Racism - Mod Note on 1st Post - Read before posting.

YouTookMyName

tommyhaas wrote: »

Have you seen all the evidence?

No. Just stinks a little bit that 90 mins of football and 4 weeks later we get this.



I expected the FA to realise that this is quite a sensitive subject matter, between two players who play for bitter rivals. I expected the FA to realise that releasing an official statement saying they're "charging Luis Suarez" would lead to the average football fan believing that they have now found him guilty of being a racist, and therefore might actually word it a little better than that or at least release some details regarding the next steps for both parties.

Bottom line, they've treated a sensitive subject with all the subtlety of a sledgehammer. Look at the yellow ticker on SSN, as far as anyone who's watching is concerned Luis Suarez has been found guilty. Even the resident manc popped on to say "they likely have evidence if he's been charged", that's what people automatically think.

Like i said the FA are bastards.

This was supposedly coming for days, after Suarez said he used the word negro - not negrito.

Boils down to a cultural misunderstanding. Be interesting to see how the FA work it out.

The FA could have said they've arranged a hearing for both parties involved and go from there.

TheBigLebowski

nullzero wrote: »

There's a difference between calling someone a standard insulting name and using racial abuse to insult somebody. I doubt anyone here would be too happy about being refered to in the terms Irish people were refered to in the past (Apes, inbred, terrorists etc...), so why should we not be upset about racist abuse?

To be honest, I'd be more upset about personal things being said about my family or insulting my big nose or my fat arse than any of those things....much more personal than just generic abuse.

Nalz

TheBigLebowski wrote: »

To be honest, I'd be more upset about personal things being said about my family or insulting my big nose or my fat arse than any of those things....much more personal than just generic abuse.

Again a lot of people agree with you including myself but our personal opinions on what is taboo and/or incorrect is irrelevant.

For once I kind of agree with Blatter. Players shake hands at the end of a game. On the pitch its a battle and "sticks and stones break your bonds but words should never harm you" philosophy should come into play here...if it creeps into the stands and off the pitch its another ordeal I feel.

tommyhaas

YouTookMyName wrote: »

No. Just stinks a little bit that 90 mins of football and 4 weeks later we get this.

Bollox, you haven't seen the evidence yet you're criticising the FA for charging him. I'm not saying he should or shouldn't have been charged, as we haven't seen the evidence. When we do then fair enough, form an informed opinion

I expected the FA to realise that releasing an official statement saying they're "charging Luis Suarez" would lead to the average football fan believing that they have now found him guilty of being a racist

Hang on now, its not the FA's fault that some people are idiots, and can't differentiate between being charged and being found guilty

Will I Amnt

I wouldn't rule out them having video evidence.
Just because it wasn't shown on sky sports news doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

I've yet to see sky footage of the Terry incident yet and they definitely have that as it was shown live yet I've never seen them replay it on the news,just the YouTube videos.

_blank_

homerjay2005 wrote: »

i agree with this, the racism card is played far too much in life these days. when i worked in tech support on the phones, we got the old chest nut "your doing this cos im from XXXX and i is XXXX".

This actually happened to me when you used to sit beside me I think, some woman, with an English accent, was complaining because her emails weren't coming through. There was nothing I could do for her over the phone and I needed to send it to the next level or something.

She actually accused me of being racist because she was black, and if she was white I'd be helping her more.

I was in disbelief. How could I know she was black!!

I actually wasn't helping her because she was English, but that isn't racism :pac:

amiable

cambo2008 wrote: »

I wouldn't rule out them having video evidence.
Just because it wasn't shown on sky sports news doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

I've yet to see sky footage of the Terry incident yet and they definitely have that as it was shown live yet I've never seen them replay it on the news,just the YouTube videos.

I can honestly say i've seen the John Terry footage at least 20 times on Sky Sports News

Kess73

Mr Alan wrote: »

LOL at the faffing here.

As Slick said if he's found guilty of racially abusing him, he should face serious sanction.
However, what worries me about the FA's statement is that they're charging him with being abusive toward Evra.....I didn't realise the FA could take action over two players trashtalking eachother on the pitch? They certainly never have before to the best of my knowledge.

The wording of the statement is awful.

If he's found guilty, is it of abusing Evra-or or racial abuse? The FA can't leave any room for ambiguity here. They really can't. One is a massive offence, the other shouldn't even nearly be an issue.

If Suarez is found guilty without any shadow of doubt of having made racist comments, then he needs to be punished harshly and swiftly, which is pretty much the same opinion I stated in the superthread in the days after the incident.

But if it were a thing that he gets a punishment for abusive language that is not racist, then the FA are leaving themselves open for players to be complained about game after game, and will have set a precedent by charging Suarez, and also will leave themselves for not doing anything in the past when players regularly get seen on camera roaring abuse at other players, or officials.

Fuhrer

Kess73 wrote: »

But if it were a thing that he gets a punishment for abusive language that is not racist, then the FA are leaving themselves open for players to be complained about game after game, and will have set a precedent by charging Suarez, and also will leave themselves for not doing anything in the past when players regularly get seen on camera roaring abuse at other players, or officials.

This charge of abuse states clearly that it includes a reference to racism

amiable

Fuhrer wrote: »

This charge of abuse states clearly that it includes a reference to racism

No it doesn't say racism

Leiva

Luis Suarez and John Terry will be found guilty and will face lengthy bans (longer than anyone will expect ) the line will then be drawn in the sand and the FA will have dealt with a issue that's be at a loose end for decades .

They wouldn't have brought it this far without knowing the full course of action they intend on taking .

niallo27

Fuhrer wrote: »

This charge of abuse states clearly that it includes a reference to racism

He never said it didn't, he is saying if he is found guilt of abuse not including racism, then the fa are inviting trouble on themselves.

Fuhrer

amiable wrote: »

No it doesn't say racism

included a reference to the ethnic origin and/or colour and/or race of Patrice Evra."

Try reading that.

amiable

mixednuts wrote: »

Luis Suarez and John Terry will be found guilty and will face lengthy bans (longer than anyone will expect ) the line will then be drawn in the sand and the FA will have dealt with a issue that's be at a loose end for decades .

They wouldn't have brought it this far without knowing the full course of action they intend on taking .

I don't think it's as easy as that unless there is really clear evidence.
I can see a lengthy legal battle here with Liverpool throwing their full weight behind it.

Will I Amnt

amiable wrote: »

cambo2008 wrote: »

I wouldn't rule out them having video evidence.
Just because it wasn't shown on sky sports news doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

I've yet to see sky footage of the Terry incident yet and they definitely have that as it was shown live yet I've never seen them replay it on the news,just the YouTube videos.

I can honestly say i've seen the John Terry footage at least 20 times on Sky Sports News

Really??I've mentioned this a few times and never really got a reply so I presumed they hadn't shown it as all I could find was footage people recorded at home with their cameras pointed at the telly.
I've been away so didn't see sky sports.
Ah well that's my theory gone anyway.

YouTookMyName

Fuhrer wrote: »

This charge of abuse states clearly that it includes a reference to racism

Fuhrer wrote: »

Try reading that.

FA statement uses the word 'alleged' twice & the phrase 'and/or' repeatedly, which indicates that there is still a clear element of doubt.

amiable

Fuhrer wrote: »

Try reading that.

Yes and i don't see the word racism in there as you said.

I had read it before and in fact i posted the FA statement on this thread.

Maybe you could try reading it?

Blatter

Mr Alan wrote: »

LOL at the faffing here.

As Slick said if he's found guilty of racially abusing him, he should face serious sanction.
However, what worries me about the FA's statement is that they're charging him with being abusive toward Evra.....I didn't realise the FA could take action over two players trashtalking eachother on the pitch? They certainly never have before to the best of my knowledge.

The wording of the statement is awful.

If he's found guilty, is it of abusing Evra-or or racial abuse? The FA can't leave any room for ambiguity here. They really can't. One is a massive offence, the other shouldn't even nearly be an issue.

He's been charged with racial abuse, it's pretty clear from the statement. If he's found guilty of the charge, he will be guilty of racism. No Ambiguity there, it's quite clear cut actually.

What's interesting in this is, The FA surely have some sort of evidence, why charge him otherwise?

Whether the evidence is strong enough to find Suarez guilty is another matter.

It's possible that the evidence is Suarez's apparent admission he used the term Negro/Negrito. Or maybe that have TV evidence from some station that gas kept quiet about the whole thing pending the investigation.

We'll have to wait and see.

Fuhrer

amiable wrote: »

Yes and i don't see the word racism in there as you said.

I had read it before and in fact i posted the FA statement on this thread.

Maybe you could try reading it?

I did


I had enough reading skills to understand that abusing someone with a reference to their ethnic origin or race, was racism.


Is there anyone else that doesnt think thats what that means?

Al Capwned

amiable wrote: »

Yes and i don't see the word racism in there as you said.

I had read it before and in fact i posted the FA statement on this thread.

Maybe you could try reading it?

"The FA has today charged Liverpool's Luis Suarez following an incident that occurred during the Liverpool versus Manchester United fixture at Anfield on 15 October 2011.

"It is alleged that Suarez used abusive and/or insulting words and/or behaviour towards Manchester United's Patrice Evra contrary to FA rules.

"It is further alleged that this included a reference to the ethnic origin and/or colour and/or race of Patrice Evra.

"The FA will issue no further comment at this time."

amiable

alproctor wrote: »

"The FA has today charged Liverpool's Luis Suarez following an incident that occurred during the Liverpool versus Manchester United fixture at Anfield on 15 October 2011.

"It is alleged that Suarez used abusive and/or insulting words and/or behaviour towards Manchester United's Patrice Evra contrary to FA rules.

"It is further alleged that this included a reference to the ethnic origin and/or colour and/or race of Patrice Evra.

"The FA will issue no further comment at this time."

I still don't see the word racism in that statement

amiable

Fuhrer wrote: »

I did


I had enough reading skills to understand that abusing someone with a reference to their ethnic origin or race, was racism.


Is there anyone else that doesnt think thats what that means?

You don't have them any more?

amiable

The facts are he's not been found guilty of anything and the club are still firmly behind him.

Still innocent until proven guilty.

If he's proven guilty i hope he's punished properly.

tommyhaas

alproctor wrote: »

"The FA has today charged Liverpool's Luis Suarez following an incident that occurred during the Liverpool versus Manchester United fixture at Anfield on 15 October 2011.

"It is alleged that Suarez used abusive and/or insulting words and/or behaviour towards Manchester United's Patrice Evra contrary to FA rules.

"It is further alleged that this included a reference to the ethnic origin and/or colour and/or race of Patrice Evra.

"The FA will issue no further comment at this time."

amiable wrote: »

I still don't see the word racism in that statement

Its pretty clear that abuse involving reference to race is racial abuse

killwill

tommyhaas wrote: »

Its pretty clear that abuse involving reference to race is racial abuse

Obviously not to everyone in here!!!

Gringo180

If found guilty how long a ban are we looking at for Suarez? 10 game ban??

tommyhaas

YouTookMyName wrote: »

FA statement uses the word 'alleged' twice & the phrase 'and/or' repeatedly, which indicates that there is still a clear element of doubt.

Are you serious?

They say alleged because its a charge yet to be proven. Its no different to any charge brought by the DPP over here. Its always alleged prior to a verdict being reached

killwill

I realise the FA are extremely inconsistent so I don't know if anyone can answer this but here goes anyway:
When an alleged incident occurs like this do the FA automatically charge the player in question as standard protocol or does this actually mean there is strong chance there was a racial issue?

I have given my opinion here before but it has changed slightly now.
I personally think the racial slur is a strong possibility especially after Suarez' comments on Uruguay television, however I believe it was in the heat of the moment and that he is not really a "racist".
If found guilty I would hate to see a player of that caliber suspended for an extended period. I think a public apology face to face with Evra and a huge fine paid to a charity of Evra's choice would suffice.
I realise this might sound soft to a pot of posters here and a ruling like that might not deter racism in football but I don't see any other ban working either.

Fuhrer

amiable wrote: »

You don't have them any more?

Yes, I do.


Is the rest of the thread going to be filled with these awful pathetic attempts to change the subject after you get caught out saying something stupid?

Blatter

@killwill

The FA had no obligation whatsoever to charge Suarez.

If he's found guilty he'll be looking at a 6-10 game ban + a hefty fine at the very least IMO.

The FA can't and won't be seen to be lenient with such issues.