilities for doing this myself.

A chap I know who does this full time is going to do it for me at a very reasonable rate. He did his own Lexus and the results were astounding.

There's very few people I would entrust my car to and he's one of them.

I know where you are coming from though but another aspect for me is that if I were to invest in the equipment, I would hardly ever use it again. I know that this guy is good and that I wouldn't have the patience to do it myself

Also, the proper technique and skill required to do this, I don't have and takes time to build up. I wouldn't use my car as a guinea pig! This kind of job is more about technique than thick neck

TomMc

E39MS, while there is info out there on the interweb that Mazda paint is soft, this is based on general observations (call it first hand experience by detailers), buy you still have to be careful not to pigeon hole every car (including every model and every year) from the same manufacturer into the one box. It is not like cars come supplied with technical info on the exact paint type used or its characteristics, unlike say engine oil, where a specific grade is recommended for use with same.

This is something Mike Phillips (of Meguiar's then) posted a few years back. Another worthwhile read.

http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?21067-What-is-the-meaning-of-soft-paint

E39MSport

And your kind post proves my point re: internet is your friend

The more info the better - that's what this thread and hopefully sub forum should be about.

Not just specific info on cars/paints but approach/technique/knowledge sharing etc etc

Thanks.

Benny Cake

E39MSport wrote: »

And your kind post proves my point re: internet is your friend

The more info the better - that's what this thread and hopefully sub forum should be about.

Not just specific info on cars/paints but approach/technique/knowledge sharing etc etc

Thanks.

+1 on the subforum idea, deatailing is far to broad a subject to be covered in a single thread... Bought a 520d msport earlier this year and with some help from the folks over on BMWdriver.net have gotten into detailing. There's huge satisfaction to be had from working on your car for a few days and admiring the results!!!

E39MSport

Benny Cake wrote: »

+1 on the subforum idea, deatailing is far to broad a subject to be covered in a single thread... Bought a 520d msport earlier this year and with some help from the folks over on BMWdriver.net have gotten into detailing. There's huge satisfaction to be had from working on your car for a few days and admiring the results!!!

Very much so. Salivating at the prospect of watching foam envelop the E39 tomorrow hopefully

Stheno

I'm new to detailing, and would love to see a subforum dedicated to it

Owen

I don't think the guys meants subform as in lets start a separate subforum for detailing. They meant that this entire DIY area for cars subforum is a good idea.

The detailing forum would probably be quiet-ish enough. Having the sticky thread is probably the best way forward for the moment - if it explodes and has 10000 posts, then the Mods can ask for a separate forum, but I don't think that'd ever get off the ground IMHO.

vectra

vectra wrote: »

.............. If it is a clear over base then I would leave it. If it is solid color then I would be prepared to give it a go
This one..................

I'd be surprised if that wasn't clear over base tbh
The paint code might tell a lot, could well be available in only clear over base

mickdw

I thought you had a bad back vectra?