Bank of Ireland shares

birdmany

Thinking of buying Bank of Ireland shares with a 25 year time horizon. Is this wise?

Can anyone tell me their book value at the moment?

Thargor

I love these threads

martyoo

I love these threads

These threads used to annoy me but I am actually starting to enjoy them!

HeidiHeidi

You can have mine for free - which is about all they're worth at the moment!!! I fear it may take longer than 25 years for them to recover.....:eek:

ETA - €0.07 as of today..... FFS!

SyntonFenix

birdmany wrote: »

Thinking of buying Bank of Ireland shares with a 25 year time horizon. Is this wise?

Can anyone tell me their book value at the moment?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZowKXiPdk6c&feature=player_embedded#!

http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2011/11/23/this-cannot-go-on-and-it-wont-change-is-coming

I'd buy about €50 worth of BoI shares as a novelty bet

Soulja boy

birdmany wrote: »

Thinking of buying Bank of Ireland shares with a 25 year time horizon. Is this wise?

Can anyone tell me their book value at the moment?

Your timeframe gives a lot of room for recovery, there are better investments out there. Just dont be dissapointed if a year or two down the line they are worth half of what you invested.

ROK ON

The tangible book value is 27 cents.

In terms of pure speculation I think it is rather appealing. Purely binary. If EZ fails then it will more than likley be one of very very many banks that will go under.

However IMHO, the balance sheet and equity (along with contingent capital raised) is more than enough for my worse case scenario.

Two recent positives for me were the sale of some UK assets and the securitization of a UK loan book. These all help in running down the crazy funding mismatch that the bank has. Dont forget that the guaranteed funding from the state is a huge drain on profitability, so the sooner they can get off that the better from a profitability point of view (dont count your chickens just yet though).

Deposit funding seems to have stopped falling. It now needs to show some traction in ncreasing over the next few years.

What is interesting about nearly all banks at the present, is that prior to the 2000's Net Interest Margins in nearly all institutions globally were much fatter than they are today. If we ever get back to that type of margin environment, then that level of profitability is not being priced into to any bank that I can see presently.

Despite all of that warm fuzzy stuff, it is still very much a binary bet. At some time in the future it will trade at or above book value, or it will tarde at zero.

The underlying level of bad debts in BKIR's books is not deteriorating in the way that is happening at RBS, Danske;s NIB or at KBC. BKIR have always had the reputation of being better than the rest in terms of credit quality. This is also the case with the UK buy to let book, which is one of the better UK BTL books out there at present.

As I said, a decent speculative bet. Worth €0.3 or €0.0 IMHO.

Trader1991

birdmany wrote: »

Thinking of buying Bank of Ireland shares with a 25 year time horizon. Is this wise?

Can anyone tell me their book value at the moment?

Would you not prefer to find a company that actually looks descent on paper in terms of value and isn't riddled with debt and corruption. Like I cant understand how people still think BOI is worthy of investment.

Gandalph

No the shares are worth like 1 cent and you're paying 7 times their value for them

willietherock

Fairfax appear to be buying all the while. A ringing endorsement?

justforgroups

There was something mentioned in the forthcoming budget of an explicit tax on dividends? Would make investing even more unattractive then it is at the moment I think.

Raskolnikov

justforgroups wrote: »

There was something mentioned in the forthcoming budget of an explicit tax on dividends? Would make investing even more unattractive then it is at the moment I think.

You already pay tax on dividends at the higher rate in this country. Anyway, Bank of Ireland won't be paying dividends for years.

willietherock

Raskolnikov wrote: »

You already pay tax on dividends at the higher rate in this country. Anyway, Bank of Ireland won't be paying dividends for years.

What's your view on BOI shares?

Raskolnikov

willietherock wrote: »

What's your view on BOI shares?

Well, I think the good news is that the really heavy dilution has probably passed. The bad news is that they are going to be deleveraging until 2014. That means a smaller loan book and smaller profits. Realistically, I think normalised profits are going to be in the €500 million region (as opposed to €2 billion boom-time profits). That puts Bank of Ireland at 2x the current market cap, a price you might see in three years time, assuming the arse doesn't further fall out of the Irish property market. I think there's too much risk for only an ok return, especialy when Bank of America is valued at roughly the same price as Bank of Ireland, but has much better upside and more protection (US gov as opposed to IE gov).

Sonnenblumen

SyntonFenix wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZowKXiPdk6c&feature=player_embedded#!

http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2011/11/23/this-cannot-go-on-and-it-wont-change-is-coming

I'd buy about €50 worth of BoI shares as a novelty bet

€50 gets you into the disco but no mon for fun. But €5k would buy you plenty of future promise.;)

justforgroups

Raskolnikov wrote: »

You already pay tax on dividends at the higher rate in this country. Anyway, Bank of Ireland won't be paying dividends for years.

Please read what I posted more carefully. I said an explicit tax on dividends, i.e. in addition to income tax.

And who knows - maybe a tax on just owning shares is coming in, so it doesn't matter whether you get a dividend or not - the government gets its money either way.

willietherock

discussion on BOI V American Banks as investments about 10 mins in.

http://www.valueinvestingworld.com/2011/11/manual-of-ideas-interview-with-guy.html

SyntonFenix

In other words, don't.

Unless you're into high risk.

shangri la

birdmany wrote: »

Thinking of buying Bank of Ireland shares with a 25 year time horizon. Is this wise?

why?

Sonnenblumen

willietherock wrote: »

discussion on BOI V American Banks as investments about 10 mins in.

http://www.valueinvestingworld.com/2011/11/manual-of-ideas-interview-with-guy.html

God the guy being interviewed likes the smell of his own steam?:(

Sonnenblumen

shangri la wrote: »

why?

It's a bit like relying on traffic signs to advise on road conditions etc. Others are quite comfortable with own intuitive skills to see the lie of the land and make any adjustments accordingly.

I guess we'll not know for several years, but one could do a lot worse than not buying BoI now?

shangri la

birdmany wrote: »

Thinking of buying Bank of Ireland shares with a 25 year time horizon. Is this wise?

Can anyone tell me their book value at the moment?

do you think there are better mainstream investments to be had?

iamfromcork

I'm going buying aib and boi share ,looking at keeping for 15 to 25 years.know it's very High risk but what the hell. Love the long shot.

neil.p.b

iamfromcork wrote: »

I'm going buying aib and boi share ,looking at keeping for 15 to 25 years.know it's very High risk but what the hell. Love the long shot.

AIBs current share price values it higher than it was at its peak in 2007!! Seems ridiculous right? Now take into account that it also no longer owns any of its profitable foreign businesses that used to make up a huge amount of its worth.

There are MUCH better risk/reward shares out there.

ranger4

SP Broke through resistance and sp showing signs of recovery as europrats-ecb finaly getting house in order.

Tiesto

ranger4 wrote: »

SP Broke through resistance and sp showing signs of recovery as europrats-ecb finaly getting house in order.

Thanks, will buy right now!!
:rolleyes:

alan26092

Excuse my ignorance but I'm going to ask anyway...

In September 2011 BOI shares were trading at €0.07 per share. Today they're trading at €0.14 per share.

If I had bought €5k worth of shares in September would they now be worth €10k?

christeb

alan26092 wrote: »

Excuse my ignorance but I'm going to ask anyway...

In September 2011 BOI shares were trading at €0.07 per share. Today they're trading at €0.14 per share.

If I had bought €5k worth of shares in September would they now be worth €10k?

Yes

Soulja boy

... but minus tax and fees.

iamfromcork

I only bought 15000 shares at boi and 15000 shares at aib when i last posted here (people telling me i was mad made me buy less), both are doing pretty well and as i said its a long term investment 20/25 years

iamfromcork

I have that aib Goodbody account but it won't let me buy chinese or russian stock ,any tips lads

patwicklow

buy loads of em dont worry u will get bailed out:rolleyes:

iamfromcork

thats what i was thinking lol .

Sonnenblumen

alan26092 wrote: »

Excuse my ignorance but I'm going to ask anyway...

In September 2011 BOI shares were trading at €0.07 per share. Today they're trading at €0.14 per share.

If I had bought €5k worth of shares in September would they now be worth €10k?

Mad isn't it, nothing like making easy money? Don't take my word listen to the experts who advised not to at 7c and now at 14c!! Plenty of opps with BoI shares.

Canadel

So BOI shares doing quite well. 40 cent high this year and currently at 27 cent.

Could be up to a euro by 2020.

Sonnenblumen

Canadel wrote: »

So BOI shares doing quite well. 40 cent high this year and currently at 27 cent.

Could be up to a euro by 2020.

Yes!! Having lost a chunk with the original bank crash, bought plenty new @ 7 cent and 12 cent. Well into the black now

I think it'll be a while to reach € 1.00 but who's in a hurry? Divi's next year ?

daheff

Canadel wrote: »

So BOI shares doing quite well. 40 cent high this year and currently at 27 cent.

Could be up to a euro by 2020.

I think they are undervalued currently. I think 40c-45c with divs is a fair price.

down 22% YTD though.

Hollister11

Any opinions on these as a long term investment. i'm 20, and i want to invest 2k into them now.

Sonnenblumen

Hollister11 wrote: »

Any opinions on these as a long term investment. i'm 20, and i want to invest 2k into them now.

It's an independent (original state funding more or less repaid) Pillar Bank, as the Irish economy improves, it is reasonable certainty so too will the fortunes of pillar banks. BoI is unquestionably the lead player (of all home players) and will remain so for a considerable period.

I think it a no brainer, that even a punt of € 2k will yield rich rewards eventually.

Remember me when you've made it big !:D

newacc2015

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

It's an independent (original state funding more or less repaid) Pillar Bank, as the Irish economy improves, it is reasonable certainty so too will the fortunes of pillar banks. BoI is unquestionably the lead player (of all home players) and will remain so for a considerable period.

I think it a no brainer, that even a punt of € 2k will yield rich rewards eventually.

Remember me when you've made it big !:D

They have a sizeable operation in the UK too. Although that could a double edged sword considering how overpriced the UK property market is though. They are actively reducing their LTV on new mortgages in the UK to limit their risk

callaway92

newacc2015 wrote: »

They have a sizeable operation in the UK too. Although that could a double edged sword considering how overpriced the UK property market is though. They are actively reducing their LTV on new mortgages in the UK to limit their risk

They already have almost 1% of current mortgages in the UK and are pretty much making more there than they are here at the moment with the partnership with Post Office. All good so far anyway but like you said, it could work both ways.

Spirogyra

In event of brexit,would boi shares suffer?

newacc2015

Spirogyra wrote: »

In event of brexit,would boi shares suffer?

Probably. But the way the shares are getting hammered with the poll during the week, Brexit might be pretty much priced into the share price

chair28

where can you buy shares? how do you go about buying some?im new to this

Hollister11

I hope these shares keep on dropping.

I'll buy some if they reach 15c, if they go to 10, it's worth a few grand.

Chiarrai92

Hollister11 wrote: »

I hope these shares keep on dropping.

Absolutely! Iv been watching a number of shares myself for a first dip into the stock markets. I only have 5-6k The plan was to spread the money between 3-4 diferent companys but if the price keeps droping il put 2-3k into BoI. With dividend on the way in the next year or two you cant go wrong can you?

Also i assume the week the uk goes to the polls would be a good week to buy?

alb

Bought some yesterday at .22

BrokenArrows

alb wrote: »

Bought some yesterday at .22

a tidy 10% in a day

banie01

alb wrote: »

Bought some yesterday at .22

I piled in a bit yesterday at 0.22 aswell. I was holding a long term loss on an ETF that was trading at its level and showing no signs or reason to hope for a recovery to near what was paid.
Sold them at a loss of @40% over what I'd paid, now that said the dividend return over the time I'd held it meant total was only @20%.
Piled it all into BOI as a longterm hold, wasn't expecting to see such an uptick already nor do i expect it to swing up in any meaningful fashion til at least 2017 and the return of a dividend
I'm happy to let it sit, if I could get lower ISE trading costs however I'd probably consider a few flips to crystalize any gains.

cherrytaz

As expected Brexit playing havoc with the markets, Bank of Ireland down almost 25%

popa smurf

cherrytaz wrote: »

As expected Brexit playing havoc with the markets, Bank of Ireland down almost 25%

The bit I don't understand who would go out and sell shares today