DCM Class of 2011- the continuing challenge

Younganne · 30-09-2012 9:45pm

Emer911 wrote: »

That was a really tough run though Anne, so I'm sure it'll stand to you. After the taper you'll be raring to go and all these tough days will be worth it (I hope! )

Emer thats what i kept telling myself to get me through:o.
Looks like you did a tough run yourself, by choice :eek:;).
Well done on the hills.

ecoli · 30-09-2012 11:02pm

Younganne wrote: »

Emer, after todays run i'm not confident, but as i tell the Novices, i can't let 1 bad run knock me!!!:o

I would be the opposite about your run today. I know you probably found this hard but that is because this is a very tough session in many ways.

Varying your pace on a regular basis is quite hard on the body and is not the most efficient way to run so you will find running constant pace (even MP) wont be as bad.

This session also provides some great mental training as it simulates the latter parts of the race. It trains you body to up the pace even when you are tired. This will stand to you on race day in the latter stages if at any stage the pace starts to lag you will have prepared yourself to be able to dig in and up the pace if needed.

The fact you were able to get through it and manage to hold and increase the MP paces would count as a resounding success.

I have paced this session for a few sub 3 hopefuls over the last few years and even though I was running at paces which in comparison to my usual easy and Marathon paces was quite slow I still found it was severe on the legs.

I will post next weeks training up in the morning just give you guys a chance to relax for the night and not worry about it. Tomorrow is off anyway:D

rom · 30-09-2012 11:28pm

"Emer, after todays run i'm not confident, but as i tell the Novices, i can't let 1 bad run knock me!!!"

I went out and tried to do a 20M a few weeks ago. I had to stop at like 12 miles as I felt faint. They guy I was running with was like are you alright. tbh I wasn't I hat to stop. It was a bad day. I felt like a failure and the worry started. What if .... etc.. The following weekend I went out and did 22M and felt super strong at the end. Everyone has bad days. It is not a single long run that prepares you for a big race but the months and months or years or prep that you have done before that. Rome was not built in a day.

If you hit every session every time then you are not training hard enough. I have had to stop I think 2 long runs because I wasn't well during them. If you mess up a session then we get stressed that we are not good enough.
Tomorrow is another day and the only long run that matter is in a few weeks time.

Younganne · 01-10-2012 10:41am

ecoli wrote: »

I would be the opposite about your run today. I know you probably found this hard but that is because this is a very tough session in many ways.

Varying your pace on a regular basis is quite hard on the body and is not the most efficient way to run so you will find running constant pace (even MP) wont be as bad.

This session also provides some great mental training as it simulates the latter parts of the race. It trains you body to up the pace even when you are tired. This will stand to you on race day in the latter stages if at any stage the pace starts to lag you will have prepared yourself to be able to dig in and up the pace if needed.

The fact you were able to get through it and manage to hold and increase the MP paces would count as a resounding success.

I have paced this session for a few sub 3 hopefuls over the last few years and even though I was running at paces which in comparison to my usual easy and Marathon paces was quite slow I still found it was severe on the legs.

I will post next weeks training up in the morning just give you guys a chance to relax for the night and not worry about it. Tomorrow is off anyway:D

rom wrote: »

"Emer, after todays run i'm not confident, but as i tell the Novices, i can't let 1 bad run knock me!!!"

I went out and tried to do a 20M a few weeks ago. I had to stop at like 12 miles as I felt faint. They guy I was running with was like are you alright. tbh I wasn't I hat to stop. It was a bad day. I felt like a failure and the worry started. What if .... etc.. The following weekend I went out and did 22M and felt super strong at the end. Everyone has bad days. It is not a single long run that prepares you for a big race but the months and months or years or prep that you have done before that. Rome was not built in a day.

If you hit every session every time then you are not training hard enough. I have had to stop I think 2 long runs because I wasn't well during them. If you mess up a session then we get stressed that we are not good enough.
Tomorrow is another day and the only long run that matter is in a few weeks time.

Thanks Guys for the words of encouragement. I knew that it was going to be a difficult workout so at the back of my mind i was kinda prepared for it, so although it was tough and it knocked my confidence a bit i know that it will stand to me in the long run, but its nice to have that confirmed. And i know its natural to start doubing your ability...oh no Taper will be fun!!!
This time 4 weeks we'll be almost halfway!!:D

rom · 01-10-2012 11:09am

Younganne wrote: »

This time 4 weeks we'll be almost halfway!!:D

Now your making me nervous

ecoli · 01-10-2012 11:52am

@Jimh its an interesting approach alright and I suppose if the aim is to complete the marathon (i.e worried about the distance) I guess this approach makes sense as staleness does not become as much of an issue

Best of luck with the plan

BobMac104 · 01-10-2012 11:57am

so ive finally decided to leave dublin out this year. I decided after the half last week but weirdly the class of dcm2011 have been the hardest to tell. I made alot of silly errors after cork, thinking i would waltz around dublin in 3:15. Coming back too early and burning out just has had me running poorly since then. As I said after the half in charleville i reckon i am just back to where i was before going into cork and if i forced myself to do Dublin the very best i could hope for would be a 3:25 and i would be wrecked then for the winter again probably.
So i am changing direction and am going full tilt into the cross country season with the club. It will be a new experience and will hopefully give me a bit of strenght leading into the spring 10 milers with the long term goal of a 3:15 in Cork all going well.

I'll keep logging here though if ye dont mind! Best of luck to ye all with it!

ecoli · 01-10-2012 12:06pm

BobMac104 wrote: »

so ive finally decided to leave dublin out this year. I decided after the half last week but weirdly the class of dcm2011 have been the hardest to tell. I made alot of silly errors after cork, thinking i would waltz around dublin in 3:15. Coming back too early and burning out just has had me running poorly since then. As I said after the half in charleville i reckon i am just back to where i was before going into cork and if i forced myself to do Dublin the very best i could hope for would be a 3:25 and i would be wrecked then for the winter again probably.
So i am changing direction and am going full tilt into the cross country season with the club. It will be a new experience and will hopefully give me a bit of strenght leading into the spring 10 milers with the long term goal of a 3:15 in Cork all going well.

I'll keep logging here though if ye dont mind! Best of luck to ye all with it!

Fair play on making the sensible choice and listening to the body. This is often the hardest thing to do no matter what level you are at. XC is a great chance to build strength and enjoy racing without worrying about times which someimes ya need (in the same boat myself this winter doing XC season for the first time in a long while)

Younganne · 01-10-2012 12:07pm

BobMac104 wrote: »

so ive finally decided to leave dublin out this year. I decided after the half last week but weirdly the class of dcm2011 have been the hardest to tell. I made alot of silly errors after cork, thinking i would waltz around dublin in 3:15. Coming back too early and burning out just has had me running poorly since then. As I said after the half in charleville i reckon i am just back to where i was before going into cork and if i forced myself to do Dublin the very best i could hope for would be a 3:25 and i would be wrecked then for the winter again probably.
So i am changing direction and am going full tilt into the cross country season with the club. It will be a new experience and will hopefully give me a bit of strenght leading into the spring 10 milers with the long term goal of a 3:15 in Cork all going well.

I'll keep logging here though if ye dont mind! Best of luck to ye all with it!

Rob sounds like a very wise decision if thats the way you are feeling at the minute. After all its not all about marathons, but good quality running to keep the enjoyment there.

Best of luck with the cross country, i used to love it as a kid, and i always ran in my barefeet!! I hope you are ready to get wet and mucky!!!;)

Looking forward to reading your weekly reports from the muck!!:D

BobMac104 · 01-10-2012 1:59pm

Thanks for the support guys! yes, looking forward to some racing and leaving the watch in the car as its position that counts.

as you said Anne " its not all about marathons"

Bring on the muck!

ecoli · 01-10-2012 10:22pm

Right folks last big week and I know a lot of people are probably tired and finding it tough but after this week we will be starting into the taper so that you have that to look forward to

|Mon|Tue|Wed|Thur|Fri|Sat|Sun|
|Rest|5 mile easy|6 miles|Session|20 min recovery|5 miles easy|LSR

Session - 3 miles easy, 4 miles tempo (HM pace), 3 miles easy

22 miles LSR

For this one I would recommend maybe a meet up with a few people from the Boards group training runs at the weekend in the park for hopefully a bit of company as most people will probably be doing there last big long run.

As always any questions just ask

Younganne · 02-10-2012 2:49pm

ecoli wrote: »

Right folks last big week and I know a lot of people are probably tired and finding it tough but after this week we will be starting into the taper so that you have that to look forward to

|Mon|Tue|Wed|Thur|Fri|Sat|Sun|
|Rest|5 mile easy|6 miles|Session|20 min recovery|5 miles easy|LSR

Session - 3 miles easy, 4 miles tempo (HM pace), 3 miles easy

22 miles LSR

For this one I would recommend maybe a meet up with a few people from the Boards group training runs at the weekend in the park for hopefully a bit of company as most people will probably be doing there last big long run.

As always any questions just ask

Ecoli,
This might be a silly question but i need clarity:o..for the session is the 4m all done at the HMP, with the easy 3m before and after acting as the warm up & cool down?
And the 6m on Wednesday what sort of pace?

ecoli · 02-10-2012 2:52pm

Younganne wrote: »

Ecoli,
This might be a silly question but i need clarity:o..for the session is the 4m all done at the HMP, with the easy 3m before and after acting as the warm up & cool down?
And the 6m on Wednesday what sort of pace?

Yes 3 miles warm up and cooldown with 4 miles continuously in middle

Sorry the 6 miles is easy pace

pistol_75 · 02-10-2012 4:26pm

Hi guys,

have just been catching up with some of the sessions you are doing here and some great training going on.

ecoli,

Could I ask you a question? I'm doing the Athlone 3/4 marathon on sunday and trying to figure out the best way to run it without racing it flat out? The organisers recommend it as 1/3 MP +10% & 2/3 MP +5% but I would like to do some of it at MP as my recent LSR's have been slow enough with getting the miles in the main priority.

The options I see is a few miles warm up, x no of miles at MP, and a cool down or some sort of pyramid session that I see you had people do last week.

What are your thoughts on the best way to approach it and get the most from it?

ecoli · 02-10-2012 5:18pm

pistol_75 wrote: »

Hi guys,

have just been catching up with some of the sessions you are doing here and some great training going on.

ecoli,

Could I ask you a question? I'm doing the Athlone 3/4 marathon on sunday and trying to figure out the best way to run it without racing it flat out? The organisers recommend it as 1/3 MP +10% & 2/3 MP +5% but I would like to do some of it at MP as my recent LSR's have been slow enough with getting the miles in the main priority.

The options I see is a few miles warm up, x no of miles at MP, and a cool down or some sort of pyramid session that I see you had people do last week.

What are your thoughts on the best way to approach it and get the most from it?

One option you could do is P & D style say 10 miles easy and 9 miles @ MP which would be a tough workout in itself

Or you could do as ou have proposed and take first few miles easy then MP and then back to easy but personally I would find it really hard to slow down in a race especially after I had been running at a quicker pace but still had more in the tank

Jimh · 04-10-2012 7:55pm

My taper has started a bit earlier than most but I am going to try to do my remaining longer runs at Marathon Pace - today I got 13 Km in 5:31Km pace -well inside the 4:00Marathon pace. I have a 20Km at the weekend and I will try the same again

Did Athlone for last two years but giving it a miss this year as I can't help doing it at MP and I paid the price in the 2nd half at Dublin last year

Emer911 · 08-10-2012 12:21am

Name|Weeks Sessions|Weeks Total|Monthly Total|Yearly total|Comments
BobMac104| | | |1581.83| |
rom| | | |1668||
Younganne| | | 879.68m| |
red face dave ||||341||
Nules10 ||||276.3| |
run44||||482.1m||
Scriba ||||253.84m||
Emer911|5 (sort of)|42.31 |42.31 |953.00| minor injury on Thursday so had to cut the run short and take a couple of days off. But did get the last 20mi LSR completed successfully (if slowly)

Had a minor injury on Thursday so had to cut the run short. After a sports massage Friday was advised to take Saturday off and only do the 20mi LSR if there was no pain. All good TG, and the last big LSR was completed successfully (if slowly)

Phew!

rom · 08-10-2012 9:12am

Jimh wrote: »

My taper has started a bit earlier than most but I am going to try to do my remaining longer runs at Marathon Pace - today I got 13 Km in 5:31Km pace -well inside the 4:00Marathon pace. I have a 20Km at the weekend and I will try the same again
Did Athlone for last two years but giving it a miss this year as I can't help doing it at MP and I paid the price in the 2nd half at Dublin last year

So an inverse taper ? Can't see that being a good idea.

Younganne · 08-10-2012 12:26pm

Name|Weeks Sessions|Weeks Total|Monthly Total|Yearly total|Comments
BobMac104| | | |1581.83| |
rom| | | |1668||
Younganne| 6| 50.96|50.96|930.64|very happy with 22.1m LSR done yesterday, had a bit left in the tank and did the Kyber at 20.5m so very positive overall and now BRING IT ON!!!:D highest mileage week for me |
red face dave ||||341||
Nules10 ||||276.3| |
run44||||482.1m||
Scriba ||||253.84m||
Emer911|5 (sort of)|42.31 |42.31 |953.00| minor injury on Thursday so had to cut the run short and take a couple of days off. But did get the last 20mi LSR completed successfully (if slowly)

very happy with 22.1m LSR done yesterday with great company which always helps and had a bit left in the tank, and did the Kyber at 20.5m so very positive overall and now BRING IT ON!!!:D

ecoli · 08-10-2012 10:05pm

Right people its the time you have all been looking forward to......... Taper time:D. Though before people think its easy sailing for the next three weeks to "rest up" think again. The aim of the taper is to reduce volume rather than reduce intensity. This is done so that while the body is still able to recover and iron out any niggle you are not becoming stale from lack of quality work.

Here is this weeks plan

|Mon|Tue|Wed|Thur|Fri|Sat|Sun|
|Rest|4 mile easy|5 miles|Session|20 min recovery|5 miles easy|Session 2

Session 1 - 2 miles easy, 5 x 1 mile @ MP w/ 2 min rec, 2 miles easy

Session 2 - 2 miles easy, 4,3,2,1 miles @ MP with 3 min jog rec between, 2 miles easy (total mileage approx 15 including recoveries)

Any other questions just ask

Younganne · 08-10-2012 11:00pm

ecoli wrote: »

Right people its the time you have all been looking forward to......... Taper time:D. Though before people think its easy sailing for the next three weeks to "rest up" think again. The aim of the taper is to reduce volume rather than reduce intensity. This is done so that while the body is still able to recover and iron out any niggle you are not becoming stale from lack of quality work.

Here is this weeks plan

|Mon|Tue|Wed|Thur|Fri|Sat|Sun|
|Rest|4 mile easy|5 miles|Session|20 min recovery|5 miles easy|Session 2

Session 1 - 2 miles easy, 5 x 1 mile @ MP w/ 2 min rec, 2 miles easy

Session 2 - 2 miles easy, 4,3,2,1 miles @ MP with 3 min jog rec between, 2 miles easy (total mileage approx 15 including recoveries)

Any other questions just ask

Hi Ecoli,
I was planning on heading to the Meath Running group on Wednesday evening and i was just wondering if for the session 1 if this could be 5 x 4mins @ 3-5k pace instead of the 5x1m. I know its not the same distance but the effort would be similar or a bit higher,
i could do 3m wu & 3m cd to bring the mileage up. What do you think?

ecoli · 09-10-2012 8:52am

Younganne wrote: »

Hi Ecoli,
I was planning on heading to the Meath Running group on Wednesday evening and i was just wondering if for the session 1 if this could be 5 x 4mins @ 3-5k pace instead of the 5x1m. I know its not the same distance but the effort would be similar or a bit higher,
i could do 3m wu & 3m cd to bring the mileage up. What do you think?

Ideally at this stage if the plan I tend to try and avoid Vo2 max type sessions however I know some coaches and training plans advocate this (P & D comes to mind) so its fine to swap this but keep the warm up and cooldown as originally planned and dont worry about the extra mileage

Younganne · 09-10-2012 5:22pm

Thanks Ecoli.
the plan for the last 3 week are:

5 x 4min with 2mins recovery,
5 x 3mins, 80 sec recovery,
5 x 2 mins, 1min rec

hope this can fit in with your plans, as i'd like to attend them.

Emer911 · 14-10-2012 8:07pm

Name|Weeks Sessions|Weeks Total|Monthly Total|Yearly total|Comments
BobMac104| | | |1581.83| |
rom| | | |1668||
Younganne| 6| 50.96|50.96|930.64|very happy with 22.1m LSR done yesterday, had a bit left in the tank and did the Kyber at 20.5m so very positive overall and now BRING IT ON!!!:D highest mileage week for me |
red face dave ||||341||
Nules10 ||||276.3| |
run44||||482.1m||
Scriba ||||253.84m||
Emer911|5 |33.97 |76.27 |986.97| Good week. Did both of the sessions (well, a version of them :rolleyes:) Feeling positive.

A good week. Did both of the sessions (well, a version of them :rolleyes:) Feeling positive

Younganne · 15-10-2012 2:02pm

Name|Weeks Sessions|Weeks Total|Monthly Total|Yearly total|Comments
BobMac104| | | |1581.83| |
rom| | | |1668||
Younganne| 3| 12.25|63.21|942.89|a bit of a setback for me this week as I've hurt my hip/back, not too sure. Physio tonight to try and get it sorted

|
red face dave ||||341||
Nules10 ||||276.3| |
run44||||482.1m||
Scriba ||||253.84m||
Emer911|5 |33.97 |76.27 |986.97| Good week. Did both of the sessions (well, a version of them :rolleyes:) Feeling positive.

a bit of a setback for me this week as I've hurt my hip/back, not too sure. Physio tonight to try and get it sorted. I only managed 3 runs and couldn't do anymore!!

ecoli · 15-10-2012 5:47pm

Apologies on the delay with this (and to the few other people I need to get back to dont worry I will in the next 24 hours)

Here is this weeks plan

|Mon|Tue|Wed|Thur|Fri|Sat|Sun|
|Rest|4 mile easy|4 miles|Session|20 min recovery|4 miles easy|14 miles easy

Session - 2 miles easy 2x2 miles @ MP with 4 min rec, 2 miles rec

@Younganne Dont worry about the niggles you are doing the right thing at the moment play it safe and listen to the body. The taper is the time to iron out the niggles and let your body rest up somewhat after a heavy training stint. The last few weeks have been tough without a doubt but you have put in the work. Always better to err on the side of caution during the taper

Any other questions just leave them here and I will get back to them as soon as possible

ecoli · 15-10-2012 5:48pm

Younganne wrote: »

Thanks Ecoli.
the plan for the last 3 week are:

5 x 4min with 2mins recovery,
5 x 3mins, 80 sec recovery,
5 x 2 mins, 1min rec

hope this can fit in with your plans, as i'd like to attend them.

See how your body feels this week and if you wanna hop in go for it but the taper week I will have something specifically designed for the marathon that is a very important aspect to racing which I find really helps my athletes usually so I will ask you to miss that week in order to do the taper session

Younganne · 17-10-2012 12:23pm

ecoli wrote: »

See how your body feels this week and if you wanna hop in go for it but the taper week I will have something specifically designed for the marathon that is a very important aspect to racing which I find really helps my athletes usually so I will ask you to miss that week in order to do the taper session

Thankfully the problem is only muscular and hopefully has been sorted with dryneedling. I was the 3rd runner doing the marathon in with the same injury on Monday...overworked! (my muscle, not me!!!

)

I'm resting it till Thursday and then go for a run and see how it is, back in next Monday for re-analysis!!
She says she will tape it for me to get me throught the marathon, if needed!

Ecoli, i think i'll leave the speed work for the rest of the plan and just stick to what you post!!!

This week, all going well tomorrow, i'll slot into the week from tomorrow and if i can i might replace the Friday 20min recovery with the session, what'd you think??

Jimh · 17-10-2012 8:30pm

I seem to have developed what feels like a bruise on the sole of my left footi but no apparent injury , I don't feel it when I am running but can feel it when I am not - I am icing it today.
My Nike Pegasus have covered about 500Km and I did not want to change so close to the marathon - But I don't even know if this is the cause. I am just worried that though I can't feel it at the moment when running it may cause issues over 26 miles
I have covered 800Km since the end of July and I am 15 stone so I suppose I have been putting bit of pressure on the old feet and I have had them over 52 years

rom · 17-10-2012 9:50pm

Jimh wrote: »

I seem to have developed what feels like a bruise on the sole of my left footi but no apparent injury , I don't feel it when I am running but can feel it when I am not - I am icing it today.
My Nike Pegasus have covered about 500Km and I did not want to change so close to the marathon - But I don't even know if this is the cause. I am just worried that though I can't feel it at the moment when running it may cause issues over 26 miles
I have covered 800Km since the end of July and I am 15 stone so I suppose I have been putting bit of pressure on the old feet and I have had them over 52 years

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1U7CJR3QGhs