Bank of Ireland shares

John Electrician33

What date do you need to buy the shares at to get the dividend?
If I bought 10,000 euro worth just before that date and sold them a week later what approx would the dividend be and when would it be paid

Cute Hoor

John Electrician33 wrote: »

What date do you need to buy the shares at to get the dividend?
If I bought 10,000 euro worth just before that date and sold them a week later what approx would the dividend be and when would it be paid

The ex-dividend date is the 19th April
Dividend payment date is 24th May

So if you buy the shares on the 18th April and sell them on the 19th April you will qualify for the dividend.

Assuming there is no change in the share price between today's price and the price on the 18th April, you will get 1,406 shares for your 10,000 euro. This will qualify you for a dividend of 161.69 euro gross. All things being equal the BOI share price will drop by 11.5 cent (or something close to that) on 19th April, so your 1,406 shares would then be worth 9,838.31.

The above doesn't include the costs of buying and selling of course, nor the tax you would have to pay on the dividend.

Arthur Daley

garrettod wrote: »

More cost cutting on the way, with up to 200 more middle management to go....

They've had an open ended voluntary redundancy scheme open for a very long time now and haven't got enough people out, so bar compulsory redundancy I'm not sure how they'll achieve what they want this time around. Compulsory rdundancy will be opposed by unions, particularly while the bank is profitable etc.

I know it all helps the bottom line and there needs to be a bit of a clear out of old staff once every decade, but I'm starting to wonder if the new CEO has anything more in mind than cost cuts and getting the new IT system in ?

What does this save them €30 million? They then gut any experience, skills these people brought to work. The assumption is the people were contributing little or nothing. What is she making €1bn a year, and the big idea she brought over from London is to gut the middle management of the company to save €30m.

No wonder the share price is static.

garrettod

John Electrician33 wrote: »

What date do you need to buy the shares at to get the dividend? ...

Cute Hoor has already touched on this, but just to call it out even more clearly - there's an extremely high chance that the price of the share will fall, to reflect the dividend payout (so essentially, what you get in the left hand, you pay out from the right hand).

Buying a share just to collect a dividend, but intending to sell soon afterwards, makes no sense to me - risk of price dropping, cost of buy and sell, all outweigh the potential dividend payment.

Shauny2010

We will have a increase in the sp on the run up to April 19th Ex-divi date. I do suspect though that we may not get the 11.5c drop in share price the day after.
I hope to add more before then, but I am long here and also intend to reinvest the dividend back into BOI shares when its paid on the 24th of May

garrettod

Shauny2010 wrote: »

We will have a increase in the sp on the run up to April 19th Ex-divi date. I do suspect though that we may not get the 11.5c drop in share price the day after.
I hope to add more before then, but I am long here and also intend to reinvest the dividend back into BOI shares when its paid on the 24th of May

Perhaps some of the dividend has already been priced into the share price ?

Are BoI offering a reinvestment plan for the dividend ?

scheister

i decided to dip into the pool to double my holding in BOI. Bought more shares this morning for €1 less then what i paid early in the year.

Cute Hoor

garrettod wrote: »

Are BoI offering a reinvestment plan for the dividend ?

'The option to receive shares in lieu of cash is not being offered in respect of this dividend'

drunkmonkey

scheister wrote: »

i decided to dip into the pool to double my holding in BOI. Bought more shares this morning for €1 less then what i paid early in the year.

There could easily be another drop of €1 or more, heading to €6 on my charts. Summer is never good for banks and Brexit. Not liking the look of it over the next 12mts.

scheister

drunkmonkey wrote: »

There could easily be another drop of €1 or more, heading to €6 on my charts. Summer is never good for banks and Brexit. Not liking the look of it over the next 12mts.

where they are in next 12 months is not my issue where they will be in 5-10 years is more my concern so if they dip in S/T im not to worried

daheff

Dividends are taxed at your marginal rate (I believe), but CGT is at 33%...so for those looking to just get the dividend...you could (Theoretically) be worse off as you pay higher tax (if on the higher tax rate).

Benildus

Bit of a boost today (up over 3% so far) for some reason

Cute Hoor

Benildus wrote: »

Bit of a boost today (up over 3% so far) for some reason

There is green across the board today, with banks probably doing particularly well

Shauny2010

No big drop after this went ex-divi which isn't really a surprise considering it was a small one to start.

drunkmonkey

Don't hold a bank during the summer, in in green sell in May buy back in November.

Shauny2010

If you followed your own advice then you would have lost out over the Summer for the last few years.
The BOI directors have a habit of buying their shares in June. It must be part of the package they are on but when they do it always results in a jump in the share price.

littlevillage

Big fall in BOI share price today :-(

The market must be heeding DrunkMonkey ??

otterj

Whats the cause of this?

drunkmonkey

otterj wrote: »

Whats the cause of this?

Shauny decided to liquidate and buy back into the bitcoin.

Shauny2010

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Shauny decided to liquidate and buy back into the bitcoin.

Sorry con padre I've enough Bitcoin, Might liquidate a few more when it hits $10k again

Gatoh

May 25 2018
DAVY VIEW
With the publication of its FY 2017 results, Bank of Ireland (BOI) set out its three strategic priorities. We expect further elaboration of these, supported by management’s key financial targets, at the investor day on June 13th. The investor day is a significant opportunity for BOI to address investor uncertainties (transformation programme and UK operations) while setting out its medium-term investment case to increase returns above cost of capital. We believe the investor day is a key catalyst for the stock and reiterate our ‘Outperform’ rating and €8.90 price target.

Beautiful prediction..
Now we play the Waiting Game ( extended )

littlevillage

Gatoh wrote: »

May 25 2018
DAVY VIEW
With the publication of its FY 2017 results, Bank of Ireland (BOI) set out its three strategic priorities. We expect further elaboration of these, supported by management’s key financial targets, at the investor day on June 13th. The investor day is a significant opportunity for BOI to address investor uncertainties (transformation programme and UK operations) while setting out its medium-term investment case to increase returns above cost of capital. We believe the investor day is a key catalyst for the stock and reiterate our ‘Outperform’ rating and €8.90 price target.

Beautiful prediction..
Now we play the Waiting Game ( extended )

BOI used to own Davy Stockbrokers and presumably are still their Stockbroker of choice, soo can't really take anything they say about BOI with anything but a big pinch of Salt. Incidently BOI Share price fell almost 4% today :-(

garrettod

littlevillage wrote: »

BOI used to own Davy Stockbrokers and presumably are still their Stockbroker of choice, soo can't really take anything they say about BOI with anything but a big pinch of Salt. ....

Must admit, I really struggle to accept some of the price targets that come out of Davys also. The recent target for CRH being one that springs to mind.

The mere potential for a conflict of interest should be called out in big bold black print, every time Davys issue a price target on a company's share.

Pussyhands

Just found this thread.

Was the original price in 2011 7c?

How come the price hasn't recovered majorly since the crash?

Looking at the full graph of it's lifetime, the line has been a bottom flat one since 2010/11.

garrettod

Pussyhands wrote: »

....How come the price hasn't recovered majorly since the crash? ....

To be honest, looking at recent years history doesn't really help here for a few reasons:

- the sever recession and related loan losses
- the banking crisis and resulting lack of funding etc.
- the state taking a sizeable minority position in the bank
- the share consolidation exercise, which distorts the share price

The share price is based on such things as future income streams discounted back to current values, the potential for capital growth, along with a bit of hope value (hope that it might merge / be taken over, or make an important acquisition for example).

The Bank is facing some serious challenges, that have influenced and will continue to influence it's share price significantly over the next couple of years:

- Brexit and it's sizeable exposure to the UK
- It's need to radically upgrade it's IT systems
- It's need to restructure, to include cost cutting, branch closures and redirecting business online
- Industry threats (dig out Porter's Five Forces if you want to give this one some consideration )

...no doubt I'm forgetting other important things here (and I'm also assuming the level of revenue and profits in Ireland don't drop), but that should give you some idea of what I'm getting at.

I'd be looking at comparisons with how other Banks of similar size in Ireland, and across the EU are doing. I'd be looking at things like their Dividend Yield if they pay dividends, their cost to income ratios, or their share price growth year on year (keeping in mind their dividend policy) etc.

kenyard

Pussyhands wrote: »

How come the price hasn't recovered majorly since the crash?

Looking at the full graph of it's lifetime, the line has been a bottom flat one since 2010/11.

Why would it? Their valuation was reasonably fair last i looked.
Their forward outlook is probably fairly uncertain. Irish banks will have 20 more years of tracker mortgages. A portion owned by the govt. Still fairly strict regulation. And boi is way behind aib and others on the tech front (nfc phone payments etc)
Also any actual profitd they make will be paid as a dividend so its not like the company value will increase massively since profits go to the investor.
The only thing the could benefit from is a merger/buyout imo for a share price jump.
If i was signing up to a bank and did a review of options it wouldnt be them.
The share price before the crash was just stupidly over inflated.

Positives? Probable rate hikes coming, Lending is booming in ireland, buyout possible. I can see them paying a decent dividend in the coming years.

Negatives? Above listed + italy teetering on brink of bankruptcy. Also spain, greece.

garrettod

kenyard wrote: »

....I can see them paying a decent dividend in the coming years..

Just for fun, what are you thinking in terms of Div Yield ?

Personally, I don't think it's going to be very high - they need to put a lot of dosh into IT for example, so I only see them paying out 30%-40% of after tax earnings by way of dividend. I expect reasonable growth in earnings for the next few years, but don't anticipate anything more than that, so all in all, I'd be surprised if the Yield is more than 2.50% - 3.00% pa in the next 5 years.

If someone is looking for high Dividend Yields, then I'd not be looking at the Irish Banks for the next few years. Banks in other parts of the EU will be more suitable. Lloyds in the UK for example are paying circa 6% pa, but I acknowledge that there's a currency risk to consider there (and they are heavily exposed to the UK economy).

Gatoh

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/time-to-sell-more-bank-shares-hayes-36996330.html

Finally some positive news

garrettod

Gatoh wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/time-to-sell-more-bank-shares-hayes-36996330.html

Finally some positive news

Hi,

Why do you think that's good news exactly ?

From my read of that article, it's only a Fine Gael MEP calling for a change in the agreement between FF and FG, to permit the government sell more shares (which could be a difficult one for FG to get agreement on, given FF won't want to give FG additional spending power etc.)

We need to keep clear in our heads the price that the government actually paid for both banks and what remains due to us. In the case of BoI, I think it would be appropriate to divest of the final shares held by the state (and also think, it might result in a small net positive return for the country). However, for AIB, there is no way in hell we should be divesting at this stage, as if we do, we only crystalise a loss of €3bn plus on the overall amount that Ireland put in, to save the Bank !

garrettod

Recent news was not entirely unexpected....

• IT costs going to be more than initially anticipated
• More cost cutting on the way
  

I've mixed views about their ambition to see circa 33% growth from the UK market. On the one hand, the Bank has a strong base there, and with legislation, language etc. it looks like an obvious place to push for growth. However, on the other hand, with risks associated with Brexit (regulation, recession etc.) I'd have concerns as to what the UK can deliver for BoI in the next few years - unless it can buy a small business at a decent price and perhaps get some synergy from the transaction ?

If there was any sort of reasonable channel available to the Bank to help them grow a business in one of the Western European (EU member) countries, I'd far rather see them trying to make inroads there tbh. A small business in the likes of Holland, Luxemburg, Brussels, Germany etc. would probably offer far more stability over the next few years.