The End of JoePa in Penn State

tallaghtoutlaws

Don't know if any of you guys have been following the latest College Ball news but Joe Paterno's Ex long serving Assistant Coach Jerry Sandusky has been accused of Child Abuse on 8 accounts. It is thought that Paterno and a few others were involved in the cover up of some of these allegations in the past. And now it seems Penn State will have no choice but to offload Paterno who has been a Coach in Penn State since 1950, 45 of those as Head Coach.

All the links here:

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/penn-state-coach-abuse-scandal-14891354

http://abcnews.go.com/US/penn-state-scandal-paterno-speak-tomorrow/story?id=14894985#.TrlosXJSmBI

http://abcnews.go.com/US/joe-paterno-penn-state-president-cancel-appearances/story?id=14905312#.TrlopnJSmBI

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7207730/penn-state-nittany-lions-call-joe-paterno-news-conference

This is sad for two different reasons. JoePa is/was one of the greatest college football coaches of all time and he will truly missed. But it will also be sad to hear if it is true that he helped cover up this mess in any way

Spongey1975

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

This is sad for two different reasons. JoePa is/was one of the greatest college football coaches of all time and he will truly missed. But it will also be sad to hear if it is true that he helped cover up this mess in any way

Havent seen much about this but I dont think he helped cover it up (maybe his silence on the matter at the time will be construed as helping cover it up). He was only required to report it to his supervisor and thats what he did. The men further up the ladder didnt report it to police and they are the ones who've been arrested now. However there will be a lot of pressure for him to resign from non football groups

tallaghtoutlaws

Spongey1975 wrote: »

Havent seen much about this but I dont think he helped cover it up (maybe his silence on the matter at the time will be construed as helping cover it up). He was only required to report it to his supervisor and thats what he did. The men further up the ladder didnt report it to police and they are the ones who've been arrested now. However there will be a lot of pressure for him to resign from non football groups

Well thats exactly it though. His silence will be seen as part of the cover up. Although by law he did nothing wrong as he reported it to his supervisor etc etc most wont see that as doing enough. Many will ask why didn't he report it if his bosses failed to do so ye know. The moral aspect will totally come into to play here. It also doesnt help Paterno that Sandusky was a very good friend of his.

Its sad though over all. Either way Football loses a guy who has won more games than any other coach in college football.

Peyton Manning

Hope Joe isn't involved.

I always figured him as the type who'd give you a werthers original and ruffle your hair while recalling the price of things "back in his day".

Clearly, covering up child sex abuse does not fit into this image I have of him.

Chucky the tree

He should resign. While legally he might not have done anything wrong I think what he did morally is completely unacceptable.

Dohnny Jepp

Agree with chucky here. He may not have legally been required to do anymore than he did. But ethically and morally and every other ally, he really let himself down. When it comes to the protection of kids everyone should be willing to help and do what's neccesary

padraig_f

Good piece on Grantland today about it: Growing Up Penn State

frostie500

Chucky the tree wrote: »

He should resign. While legally he might not have done anything wrong I think what he did morally is completely unacceptable.

Yeah its tough not to agree with you Chucky. As great a coach as Joe Pa is he has to go for this. Its sad that one of the greatest coaches in history will no longer be in the game but as you say morally it is unacceptable.

Joe will surely say that he brought the issue to the AD, which he did, and that he did his part as coach of the school and if the board decided not to take the matter any further than who was he to do to take action but now that everything has come to light Penn State will have no option but to end this era

Peyton Manning

He's retiring at the end of the season. Sad to see it all end like this and how quickly 61 years can come crashing down.

fisgon

Been following some of the American media coverage on this. The guy Sandusky was first accused of molestation in 1999, and was caught red handed in 2002, I think. People knew about these events, including Paterno. Sandusky then ran youth camps. Imagine, they let him run youth camps, and no-one raised any objections, including Paterno.

It has echoes of all the stuff that went on here with the church, cover up, people not going to the police. There's enough blame to go around, but Paterno definitely shares responsibiliy for Sandusky being given free rein. Besides, how much actual coaching was he doing now, the guy is 85 ffs, apparently he can't even hear very well any more.

Dodge

Typical head in the stand stuff form the NCAA too. Will ban a kid for selling his jersey or swapping it for a tattoo

But cover up a paedophile and a) say nothing and b) allow him to do what he wants

steelcityblues

Cam Newton wrote: »

Hope Joe isn't involved.

I always figured him as the type who'd give you a werthers original and ruffle your hair while recalling the price of things "back in his day".

Clearly, covering up child sex abuse does not fit into this image I have of him.

You don't understand the mentality of most Catholics of his generation.

Peyton Manning

steelcityblues wrote: »

You don't understand the mentality of most Catholics of his generation.

I was joking Buzz Killington

eagle eye

Cam Newton wrote: »

I was joking Buzz Killington

It certainly didn't come across as a 'joke'. Wheres the smiley to give us a clue?

Dohnny Jepp

eagle eye wrote: »

It certainly didn't come across as a 'joke'. Wheres the smiley to give us a clue?

There is a smiley there! But only us cool kids can see it :P

LuckyLloyd

Anyone interested in this, needs to read the Grand Jury Report:

http://i.usatoday.net/sports/college/football/2011-11-05-sandusky-grand-jury.pdf

PeakOutput

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

This is sad for two different reasons. JoePa is/was one of the greatest college football coaches of all time and he will truly missed. But it will also be sad to hear if it is true that he helped cover up this mess in any way

Emm sorry but its sad for one major reason that you forgot about and that is that at least one boy was RAPED and 8 others abused over the course of at least ten years when adults knew what was going on and covered it up. if this was a respected priest in the community you wouldn't be giving him as much leeway.

For what its worth it sounds like joe wants to talk to the press and is being stopped by the university so far. To me this suggests that he has something to say that may explain his role in it so maybe he isn't as much at fault as some of the others but its hard to get away from the facts here and they are

one of the staff walked into the showers ten years ago and witnessed this person raping a ten year old

that person left without stopping the rape and told his father and then they both went to joe and told him

thats what we know so far besides that nothing was done to the rapist at the time or since then.

another fact is this person was in charge of bringing kids to campus for some sor tof outreach programme and he was witnessed bringing kids to the college teams training by the people who knew about the rape at least once

eagle eye

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Anyone interested in this, needs to read the Grand Jury Report:

http://i.usatoday.net/sports/college/football/2011-11-05-sandusky-grand-jury.pdf

Is there something about Paterno in it? Reason I ask is reading something like that is horrifying and I'd prefer not to.

eagle eye

PeakOutput wrote: »

Emm sorry but its sad for one major reason that you forgot about and that is that at least one boy was RAPED and 8 others abused over the course of at least ten years when adults knew what was going on and covered it up. if this was a respected priest in the community you wouldn't be giving him as much leeway.

For what its worth it sounds like joe wants to talk to the press and is being stopped by the university so far. To me this suggests that he has something to say that may explain his role in it so maybe he isn't as much at fault as some of the others but its hard to get away from the facts here and they are

one of the staff walked into the showers ten years ago and witnessed this person raping a ten year old

that person left without stopping the rape and told his father and then they both went to joe and told him

thats what we know so far besides that nothing was done to the rapist at the time or since then.

another fact is this person was in charge of bringing kids to campus for some sor tof outreach programme and he was witnessed bringing kids to the college teams training by the people who knew about the rape at least once

Welcome to the forum, is this your first post on this forum? Are you interested in football?

eagle eye

Paterno just got fired. Breaking news right now.

PeakOutput

eagle eye wrote: »

Welcome to the forum, is this your first post on this forum? Are you interested in football?

Thanks. No. Yes.

Dodge

PeakOutput wrote: »

one of the staff walked into the showers ten years ago and witnessed this person raping a ten year old

that person left without stopping the rape and told his father and then they both went to joe and told him

This guy still has a job, unbelievably. Now I realise its hard for graduate assistants at US colleges, and he didn't want to 'wreck' the chance of a lifetime

But how could you watch a 10 year old be sodomised and not attempt to stop it?

Thankfully Penn State at least did the right thing and sack the people who made the decision to cover it up, including paterno

tallaghtoutlaws

PeakOutput wrote: »

Emm sorry but its sad for one major reason that you forgot about and that is that at least one boy was RAPED and 8 others abused over the course of at least ten years when adults knew what was going on and covered it up. if this was a respected priest in the community you wouldn't be giving him as much leeway.

Where did I say that the rape and abuse wasn't sad? When I posted this thread only more of how involved Paterno was, was only coming out. Not only that I was only talking about Joe Paterno and was not going to go into the abuse stuff and what Sandsuky did or didn't do.

As for the Priest comments? Do you know me? No you don't so how do you know what my feelings are on any of this subject? :rolleyes:

LuckyLloyd

eagle eye wrote: »

Is there something about Paterno in it? Reason I ask is reading something like that is horrifying and I'd prefer not to.

Bottom half of page 6 through to page 12.

PeakOutput

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Where did I say that the rape and abuse wasn't sad?

I said you forgot to mention it not that you didnt think it. It is the most important part of the story and i think that paterno is getting far too much support because he has had such a great legacy. I dont think his legacy is ruined entirely or even mostly and with a decent explanation it could be repaired a lot I believe but I think that its awfull to have people jumping to his defence and showing support to him when we dont even know the identity of the boy who was raped in the shower. were is the support for the abused and their families. Were is the apology for how the situation was handled. once these things are done then it will be time for judging how his legacy has been affected

As for the Priest comments? Do you know me? No you don't so how do you know what my feelings are on any of this subject? :rolleyes:

Firstly I was using 'you' in the royal/plural sense, as this is a discussion forum and not a personal chat room.

secondly I know your feelings on it or at least some of them because you (singular this time) posted them in your very first post

This is sad for two different reasons. JoePa is/was one of the greatest college football coaches of all time and he will truly missed. But it will also be sad to hear if it is true that he helped cover up this mess in any way

tallaghtoutlaws

PeakOutput wrote: »

I said you forgot to mention it not that you didnt think it. It is the most important part of the story and i think that paterno is getting far too much support because he has had such a great legacy. I dont think his legacy is ruined entirely or even mostly and with a decent explanation it could be repaired a lot I believe but I think that its awfull to have people jumping to his defence and showing support to him when we dont even know the identity of the boy who was raped in the shower. were is the support for the abused and their families. Were is the apology for how the situation was handled. once these things are done then it will be time for judging how his legacy has been affected

Joe Paterno is morally guilty for not reporting the incident to the Authorities. None of us can comment on his frame of mind and why he didn't think it necessary to report it to the authorities and he thought reporting it to his supervisors was enough. I am for one am not about to throw a guy under a bus without until the full story comes out and Im talking both sides.

And when I said its sad that he is involved in the cover up I mean its sad in the sense that it goes against the way I see Joe Paterno as an individual and how my respect for him will probably go to sh1te if more and more evidence comes out making him look like a complete scumbag about the whole thing. If it does that is.

secondly I know your feelings on it or at least some of them because you (singular this time) posted them in your very first post

They were my feelings expressed about Joe Paterno not about Child abuse or anything along them lines.

eagle eye

All I seen when reading that was that he reported it to senior college officials. Nothing wrong witn that. I can understand him not going to the police. Its very possible that he was listening to a long time good friend who was denying that anything had happened. What would you do in that situation? Would you report it to the police? I think I'd have done what he did, if I even had an inkling of doubt about whether he did it or not, and reported it to senior management in the college.

Dodge

eagle eye wrote: »

All I seen when reading that was that he reported it to senior college officials. Nothing wrong witn that. I can understand him not going to the police. Its very possible that he was listening to a long time good friend who was denying that anything had happened. What would you do in that situation? Would you report it to the police? I think I'd have done what he did, if I even had an inkling of doubt about whether he did it or not, and reported it to senior management in the college.

I'd have at least asked "hey, remember the other day when I reported that Sandursky was seen raping a ten year old? what happened with that?". I'd have asked did they talk to McQueary. I'd have asked did they try and attempt to identify the kid. When they answered no to both of these*, I'd have had a few questions

And when they told me that they had instructed Sandursky not to bring any more kids into the shower room, I'd have had a few other follow up questions too...

Then I might've got a gun and shot Sandursky in the balls

--

*they'd have told me that they haven't spoken to mcQueary as thats what they told the Grand Jury. They've been indicted on perjury charges for this...

vinny chase

I'd always had huge respect for JoePa, but his position on this would seem to be absolutely untenable.

I, and I think almost anyone who has ever supported him, would absolutely welcome him to come forward with any comments clarifying his stance and position on this, but it would seem from the outset that it is very difficult to explain your way out of this.

Granted, he did the standard defined thing and brought it to people above him, but morally, that's nowhere near enough.

PeakOutput

eagle eye wrote: »

All I seen when reading that was that he reported it to senior college officials. Nothing wrong witn that. I can understand him not going to the police. Its very possible that he was listening to a long time good friend who was denying that anything had happened.

There was an eye witness and there were questions about his behaviour with children before

What would you do in that situation? Would you report it to the police? I think I'd have done what he did, if I even had an inkling of doubt about whether he did it or not, and reported it to senior management in the college.

The fact that you put the welfare of an adult, friend or not, over the welfare of even one child not to mention the potentially hundreds or thousands that he was exposed to over the last 10 years is extremely worrying.

personally I would have done what he did whilst insisting that it be rigorously investigated, I would have tried to personally ensure that the child in question was helped in anyway possible and if I didnt think it was being dealt with satisfactorily or if I thought there was the slightest hint of a cover up (ie the police not immediately notified once there is any sort of evidence of wrongdoing or inappropriate behaviour) I would personally report it to the local police.

Dodge

It should be noted that the 2002 incident was the second time Sandursky was reported for stuff like this. In the 1998 incident when asked by the mother if he had touched her son, he replied "I don't know... maybe". Police officials listened to this conversation

He was investigated by the University and the police. There's absolutely no way Paterno wasn't aware of it.

As an aside, the investigating officer went missing shortly after the decision not to bring it to trial, and his PC was found washed up several months later...

PeakOutput

Dodge wrote: »

As an aside, the investigating officer went missing shortly after the decision not to bring it to trial, and his PC was found washed up several months later...

I think I heard it was the district prosecutor that went missing but it could have been the cop. That is an interesting aside to the story as well although I am sure it is probably unrelated. They were saying on the radio that to this day they have no idea if he was killed, ran away or committed suicide

Dodge

PeakOutput wrote: »

I think I heard it was the district prosecutor that went missing but it could have been the cop. That is an interesting aside to the story as well although I am sure it is probably unrelated. They were saying on the radio that to this day they have no idea if he was killed, ran away or committed suicide

My apologies, it was the prosecutor

http://deadspin.com/5857966/the-mystery-of-ray-gricar-the-prosecutor-who-failed-to-prosecute-jerry-sandusky-and-who-might-be-dead?tag=penn-state-scandal

Just another very strange episode in this whole saga

amacachi

My internet is borked so downloading PDFs or even sites I haven't been on before is a no-no so what's the latest? Still seem like legally he did everything right?

Amerika

A couple of questions…

What government agency individuals should be brought to shame for dropping the ball in 1998 regarding Sandusky, thus allowing his crimes to continue?

Is this the same college board of directors that fired Paterno before getting all the facts, yet continue to defend Dr. Michael Mann, author of the scientific fraud and fictional "Hockey Stick" climate plot?

Also… A good read:
http://www.opednews.com/articles/Lynching-Joe-Paterno-in-th-by-Walter-Uhler-111108-300.html

Dodge

Amerika wrote: »

What government agency individuals should be brought to shame for dropping the ball in 1998 regarding Sandusky, thus allowing his crimes to continue?

As many as neccessary. YOu have to wonder why he retired at 55 in 1999 when that becomes prime coaching age. Despite being a top DC he was never offered another job. So who else knew?

Is this the same college board of directors that fired Paterno before getting all the facts, yet continue to defend Dr. Michael Mann, author of the scientific fraud and fictional "Hockey Stick" climate plot?

Don't know anything about Michael Mann, but do you not think the Grand Jury findings were enough to Fire Paterno and the rest?

Amerika

Dodge wrote: »

As many as neccessary. YOu have to wonder why he retired at 55 in 1999 when that becomes prime coaching age. Despite being a top DC he was never offered another job. So who else knew?

Yes, including the district attorneys office, the police, the department of public welfare, and child and youth protective services. Perhaps if they did their jobs correctly, subsequent crimes would not have been committed. Will anyone of them suffer or lose their jobs? And Sandusky probably retired and never coached again becasue of the 1998 matter.

Don't know anything about Michael Mann, but do you not think the Grand Jury findings were enough to Fire Paterno and the rest?

The grand jury findings alone are enough to fire Paterno. Perhaps as more information comes out I will change my tune, but as of right now it appears to be a rush to judgement against Paterno. The grand jury report does not claim Paterno did anything wrong or lied. He did report the second hand info and vague report of what he was informed to Shultz, who was in charge of campus police (who are real police). The report indicates that it was Schultz who was in violation of failing to report.

Dodge

Amerika wrote: »

Yes, including the district attorneys office, the police, the department of public welfare, and child and youth protective services. Perhaps if they did their jobs correctly, subsequent crimes would not have been committed. Will anyone of them suffer or lose their jobs?

I hope anybody who contributed to more children being raped is punished. Whats your point here?

And Sandusky probably retired and never coached again becasue of the 1998 matter.

it was a simple retirement why would he remain with an office on campus? If it was a 'simple' retriement you think paterno asked him why? You're trying to suggest its because of the 1998 incident. So how do you think that conversation went?

The grand jury findings alone are enough to fire Paterno. Perhaps as more information comes out I will change my tune, but as of right now it appears to be a rush to judgement against Paterno. The grand jury report does not claim Paterno did anything wrong or lied.

It found out he did not report the incident to police. Thats enough for me.

He did report the second hand info and vague report of what he was informed to Shultz, who was in charge of campus police (who are real police). The report indicates that it was Schultz who was in violation of failing to report.

"vague report". Sweet ****ing jesus

Syferus

Penn State, even with the size of the circus surrounding the case, probably should have given Paterno at least a farewell game if not until the end of the season. That'd have at least mitigated against the sheer shock of it for the students and the town and avoided alot of the scenes we've seen and probably will see on Saturday and for the rest of the season.

vetinari

I'm a bit puzzled as to why Paterno is taking the most heat here. He was told a serious allegation and reported it to his superiors. In terms of moral obligation, surely the person who actually SAW the rape take place should have gone to the authorities.

Imagine if someone came to you and said they saw a friend of yours rape a 10 year old boy. They then DON'T go to the authorities. I know it sounds shocking but I'd be questioning whether it was true. I mean who in their right mind witnesses a rape and doesn't tell the authorities. Am I missing something here? Paterno could have done more but for me surely all the "moral indigation" should fall on the key witness.

PeakOutput

vetinari wrote: »

I'm a bit puzzled as to why Paterno is taking the most heat here. He was told a serious allegation and reported it to his superiors. In terms of moral obligation, surely the person who actually SAW the rape take place should have gone to the authorities.

Paterno is taking the most heat because he is the head honcho on campus. He had a superior in title only (the director of athletics). In Penn state nobody was more important, had more influence or took as much authority as he did. With all that comes a responsibility as well, one he did not live up to in this particular case. His superior (I believe) has been arrested as it was his responsibility to report it to the authorities and he didn't. I have only recently been into college football for the last year or so but every commentator I have heard talk about him says the same thing, there wasn't anyone on campus going against him and he set the atmosphere if he took interest in something you did if he wanted something left alone it was left alone.

Both joe and the witness did everything they were supposed to do legally, morally however they both fell way way short.

I just heard on the thundering herd on espn that there was a third time this guy was caught in the act and it was still all brushed under the carpet. This podcast and the mike and mike podcast would make very interesting listening today for anyone that is interested

eagle eye

PeakOutput wrote: »

There was an eye witness and there were questions about his behaviour with children before



The fact that you put the welfare of an adult, friend or not, over the welfare of even one child not to mention the potentially hundreds or thousands that he was exposed to over the last 10 years is extremely worrying.

personally I would have done what he did whilst insisting that it be rigorously investigated, I would have tried to personally ensure that the child in question was helped in anyway possible and if I didnt think it was being dealt with satisfactorily or if I thought there was the slightest hint of a cover up (ie the police not immediately notified once there is any sort of evidence of wrongdoing or inappropriate behaviour) I would personally report it to the local police.

How on earth do you make out that I'm putting the welfare of an adult before a child? How dare you accuse me of that.

I'm simply saying that in a situation where its a friend who you've known a long time its not the done thing to go to the police yourself. You pass it along to the people who are in charge of the school and let them proceed.

What you don't seem to understand is that there are victims on both sides of this. The family of the accused(if he has one) are victims in this too, they may also be close friends of Paterno. You have to understand that his position in all of this is very difficult. You don't go to the police on a friend if you believe he may be innocent. I personally believe that Paterno made a very sensible and mature decision on this at the time. What you are talking about is aftermath, how do you know Paterno was not told that everything was dealt with and there was nothing to the incident? Would Paterno be wrong to take them at their word if that was the case?

vetinari

exactly, this is the point I was trying to make. God forbid something like this happens at your place of work. Someone comes to you with allegations and you tell your superior. The expectation would be that the accuser would go to the cops or your superiors. If neither do, then you're left in a difficult spot. Do you go down to the police station and say someone came to me with serious allegations but doesn't want to report it?

What happens if you tell the cops and the accuser backs out of telling his story? You'd have no evidence and you'd just have accused someone of being a paedophile.

Dodge

Seriously? You'd worry how people saw you if you were told about a grown man raping a 10 year old and reported it to the police? We're not talking about putting it on TMZ, we're talking about reporting the raping of a child to the police...

And to answer the original query, we're talking about Paterno because he's the person we know. We don't know the AD and all the various VPs. He's the one in the public eye, so he's being discussed

I don't think anyone thinks Paterno is at the heart of the problems, or even one of the worst offenders. But it was still absolutely correct that he was sacked.

eagle eye

Dodge wrote: »

Seriously? You'd worry how people saw you if you were told about a grown man raping a 10 year old and reported it to the police? We're not talking about putting it on TMZ, we're talking about reporting the raping of a child to the police...

And to answer the original query, we're talking about Paterno because he's the person we know. We don't know the AD and all the various VPs. He's the one in the public eye, so he's being discussed

I don't think anyone thinks Paterno is at the heart of the problems, or even one of the worst offenders. But it was still absolutely correct that he was sacked.

Really you don't have a clue whether that was the right decision or not. You are only surmising like the rest of us. We don't really know what went on there. If he was lead to believe that everything had been dealt with in the correct manner then its wrong that he was sacked. I'd imagine thats not the case because he has been sacked but I don't know.

Dodge

I've read the grand Jury, and I've read everything Paterno and penn state have said

I'm ok with saying it was absolutely the right decision

vetinari

Dodge wrote: »

Seriously? You'd worry how people saw you if you were told about a grown man raping a 10 year old and reported it to the police? We're not talking about putting it on TMZ, we're talking about reporting the raping of a child to the police...

And to answer the original query, we're talking about Paterno because he's the person we know. We don't know the AD and all the various VPs. He's the one in the public eye, so he's being discussed

I don't think anyone thinks Paterno is at the heart of the problems, or even one of the worst offenders. But it was still absolutely correct that he was sacked.

Yes I would worry about reporting a rape allegation if the person who told me about it wouldn't tell the police. I'd have no proof, only second hand testimony. He doesn't even know who the victim was. How does that work down at the police station?

"Well officer, a coworker told me he witnessed x raping someone. That person won't report it though. I don't know who it was he raped either"

If the police approach the accuser and he denies it telling you about it, you look like you're making a false accusation.

Dodge

but you're Joe Paterno, if you tell a graduate assistant to do it, he does it.

It was the Penn State way...

PeakOutput

eagle eye wrote: »

How on earth do you make out that I'm putting the welfare of an adult before a child? How dare you accuse me of that.

You said it yourself thats how I make it out. You said if you had an inkling of doubt (an inkling? really?) you would not report it to the police, that, imo, is putting the welfare of the adult ahead of that of the child. I would do it the other way if I had an inkling of something like this happening I would be reporting it to someone and if there was any more then an inkling I would be into my superiors to tell them im on the way to the cop shop. If I am wrong I am wrong but the alternative is unacceptable.

I'm simply saying that in a situation where its a friend who you've known a long time its not the done thing to go to the police yourself. You pass it along to the people who are in charge of the school and let them proceed.

yes and when they do nothing and the person is continued to be allowed work with kids after multiple allegations what do you do then? forget about it? are you mad?

What you don't seem to understand is that there are victims on both sides of this. The family of the accused(if he has one) are victims in this too, they may also be close friends of Paterno.

Whos' fault is that?

You have to understand that his position in all of this is very difficult. You don't go to the police on a friend if you believe he may be innocent.

He was witnessed (twice now it emerges) performing sexual acts on a child. You should have went to the police the first time not to mind the second.

What you are talking about is aftermath, how do you know Paterno was not told that everything was dealt with and there was nothing to the incident? Would Paterno be wrong to take them at their word if that was the case?

Someone comes to me and says they personally saw this happening. I report it onwards and then get told there was nothing to it, I would at the very least go back to the person who told me they saw it and ask them to clarify exactly what they saw.

Here is a timeline of events from the AP http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/09/penn-state-scandal-timeline-jerry-sandusky_n_1084204.html?ref=mostpopular

I strongly recommend people you read it and then think if they can still possibly hold the same opinion that these people might not have known enough to report anything. This was a repeated pattern.

One particular point of note is that before the 2002 incident this happened

1998 – Victim 6 is taken into the locker rooms and showers when he is 11 years old. When Victim 6 is dropped off at home, his hair is wet from showering with Sandusky. His mother reports the incident to the university police, who investigate.

Sandusky says he has showered with other boys and Victim 6's mother tries to make Sandusky promise never to shower with a boy again but he will not. At the end of the second conversation, after Sandusky is told he cannot see Victim 6 anymore, Schreffler testifies Sandusky says, "I understand. I was wrong. I wish I could get forgiveness. I know I won't get it from you. I wish I were dead."

Jerry Lauro, an investigator with the Pennsylvania Department of Public Welfare, testifies he and Schreffler interviewed Sandusky, and that Sandusky admits showering naked with Victim 6, admits to hugging Victim 6 while in the shower and admits that it was wrong.

Fall 2000 – A janitor named James Calhoun observes Sandusky in the showers of the Lasch Football Building with a young boy, known as Victim 8, pinned up against the wall, performing oral sex on the boy. He tells other janitorial staff immediately. Fellow Office of Physical Plant employee Ronald Petrosky cleans the showers at Lasch and sees Sandusky and the boy, who he describes as being between the ages of 11 and 13.

what the **** was he doing near any children after that? How could paterno (lifelong friend and colleague apparently) NOT know that this had happened. How could the rest of the system not know that this had happened.

He has been banned from highschool premises, he has been told not to take kids to campus, these things were not secrets and he was allowed carry on in charge of a childrens charity and he was allowed free reign on campus.

I am sorry but there is only one right side of the argument on this one and while I dont demonise paterno or think he is a bad person I think that at best this was a huge error in judgement on his part (and others) and being fired for that error in judgement is completely fair.

LuckyLloyd

Mark May on the situation - must watch

Lirange

Just read this. Just in case anyone would still doubt that an immediate dismissal was not justified:

After that Paterno did nothing according to the grand jury’s “finding of fact” and his repeated statements this week. He didn’t call the police. He didn’t follow up with his superiors.

He had no problem as Sandusky maintained access to the Nittany Lions football facility, even working out in the weight room last week, long after Paterno had been forced to testify to the grand jury and knew Sandusky was under investigation for child molestation.

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