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Who thinks Sean Quinn is a great businessman now?

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,909 ✭✭✭✭Wertz


    I think Quinn was a once great businessman that much like the rest of the country got greedy and relied on poor adivce, particularly in relation to his purchase of anglo share stake (I hoinestly believe he was conned here through an intricate plot to relieve him of some of his cash rich company) and is ultimately paying the price (well not really, given the familial transfers of wealth and property).

    His story reminds me of Aesop's fable of the dog with the bone, spying his reflection in the river to grab the other dog's bone and loosing his own.

    The whole thing surrounding the insurance group and subsequent bailout doesn't sit well with me though.

    But how many of you on here have run such a successful empire for as long? One sure thing, none of those populating the Dáil the past 20 yrs including the current crop have managed it...

    As for bankruptcy...anyone willingly declaring it here is a far bigger fool that Sean Quinn ever was...12 yrs? F*ck that...


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    smash wrote: »
    It's pretty black and white.

    "A levy of up to 2 per cent on all non-life and health insurance polices is to be introduced to fund Quinn Insurance."
    - http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/0913/breaking29.html

    So everyone is paying for Quinn insurance because Sean Quinn took a gamble that didn't pay off. Lets forget the 2.8b or the personal debt or anything like that for a minute. He took a gamble with his business, it failed, we're all paying for it.

    What is the justification for this, if any? Why not let him collapse and anyone who chose to gamble with him, it's their own tough luck that it didn't work out?

    Why does the free market only apply to ordinary people? Why should people like this get a bailout, but NOT homeowners being foreclosed upon?

    Do we live in a society of equals or don't we? If not, get me on the next plane out of here thanks.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    What is the justification for this, if any? Why not let him collapse and anyone who chose to gamble with him, it's their own tough luck that it didn't work out?

    Why does the free market only apply to ordinary people? Why should people like this get a bailout, but NOT homeowners being foreclosed upon?

    Do we live in a society of equals or don't we? If not, get me on the next plane out of here thanks.
    It's worse than that... look at how the family held on to the assets: http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/quinns-traded-euro10m-firm-for-laptop-court-told-2902835.html


  • Registered Users Posts: 102 ✭✭Turnstyle


    the people who will defend Quinn are probably the same type that voted for Sean Gallagher, idiots

    "ah sur he created jobs, no bother sur" let him off with one of the biggest frauds ever committed in the state at our own cost.. :rolleyes:

    how long before he is on the late late


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,758 ✭✭✭Laois_Man


    Yeah right - Quinn is bankrupt!

    How much is in his wife's bank accounts tho - and where did it all come from?

    The system is a complete and utter farce!!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    Remember when he did an interview with RTE, I think and was banging on about how he didn't gamble, only plays a few hands of cards with his mates the odd time and would only play for penny's/cents...

    Some gambling done with Anglo......


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,025 ✭✭✭Tipp Man


    Wertz wrote: »
    I think Quinn was a once great businessman that much like the rest of the country got greedy and relied on poor adivce, particularly in relation to his purchase of anglo share stake (I hoinestly believe he was conned here through an intricate plot to relieve him of some of his cash rich company) and is ultimately paying the price (well not really, given the familial transfers of wealth and property).

    His story reminds me of Aesop's fable of the dog with the bone, spying his reflection in the river to grab the other dog's bone and loosing his own.

    The whole thing surrounding the insurance group and subsequent bailout doesn't sit well with me though.

    But how many of you on here have run such a successful empire for as long? One sure thing, none of those populating the Dáil the past 20 yrs including the current crop have managed it...

    As for bankruptcy...anyone willingly declaring it here is a far bigger fool that Sean Quinn ever was...12 yrs? F*ck that...


    Well this is it in a nutshell

    He was a great businessman till he got involved in Anglo - a deal that turned sour very rapidly and a deal that i am sure he wishes he had never even dreamed of - nevermind actually gotten involved in

    However to see posts like they wished him dead and stuff - well i find that a bit sick actually. The vast majority of successful entreprenuers go out of business several times before it works out for them. Its about taking risks - sometimes those risks fail - sometimes they win. This clearly failed

    What i am not happy about is the means that these guys have for transferring their assets to family when the **** hits the fan. This breaks the risk reward relationship which is wrong imo. Although the risk reward relationship is broken throughout the irish economy it is just we are dealing with bigger numbers in this instance


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,379 ✭✭✭Sticky_Fingers


    I'd laugh at some of the comments supporting this huckster if it wasn't so pathetic, some people on here must be suffering from Stockholm Syndrome if they think that this fella was a decent ol' skin. The man has cost the people of this country a fortune over his own shady dealings and his Del Boy approach to company finances.

    I have no problem with people who fail in business, they should at least be applauded for having the balls to ante up but I have zero respect for the chancers who try to weasel their way out of all responsibility and make other people pay through the nose for their greed.

    In any sane country this guy would be finished in business for the rest of his life but knowing the Irish love for a rogue (Haughey, Beverly Cooper Flynn, Pa Flynn, Lowry et al) I'd predict this guy will be back in operation shortly and fleecing the people once again.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    If quinn paid back what he owes to this state it would cover most of the budget 'adjustments' that are going to be made in december.... The poor will get poorer but seany will still be living in his mansion up there in cavan!!!!
    Banana Republic, never truer than it is now!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 102 ✭✭Turnstyle


    Tipp Man wrote: »
    The vast majority of successful entreprenuers go out of business several times before it works out for them. Its about taking risks - sometimes those risks fail - sometimes they win. This clearly failed

    What i am not happy about is the means that these guys have for transferring their assets to family when the **** hits the fan. This breaks the risk reward relationship which is wrong imo. Although the risk reward relationship is broken throughout the irish economy it is just we are dealing with bigger numbers in this instance

    you do understand that the reason things imploded with Quinn was not just due to an unfortunate downturn in business etc
    Quinn fraudulently secured borrowings (for a gamble on Anglo stocks) on insurance reserves....

    Putting all your eggs in one basket was not exactly a smart move either for a so called business genius...


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  • Site Banned Posts: 2,719 ✭✭✭DB10


    A local councillor told me last week, he heard Quinn will be standing in the next European election or general election, and word on the ground is he may even top the poll.

    He told me its possible that when this government falls, that Quinn, Gallagher and 2 SF tds could be elected in the constituency. Nearly was 2 SF Tds last time as well.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,025 ✭✭✭Tipp Man


    Turnstyle wrote: »
    you do understand that the reason things imploded with Quinn was not just due to an unfortunate downturn in business etc
    Quinn fraudulently secured borrowings (for a gamble on Anglo stocks) on insurance reserves....

    Putting all your eggs in one basket was not exactly a smart move either for a so called business genius...

    I know that perfectly well thank you - which is why i clearly said that he was a good businessman until he got involved in the Anglo deal. No Anglo deal then no problem in insurance company then no problem in quinn group


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭GetWithIt


    DB10 wrote: »
    A local councillor told me last week, he heard Quinn will be standing in the next European election or general election, and word on the ground is he may even top the poll.

    He told me its possible that when this government falls, that Quinn, Gallagher and 2 SF tds could be elected in the constituency. Nearly was 2 SF Tds last time as well.
    Firstly, you can't be a TD if you're bankrupt so he was talking out of his hole.

    I'm not sure if the same rule applies to those declared bankrupt in another jurisdiction, or if it still stands once that person has finished the bankruptcy process, but I would imagine running for public office would be well down his list of priorities. And even if it was, his eligibility would be highly doubtful.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,921 ✭✭✭Gophur


    Sean Quinn took €400m out of the Quinn Group for his 5 children. That's €80m each.

    He could start by giving that money back.

    The beatification of SQ is nauseating. He is personally the cause of €2.8B of the debt the Irish taxpayer has to pay back, yet so many of the blind and stupid followers believe he is still whiter than white.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    I still don't understand why I as a taxpayer should have to help pay for this. I never had any involvement with Quinn and I never had any plans to either. This was a private company, its problems are its own problems. If people chose to take risks by investing it, that's their problem.

    Can someone explain why I, or anyone else who had absolutely zero involvement whatsoever with this company should pay a single cent towards saving it? Is it a case of the 1% strikes again? Croneyism? He's a friend of the political elite therefore he gets taken care of at everyone else's expense?


  • Site Banned Posts: 2,719 ✭✭✭DB10


    GetWithIt wrote: »
    Firstly, you can't be a TD if you're bankrupt so he was talking out of his hole.

    I'm not sure if the same rule applies to those declared bankrupt in another jurisdiction, or if it still stands once that person has finished the bankruptcy process, but I would imagine running for public office would be well down his list of priorities. And even if it was, his eligibility would be highly doubtful.

    His bankruptcy ruling would be up in one year, due to law in Northern Ireland. There wont be an election in that time.

    His eligibility is perfectly feasible.


  • Site Banned Posts: 2,719 ✭✭✭DB10


    I still don't understand why I as a taxpayer should have to help pay for this. I never had any involvement with Quinn and I never had any plans to either. This was a private company, its problems are its own problems. If people chose to take risks by investing it, that's their problem.

    Can someone explain why I, or anyone else who had absolutely zero involvement whatsoever with this company should pay a single cent towards saving it? Is it a case of the 1% strikes again? Croneyism? He's a friend of the political elite therefore he gets taken care of at everyone else's expense?

    Blame Fianna Gael and the ending Fianna Fail government. You voted for them, so you cant complain.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,921 ✭✭✭Gophur


    I still don't understand why I as a taxpayer should have to help pay for this. I never had any involvement with Quinn and I never had any plans to either. This was a private company, its problems are its own problems. If people chose to take risks by investing it, that's their problem.

    Can someone explain why I, or anyone else who had absolutely zero involvement whatsoever with this company should pay a single cent towards saving it? Is it a case of the 1% strikes again? Croneyism? He's a friend of the political elite therefore he gets taken care of at everyone else's expense?

    5,000 people on the dole would cost the taxpayer €50m per year.

    As for the €2.8B ? That was as a result of the Bank guarantee given by Brian(s) Cowen and Lenihan.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭GetWithIt


    I still don't understand why I as a taxpayer should have to help pay for this. I never had any involvement with Quinn and I never had any plans to either. This was a private company, its problems are its own problems. If people chose to take risks by investing it, that's their problem.

    Can someone explain why I, or anyone else who had absolutely zero involvement whatsoever with this company should pay a single cent towards saving it? Is it a case of the 1% strikes again? Croneyism? He's a friend of the political elite therefore he gets taken care of at everyone else's expense?
    The insurance levy is to pay the shortfall arising from losses that will be incurred by insurance policies written by Quinn Insurance. If this didn't exist those policy holders would be screwed.

    The 2.8B is indeed owed to a Bank and shouldn't concern us. Unfortunately that bank is Anglo, has been nationalized, and it's liabilities are now ours. Thanks Cowan, Lenihan, Cardiff.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,921 ✭✭✭Gophur


    DB10 wrote: »
    Blame Fianna Gael and the ending Fianna Fail government. You voted for them, so you cant complain.

    Who are Fianna Gael?

    If you mean Fine Gael, how are they responsible? (And why not include Labour, or the Greens?)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 102 ✭✭Turnstyle


    Tipp Man wrote: »
    I know that perfectly well thank you - which is why i clearly said that he was a good businessman until he got involved in the Anglo deal. No Anglo deal then no problem in insurance company then no problem in quinn group

    good maybe.. but definitely not "great", i was never a fan of Quinn and how they done business, they rode young drivers sideways here for years and somehow got away with it. I suspect his involvement with the gang of lads started well before before that deal was struck up with Anglo


  • Site Banned Posts: 2,719 ✭✭✭DB10


    Gophur wrote: »
    Who are Fianna Gael?

    If you mean Fine Gael, how are they responsible? (And why not include Labour, or the Greens?)

    Sorry I was mistaken there re Fianna Gael, the two parties are so similar it's hard to notice a difference.

    Fianna Gael have continued with this bailout of Anglo and, have introduced slave labour in the form of the job bridge scheme.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,921 ✭✭✭Gophur


    DB10 wrote: »
    Sorry I was mistaken there re Fianna Gael, the two parties are so similar it's hard to notice a difference.

    Fianna Gael have continued with this bailout of Anglo and, have introduced slave labour in the form of the job bridge scheme.

    Still cannot type "Fine", eh?

    I'd blame Labour for everything, if I was you!


  • Registered Users Posts: 630 ✭✭✭Annabella1


    I still don't understand why I as a taxpayer should have to help pay for this. I never had any involvement with Quinn and I never had any plans to either. This was a private company, its problems are its own problems. If people chose to take risks by investing it, that's their problem.

    Can someone explain why I, or anyone else who had absolutely zero involvement whatsoever with this company should pay a single cent towards saving it? Is it a case of the 1% strikes again? Croneyism? He's a friend of the political elite therefore he gets taken care of at everyone else's expense?

    The problem is that Quinn took a billion + euro loan out from Anglo to have a Contracts for Difference punt and lost it all....and we own Anglo which means the taxpayer is on the hook for it all.

    The Quinn Insurance debt has been introduced as a levy on all of us whenever we take out an insurance policy. I'm not sure what this debt amounts to.

    I really can't see how anyone can defend this.Think of the unnecessary lives lost through hospital waiting lists,large class sizes etc which this money could have allieviated.

    How can he sleep in his bed??


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,909 ✭✭✭✭Wertz


    Turnstyle wrote: »
    good maybe.. but definitely not "great", i was never a fan of Quinn and how they done business, they rode young drivers sideways here for years and somehow got away with it. I suspect his involvement with the gang of lads started well before before that deal was struck up with Anglo

    As regards insurance, they may well have fleeced young drivers...but to many they were the only ones willing to take the chance on them.

    As for Anglo, I think he was sold a pup.
    F*ck me the whole country was sold one regarding Anglo.

    I was never in his employ, don't hail from Cavan, but I did see many of his companies and products on sites throughot the boom...like it or not, his business models worked (including his insurance company)... one big gamble based on dodgy advice (IMO) from a bunch like Seanie Fitz and the rest, was enough to rip it from his grasp.
    I'm as unhappy as anyone that his debts get passed onto us all, but that's not his fault alone...blame previous government and company laws and a whole crooked undercurrent in our fine little State.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,025 ✭✭✭Tipp Man


    Turnstyle wrote: »
    good maybe.. but definitely not "great", i was never a fan of Quinn and how they done business, they rode young drivers sideways here for years and somehow got away with it. I suspect his involvement with the gang of lads started well before before that deal was struck up with Anglo

    Before the Anglo deal he was very successful in several lines of business and had become very very wealthy. Leaving aside personal feelings towards him he was extremely successful. There are very few people who are successful at 1 line of business nevermind having several independant successful businesses. This country needs a few more pre Anglo Quinns right now to help get us out of this mess

    Regarding young drivers - there was more than his insurance company to deal with and also maybe if young drivers actually coped on a bit they wouldn't have to pay such extortionate premiums but thats a discussion that has nothing to do with quinn


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭ziggy


    This post has been deleted.


  • Site Banned Posts: 2,719 ✭✭✭DB10


    Gophur wrote: »
    Still cannot type "Fine", eh?

    I'd blame Labour for everything, if I was you!

    You sound like a typical Fianna Gael voter. Fianna Gael is what they will call the party when they merge in a few years.


  • Registered Users Posts: 102 ✭✭Turnstyle


    Wertz wrote: »
    one big gamble based on dodgy advice (IMO) from a bunch like Seanie Fitz and the rest, was enough to rip it from his grasp.
    I'm as unhappy as anyone that his debts get passed onto us all, but that's not his fault alone...blame previous government and company laws and a whole crooked undercurrent in our fine little State.

    Sorry but his actions are inexcusable, he committed a massive fraud based on greed and the blame lies solely with him, not bad advisors or the previous government, him.... and he should be locked up imo along with fitzpatrick and the like, sure we need entrepreneurs but lessons need to be learned if we are to progress


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  • Registered Users Posts: 22,249 ✭✭✭✭Lemlin


    Gophur wrote: »
    Sean Quinn took €400m out of the Quinn Group for his 5 children. That's €80m each.

    He could start by giving that money back.

    The beatification of SQ is nauseating. He is personally the cause of €2.8B of the debt the Irish taxpayer has to pay back, yet so many of the blind and stupid followers believe he is still whiter than white.

    I don't believe the man is whiter than white. Far from it. He did plenty wrong and, like you, I will be paying for it through levies and the various taxes we pay now to cover the bank bailouts.

    What I can recognise however is that the man did plenty of good as well as all the bad of the past few years.

    Like I said, yes we are paying back 2.8 billion but what about all the jobs he has created, taxes that have been paid from his employees and companies over the years, and still are being? What about the welfare that has been saved because these people have jobs? I don't think this should be forgotten.


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