Cheltenham Ante Post Pick

UrbanSea

Binocular had a wind op. Could well see improvement from him.

Article on Gigginstown and not running in the bumper http://www.irishracing.com/v5newsitem?prt=L&prid=58312

Hulk Hands

Ah flip. No harm done anyway. Un Atout one to keep in the notebook

Colonel Sanders

newuser89 wrote: »

Un atout is gigginstown horse I taught
They won't run there horses in the cheltenham bumper as they think it ruins them

Yeah O'Leary doesn't seem to like the race at all

Juwwi

The Champion Chase is the most interesting ante post market imo.

SE will be 10 in march and BZ will be 11 and they both take up alot of the market.

Wishfull Thinking is 25/1 in Boyles or Finians Rainbow 7/1 in PP are both tempting me at the odds.

Morgans

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

Yeah O'Leary doesn't seem to like the race at all

The punchestown bumper is worth more and you are taking on horses that may have had to burst their guts at Cheltenham. I think the policy makes far greater sense.

hucklebuck

I remember hearing that last year just after I stuck a big bet on Samain for the Chelt Bumper.

Plenty of decent Cheltenham Bumper winners don't seem to go on to do much. On that note, Cue Card looked very impressive last week.

I am still very tempted to back Walkon wherever he ends up, he seemed to be travelling well when going over a fence almost sideways and then clattered another one, very catching on his first race over fences and he likes Cheltenham.

mdwexford

robbie1977 wrote: »

The Champion Chase is the most interesting ante post market imo.

SE will be 10 in march and BZ will be 11 and they both take up alot of the market.

Wishfull Thinking is 25/1 in Boyles or Finians Rainbow 7/1 in PP are both tempting me at the odds.

Yeah Id be against the top 2 as well.

Victor Chandler next weekend will tell us a bit more.

Hulk Hands

robbie1977 wrote: »

The Champion Chase is the most interesting ante post market imo.

SE will be 10 in march and BZ will be 11 and they both take up alot of the market.

Wishfull Thinking is 25/1 in Boyles or Finians Rainbow 7/1 in PP are both tempting me at the odds.

I wouldn't rule out Captain Cee Bee at big odds yet. He was third last year and would have been a lot closer had he not hit a couple down the back and killed his momentum. I know he's getting on a bit but so are the front 2 in the market and there's a big price disparity there with big zeb for a couple of lengths. Hopefully he can be brought fresh to the festival like he was when he won the supreme novices a few years back

Harry Angstrom

I've just been watching the RPTV ante-post preview of the Champion Hurdle. I can't believe that Tom Segal put up Oscars Well for this one !!! That horse won't come within an ass's roar of winning a Champion Hurdle.

I really don't see the point in him tipping a big priced horse just for the sake of tipping a big priced horse. The fact that Oscars Well is now only 16/1 for the Champion Hurdle is purely down to Segal tipping it. He should be at least a 33/1 shot for the Champion Hurdle, considering his form so far this season.

Huntey

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

I've just been watching the RPTV ante-post preview of the Champion Hurdle. I can't believe that Tom Segal put up Oscars Well for this one !!! That horse won't come within an ass's roar of winning a Champion Hurdle.

I really don't see the point in him tipping a big priced horse just for the sake of tipping a big priced horse. The fact that Oscars Well is now only 16/1 for the Champion Hurdle is purely down to Segal tipping it. He should be at least a 33/1 shot for the Champion Hurdle, considering his form so far this season.

He has been coming along nicely but I agree, you need to have true speed to win a Champion Hurdle.

I have narrowed it down to Zarakander, Spirit Son, Grandouet, Hurricane Fly. I would be shocked should the winner come from outside that bunch.

billy87

Huntey wrote: »

He has been coming along nicely but I agree, you need to have true speed to win a Champion Hurdle.

I have narrowed it down to Zarakander, Spirit Son, Grandouet, Hurricane Fly. I would be shocked should the winner come from outside that bunch.

Good man you narrowed it down to the front four in the market.:rolleyes: Must have taken you ages.

Hulk Hands

Huntey wrote: »

He has been coming along nicely but I agree, you need to have true speed to win a Champion Hurdle.

I have narrowed it down to Zarakander, Spirit Son, Grandouet, Hurricane Fly. I would be shocked should the winner come from outside that bunch.

I can't see why you would pick Zarkandar and Grandouet and not unaccompanied. She beat Grandouet fair and square last year, was only just behind Zarkandar and looks to have improved. You talk about true speed, well there's no more true speed in the race than beating St. Nicholas Abbey over 1m 2f. Outside of the fly, she's my idea of an each way bet at 14's. Actually can't understand how Grandouet is half her price

convert

Let's remember to attack the post, not the poster.

Play nice, folks.

mdwexford

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

I've just been watching the RPTV ante-post preview of the Champion Hurdle. I can't believe that Tom Segal put up Oscars Well for this one !!! That horse won't come within an ass's roar of winning a Champion Hurdle.

I really don't see the point in him tipping a big priced horse just for the sake of tipping a big priced horse. The fact that Oscars Well is now only 16/1 for the Champion Hurdle is purely down to Segal tipping it. He should be at least a 33/1 shot for the Champion Hurdle, considering his form so far this season.

People say that about a lot of his tips yet he consistently gets big prices winners. He sees things other people dont. Not saying I fancy OW either but I wouldnt be so bullish saying Segal is wrong.

Grandouet looks to have improved tons this season, more than Unaccompanied. I couldnt see a 5yo mare winning the Champion Hurdle tbh.

Sprit Son and Zarkander would be the two I like the most at the moment although it is worrying not to have seen them.

Huntey

Hulk Hands wrote: »

I can't see why you would pick Zarkandar and Grandouet and not unaccompanied.

Personal opinion but there is definitely enough about her to make a claim. However, should the four I mentioned make it there, I cannot see her winning the Champion Hurdle.

Hulk Hands wrote: »

She beat Grandouet fair and square last year, was only just behind Zarkandar and looks to have improved.

I wouldn't say that the Triumph is a true reflection considering she probably had the race run to suit and Grandouet most definitely did not as he hit the front too soon.

Furthermore you seem to have discounted the Punchestown festival when she was blown out of the water but she was probably over the top at that stage.

Hulk Hands wrote: »

You talk about true speed, well there's no more true speed in the race than beating St. Nicholas Abbey over 1m 2f.

I wouldn't really be taking great notice of that race, she beat an unfit St. Nic who was out for no more than a gallop. The second was an average handicapper/poor Grade 3 horse who wouldn't get within 20 lengths of St.Nic on his day.

Massive difference beating a fully tuned St.Nic as opposed to beating what she did that day.

Hulk Hands wrote: »

Outside of the fly, she's my idea of an each way bet at 14's. Actually can't understand how Grandouet is half her price

Fair enough, I personally don't see Unnacompanied winning the CH and would be pretty shocked if she did. I wouldn't even have her beating Quevega in the DN mares for what it is worth.

newuser89

Just about unaccompanied
Was thousand stars not giving her 7 pounds or so in that race and would he have to give it again in champ hurdle.
If off levels thousand stars would be ahead of unaccompanied,not that I think thousand stars will win but could get a place

ste2010

newuser89 wrote: »

Just about unaccompanied
Was thousand stars not giving her 7 pounds or so in that race and would he have to give it again in champ hurdle.
If off levels thousand stars would be ahead of unaccompanied,not that I think thousand stars will win but could get a place

Not to mention the distance of the race in leop is shorter than the chelt trip. thousand stars would have caught unaccompanied if it was same distance as champ hurdle. But then again it might have been run a little differently.
Have a look at spirit sons race in aintree last year..that plus nicky hendersons comments about it being the special one of the trio is enough for me to back it ante post..now I'm just hoping it doesn't flop before it gets there..

Harry Angstrom

ste2010 wrote: »

Not to mention the distance of the race in leop is shorter than the chelt trip. thousand stars would have caught unaccompanied if it was same distance as champ hurdle. But then again it might have been run a little differently.
Have a look at spirit sons race in aintree last year..that plus nicky hendersons comments about it being the special one of the trio is enough for me to back it ante post..now I'm just hoping it doesn't flop before it gets there..

I always think that course/festival form is vital at Cheltenham. Zarkandar flattened Unaccompanied and Grandouet in last year's Triumph. I think he'll do the same in the Champion Hurdle, although he might have to settle for a place behind the Hurricane. I have a feeling that Unaccompanied might be better around an easier track and I'm not convinced that Grandouet will get up the hill either. There's a big difference between winning a Bula and winning the real thing. Spirit Son was beaten fair and square by Al Ferof in last year's Supreme. Nicholls went straight novice chasing with Al Ferof, presumably because he didn't think he'd be anywhere close to being good enough to winning a Champion Hurdle.

Huntey

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

I'm not convinced that Grandouet will get up the hill either. There's a big difference between winning a Bula and winning the real thing.

Not sure about this Harry. Grandouet has shown to have matured enough to have handled Cheltenham fine, if he doesn't win the CH it won't have anything to do with the hill.

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

Spirit Son was beaten fair and square by Al Ferof in last year's Supreme. Nicholls went straight novice chasing with Al Ferof, presumably because he didn't think he'd be anywhere close to being good enough to winning a Champion Hurdle.

Al Ferof was a P2P winner and was always going to go chasing.

I think the most ridiculous price of all is Binocular at 10's. Unless they put an engine in when he had that breathing operation then he won't be winning any Champion Hurdle.

Hulk Hands

mdwexford wrote: »

Grandouet looks to have improved tons this season, more than Unaccompanied.

I disagree. Each to their own but im going to take a beating of thousand stars as better form than a beating of overturn all day long.


To the person that said thousand stars would catch her over the extra furlong, I think she was idling in front the last day. Also she stayed out c& d well enough last year. As far as I know, TS gave her 10lb last time and will have to give 7 at Cheltenham.

Another factor that might cost her triumph rivals a small degree is that they will likely be without Ruby and Gerathy. Doesn't matter who replaces them, it's a negative.

I don't even fancy unaccompanied much really, just am perplexed as to why Grandouet is less than half her price. Grandouet is this year's Menorah for me and ill lay if he's 5s or less on the day

Huntey

Hulk Hands wrote: »

I don't even fancy unaccompanied much really, just am perplexed as to why Grandouet is less than half her price. Grandouet is this year's Menorah for me and ill lay if he's 5s or less on the day

Menorah doesn't have the toe for two miles and you are suggesting Grandouet is the equivalent this year? Pretty absurd in my book.

He is a speed horse through and through, one thing for certain is he won't be caught for toe.

Hulk Hands

Huntey wrote: »

Menorah doesn't have the toe for two miles and you are suggesting Grandouet is the equivalent this year? Pretty absurd in my book.

He is a speed horse through and through, one thing for certain is he won't be caught for toe.

Menorah looked like he had plenty of toe last year when beating the novice Cue Card in the Bula. See the similarity? English horse wins a couple of races in England impressively beating sub-standard opposition. Becomes all the rage for the champion. I think the outcome will be the same

Morgans

Hulk Hands wrote: »

I disagree. Each to their own but im going to take a beating of thousand stars as better form than a beating of overturn all day long.


To the person that said thousand stars would catch her over the extra furlong, I think she was idling in front the last day. Also she stayed out c& d well enough last year. As far as I know, TS gave her 10lb last time and will have to give 7 at Cheltenham.

Another factor that might cost her triumph rivals a small degree is that they will likely be without Ruby and Gerathy. Doesn't matter who replaces them, it's a negative.

I don't even fancy unaccompanied much really, just am perplexed as to why Grandouet is less than half her price. Grandouet is this year's Menorah for me and ill lay if he's 5s or less on the day

I have backed Unaccompanied at 33s after being very impressed with her win first time back this year. Im happy with that, and may lay off before the Irish champion. I think she has improved plenty this year, and I dont think Thousand Stars was flying at her at the finish at leopardstown. Staying on is all.

Comparing form is tricky on a admittedly tenuous line through Moon Dice and Brampour, she is ahead of Grandouet this year. I think its far from certain that Grandouet would have won the hurdle at leopardstown at Christmas. Thought the field was a lot stronger than the Bula. Menorah was joint fav... I like the horse and backed him at Aintree when he fell, and I dont thought he was just beginning to niggle at the time. People seem to think now that he would have hacked up.

I think Spirit Son is still the obvious alternative to the favourite.

Rastapitts

Son Amix

ft9

Rastapitts wrote: »

Son Amix

What about him?

Huntey

Hulk Hands wrote: »

Menorah looked like he had plenty of toe last year when beating the novice Cue Card in the Bula. See the similarity? English horse wins a couple of races in England impressively beating sub-standard opposition. Becomes all the rage for the champion. I think the outcome will be the same

The only similarity I see is that they both won the Bula.

If you think that Grandouet is not good enough to win I could accept that view as he definitely has to prove himself against top class Grade 1 horses.

However, telling me he will be the next Menorah is wrong, Grandouet is a speed horse through and through. Menorah was more a course specialist and doesn't have the toe for 2 miles on good ground, something which will not affect Grandouet.

Hulk Hands

Huntey wrote: »

However, telling me he will be the next Menorah is wrong, Grandouet is a speed horse through and through. Menorah was more a course specialist and doesn't have the toe for 2 miles on good ground, something which will not affect Grandouet.

Fair enough, I meant purely that their hype/build up's were similar, I didn't mean in attributes etc.

Who do people think will ride Zarkandar and Grandouet in the likely event that Ruby and BJ are gone? I'm running through riders in my head and the next best I can think of that would be free would be someone like Paddy Brennan. Carberry to pick up a spare? I wouldn't be too enthused by seeing Daryl Jacob get the leg upon Zarkandar

Huntey

Hulk Hands wrote: »

Fair enough, I meant purely that their hype/build up's were similar, I didn't mean in attributes etc.

Ah ya fair enough I thought you meant in a literal sense.

Hulk Hands wrote: »

Who do people think will ride Zarkandar and Grandouet in the likely event that Ruby and BJ are gone? I'm running through riders in my head and the next best I can think of that would be free would be someone like Paddy Brennan. Carberry to pick up a spare? I wouldn't be too enthused by seeing Daryl Jacob get the leg upon Zarkandar

Carberry would probably be perfect for Grandouet but I don't know. With the possibility that Nicholls will send all 3 then maybe Noel Fehily would get something with Jacob and Derham.

gudede

Hulk Hands wrote: »

I wouldn't be too enthused by seeing Daryl Jacob get the leg upon Zarkandar

I want Jacob on him, taught he gave the horse great rides last year, and I think he will be on him, to me it seems that Ruby doesn't rate this horse and if the fly isn't running then I think he'll be on Rock on Ruby.

premierstone

Have it on a fairly reliable word that the Fly wont run this year