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Who thinks Sean Quinn is a great businessman now?

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 45 Katekat


    DB10 wrote: »
    You sound like a typical Fianna Gael voter. Fianna Gael is what they will call the party when they merge in a few years.

    Even though it was Fianna Fail that nationalised Anglo and Fine Gael and labour has to clean up the mess left behind by Fianna Fail and we the tax payer are going to be paying for this? SQ was obviously in bed with Seannie Fitz and the like, this is a man who has ran one of the biggest irish companies and he did not have the cope on that the deal with Anglo was suss? I don't think so, he knew exactly what he was doing, look at how his assets are now so well hidden amongst the family and their shells of companies.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,591 ✭✭✭RATM


    It's gas to see how thick some Irish people can be.

    Just a few weeks ago Harry Crosbie was on the Brendan o'Connor show talking about his debts and NAMA. He let it slip that he is getting a write down of 50% on his loans of €500m. That means the taxpayer is bailing him out to the tune of €250m- every man woman and child in this country is GIVING Harry Crosbie €125 to bail him out. Yet in the very same interview he went crowing on about raising €2m to help build the new Children's Hospital. The audience had the wool totally pulled over their eyes- they were applauding this failed businessman at the end of the interview. Applauding someone who's debts on the taxpayer could have paid for ten children's hospitals.

    Now we have Sean Quinn and his poor mouth story while he is shifting assets of €800m to Russia and Eastern Europe where his army of lawyers know he'll never be touched. During all his time in insurance Quinn was nothing more than a gambler. He didn't employ a single actuary or risk assessor and all he was doing was gambling, just like with Anglo. Yet people in this country see him as some sort of demi-god, even though they are paying for his failure via the insurance levy.

    I don't think the employees of the Quinn group are going to see him as a demi-god when they realise that Sean gambled their pension fund and the new owners ain't going to honour them. Might be a bit of a wake-up call for them while Sean sips margeritas in Bermuda.


  • Registered Users Posts: 102 ✭✭Turnstyle


    RATM wrote: »
    It's gas to see how thick some Irish people can be.

    thick as planks.. given the results of the latest elections for presidency and constitutional change i think at the next election there should be a pre entry IQ test


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,666 ✭✭✭Howjoe1


    Can someone answer my two question?

    The legal action being taken by IRBC (Anglo) against Quinn & his wife is listed for an initial hearing in the Commercial Court on the 14th November.

    1. Does his actions of declaring himself bankrupt in the UK today (11th November) mean that the hearing next Monday does not go ahead?

    2. or, does it go ahead but he has basically given the two fingers to the IRBC (and the taxpayers) by declaring he is bankrupt and will pay nothing?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,956 ✭✭✭Doc Ruby


    skelliser wrote: »
    this is open to everyone here btw.
    There is nothing to stop anyone from ireland going to the UK and declaring bankrupt.

    all aboard!!!
    This is true, you can get out from under your mortgage in a year or so in the UK, as far as I know. You'll still lose the house but at least your income won't be garnished for the next 15 years.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,666 ✭✭✭Howjoe1


    Doc Ruby wrote: »
    This is true, you can get out from under your mortgage in a year or so in the UK, as far as I know. You'll still lose the house but at least your income won't be garnished for the next 15 years.

    So will he lose his mansion in Cavan? that btw he has an outstanding home improvement loan of €3m with IRBC.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,945 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    Galtee wrote: »
    Maybe you could do with some of it if you have to wonder why you're laughing. :rolleyes:

    I know, listening to people like you in fact should make me cry rather than laugh.
    If you were in his situation you would do the exact thing. Why would he give it all back, this isnt a disney movie.

    And I bet you are problably down the pub complaining that they will be cutting your dole, increasing your tax or demanding more money off you. :rolleyes:
    The sh** that quinn has pulled isn't just a stroke against some mythical system, it is against you, me and the rest of us that have to live in this place.
    Wertz wrote: »
    I think Quinn was a once great businessman that much like the rest of the country got greedy and relied on poor adivce, particularly in relation to his purchase of anglo share stake (I hoinestly believe he was conned here through an intricate plot to relieve him of some of his cash rich company) and is ultimately paying the price (well not really, given the familial transfers of wealth and property).

    His story reminds me of Aesop's fable of the dog with the bone, spying his reflection in the river to grab the other dog's bone and loosing his own.

    The whole thing surrounding the insurance group and subsequent bailout doesn't sit well with me though.

    But how many of you on here have run such a successful empire for as long? One sure thing, none of those populating the Dáil the past 20 yrs including the current crop have managed it...

    He was so successful and so great at running an empire for 20 years, yet he was conned by a couple of smart Dublin bankers.
    FFS pull the other one it has bells on it.

    As you alluded to your doggy analogy.
    He got very greedy and shure why not when he knew that the bank would lend him a chunk of the money to gamble.
    He might even have known if it didn't work out some other rich guys would help come to the rescue and shure if it all went t*ts up the taxpayers would foot the bill.
    Shure wasn't it a great win win chance for him.
    Except suddenly a non insider johnny foreigner was put into the top position in IFSRA and suddenly he got his cash cow company taken off him for the dodgy sh** he had been pulling.

    Remember all those politicans, the likes of ned o'theif lambasting the regulator.
    Tipp Man wrote: »
    Well this is it in a nutshell

    He was a great businessman till he got involved in Anglo - a deal that turned sour very rapidly and a deal that i am sure he wishes he had never even dreamed of - nevermind actually gotten involved in

    However to see posts like they wished him dead and stuff - well i find that a bit sick actually. The vast majority of successful entreprenuers go out of business several times before it works out for them. Its about taking risks - sometimes those risks fail - sometimes they win. This clearly failed

    Yeah but these other failed entrepreneurs don't leave the taxpayer with a near 3 billion bill.
    Do they ?
    DB10 wrote: »
    His bankruptcy ruling would be up in one year, due to law in Northern Ireland. There wont be an election in that time.

    His eligibility is perfectly feasible.

    That would be ultimate kick in the nuts to the taxpayers of this country.
    Gophur wrote: »
    5,000 people on the dole would cost the taxpayer €50m per year.

    As for the €2.8B ? That was as a result of the Bank guarantee given by Brian(s) Cowen and Lenihan.

    Shure it's always someone elses fault in little old banana republic Ireland.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,907 ✭✭✭✭Kristopherus


    Howjoe1 wrote: »
    There are bankrupt ordinary citizens who struggle to put food on the table for their children.

    Quinn through a complicated maze has put all his assets in family member names and moved them off shore.

    Is he penniless? i don't believe so. Is he still a millionaire? i think so.

    Is that €2.8 BILLION that is owed to Anglo Irish Bank, that State has gauranteed in our names as citizens, for which we suffer cuts to pay the Bond Holders, are we not to see I penny of it?

    AM I feeling sorry for Quinn? No

    Just another black day in this Banana Republic.

    Well said. Quinn is quickly becoming a slippery eel, using every ruse he can find to avoid Anglo's claws. Sadly, all the court actions will have to be paid by Joe Public on behalf of Anglo and on behalf of Quinn because he's a bankrupt:mad::mad::mad:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,909 ✭✭✭✭Wertz


    jmayo wrote: »


    He was so successful and so great at running an empire for 20 years, yet he was conned by a couple of smart Dublin bankers.
    FFS pull the other one it has bells on it.

    As you alluded to your doggy analogy.
    He got very greedy and shure why not when he knew that the bank would lend him a chunk of the money to gamble.
    He might even have known if it didn't work out some other rich guys would help come to the rescue and shure if it all went t*ts up the taxpayers would foot the bill.
    Shure wasn't it a great win win chance for him.
    Except suddenly a non insider johnny foreigner was put into the top position in IFSRA and suddenly he got his cash cow company taken off him for the dodgy sh** he had been pulling.

    Remember all those politicans, the likes of ned o'theif lambasting the regulator.



    Point taken.
    ...and the point on him maybe knowing that if he failed on such a grand scale he'd get the bailout, is indeed a possibility.

    But I still think that he was approached by some very clever Dublin bankers (them knowing he/his company was cash/asset rich, and that their bank was up the creek in the very near future) and got talked up to the point where he couldn't lose. Maybe I'm being naive in that but I don't see how a man that built such a business empire out of the cavan clay would risk it all on buying something intangible like a bunch of CFDs without not being conned to some extent. Those share options were bought with Quinn group cash/securities...when the share price went off a cliff the famous golden shower buy them up for less than 20% of their initial worth (them probably being worth even less than that) with a loan from the bank that is still outstanding...he tries to scramble back the loss by messing around with the insurance group...and as you said gets caught out by a suddenly fully conscious regulator's office.

    Like I said maybe I'm being naive. Up until the anglo thing I don't think he had done much wrong...
    I don't like the current series of events anymore than anyone in this country and far be it from me to defend him


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,325 ✭✭✭ItsAWindUp


    This country is so elitist when it comes to finance, it's incredible.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    One of the biggest scams is that his companies were in massive debt. A levy was set up to cover it, then the companies sold to new owners minus the debt. They get the new companies, we get the debt. Where's the big boys rules in all of this?

    If the debt wasn't with Anglo then the companies would have been allowed to fail or debt taken on by the new owners.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,398 ✭✭✭Paparazzo


    Gophur wrote: »
    Sean Quinn took €400m out of the Quinn Group for his 5 children. That's €80m each.

    He could start by giving that money back.

    The beatification of SQ is nauseating. He is personally the cause of €2.8B of the debt the Irish taxpayer has to pay back, yet so many of the blind and stupid followers believe he is still whiter than white.
    You're just a begrudger :pac:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,219 ✭✭✭woodoo


    Do you realise he is trying to get the taxpayer to pay E2.8bn of his gambling debt?

    While the piece of **** transfers his assets into his families name. He should be spat at every time he walks down the street in Cavan.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,262 ✭✭✭✭Joey the lips


    Sean Quinn is a great business man....

    anyone that can convince a bank to lend 4 billion is great..

    Always remember... You owe the bank one thousend they call you. You owe the bank 1 billion you call them


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,949 ✭✭✭A Primal Nut


    lazygal wrote: »
    He broke the rules associated with running an insurance company and invested far too heavily in one bank, Anglo, to the detriment of his other businesses. That's fact, not begrudery.

    Quinn has taken risk after risk which is why is he became so successful in the first place. Eventually he took one risk too many and now he failed! He didn't do anything illegal.

    Nobody should celebrate this. Quinn's businesses being sold could mean thousands of people with very few other opportunities will descend into poverty.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,949 ✭✭✭A Primal Nut


    Katekat wrote: »
    Even though it was Fianna Fail that nationalised Anglo and Fine Gael and labour has to clean up the mess left behind by Fianna Fail and we the tax payer are going to be paying for this? SQ was obviously in bed with Seannie Fitz and the like, this is a man who has ran one of the biggest irish companies and he did not have the cope on that the deal with Anglo was suss? I don't think so, he knew exactly what he was doing, look at how his assets are now so well hidden amongst the family and their shells of companies.

    If he knew Anglo was suspect, and knew exactly what he is doing, then why did he invest so much in Anglo?

    Plenty of other people invested in Anglo and BoI shares. Shane Ross wrote a book about how the property/bank collapse was easy to predict yet he himself had Bank Of Ireland shares right up to the end.


  • Registered Users Posts: 45,150 ✭✭✭✭Bobeagleburger


    He took advantage of Uk bankruptcy laws. He can be back in business in a year compared to 12 in Ireland with our drachonian laws.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,488 ✭✭✭✭Ace2007


    If you were in his situation you would do the exact thing. Why would he give it all back, this isnt a disney movie.

    if you were in his position, with a couple hundred of million in the bank and successful business, why would you put it all on the line to make a billion, what is a billion going to do for ya?

    he gambled it all and lost, so he should give it back - he signed the papers to say his assets where his securities, he then moved everything out of his name and to his family - is this right?


  • Site Banned Posts: 2,719 ✭✭✭DB10


    I remember him and Sean Gallagher at a business do a few years ago.

    Cigars all round and this tune banging out by the band...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBKGhOlJ8rM


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    GetWithIt wrote: »
    The insurance levy is to pay the shortfall arising from losses that will be incurred by insurance policies written by Quinn Insurance. If this didn't exist those policy holders would be screwed.

    So they got involved with a dodgy company......on what planet is that our problem ?

    I did a job for a company early this year and am still owed a grand by them, which I don't think I'll ever see. Do you see anyone running to bail me out ?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    Quinn has taken risk after risk which is why is he became so successful in the first place. Eventually he took one risk too many and now he failed! He didn't do anything illegal.

    Read this and see if you still think that :

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/anglo-case-drags-quinn-family-into-the-spotlight-2880157.html
    Quinn bet that Anglo's shares would rise and got it wrong, allegedly unbeknown to his children.

    He initially funded his bets with €750m in loans from Quinn Group and family companies.

    Are they HIS bets, his children's, or his company's ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,689 ✭✭✭Kasabian


    Steal a loaf of bread to feed your children you will be labelled a thief.

    Just saying..


  • Registered Users Posts: 45,150 ✭✭✭✭Bobeagleburger


    Ace2007 wrote: »
    if you were in his position, with a couple hundred of million in the bank and successful business, why would you put it all on the line to make a billion, what is a billion going to do for ya?

    he gambled it all and lost, so he should give it back - he signed the papers to say his assets where his securities, he then moved everything out of his name and to his family - is this right?

    Of course it's not right but the system is broken if he's able to do this.

    Anyone in his position would do the same I'd imagine.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,488 ✭✭✭✭Ace2007


    rarnes1 wrote: »
    Of course it's not right but the system is broken if he's able to do this.

    Anyone in his position would do the same I'd imagine.

    let's see, if we are to belive that he gave his assets to his family, he could of given that back, people would look more favourable on him if he wrote a check for 100m and gave money back that everyone knows he has. maybe he can't pay back 2billion but he could pay back some,

    it's like sayin you can't pay your mortage, so instead of paying some, you decide not to pay any.


  • Registered Users Posts: 45,150 ✭✭✭✭Bobeagleburger


    Ace2007 wrote: »
    let's see, if we are to belive that he gave his assets to his family, he could of given that back, people would look more favourable on him if he wrote a check for 100m and gave money back that everyone knows he has. maybe he can't pay back 2billion but he could pay back some,

    it's like sayin you can't pay your mortage, so instead of paying some, you decide not to pay any.

    Why would he give it back if he can get away with it?

    I'm not pro Quinn btw, the opposite infact.

    Just saying the system isn't right when he can get out of this scott free.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭desertcircus


    What's with this bizarre attitude of "sure, he was great till he bet on Anglo, we need more like him"? One massively outweighs the other. He's cost every single person in this country over six hundred euro each.

    And I don't believe for a minute that he had the wool pulled over his eyes. He didn't get where he was being a hairless innocent naif. He knew he was taking a punt, and he did it with other people's money. I hope his attempt to be declared bankrupt in Northern Ireland fails as it should, and he faces Irish bankruptcy instead.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,256 ✭✭✭Ronin247


    I would defend most of what Sean Quinn is doing,and would do the exact same thing if in that position.

    Quinn bought a load of Anglo shares,based on a set of cooked books which no one has been prosecuted for cooking!

    Anglo goes bump due to a property bubble bursting and the madness of a government letting banks lend at up to 10x salary for a mortgage,and still no prosecutions.

    Lenihan and Cowen say "oh ok the country will accept these debts because our friends are bondholders and it would look bad to the Germans if we didnt pay a PRIVATE companies debts.

    Sean Quinn never took one cent of your money.His PRIVATE company owed another PRIVATE company a sh*t load of money. Our government assumed these debts to please Europe.

    If you want to blame someone look no further than our political system.

    I am not from Cavan and none of my family work for Quinn.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭desertcircus


    And the less said about the idea that he's only doing what the rest of us would do the better. For a start, most of us wouldn't make a three billion euro bet with someone else's money. And to continue, if we did, some of us would have the dignity to accept that we'd done something horribly wrong and wouldn't, you know, hand out four hundred million euro to our family in order to make sure that we'd be loaded even if we were bankrupted and taken for everything. It's a course of action lacking utterly in basic decency, and it boils my blood that we spend our time arguing over whether people are treated too nicely on welfare when a man whose gambling losses could cover the cuts being discussed is howling about the sheer unfairness of how he was shut out of his own company after lending hundreds of millions to himself to take a huge loan that went spectacularly south and then giving eighty million quid to each member of his immediate family to avoid it being used to ease the massive hit being taken by the taxpayer.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 523 ✭✭✭coonecb1


    Great businessman, just a cr*p investor.

    Rule #1 for investing: Diversification!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,937 ✭✭✭patwicklow


    Ah well at least he can go back to his 50 cent card games.


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