BUDGET 2012

BOHtox

People spend €600 million a year on cannibas in an illegal drug trade. This money is lost to the black economy. Legalise it, sell it, tax it, create emplyoment from it and you can see this figure rise to around €750 million. There's a decent start. It will also save money from police not going after these petty crimes but onto more serious ones

amacca

seamus wrote: »

What they'll do is apply a flat-rate water charge for anyone without a water meter attached their home, and offer a tax rebate for the cost of fitting the water meter. Over the long-term, it will work out much more expensive to pay the flat-rate than use the meter.

It will also not be possible to sell or rent a property without a water meter fitted and properly calibrated/checked by the relevant authority in the previous 12 months.

Initial rumblings at the moment are that all of these property-related taxes will be consolidated in a single charge. So property tax, water tax, TV licence, sewage tax, etc etc. It will effectively be a "rate" that you pay for your use of public facilities in general, coupled with a property tax, meaning that most people pay around €500/year. But that won't be this year, and maybe not next year. It'll be introduced in the interests of "consolidating" taxes and making them less confusing, after introducing 3 or 4 separate property charges in the space of two years. It'll also be a fiver cheaper than the separate charges so people feel good about it.

will they be able to apply this flat rate water charge to houses that have their own wells, pumps etc and have borne the cost of digging well, putting in pumps, pipes etc and keeping them maintained do you think?....seems wholly unfair if they do

also not in favour of them lumping everything together..........I would be in favour of them being made to itemize so you can see what is going to pay what...so they cant redirect excess funds elsewhere and keep charging an unnecessarily high rate so they can piss the excess up against the wall in some vote buying exercise elsewhere.

Elmer Blooker

niallsparky wrote: »

Reason our economy is so depressed at the moment is because of high savings. If you had any concept of economics you would know that Government should facilitate savings during times of expansion and promote spending during times of contraction. Ireland's savings rate is in double figures at the moment, far in excess of what would be considered normal in any country. Consequently there's a lack of growth.

Also the SSIA's were a crazy idea, completely inflated the boom when they matured.

Raising VAT and introducing more stealth taxes will not promote spending, I can see tumble weed blowing down the main shopping streets in every town in the country after christmas!

pragmatic1

Someone mentioned a tax on text messages. Very good idea.

chasm

What about the new 2% levy on non-life insurance policies that's due to come in next year, can we class that under "Budget 2012"?

BOHtox

I'd set up an SSIA system right now. What the banks need is money. It's either people's pockets directly giving it to them and then receiving interest at a later date or the govt. taking your tax or borrowing to give them money. I'd prefer the SSIA system myself. The banks'll be recapitalised in no time

BOHtox

I'd also consider removing the subsidy to college students.
Studies have shown that the subsidy did not increase the levels in college from poorer areas. What it infact did was subsidise those who could already afford to go and who would have gone anyway

seamus

amacca wrote: »

will they be able to apply this flat rate water charge to houses that have their own wells, pumps etc and have borne the cost of digging well, putting in pumps, pipes etc and keeping them maintained do you think?....seems wholly unfair if they do

They can do this, but they probably wouldn't. Most likely it will be a blanket charge, and anyone who manages their own water supply will have to apply for an exemption from it.

also not in favour of them lumping everything together..........I would be in favour of them being made to itemize so you can see what is going to pay what...so they cant redirect excess funds elsewhere and keep charging an unnecessarily high rate so they can piss the excess up against the wall in some vote buying exercise elsewhere.

Ultimately I see a consolidated charge going to the local authority. So that means that itemising the charge isn't all that important. There is no facility in any of our taxation to be able to "direct" your taxes towards specific ends. But at least if a household charge goes directly to your local authority, you can at least be happy that it's being spent on local services.

Stiffler2

Just looking at this thread although I'm sure it's out of date at this stage :

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055523363

It says from 2009 that 3 million people are employed in Ireland currently
356,000 unemployed.

Now my maths is pretty crap so if anyone knows the population figures that are currently in work at this time let us all know.

We owe €173,000,000,000
We have 3,000,000 people in work

173,000,000,000 divided by 3,000,000 = ( roughly ) = €57,666

So does this mean that every citizen that is currently working owes €57,666 to the government basically, is that right ???

I'd of thought the figure would be higher than this ?

Spudmonkey

Stiffler2 wrote: »

Not liking the look of this thread so far. Personally I would prefer a flat rate charge for the water as opposed to a metre so I wouldn't have to stress / worry about my water consumption.

Seriously? Why not apply the same theory to electricity comsumption or oil/gas consumption.

I don't want it to be a flat rate where I end up paying for some dope that heads off to bed and night and leaves his taps running in much the same way I don't want to be paying when he leaves his lights on.

Metering it incentives.

jack presley

Is there going to be a minimum price for booze or is it just going to be ban on below cost selling?

Wibbs

seamus wrote: »

We can't spend our way out of a recession.

You can't tax yourself out of one either.

Rabidlamb

pragmatic1 wrote: »

Someone mentioned a tax on text messages. Very good idea.

Smartphones for sending webtexts & using g-mail/yahoo/facebook etc. may mean that ship has sailed.

Brewie

I heard on the radio a while ago that any tax on text messages would not be introduced and was ruled out.

The worrying change in the budget which was discussed on “The Last Word with Matt Cooper” last night on Today FM was the change with PRSI & Sick Pay. Labour TD Ged Nash was defending Joan Burton’s proposal;
Figures stated showed that the average period on certified sick leave was 10 weeks.
Currently, the sick pay policy is that the first 3 days of “certified” sick leave pay is paid by the employer (not legally obliged) and the remainder is paid by the department of social welfare/protection. Basically the Pay Related Social Insurance (PRSI) deducted from your wages pays this.
The proposal is basically extending this initial 3 day period to 4 weeks. This means that it is at the Employer’s discretion whether or not to pay this initial 4 weeks and anything after this is covered by the state.
Ged Nash reckoned that this would discourage the sick leave fraud mentality in Ireland. Personally I think they just want to do Joan Burton’s job at solving the problem that is Social Welfare Fraud.
When asked on the issue of the public sector employee’s (employer being the Irish Government) he side stepped the question. If I remember correctly there were circa 25 million sick days taken last year. The figures he had however did not distinguish between private & public sector days though....

Personally I think this is an anti growth measure/penalty for businesses. I can’t see the Government not paying the initial 4 weeks of the certified sick leave. As I am employed in the private sector I can say that I have seen that sick days are usually taken as holidays or the missed hours are made up later on in the year. Again, I cant see the public sector settling for this and more strikes/threatened strikes will ensue.

Rabidlamb

Stiffler2 wrote: »

Just looking at this thread although I'm sure it's out of date at this stage :

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055523363

It says from 2009 that 3 million people are employed in Ireland currently
356,000 unemployed.

Now my maths is pretty crap so if anyone knows the population figures that are currently in work at this time let us all know.

We owe €173,000,000,000
We have 3,000,000 people in work

173,000,000,000 divided by 3,000,000 = ( roughly ) = €57,666

So does this mean that every citizen that is currently working owes €57,666 to the government basically, is that right ???

I'd of thought the figure would be higher than this ?

Just over/under 2 million people working, some of them part-time & you haven't allowed for the interest.

BOHtox

Brewie wrote: »

I heard on the radio a while ago that any tax on text messages would not be introduced and was ruled out.

The worrying change in the budget which was discussed on “The Last Word with Matt Cooper” last night on Today FM was the change with PRSI & Sick Pay. Labour TD Ged Nash was defending Joan Burton’s proposal;
Figures stated showed that the average period on certified sick leave was 10 weeks.
Currently, the sick pay policy is that the first 3 days of “certified” sick leave pay is paid by the employer (not legally obliged) and the remainder is paid by the department of social welfare/protection. Basically the Pay Related Social Insurance (PRSI) deducted from your wages pays this.
The proposal is basically extending this initial 3 day period to 4 weeks. This means that it is at the Employer’s discretion whether or not to pay this initial 4 weeks and anything after this is covered by the state.
Ged Nash reckoned that this would discourage the sick leave fraud mentality in Ireland. Personally I think they just want to do Joan Burton’s job at solving the problem that is Social Welfare Fraud.
When asked on the issue of the public sector employee’s (employer being the Irish Government) he side stepped the question. If I remember correctly there were circa 25 million sick days taken last year. The figures he had however did not distinguish between private & public sector days though....

Personally I think this is an anti growth measure/penalty for businesses. I can’t see the Government not paying the initial 4 weeks of the certified sick leave. As I am employed in the private sector I can say that I have seen that sick days are usually taken as holidays or the missed hours are made up later on in the year. Again, I cant see the public sector settling for this and more strikes/threatened strikes will ensue.

That's what happens when you type your post into Microsoft Word first.

Brewie

BOHtox wrote: »

That's what happens when you type your post into Microsoft Word first.

Yup, because by mistake, I deleted it the first time I typed it on the website.

Stiffler2

Rabidlamb wrote: »

Just over/under 2 million people working, some of them part-time & you haven't allowed for the interest.

Ok, so then that's €173,000,000,000 divided by 2,000,000 people

which works out that everyone that is currently in work owes the governement €86,500 ??? :eek::eek:

I'm not taking into account if the person is full time / part time, public or private.
Just want to know how much each individual owes that is currently working.

In terms of interest is that the interest we owe back on the loan of €173,000,000,000 - that's alot of Zero's !!!!!!!!!

IMO no amount of cuts or tax increases will make a difference to that figure.
We're obviously going to be in this situation for decades

Stiffler2

Spudmonkey wrote: »

Seriously? Why not apply the same theory to electricity comsumption or oil/gas consumption.

I don't want it to be a flat rate where I end up paying for some dope that heads off to bed and night and leaves his taps running in much the same way I don't want to be paying when he leaves his lights on.

Metering it incentives.

I do see what you mean, I just personally would prefer to pay a flat rate and not have to worry about my consumption level is all. Don't need more stress in my life.

Can't even turn the heating on as I worry about the cost of it. If it was a flat rate it would be on every evening during winter but unfortunately I just put on an extra heavy jumper in the evenings and get under a blanket to watch tv.

But yes I can certainly see the downside to my argument and the upside of yours.

Stiffler2

.

mickydoomsux

Stiffler2 wrote: »

Ok, so then that's €173,000,000,000 divided by 2,000,000 people

which works out that everyone that is currently in work owes the governement €86,500 ??? :eek::eek:

I'm not taking into account if the person is full time / part time, public or private.
Just want to know how much each individual owes that is currently working.

In terms of interest is that the interest we owe back on the loan of €173,000,000,000 - that's alot of Zero's !!!!!!!!!

IMO no amount of cuts or tax increases will make a difference to that figure.
We're obviously going to be in this situation for decades

Not everyone pays the same amount of tax and it won't be paid off with just money raised from income tax.

These "every Irish man, woman and child owes 80 bajillion euro!!!1111!!!!" statements are misleading, populist, rabble rousing, tabloid garbage sentiments.

Stiffler2

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Not everyone pays the same amount of tax and it won't be paid off with just money raised from income tax.

These "every Irish man, woman and child owes 80 bajillion euro!!!1111!!!!" statements are misleading, populist, rabble rousing, tabloid garbage sentiments.

Well - Duh

mickydoomsux

Stiffler2 wrote: »

Well - Duh

Obvious to you and me but not the majority of the population. They believe whatever the TV and newspapers tell them about how "poor" they are.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

talkinyite wrote: »

The water tax. I consider access to clean water a basic human right so they can go **** themselves.

Lol... You mean a basic human entitlement? Where do you think the clean water comes from, the sky? Lol drill your own well if you have a problem with it.

Galtee

Johanna Enough Student wrote: »

Lol... You mean a basic human entitlement? Where do you think the clean water comes from, the sky? Lol drill your own well if you have a problem with it.

Huh?

Monife

Stiffler2 wrote: »

Ok, so then that's €173,000,000,000 divided by 2,000,000 people

which works out that everyone that is currently in work owes the governement €86,500 ??? :eek::eek:

I'm not taking into account if the person is full time / part time, public or private.
Just want to know how much each individual owes that is currently working.

In terms of interest is that the interest we owe back on the loan of €173,000,000,000 - that's alot of Zero's !!!!!!!!!

IMO no amount of cuts or tax increases will make a difference to that figure.
We're obviously going to be in this situation for decades

Why is it only working people that are burdened with the debt?

Lando Griffin

I think you should have a TV licence for each telly you own, that way the rich in society would have to pay for all the tellys they bought during the boom. Also, since larger tellys use more eletricity, they should have an incremantal licence system as per size of telly, therefore those with carbon gobbling 42" tellys would pay a percent more than those with an eco friendly 32"er.

RichieC

The ****fan is going to start spinning.

RichieC

Lando Griffin wrote: »

I think you should have a TV licence for each telly you own, that way the rich in society would have to pay for all the tellys they bought during the boom. Also, since larger tellys use more eletricity, they should have an incremantal licence system as per size of telly, therefore those with carbon gobbling 42" tellys would pay a percent more than those with an eco friendly 32"er.

There are tramps in this country with tellys in their bog... and the TV licence is nout to do with power consumption, that's your electricity bill.

mickydoomsux

Lando Griffin wrote: »

.... that way the rich in society would have to pay for all the tellys they bought during the boom.

This is a joke, right?

"MUHAHAHAHAH, i have 3 tellys. I'm a billionaire!!!!!!!!!!!"