GAA Infastructure

Hibbeler

The U-21 all Ireland final next weekend is moved from Navan to Parnell Park due to "remedial works" being required in Pairc Tailteann.

You'd have to wonder why PT is suddenly deemed unsafe now while only a few weeks ago it hosted a large crowd for the league match against Cavan. It would make you wonder if there is something that we are not being told about the place.

And will this affect Meath's first home match in the Leinster championship in 20 years

threeball

Hibbeler wrote: »

The U-21 all Ireland final next weekend is moved from Navan to Parnell Park due to "remedial works" being required in Pairc Tailteann.

You'd have to wonder why PT is suddenly deemed unsafe now while only a few weeks ago it hosted a large crowd for the league match against Cavan. It would make you wonder if there is something that we are not being told about the place.

And will this affect Meath's first home match in the Leinster championship in 20 years

Won't be long now til they want to throw up a 30,000 "all seater" just to keep up with the Joneses. Leitrim with a population of 32,000 will also want one soon after.

ArmaniJeanss

The system of fixture allocation is biased towards putting matches on in grounds that are capable of hosting the crowd that wants to attend. This is largely laudable but by definition it incentives the building of larger stadiums otherwise you don't get home games in the Championship, or may go many years without such.

Only if the GAA come up with official minimum capacity sizes and standards (set in stone for say 30 years) and guarantee that you will be allowed host the match if you meet the capacity in a safe well appointed environment - only then will counties be willing to invest in sensible smaller stadiums.

I'd have in mind something like 10,000 up to provincial quarter final and first 2 rounds of qualifers, 15K or 20K for up to provincial semifinal and third round of qualifiers, 25K for final round of qualifiers and to be on a potential provincial final rota.
And if the first round draw comes up Louth v Dublin then as long as Louth have the 10K stadium then they get to host. That 35,000 from Dublin want to go needn't be a factor.

Ultimately imo you can't really blame the counties for overbuilding under the current system.

threeball

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

The system of fixture allocation is biased towards putting matches on in grounds that are capable of hosting the crowd that wants to attend. This is largely laudable but by definition it incentives the building of larger stadiums otherwise you don't get home games in the Championship, or may go many years without such.

Only if the GAA come up with official minimum capacity sizes and standards (set in stone for say 30 years) and guarantee that you will be allowed host the match if you meet the capacity in a safe well appointed environment - only then will counties be willing to invest in sensible smaller stadiums.

I'd have in mind something like 10,000 up to provincial quarter final and first 2 rounds of qualifers, 15K or 20K for up to provincial semifinal and third round of qualifiers, 25K for final round of qualifiers and to be on a potential provincial final rota.
And if the first round draw comes up Louth v Dublin then as long as Louth have the 10K stadium then they get to host. That 35,000 from Dublin want to go needn't be a factor.

Ultimately imo you can't really blame the counties for overbuilding under the current system.

It was for this reason that I suggested centralising a high quality stadium within a province and playing all championship games that warrant it in that venue with smaller games in the high quality 10,000 seater stadiums designed mainly to accommodate league matches. You may not want to go back and demolish existing white elephants but you can certainly stop the madness of Cork, Ennis, Mullingar, Casement and the others that will follow.

Pete_Cavan

New Offaly Centre of Excellence;

http://www.the42.ie/offaly-gaa-centre-of-excellence-kilcormac-2105849-May2015/





999-year lease for €1 per year, cant argue about value for money there.

Interesting that the article also mentions Laois Centre of Excellence is that to be developed at the old Portlaoise GAA grounds next to O'Moore Park? If so will be interesting to see what they plan to do there.

GoldFour4

The lads down in Cork might take note of the 4 pitches in that centre of excellence. Fair play to Offaly, that looks like a solid design.

nice_guy80

malistheman wrote: »

The lads down in Cork might take note of the 4 pitches in that centre of excellence. Fair play to Offaly, that looks like a solid design.

No ball wall!
For a county with a proud hurling tradition and with Banagher Concrete in the county supplying them.

no small viewing stand so club games and inter county games can be hosted. Even if it was a stage 2 or stage 3 in the development.

salmocab

Looks nice and all but is it just a training centre for offaly teams? Would money not be better spent on doing up a few existing clubs and using them for training on? It looks basically like a club without a bar and no proper viewing areas. What counties already have these centers of excellence?

CrabRevolution

Always thought "Centres of Excellence" was a funny name for them, since they're the exact same as a normal club grounds, only its the county board that owns them. It's not like anything particularly excellent goes on in them. "Training Centre" would be more appropriate title.

Also I'd say most counties have them at this stage. Meath, Louth, Kildare, Monaghan, Tyrone, Derry, Carlow, and Mayo do at the very least.

In typical Galway fashion they reckoned they needed 2, one for hurling and one for football. The football centre was built and completed in Loughgeorge near Claregalway. The site was bought for a hurling one for several million, as the costs spiralled the project was abandoned, resulting in a loss of about €3 Million for Galway CB.

Mal-Adjusted

Clare has one as well just outside Tulla

Pete_Cavan

Kerry at it this time;

http://www.livegaelic.com/features/kerry-get-massive-international-backing-for-centre-of-excellence/



Seems a bit OTT to be honest, do they really need to have two gyms and seven pitches across two locations?

ciarriaithuaidh

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Kerry at it this time;

http://www.livegaelic.com/features/kerry-get-massive-international-backing-for-centre-of-excellence/



Seems a bit OTT to be honest, do they really need to have two gyms and seven pitches across two locations?

What 2 gyms are you on about? There is no gym at the site pictured in your post.
All Indoor facilities are at IT Tralee, where the new Kerry Sports Academy is being built and several organisations will have the use of all indoor facilities.

Just as a matter of interest, what would you consider adequate facilities to allow upwards of 20 teams to train/play 12 months a year?

The Lost Sheep

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Kerry at it this time;

http://www.livegaelic.com/features/kerry-get-massive-international-backing-for-centre-of-excellence/



Seems a bit OTT to be honest, do they really need to have two gyms and seven pitches across two locations?

At what exactly?
Why do they not need all those pitches considering all their county teams etc and these allow training/development on a full time basis

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

What 2 gyms are you on about? There is no gym at the site pictured in your post.
All Indoor facilities are at IT Tralee, where the new Kerry Sports Academy is being built and several organisations will have the use of all indoor facilities.

Just as a matter of interest, what would you consider adequate facilities to allow upwards of 20 teams to train/play 12 months a year?

Read the link and I assume the gym is part of clubhouse in the pic above...

CrabRevolution

Kerry must be awash with money. Nice big training facilities in the works, and already have 2 fairly good county grounds. Funny that their secondary ground is still better than our main one.

threeball

Armaghs ground being used now in the Donegal Armagh game is the perfect example of everythinga county ground should be. Reasonably sized, nice close stands, well appointed terraces and a quality playing surface. If more counties had grounds like this our games would be played in a fantastic atmosphere no matter what stage of the year it was.

J Cheever Loophole

threeball wrote: »

Armaghs ground being used now in the Donegal Armagh game is the perfect example of everythinga county ground should be. Reasonably sized, nice close stands, well appointed terraces and a quality playing surface. If more counties had grounds like this our games would be played in a fantastic atmosphere no matter what stage of the year it was.

Thanks for that - if only we could get a team to match!! :rolleyes:

I am biased, but I genuinely believe that our ground is the best in Ireland at the 15,000 - 20,000 capacity bracket.

Hibbeler

What is the capacity in Armagh? It looked really good on TV with a full crowd and I'm sure the atmosphere was really good as well (right up until the match that is :pac:).

Makes me wish that the Meath vs Westmeath Leinster semi final was set for somewhere like Tullamore rather than atmosphereless Croke Park before a Dublin game

J Cheever Loophole

Hibbeler wrote: »

What is the capacity in Armagh? It looked really good on TV with a full crowd and I'm sure the atmosphere was really good as well (right up until the match that is :pac:).

Makes me wish that the Meath vs Westmeath Leinster semi final was set for somewhere like Tullamore rather than atmosphereless Croke Park before a Dublin game

Capacity is listed as 19,500 with 5,700 seats. However for some reason when it comes to matches like yesterday there is a couple of thousand less tickets, i.e. it's given a capacity of around 17,000.

threeball

J Cheever Loophole wrote: »

Capacity is listed as 19,500 with 5,700 seats. However for some reason when it comes to matches like yesterday there is a couple of thousand less tickets, i.e. it's given a capacity of around 17,000.

They built that for under 5 million when we have 10's of millions being squandered on white elephant mickey swinging contests up and down the country. If the stands on both sides matched it would be the perfect ground.
Its listed as holding 16,500 which is perfect for the bigger counties and possibly too big for most. Beautiful development.

Alvin Holler

Think the official attendance was 18,200 in Armagh yesterday, lovely ground. Most of the grounds in Ulster are fairly perfectly sized. Usually get pretty near a full house for a decent game in Omagh, Derry, Ballybofey and Armagh.

nice_guy80

The Queen is great for funding

you don't hear too many of them complaining about that

J Cheever Loophole

nice_guy80 wrote: »

The Queen is great for funding

you don't hear too many of them complaining about that

Real coincidence that - I've heard Liz thinks that many of the Gaels up here are equally great for funding - goes under the name of 'income tax'........if you take my meaning!

nice_guy80

How much does Downing street put into the North every year to prop up the economy?

There is a huge level of grants for sports facilities in the north compared to the republic

J Cheever Loophole

nice_guy80 wrote: »

How much does Downing street put into the North every year to prop up the economy?

There is a huge level of grants for sports facilities in the north compared to the republic

Ha ha!!

This thread getting ever so slightly sidetracked?

Don't worry petal - I'm sure the midlands has some lovely grounds as well!

munchkin_utd

so.... There was/ are plans for a larger replacement for Parnell Park. Very under the radar this (probably not a secret, but never heard it mentioned till now)

Dublin GAA has suffered a major setback, arising from its failed attempt to acquire the landmark Spawell Complex on the city's southside.

The county board launched a concerted effort to acquire the NAMA-controlled 35-acre property in Templeogue but lost out in a bidding war.
"We are extremely disappointed that our bid was unsuccessful," said Dublin CEO John Costello.

"We considered that the Dublin GAA proposal for the construction of five grass and synthetic playing pitches and complementary facilities represented the best outcome for NAMA and the tax-payer, involving as it would, significant benefits to the community in terms of participation in sport, health and fitness and the economy generally."
<snip>
As well as providing several pitches, the site would also have been suitable for a stadium, in line with Dublin's 2011-17 strategic plan.
It envisaged the construction of a mid-sized facility, capable of accommodating around 25,000 spectators.
The Spawell Complex is located very close to the M50 motorway, making it an ideal location for Dublin county board's plans.
There is easy access to the site, which would have been a major advantage if a stadium were built there.

full article
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/spawell-rejection-a-major-setback-for-dublin-31311142.html

salmocab

read that article about the spawell complex this morning. I live reasonably close and it is a massive site with pretty good accessibility. It might have suited very well as it would be hard to get a land bank that big in Dublin that has good accessibility. Im torn about building a new stadium though, it would be great to have an appropriate sized stadium for league games but I'm not sure how much it would be needed from a Dublin point of view a handful of league games a year for the footballers and hurlers plus maybe one or two championship matches for the hurlers. I know underage teams can use it too but it seems like a lot of money would be spent on the stadium part.

munchkin_utd

salmocab wrote: »

read that article about the spawell complex this morning. I live reasonably close and it is a massive site with pretty good accessibility. It might have suited very well as it would be hard to get a land bank that big in Dublin that has good accessibility. Im torn about building a new stadium though, it would be great to have an appropriate sized stadium for league games but I'm not sure how much it would be needed from a Dublin point of view a handful of league games a year for the footballers and hurlers plus maybe one or two championship matches for the hurlers. I know underage teams can use it too but it seems like a lot of money would be spent on the stadium part.

the only thing might be that they could finance it by offloading Parnell park for residental re-development seeing as it'd likely be surplus to requirements.

theres no mention of it but something like that would make sense seeing as they'd be playing very few high profile games in Parnell park if their second stadium becomes a 25,000 capacity southside stadium complimented by Croke park on the northside.

in my eyes whats needed is a joint effort between Kildare and Dublin (if not meath too) for a proper state of the art 25,000 seater between them - but that doesnt seem to be on the cards.

ArmaniJeanss

munchkin_utd wrote: »

in my eyes whats needed is a joint effort between Kildare and Dublin (if not meath too) for a proper state of the art 25,000 seater between them - but that doesnt seem to be on the cards.

How would income be split e.g., naming rights, pitchside advertising etc. Clearly a 3way split would be biased against Dublin yet anything other than a 3way split would imply that Meath/Kildare are inferiors in this ground share.

ardmacha

threeball wrote: »

Armaghs ground being used now in the Donegal Armagh game is the perfect example of everythinga county ground should be. Reasonably sized, nice close stands, well appointed terraces and a quality playing surface. If more counties had grounds like this our games would be played in a fantastic atmosphere no matter what stage of the year it was.

Exactly. As I have said before, in Armagh the stand and covered terrace provide covered accommodation for league games and the like (which could have a substantial crowd if neighbours were involved) while the inexpensive uncovered terraces at the end provide additional capacity for the occasional bigger game. They did a great job on a very restricted site.

Whatever the attendance was on Sunday last there wasn't much room left without overcrowding, so they seem to have got the numbers about right.

munchkin_utd

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

How would income be split e.g., naming rights, pitchside advertising etc. Clearly a 3way split would be biased against Dublin yet anything other than a 3way split would imply that Meath/Kildare are inferiors in this ground share.

firstly you have a 20 or 30 million euro stadium. You are not making a profit any time soon out of the stadium.
So, the naming rights would go to pay for the stadium and not the coffers of any county board in a split use arrangement.
Pitchside advertising might be sold on the tripple, but again theres a massive debt to be paid back so the cash goes into the stadium holding company.
Same for boxes, whether they are sold once or per county, the cash goes to pay the debt.

when the debt is paid, you start getting into the question of who pays what, but you'd simply have the counties paying a "rent" or % of the gate as a contribution to upkeep.

It wouldnt be the first stadium in the world to have shared use or ownership.