Filthy atheists stealing our Christmas

pH

lazygal wrote: »

What's "Christmass" stuff?

Yes - it's worth mentioning when various theists talk about "Christmas stuff" they are normally referring to the secular/pagan traditions and not about anything actually "Christian".

If you think of all the things we associate with Christmas - turkey, fir trees, lights, presents, plum puddings, mincemeat, Santa, decorations, cakes, cards etc. then pretty much all of it has nothing to do with Jesus' birth. Yes the devout might add a manger and sing a carol or two but it's small compared to the other stuff.

Also it's amusing to hear the "It's *called* CHRISTmas THEREFORE it's about teh baby JESUS" argument from Christians who presumably get extremely confused around Easter?

Also what's with Protestants and Christmas? Catholics yes, Catholicism is the bible + extra catholic stuff they made up (like celebrating a catholic MASS on the 25th December), but surely Protestantism is the rejection of all the additional Catholic rubbish and a return to the biblical roots of Christianity - how they can continue with an obviously made up Catholic tradition of a mass on a fairly arbitrary date is beyond me.

Pixie Chief

Also what's with Protestants and Christmas? Catholics yes, Catholicism is the bible + extra catholic stuff they made up (like celebrating a catholic MASS on the 25th December), but surely Protestantism is the rejection of all the additional Catholic rubbish and a return to the biblical roots of Christianity - how they can continue with an obviously made up Catholic tradition of a mass on a fairly arbitrary date is beyond me.[/QUOTE]

Ah, we're finished with all that protesting stuff now! We just want everybody to get along. Plus there is no reason we can't celebrate christmas really. When the syphilitic king denied getting his end away in a marital capacity tore a bunch of pages out of the mass book, he obviously left in the christmas service bits. Otherwise, we would have had to come up with something of our own. Obviously.

martingriff

oldrnwisr wrote: »

Sure thing.

Firstly it goes without saying that Jesus wasn't actually born on December 25th. There is no date mentioned in either of the two nativity accounts (neither of which agree) and the details contained in the accounts (e.g. Bethlehem, shepherds etc.) make it unlikely to have occurred in December.

The explanation for Christmas being in December is that Christianity is a syncretic religion. It steamrolls over older religions and incorporates the things that it finds useful. A lot of the stories in the bible, for example are lifted directly from earlier mythological traditions, Babylonian, Sumerian, Egyptian, Greek etc. However, one of the recurring themes of Christianity is taking elements of other religions and recasting them to make them evil or weak. Let's take a few examples.

Ba'al is the name of an old semitic deity whose worship predates Judaism. In fact Baal worshippers would have been a rival religion for the burgeoning Abrahamic tradition. As a result, Baal's full name in the old testament is changed from Ba'al Zabul (lord on high) to Beelzebub (lord of the flies).

In the Old Testament we have the story of Elisha who feeds 100 men with just 20 barley loaves. (2 Kings 4:42-44). The story is retold in the new testament (Matthew 14:13-33, Mark 6:31-52, Luke 9:10-17, John 6:1-21), but this time Jesus feeds an even greater number with even less food.


Christmas is just another Christian rewrite. A lot of previous mythological traditions had a winter celebration e.g. Saturnalia. This tradition originated as a celebration of the triumph of light over dark manifest in the winter solstice. Some of the Christmas customs still practiced (i.e. holly and ivy) reflect these ancient beliefs.

Most of the trappings of what Christians accept as Christianity turn out to have pagan roots of some sort. There is a very good treatment of this in Pagan Christianity

I say you could say all religons are like this. Its a call all and make it easier for them to assemilate. Resistance is futile

lazygal

martingriff wrote: »

I say you could say all religons are like this. Its a call all and make it easier for them to assemilate. Resistance is futile

Srsly? :rolleyes:

Sarky

I'd call it AnalMaggotf*ckgasm Season if I still got presents, tinsel and a few days off work.

martingriff

lazygal wrote: »

Srsly? :rolleyes:

a joke my lady

the_syco

MrPudding wrote: »

CHRISTmas blah blah blah

Always confuse them with "if xmas happened on the 25th, why are the years counted from the 1st...?" :P

lazygal

the_syco wrote: »

Always confuse them with "if xmas happened on the 25th, why are the years counted from the 1st...?" :P

Because of the birth of Santa.

seamus

"Happy Holidays" just sounds stupid. It's too non-descript. You could be talking about your two weeks in Mosney. If people don't like using "Christmas", then something which is suitably generic yet specific to December is the way to go, like "Festivus".

MrPudding

Unforgettable _ Fire wrote: »

I still say "Merry Christmas" out of habit. "Happy Holidays" sounds very... corporate or something

I use merry christmas too. Quite happily.

MrP

Frank Lee Midere

the_syco wrote: »

Always confuse them with "if xmas happened on the 25th, why are the years counted from the 1st...?" :P

That question would confuse anyone.

Bannasidhe

seamus wrote: »

"Happy Holidays" just sounds stupid. It's too non-descript. You could be talking about your two weeks in Mosney. If people don't like using "Christmas", then something which is suitably generic yet specific to December is the way to go, like "Festivus".

Or good old Yule Tide

Yule or Yuletide ("Yule time") is a religious festival observed by the historical Germanic peoples, later being absorbed into and equated with the Christian festival of Christmas. The earliest references to Yule are by way of indigenous Germanic month names (Ærra Jéola (Before Yule) or Jiuli and Æftera Jéola (After Yule). Scholars have connected the celebration to the Wild Hunt, the god Odin and the pagan Anglo-Saxon Modranicht.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yule

Frank Lee Midere

seamus wrote: »

"Happy Holidays" just sounds stupid. It's too non-descript. You could be talking about your two weeks in Mosney. If people don't like using "Christmas", then something which is suitably generic yet specific to December is the way to go, like "Festivus".

Yuletide is your man.

long range shooter

Looks like everyone is trying to sabotage christmas these days,lol

http://patriotstatesman.com/2011/11/muslims-demand-all-citizens-stop-celebrating-christmas-or-there-will-be-hell-to-pay/

Pherekydes

long range shooter wrote: »

http://patriotstatesman.com/2011/11/muslims-demand-all-citizens-stop-celebrating-christmas-or-there-will-be-hell-to-pay/

Fresh conservative commentary on a wide range of topics from politics and culture to religion and family.

Does not compute!

FutureGuy

Christmas has always been about family for me, not religon. A few days to spend with everyone I care about.

Belly full of turkey, films on the tv, a few drinks in the fridge. Nothing to do but talk and laugh.

Duggy747

It's not Christmas for me unless I'm watching Willy Wonka & The Chocolate Factory.

Sonics2k

Person: "Happy holidays to you!"
Me: "Fúck off"

I hate this bloody special holiday nonsense.

Bannasidhe

Duggy747 wrote: »

It's not Christmas for me unless I'm watching Willy Wonka & The Chocolate Factory.

Not Xmas til I see a Famous Grouse ad.

Mr_A

In my case, it's not Christmas until Bad Santa is on TV.

"I beat the **** out of some kids today. But it was for a purpose. It made me feel good about myself. It was like I did something constructive with my life or something, I dunno, like I accomplished something."

robindch

I'm staying up to watch the Bond Movie.

J C

wrote:

robindch
Being a good bible-believing "christian", you won't be putting up a tree, will you, JC?

Hi Robin.
Firstly, Happy Christmas ... I know it may be a little early to offer Seasonal Greetings ... but given the thread that's in it ... why not?

Secondly, I'm answering your question, even though it isn't on the topic of the thread, because you have asked it.
Therefore, could I ask that nobody come along subsequently to accuse me of 'de-railing' the thread ... when all I have done is answered your questions.
Anyway, to answer your question ... I will of course, as a liberal Christian, be putting up a Christmas Tree ... it's all part of the excitement and fun of Christmas, especially for our children.

wrote:

robindchI'm asking on account of Jeremiah 10:1-5:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremiah 10:1-5
Hear ye the word which the Lord speaketh unto you, O house of Israel: Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

Firstly, you should note that God was speaking to the House of Israel ... who were under Law at the time...
... Secondly, the prohibition was on learning the way of the heathen i.e. worshipping a tree as an idol.

Christians are living under God's grace and I don't worship my Christmas tree ... so its perfectly OK to have a Christmas Tree.

wrote:

robindch
Before you answer, remember - your gods' law doesn't change!

God's Law doesn't change ... but in this case I'm not breaking it ... as it doesn't apply to a Christian in the Church era, with a tree in their sitting room ... or indeed the timber from a tree in their floorboards!!!

Anyway, getting back to the topic of what atheists are doing at Christmas ... will you be dangling a Dawin Santa from your tree?

... and do you think it will become a 'must have' item for Atheists this Christmas?

Bannasidhe

J C wrote: »

Anyway, getting back to the topic of what atheists are doing at Christmas ... will you be dangling a Dawin Santa from your tree?

... and do you think it will become a 'must have' item for Atheists this Christmas?

Xena takes pride of place on top of my tree - why on Earth would I want to replace her with a Dawin (not sure if this is Darwin or Dawkin but it makes no difference either way)?

Sarky

There's J C, arguing that God's Law doesn't apply to him in this instance.

J C

MrPudding wrote: »

I hate to disappoint you JC, but I really don't think we can be friends. I have many friends, and they are a varied bunch, young and old, highly educated and not not highly educated, male and female, religious and non-religious. Whilst they are many and varied they all have one thing in common, I can respect them.

I can't ever respect you JC, ever. So I'm sorry, but we can't be friends.

MrP

I respect every man ... including yourself.

My hand remains outstretched to you in peace and Christian love ... even if friendship is impossible, at your insistence,

J C

Sarky wrote: »

There's J C, arguing that God's Law doesn't apply to him in this instance.

I don't adore my timber hall stairs and landing ... and I also don't adore my timber Christmas Tree!!!
.. so Jeremiah 10:1-5 doesn't apply to me in any instance ... and it also doesn't apply to anybody else, unless they are adoring their Christmas Tree as an idol.
... which seems unlikely, these days TBH.

J C

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Xena takes pride of place on top of my tree

Sounds a little painful for poor old Xena!!!:)

Bannasidhe wrote: »

- why on Earth would I want to replace her with a Dawin (not sure if this is Darwin or Dawkin but it makes no difference either way)?

It could be a wonderful conversation piece.

Zed Bank

Christmas should be made a secular holiday. All the **** I have to put up with this time of year "You hypocritical Marxist scum!'

Brian Shanahan

seamus wrote: »

"Happy Holidays" just sounds stupid. It's too non-descript. You could be talking about your two weeks in Mosney. If people don't like using "Christmas", then something which is suitably generic yet specific to December is the way to go, like "Festivus".

Go talk to the American christians then, they created the phrase.

J C

Zed Bank wrote: »

Christmas should be made a secular holiday. All the **** I have to put up with this time of year "You hypocritical Marxist scum!'

I say "Happy Christmas Zed" ... and ignore the begrudgers.
The Christmas Holiday is already a mixture of the religious and the secular ... a good model for other issues that divide us ... perhaps???