Bus Eireann routes 109/109A Changes

tom23

lxflyer wrote: »

I disagree it's not visible - there are still lots of people paying cash on Dublin Bus yet every bus shelter has a notice advising of LEAP discounts.

A large number of Irish people are just not prepared to look at alternatives to paying cash - the only way to succeed is to ultimately make cash fares disproportionately higher than LEAP.

Quite ridiculous when the same people will then moan about the cost of everything.

Its wallpaper imo. We all know about Irish Water and its cost. Why? Its been in our face for the last year.

ailbheg

lxflyer wrote: »

I disagree it's not visible - there are still lots of people paying cash on Dublin Bus yet every bus shelter has a notice advising of LEAP discounts.

A large number of Irish people are just not prepared to look at alternatives to paying cash - the only way to succeed is to ultimately make cash fares disproportionately higher than LEAP.

Quite ridiculous when the same people will then moan about the cost of everything.

It might be advertised on every DB shelter, but it's less visible on BE, so people might not be aware that they can use it there too (not great given it's a year since it was launched). Some drivers are starting to tell people about it though.

Commuter109

Leap take up appears to be very low on the R109, which is a shame, and leads to situations like Tom described earlier i.e a 7.05 express taking 20 minutes plus to get out of Navan on a Monday morning, messing about with internet tickets and cash

I still think there's an element of confusion around the whole leap thing

Do I need one of the Leap cards with a picture on it or can I pre load my exisiting normal card that I use for Dublin bus/ Luas?
The buses I use ( express from / to Navan) are not leap enabled, so can I still use leap etc..

Stories, of people being put of buses because the card reader didnt recognise the card aren't going to help things either.

The new annual leap cards simply have your picture on it, no to or from in terms of destination or validity date, which leaves them rife for abuse on services with no leap card readers , and means if the card wont read you cant prove to driver that its valid for your journey

ailbheg

Commuter109 wrote: »

Do I need one of the Leap cards with a picture on it or can I pre load my exisiting normal card that I use for Dublin bus/ Luas?
The buses I use ( express from / to Navan) are not leap enabled, so can I still use leap etc..

Normal card is fine. As it's a route leap is valid on, yes you can.

Stories, of people being put of buses because the card reader didnt recognise the card aren't going to help things either.

They can't do that. If you have a leap card and the machine won't read it/they don't have a new Wayfarer, they can't turn you away.

The new annual leap cards simply have your picture on it, no to or from in terms of destination or validity date, which leaves them rife for abuse on services with no leap card readers , and means if the card wont read you cant prove to driver that its valid for your journey

That is a problem (for BE), especially as not all buses used on the routes on which you can use your leap card have machines capable of reading them.

foggy_lad

Commuter109 wrote: »

Do I need one of the Leap cards with a picture on it or can I pre load my exisiting normal card that I use for Dublin bus/ Luas?

Use your normal leap card for single or return journeys, for seasonal tickets you need to have a picture leap card.

The buses I use ( express from / to Navan) are not leap enabled, so can I still use leap etc..

Yes and you should be allowed travel free on any bus that does not have a working Leap card reader!

Stories, of people being put of buses because the card reader didnt recognise the card aren't going to help things either.

The NTA really needs to cop themselves on about this nonsense and come out and state that when the fault is with the equipment then the passenger travels free!

Obviously if the card is damaged it will show as a single issue affecting one single passenger and not everyone.

The new annual leap cards simply have your picture on it, no to or from in terms of destination or validity date, which leaves them rife for abuse on services with no leap card readers , and means if the card wont read you cant prove to driver that its valid for your journey

If the equipment is not fitted or not working on routes that are supposed to be leap enabled then anyone presenting a leap card should travel free!

LXFlyer

Commuter109 wrote: »

Leap take up appears to be very low on the R109, which is a shame, and leads to situations like Tom described earlier i.e a 7.05 express taking 20 minutes plus to get out of Navan on a Monday morning, messing about with internet tickets and cash

I still think there's an element of confusion around the whole leap thing

Do I need one of the Leap cards with a picture on it or can I pre load my exisiting normal card that I use for Dublin bus/ Luas?
The buses I use ( express from / to Navan) are not leap enabled, so can I still use leap etc..

Stories, of people being put of buses because the card reader didnt recognise the card aren't going to help things either.

The new annual leap cards simply have your picture on it, no to or from in terms of destination or validity date, which leaves them rife for abuse on services with no leap card readers , and means if the card wont read you cant prove to driver that its valid for your journey

Sorry to be technical about this, but I think it is important to make this distinction clear.

LEAP Cards are simply that - a card. Once again, the card is NOT a ticket. It is a card that can either be used as an epurse for pay-as-you-go travel using money that you have loaded onto it, and/or it can hold a period pass such as a Dublin Bus rambler ticket, a monthly/annual Dublin Bus/LUAS ticket. It can hold up to 5 different period passes concurrently.

Anyone who wants to use a monthly/annual pass need to have a personalised LEAP card. Otherwise, a standard LEAP card will suffice.

Next year, you will simply go to a payzone agent to get a new annual pass uploaded onto it just before the current one expires.

Go to the thread here for more info on what services you can use your card on:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057300937

If the bus operating the service does not have a LEAP enabled ticket machine, well that is Bus Eireann's problem not yours. You have a card from which they are obliged to accept for payment. If the machine is not working, then that again is their problem, and not yours.

The full list of Bus Eireann services in the eastern region that accept LEAP for pay-as-you-go is here:
http://www.buseireann.ie/inner.php?id=375

tara83

If you top up online do you need to validate it or can you validate the credit on the bus and get the 7 day ticket?

LXFlyer

tara83 wrote: »

If you top up online do you need to validate it or can you validate the credit on the bus and get the 7 day ticket?

If you top up online it requires you to subsequently visit your nominated "load location" to physically load the top-up amount onto the card.


That's either a payzone agent or an Irish Rail or LUAS ticket machine.


Online topups cannot be applied to your LEAP card via Dublin Bus or Bus Eireann onboard ticket machines due to their memory constraints.


You can select auto top-up alternatively. It automatically tops up your Leap Card with funds from your bank account, whenever your Travel Credit balance falls below €10. You can choose to Auto Top-Up by €30.00, €40.00 or €50.00. Note that this requires your card to be registered on the LEAP website and a direct debit to be set up.


With auto top-up there is no need to go near a payzone agent.

Commuter109

"If the equipment is not fitted or not working on routes that are supposed to be leap enabled then anyone presenting a leap card should travel free!"

"Yes and you should be allowed travel free on any bus that does not have a working Leap card reader!"

"They can't do that. If you have a leap card and the machine won't read it/they don't have a new Wayfarer, they can't turn you away."

I appreciate all the above, I just find it hard it hard to believe that this state of affairs is allowed pertain in a company that is loosing money at the rate BE are!

Furp

My personalised Leap card with my Blue Zone yearly ticket is seemingly on its way to me although it was supposed to start at the beginning of October, If it wont read or I get on a bus without a Leap reader I will not be accepting no travel as an answer.

EDIT:

Just received my personalised Leap card today, going to try it out on the journey home.

LXFlyer

Commuter109 wrote: »

"If the equipment is not fitted or not working on routes that are supposed to be leap enabled then anyone presenting a leap card should travel free!"

"Yes and you should be allowed travel free on any bus that does not have a working Leap card reader!"

"They can't do that. If you have a leap card and the machine won't read it/they don't have a new Wayfarer, they can't turn you away."

I appreciate all the above, I just find it hard it hard to believe that this state of affairs is allowed pertain in a company that is loosing money at the rate BE are!

It shouldn't happen on a day-to-day basis, but you will have occasions where readers are defective in a fleet the size that Dublin Bus or Bus Eireann possess.


As for buses not having the new wayfarer equipment, well that's their problem and it really should not be happening.

malene

and back to the thread topic.

The 109N didn't come through the Blanch slip road and i had to pay 50 for taxi home. BE refusing to pay me or give me complimentary ticket for my troubles. The customer service is ****!

Vic_08

malene wrote: »

and back to the thread topic.

The 109N didn't come through the Blanch slip road and i had to pay 50 for taxi home. BE refusing to pay me or give me complimentary ticket for my troubles. The customer service is ****!

This has come up here before, that is not a listed stop for the 109N. It is not on the running board and nowhere on the 109 or 109N Timetable is it listed.

horseburger

Vic_08 wrote: »

This has come up here before, that is not a listed stop for the 109N. It is not on the running board and nowhere on the 109 or 109N Timetable is it listed.

Blanchardstown Slip Road is mentioned on the 109 timetable, as a pick up point from Dublin to Navan ( Blanchardstown SC (Slip Rd Westtbound))

and a drop off point from Cavan through Navan to Dublin. (Blanchardstown SC (Slip Rd Eastbound))

http://buseireann.ie/pdf/1403523374-109.pdf

The 109N timetable states that it picks up at Blanchardstown Roundabout,

http://buseireann.ie/pdf/1293185310-109N.pdf

but, considering that malene has mentioned before about waiting at the Blanchardstown slip road stop for the 109N that leaves Bus Aras at 3.30am, and it not going by that stop, I guess that malene has got on the 109N from there on occasions previous to the night it didn't stop there?

Edit: malene mentioned in the original query on this issue that it has previously picked up at this stop

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=88449236&postcount=567

malene wrote: »

Let the rant begin. Came up to Dublin Saturday, one way ticket to Blanch as I was getting the 3.30 109N later which usually arrives on the slip road at about 3.50-4:0 a.m.

IT NEVER CAME THROUGH THE SLIP ROAD! I waited until about 4.30 and realized it wasn't coming, had to hail a taxi and that cost me €50. Its an absolute disgrace, not coming at a stop on a route and leaving the person stranded. I'm mailing BE now, is there a chance I'll get my €50. Problem is I paid cash and no receipt to prove it. I'll mail them anyway.


M

Vic_08

horseburger wrote: »

Blanchardstown Slip Road is mentioned on the 109 timetable, as a pick up point from Dublin to Navan ( Blanchardstown SC (Slip Rd Westtbound))

and a drop off point from Cavan through Navan to Dublin. (Blanchardstown SC (Slip Rd Eastbound))

http://buseireann.ie/pdf/1403523374-109.pdf

I drove the 109 for years, I am well aware where it stops, I was referring to the 109N service which is what the complaint is about.

In the full 109 table the 109N departures have no listing for Blanchardstown.

horseburger wrote: »

The 109N timetable states that it picks up at Blanchardstown Roundabout,

but, considering that malene has mentioned before about it not going by the Blanchardstown slip road stop stop where they were waiting for the 109N that leaves Bus Aras at 3.30am , I guess that malene has got the 109N from there on previous occasions?

The 109N table is old and has not been updated, the roundabout stop actually refers to the stop just beyond the M50 junction.

109N is AFAIR marked in so would mainly be driven by one of a small pool of drivers on rotation. When on holiday, sick or otherwise unavailable it will be driven by a spare man, for a night service most likely a junior recently recruited. While the regulars may well spin past the slip road stop a spare driver is likely to go by the running board and maybe the timetable, neither of which list the Blanchardstown stops.

Although they appear to be the same, as the 109N is a commercial service while the 109 is an NTA route the changes made to the 109 routing were not applied to the 109N as it is licensed separately.

My view on this is that obviously for the sake of uniformity the N should also pick-up at the slip road (I also think all the 109s should also only pick up there and not the centre, it is a 2 minute walk) but that is not what is currently shown on the boards or timetables.

Ideally a manager with responsibility for this route should be asked to clarify the situation and alter the timetables to clearly state that the stop is not served on the route or alter the boards to add it. Otherwise no matter if all the regular drivers do use it the stop will be passed on some occasions.

horseburger

Vic_08 wrote: »

I drove the 109 for years, I am well aware where it stops, I was referring to the 109N service which is what the complaint is about.
In the full 109 table the 109N departures have no listing for Blanchardstown.


The 109N table is old and has not been updated, the roundabout stop actually refers to the stop just beyond the M50 junction.

109N is AFAIR marked in so would mainly be driven by one of a small pool of drivers on rotation. When on holiday, sick or otherwise unavailable it will be driven by a spare man, for a night service most likely a junior recently recruited. While the regulars may well spin past the slip road stop a spare driver is likely to go by the running board and maybe the timetable, neither of which list the Blanchardstown stops.

Although they appear to be the same, as the 109N is a commercial service while the 109 is an NTA route the changes made to the 109 routing were not applied to the 109N as it is licensed separately.

My view on this is that obviously for the sake of uniformity the N should also pick-up at the slip road (I also think all the 109s should also only pick up there and not the centre, it is a 2 minute walk) but that is not what is currently shown on the boards or timetables.

Ideally a manager with responsibility for this route should be asked to clarify the situation and alter the timetables to clearly state that the stop is not served on the route or alter the boards to add it. Otherwise no matter if all the regular drivers do use it the stop will be passed on some occasions.

I had misread your sentence in my previous post. I had thought you were suggesting that that the slip road wasn't covered on the 109. I think now, that you were referring to the details on the 109 timetable pdf file, of the 109N intermediate stops, which lists only Ratoath, Dunshaughlin and Navan.

The 109N timetable lists Blanchardstown Roundabout among a number of pick up points:

"109N buses pick-up at: Penneys O’Connell St, Mater Hospital, Phibsborough
Church, Ashtown, Blanchardstown Roundabout, Clonee by-pass, Fairyhouse Cross".

I edited my first reply to you, to include the post from malene which indicates that they got the bus at the Blanchardstown slip road stop on previous occasions.

Vic_08

horseburger wrote: »

You mentioned that that there is no listing of the Blanchardstown slip road on the 109 timetable:


If you are aware of where it stops, why then are you being critical of me replying to state that that the 109 bus covers the slip road stops?

You are nit-picking, I was referring to the 109N not the 109.

horseburger wrote: »

Blanchardstown Roundabout is mentioned on the 109N pdf file in the link I included.

It states:

"109N buses pick-up at: Penneys O’Connell St, Mater Hospital, Phibsborough
Church, Ashtown, Blanchardstown Roundabout, Clonee by-pass, Fairyhouse Cross".

As I already explained, the timetable is old and has not been updated to reflect the changes in the road network, "Blanchardstown Roundabout" refers to the stop just north of the M50 near Blanch Village. "Clonee Bypass" is now the M3 so that is also well out of date.

horseburger wrote: »

I edited my reply to you, to include the post from malene which indicates that they got the bus at the slip road stop on previous occasions.

I also explained the reason that was likely to happen. The Blanchardstown slip road stop is not on the running board or the timetable for the 109N so any driver going only by that will not serve it, others that either know some people use the stop, do no realise it is not listed for the N route or those who are not sure and go up just in case are serving it.

TBH I think I explained all 3 of those points clearly in the previous post, if all you want is an argument about semantics find someone else to have it with.

horseburger

Vic_08 wrote: »

You are nit-picking, I was referring to the 109N not the 109.



As I already explained, the timetable is old and has not been updated to reflect the changes in the road network, "Blanchardstown Roundabout" refers to the stop just north of the M50 near Blanch Village. "Clonee Bypass" is now the M3 so that is also well out of date.



I also explained the reason that was likely to happen. The Blanchardstown slip road stop is not on the running board or the timetable for the 109N so any driver going only by that will not serve it, others that either know some people use the stop, do no realise it is not listed for the N route or those who are not sure and go up just in case are serving it.

TBH I think I explained all 3 of those points clearly in the previous post, if all you want is an argument about semantics find someone else to have it with.

I had just edited my reply to you - clarifying that I misread your sentence with regard to your reference to the 109 timetable - before I had read your message that I quote here. I am not trying to have an argument with you.

malene

Vic_08 wrote: »

This has come up here before, that is not a listed stop for the 109N. It is not on the running board and nowhere on the 109 or 109N Timetable is it listed.

SOME drivers stop there, some don't. But I wish the NRA or whoever would add the slip road as a compulsory stop. In future my other option is to just get a taxi BACK to the Halfway house and wait there for it to come from city centre. :mad:

horseburger

malene wrote: »

SOME drivers stop there, some don't. But I wish the NRA or whoever would add the slip road as a compulsory stop. In future my other option is to just get a taxi BACK to the Halfway house and wait there for it to come from city centre. :mad:

hi malene,

when you contacted Bus Éireann, was it clarified in its reply to you, whether or not that the slip road stop is an official pick up point on the 109N?

What response did you get to the issue of some drivers stopping there and some not?

The National Transport Authority operates in conjunction with Bus Éireann on changes to routes and the adding or taking away of stops on routes.

tara83

I would think the relatively poor uptake of the Leap card isnt surprising considering it is more expensive for a daily ticket then cash and the online weekly works out €4 cheaper. It's also very user unfriendly in comparison to using it on other methods of transport

LXFlyer

tara83 wrote: »

I would think the relatively poor uptake of the Leap card isnt surprising considering it is more expensive for a daily ticket then cash and the online weekly works out €4 cheaper. It's also very user unfriendly in comparison to using it on other methods of transport

That very much depends upon where you are travelling. The daily and weekly tickets are zonal based, which means that at the moment some places in those zones are cheaper using online, whilst others are cheaper using LEAP. Also remember that the LEAP products offer unlimited travel for 24 hours or 7 days.

I suspect that the NTA will make moves to change these sort of anomalies over time.

I'm not sure how it's "very user unfriendly" - you just put on the driver's machine?

LXFlyer

Vic_08 wrote: »

You are nit-picking, I was referring to the 109N not the 109.

As I already explained, the timetable is old and has not been updated to reflect the changes in the road network, "Blanchardstown Roundabout" refers to the stop just north of the M50 near Blanch Village. "Clonee Bypass" is now the M3 so that is also well out of date.

I also explained the reason that was likely to happen. The Blanchardstown slip road stop is not on the running board or the timetable for the 109N so any driver going only by that will not serve it, others that either know some people use the stop, do no realise it is not listed for the N route or those who are not sure and go up just in case are serving it.

TBH I think I explained all 3 of those points clearly in the previous post, if all you want is an argument about semantics find someone else to have it with.

The part of all of this that I (as a customer) find inexcusable is that incorrect information is being published on the timetables, namely the 109N timetable pdf.


There is no excuse whatsoever for incorrect information. Customers should not have to guess where the bus stops.


Transport companies need to be crystal clear about where their services operate and stop.

Furp

You are very correct there is no excuse for it, abd it goes for more than just bus Eireann, when you give out incorrect information and or poor directions. You can expect people to complain. The NTA has made some strides to get the correct info out, all I want is a route map for each transport then I know exactly what way to plan my journey.

The transport companies seem to have this assumption that the customers are just supposed to know the routes. If that timetable has been out 4 years how many new people tried to take that bus ?

tara83

lxflyer wrote: »

That very much depends upon where you are travelling. The daily and weekly tickets are zonal based, which means that at the moment some places in those zones are cheaper using online, whilst others are cheaper using LEAP. Also remember that the LEAP products offer unlimited travel for 24 hours or 7 days.

I suspect that the NTA will make moves to change these sort of anomalies over time.

I'm not sure how it's "very user unfriendly" - you just put on the driver's machine?

Tks explains it but as one of the main stops within the zone it explains the poor uptake.

In relation to user friendly comment the driver spent some time trying to find the correct buttons etc and didn't seem pleased that I was using a Leap card.

horseburger

lxflyer wrote: »

The part of all of this that I (as a customer) find inexcusable is that incorrect information is being published on the timetables, namely the 109N timetable pdf.


There is no excuse whatsoever for incorrect information. Customers should not have to guess where the bus stops.


Transport companies need to be crystal clear about where their services operate and stop.

The reference to me nit picking was that I thought, when I first read the reply, from Vic_08 stating:

"This has come up here before, that [slip road] is not a listed stop for the 109N. It is not on the running board and nowhere on the 109 or 109N Timetable is it listed".

I thought that Vic_08 meant that the 109 timetable made no reference to the slip road on the 109 route. I then edited my response to Vic_08 to correct that.

But the issue still remains about uncertainty of whether or not people can get the 109N at that slip road stop, considering, as indicated by malene, it sometimes picks up at that stop and sometimes it doesn't.

LXFlyer

horseburger wrote: »

The reference to me nit picking was that I thought, when I first read the reply, from Vic_08 stating:

"This has come up here before, that [slip road] is not a listed stop for the 109N. It is not on the running board and nowhere on the 109 or 109N Timetable is it listed".

I thought that Vic_08 meant that the 109 timetable made no reference to the slip road on the 109 route. I then edited my response to Vic_08 to correct that.

But the issue still remains about uncertainty of whether or not people can get the 109N at that slip road stop, considering, as indicated by malene, it sometimes picks up at that stop and sometimes it doesn't.

I'm not referring to any discussion between you two - you're just blurring my point.


I'm simply stating that the 109N timetable is incorrect in its list of stopping points, which it clearly is as it is based on the old road layout.


That to me is inexcusable and should never happen.

foggy_lad

tara83 wrote: »

I would think the relatively poor uptake of the Leap card isnt surprising considering it is more expensive for a daily ticket then cash and the online weekly works out €4 cheaper. It's also very user unfriendly in comparison to using it on other methods of transport

For most people travelling between intermediate stops which includes most going to school or shopping or doctors appointments visiting people socialising etc etc they will be charged much more for a leap ticket than paying in cash. The Leap fares on Bus Eirean services appear to be aimed solely at those travelling to/from Dublin city centre for work.

On the other side of the coin though if the bus is not fitted with a working Leap card reader your journey should always be free but there will always be driver(s) who get it wrong and don't allow people with leap cards to travel if there is no card reader on the bus.

Furp wrote: »

You are very correct there is no excuse for it, abd it goes for more than just bus Eireann, when you give out incorrect information and or poor directions. You can expect people to complain. The NTA has made some strides to get the correct info out, all I want is a route map for each transport then I know exactly what way to plan my journey.

The transport companies seem to have this assumption that the customers are just supposed to know the routes. If that timetable has been out 4 years how many new people tried to take that bus ?

The NTA has also got it wrong on many of their route maps because they are using some weird formula for calculating the routes taken by buses. Many Bus Éireann buses are routed out past Heuston Station to get to Palmerstown or Inchicore but the NTA has them doing a U-turn outside the station on Johns Road and returning back towards the Quays and going out Conyingham road and through Islandbridge to get to Palmerstown!
http://journeyplanner.transportforireland.ie/rm/XSLT_TRIP_REQUEST2?language=en
Route 120

Route 004

Route 126


If the National Transport Authority can't get it right despite having been told at least twice of their mistakes at this particular location then what hope for the operators when it comes to telling people where the buses stop?

Furp

No hope I suppose of they can't get the routes correct.

I used my tax save leap card for the first time yesterday they had to give me a new card because it's personalised. All I have to do is is hold the leap card on the reader and it says blue zone pass no input from the driver required.

Of course now I have to use the credit on my other leap card and switch tinusingbthe new one from dublin bus and dart.

horseburger

lxflyer wrote: »

I'm not referring to any discussion between you two - you're just blurring my point.


I'm simply stating that the 109N timetable is incorrect in its list of stopping points, which it clearly is as it is based on the old road layout.


That to me is inexcusable and should never happen.

I am not blurring anything, I agree with you that the 109N stop at Blanchardstown should be listed more clearly on the timetable.

I was highlighting what the nit picking reference was, in the post you quoted that was directed to me, and I just wanted to mention that I edited my earlier post in reply to Vic_08.